PTL (Peach Tree Landing)

[Ghostwheel]

I also think that is what he is referring to. Even if they don't know exactly what happened, or how Heather was killed, I am not sure how the case wouldn't be heinous.

Jumping off of your post. I keep wondering, if it was so heinous, why not the Death Penalty? What is the criteria for the Death Penalty in SC? (I'm not thinking it should or shouldn't be DP, BTW, just wondering about it)

 

[jillycat]

I think they've said publicly that without a body a DP case is much harder. I don't think they want that hurdle to jump.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Jumping off of your post. I keep wondering, if it was so heinous, why not the Death Penalty? What is the criteria for the Death Penalty in SC? (I'm not thinking it should or shouldn't be DP, BTW, just wondering about it)

It is very difficult for a case to get the DP if they don't know how the victim died. The prosecution really needs to describe exactly what the victim went through, to be able to say how the case is worst than thousands of other murders.

There are currently 48 people on Death Row in SC. All men. Most recent was someone sentenced in 2010.

 

[melodyl]

Heather's calls are part of the evidence. I think a Jury will probably care about those phone calls and why so many went unanswered.

Heather didn't leave for PTL until approximately 2-1/2 hrs. after the intitial pay phone call from Sidney. One would think she would have left sooner if he attempted to lure her out at that time. All the unanswered calls go against the "lured to PTL" theory.

IMO

For all we know Sidney could have asked Heather to call him back on the payphone number. Heathers
Call to her friend could have lasted a little longer than she planned and she was late calling back, or she could have called back earlier than what Sidney asked her to. The calls to his cell phone could be because he asked her to call back and since she got no answer at the payphone she called the cell phone. In my opinion Heather was hesitant about calling the cell phone, that's why she made several attempt to call him on the payphone and only after being unable to reach him did she try his cell phone. Also, the calls she made to the cell after arriving at PTL could be because she arrived later than the agreed upon time and Sidney wasn't there when she got there. I just don't see how the number of phone calls negates her being lured out.

moo

 

[Dr. Know?]

And... Not all payphones take incoming calls. It's up to the business owner to decide if a payphone is being used for distribution of drugs or loitering. I guess I can think of 1000 ways this all has transpired. It doesn't hurt to talk about it. jmo

 

[melodyl]

I didn't know about the ability to restrict incoming calls. Good point! I agree with you. I thought this forum was for expressing ideas/opinions without being afraid you're stepping on sometimes toes. This whole thing is about Heather. Any theory, idea,.comment, opinion is equally important if the reason behind posting it has anything to do with finding Heather, or just showing that you're thinking of Heather and her family.

 

[Aynia]

The bolded word brought to mind something said by Police Chief Saundra Rhodes in a news video:

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/24997143/moorers-denied-bond-ahead-of-heather-elvis-murder-trial



A chilling statement, IMO.

" When asked how Elvis died, Richardson said a cause of death has not been determined. “If we had a body, maybe we could determine the matter of death. We don’t know the manner of death and we may never know the manner of death” he said."
http://m.myhorrynews.com/news/article_588cb81e-ae0b-11e3-86e2-0017a43b2370.html

Hope the link works since I'm posting from my mobile.
When I read that about " we may never know the manner of death" I thought maybe LE has a pretty good idea of what happened and based on that they're not very confident about retrieving the body. IMO that goes along with the "heinous " statement.
Again IMO all the events of that night were premeditated by the Moorers, either by one of them or both. The fact that HE got the first call right after arriving home from her date, coupled with the fact that she was off work the next couple days,probably giving more time until people realize she was missing,makes me think premeditation.
Since the beginning of this case, seeing all of TM posts on social media, I had the feeling this case would turn out to be something that will one day become a lifetime movie. We know so little about what LE knows, I can't really find an explanation as to why they think that whatever happened happened at PTL, it was such a short time frame, but I really believe they know much more than what they said to the media /public at the bond hearing and that may be the reason for the gag order. Trying to prevent leaks of that information that could lead to wild speculation and / or probably public outrage.
Again just my humble opinion and sorry for my English.

 

[jillycat]

For all we know Sidney could have asked Heather to call him back on the payphone number. Heathers
Call to her friend could have lasted a little longer than she planned and she was late calling back, or she could have called back earlier than what Sidney asked her to. The calls to his cell phone could be because he asked her to call back and since she got no answer at the payphone she called the cell phone. In my opinion Heather was hesitant about calling the cell phone, that's why she made several attempt to call him on the payphone and only after being unable to reach him did she try his cell phone. Also, the calls she made to the cell after arriving at PTL could be because she arrived later than the agreed upon time and Sidney wasn't there when she got there. I just don't see how the number of phone calls negates her being lured out.

moo

I don't think the number of calls negates anything either. We're not privy to what was said in the calls, other than what Heather reported to BW about SM's claim that he was leaving TM and wanted to be with Heather. And we know it appears she left for PTL quickly after the second conversation when she called his cell. But we don't even know if it was SM on the other end of the phone. So we don't know what motivated Heather that morning.

I've always thought she was lured. How that went down, I don't know. But it seems to me that it started with a claim from a pay phone close to her condo about the time she arrived home from a date.

 

[Madeleine74]

Manner of death would be one of the following five:

• Natural
• Accident
• Homicide
• Suicide
• Undetermined

According to Horry County Solicitors, Heather's death was a homicide.

Cause of death may never be known. A partial list of causes would include such things as:

• Gun shot
• Stabbing
• Strangulation/Asphyxiation
• Blunt Force Trauma

http://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/cause-mechanism-and-manner-of-death

 

[melodyl]

I don't think the number of calls negates anything either. We're not privy to what was said in the calls, other than what Heather reported to BW about SM's claim that he was leaving TM and wanted to be with Heather. And we know it appears she left for PTL quickly after the second conversation when she called his cell. But we don't even know if it was SM on the other end of the phone. So we don't know what motivated Heather that morning.

I've always thought she was lured. How that went down, I don't know. But it seems to me that it started with a claim from a pay phone close to her condo about the time she arrived home from a date.

Agreed. That call was made for a reason. Presumably out of the blue after having no contact with Sidney since the end of October. I'm sure her phone records show when communication between them stopped and even if Sidney used payphones, I'm sure the police have checked out every phone number on Heathers phone records. Didn't the prosecution say the affair ended in late October? I can't remember and I'm going to have to go back and read up on that. Anyway Heather ending up deceased after that last payphone call initiated by Sidney and meeting up with the Moorers at PTL. That and the harassment and crazy behavior by Tammy, the statements made by the police and the prosecutor, and the grand jury indictment stating murdered with malice aforethought is what I'm basing my opinion of premeditation on.

 

[ISWMLE]

This week I'm so confused. My scenarios are changing. Now I have SM leaving his home after his date with his wife while TM is fast asleep drunk and making that payphone call to Heather, trying to lure her out. She doesn't take the bait but then has some regrets and tries his cell after failed attempts trying to reach him at the payphone. She meets up with him at PTL and he does this whole kidnapping and murder singularly and TM has no clue.

I think someone here may have posed this scenario. Thinking SM could not take his wife's obsession with Heather anymore and him having made this mistake of having an affair and wanting his life back.

Just my mind going crazy. Go ahead take your shots. I'd be grateful for any feedback good or bad. Thanks

 

[Ghostwheel]

This week I'm so confused. My scenarios are changing. Now I have SM leaving his home after his date with his wife while TM is fast asleep drunk and making that payphone call to Heather, trying to lure her out. She doesn't take the bait but then has some regrets and tries his cell after failed attempts trying to reach him at the payphone. She meets up with him at PTL and he does this whole kidnapping and murder singularly and TM has no clue.

I think someone here may have posed this scenario. Thinking SM could not take his wife's obsession with Heather anymore and him having made this mistake of having an affair and wanting his life back.

Just my mind going crazy. Go ahead take your shots. I'd be grateful for any feedback good or bad. Thanks

It's a fine alternate scenario to think aboout. (I have one that goes the opposite way, where SM took an opportunity to talk to Heather at the payphone, TM wakes up and find SM missing and goes to PTL alone, but that's another crazy theory)

According to the bond hearing, the affair prompted TM to allegedly go to work with her husband, monitor all cell phone activity and handcuff him at night, but it could still happen if TM were passed out drunk, as you indicated. However, the phone was at the M house when Heather called at 3:16 and 3:17 (If I remember correctly), so SM was either no longer at the payphone, or TM or someone else in the house had to have answered the phone. If he was at home, I would think he'd make sure to tell Heather not to call his cell phone or make sure the phone got answered the first time, so as not to wake sleeping TM. I, personally, don't see SM as the "Do it by himself" kind of guy, but I've been wrong before.

 

[Hatfield]

This week I'm so confused. My scenarios are changing. Now I have SM leaving his home after his date with his wife while TM is fast asleep drunk and making that payphone call to Heather, trying to lure her out. She doesn't take the bait but then has some regrets and tries his cell after failed attempts trying to reach him at the payphone. She meets up with him at PTL and he does this whole kidnapping and murder singularly and TM has no clue.

I think someone here may have posed this scenario. Thinking SM could not take his wife's obsession with Heather anymore and him having made this mistake of having an affair and wanting his life back.

Just my mind going crazy. Go ahead take your shots. I'd be grateful for any feedback good or bad. Thanks

Its a good theory. Some things that help support it.
-TM goes on public rants with no fear
-TM says SM has been going crazy
-SM was the one that seemd to be getting very paranoid making those 2 phone calls to LE about people with guns after him
-Nobody hardly knows SM or what he is really capable of.

 

[passionflower]

Early in the case IIRC, Mr. Elvis said after 20 minutes at PTL, LE KNEW that Heather did not leave willingly. Later LE said she was murdered at PTL. What did they discover there to come to both conclusions? Anyone remember???

 

[TTF14]

Early in the case IIRC, Mr. Elvis said after 20 minutes at PTL, LE KNEW that Heather did not leave willingly. Later LE said she was murdered at PTL. What did they discover there to come to both conclusions? Anyone remember???

No, because they haven't said.

 

[rob]

This was posted in another thread a while back. A WSer who was at the vigil said the vigil was held with candles and crosses marking the spot where Heather's car was found. Here is an aerial view of PTL and they marked an arrow at the approximate location, which is right about where you presumed it would be in your photo above.

I like this picture! I went to MB last week and got my husband to take me to the boat landing and drive by their home. (he had a cow about it) But you see how close those mobile homes are, and there is a house there too, on the left side, facing the water. Access from a different street, but I could throw a rock and hit any one of them from the boat landing (52 yr old female, not a good throwing arm). Made me and him both think the car was just dumped there and nothing happened, cause a scream, yell or gunshot, really even a couple of people arguing, could be heard, especially early morning hours.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Early in the case IIRC, Mr. Elvis said after 20 minutes at PTL, LE KNEW that Heather did not leave willingly. Later LE said she was murdered at PTL. What did they discover there to come to both conclusions? Anyone remember???

No, because they haven't said.

And therein lies the problem for those of us who are sitting here going "In 3-5 minutes TM and/or SM can grab Heather, who has either already locked her car and has her phone and purse with her OR TM/SM grabbed Heather AND her purse and phone out of the car in that same 3-5 minutes, no sound is made, or not enough to wake anyone or no one is in those trailers on that particular night and there is still enough evidence left several days later that shows Heather didn't leave willingly. What the heck is that evidence?"

 

[Mahouston69]

Early in the case IIRC, Mr. Elvis said after 20 minutes at PTL, LE KNEW that Heather did not leave willingly. Later LE said she was murdered at PTL. What did they discover there to come to both conclusions? Anyone remember???

It's possible TE came to that conclusion based on the condition of the car, like half or uneaten food, maybe just since her license remained in the car and maybe her work badge, clothes etc and any number of other things she wouldn't leave like that. For them to say they believe she was kidnapped and murdered there ...I would have to say that is probably only based on video of her going there, driving, and none of her seen leaving or sitting, upright in any vehicle as a passenger. Which they have not released.

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[Mahouston69]

I like this picture! I went to MB last week and got my husband to take me to the boat landing and drive by their home. (he had a cow about it) But you see how close those mobile homes are, and there is a house there too, on the left side, facing the water. Access from a different street, but I could throw a rock and hit any one of them from the boat landing (52 yr old female, not a good throwing arm). Made me and him both think the car was just dumped there and nothing happened, cause a scream, yell or gunshot, really even a couple of people arguing, could be heard, especially early morning hours.

And it was a full bright moon

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[TedMac]

And therein lies the problem for those of us who are sitting here going "In 3-5 minutes TM and/or SM can grab Heather, who has either already locked her car and has her phone and purse with her OR TM/SM grabbed Heather AND her purse and phone out of the car in that same 3-5 minutes, no sound is made, or not enough to wake anyone or no one is in those trailers on that particular night and there is still enough evidence left several days later that shows Heather didn't leave willingly. What the heck is that evidence?"

BBM There has been a lot of discussion about what Terry saw or learned in the "20 minutes", but no one knows for sure. As far as I know, a crime scene was never set up there with the yellow tape, etc. I know they did a dive in the area and said it was a training exercise, but I always felt they were searching for her keys or cell phone.

I have thought if there was really physical evidence at the scene that prompted his remark, it is the best kept secret in this entire case. I can't help but think that Terry, tried to call Heather several times while he and the officer were @ PTL. I feel certain he either got no answer or it went straight to voice mail. I believe that he next called the room mate to ask if she had seen her. I don't know if he knew she was in FL or not. The room mate probably learned from Terry that Heather was missing and at that point provided him all the information on SM and probably TM as well. She may have also told him that Heather was going to meet SM at PTL (assuming she knew). Remember they had just talked that evening after Heather ended her date with SS. If that is the case, he probably learned from that conversation exactly what Heather was mixed up in and probably was taken by force. He also figured that Heather would not have left her car there for an extended period of time.

As far as the 3-5 minutes at the PTL when Heather was taken, she could have been rendered unconscious with one blow, struck by their vehicle, stabbed or shot with a small caliber gun such as a .22 caliber. She could have been subdued in any of those ways with very little noise. It was 3:30-3:40 am and probably all of the trailer court residents were asleep. A .22 caliber gun makes very little sound.

I have always felt that whatever was premeditated and done to Heather was done quickly and probably before she had much, if any chance to react.

All of the above is my opinion and I am the first to admit I could be wrong.