Question about Terry Hobbs

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If Jessie is 'retarded', then why wouldn't he qualify for disability social security instead of having to go get a job and not have electricity?

If he were tested back in 1992 to 1994 wouldn't he have been given an adult version of the test in 2008 when Derning tested him?

I did notice on the appeal from 1996 that the original doctor was not qualified to even do the testing from the opinion:

*it's towards the bottom of the page
https://courts.arkansas.gov/opinions/1996/cr94-848.html

The appellant also presented the testimony of a psychologist, Dr. William Wilkins, for the purpose of showing that his confession was the product of coercion. Dr. Wilkins offered his opinion that the appellant was "quite suggestible." The doctor had administered a suggestibility test to the appellant based upon the Gudjonsson suggestibility scale. The court held a hearing on the admissibility of the test results. Dr. Wilkins admitted he had never administered the test before. The state called another psychologist, Dr. Vaughn Rickert, to testify that he had never heard of the test and, based on what he had just been informed, he had serious concerns about its validity. The court refused to allow evidence of the test results, citing its unreliability and Dr. Wilkins' lack of experience in administering it.


There was even testimony about his qualifications here in this document and they allowed him to testify anyway. He was a defense witness:

*at top of the page

http://www.callahan.8k.com/wm3/wwilkins2.html

The Court is of the opinion that the test regarding suggestibility is flawed in that it does not meet a scientific standard upon which the profession generally relies. Secondly, that Doctor Wilkins’ absence of experience, training and education in the utilization of the test would fatally flaw any results that he might conclude from such test. I will, however, allow Doctor Wilkins to continue his testimony;
 
Do some research. There are many "brands" of IQ tests and few list 90 as a cut off for "normal". Jessie's IQ was not in the mental retardation range. Realize that many people that you interact with on a daily basis have IQs in the 80s. This is not "retarded" and neither is an IQ in the 70s. Here is a list of some:

Manager Food Dept, Mechanic, Register Sales, Account Exec. Administrative Asst. Manager, Store Clerk, Accounting Collector, Bad Debt Operator, Computer Rep., Cust. Srvc. Sales Rep., Insurance Technician, Automotive Salesman, Clerk, Typist, Dispatcher Office, Receptionist, Cashier,
Clerical, General Inside Sales Clerk, Meter Reader, Printer, Teller, Quality Control Chkr. Claims Clerk, Driver, Deliveryman, Guard, Security Labor, Unskilled Maintenance Operator, Machine Arc Welder, Medical-Dental Asst., Messenger, Production Factory Assembler, Food Service Worker, Nurse's Aide
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/g-jobsfigure1.pdf

Not only that, but these tests are changed on a regular basis. Also, the tests are different for children as compared to an adult version of the test.
 
IQ is only ONE factor of many that determines suggestibility. Gudjonsson (1990) asserts that the five most psychologically relevant factors when addressing the legal issues of suggestibility are: intellectual skills, education, compliance, the ability to cope with pressure, and acquiescence.

Gudjonsson, G. H. (1990). The relationship of intellectual skills to suggestibility, compliance and acquiescence. Personality and Individual Differences, 11, 227- 231.

Exactly.I don't understand what your argument is.On one hand you argue that Jessie is not mentally retarded on the other you clearly state that one does not have to be mentally retarded to be suggestible.
 
If Jessie is 'retarded', then why wouldn't he qualify for disability social security instead of having to go get a job and not have electricity?

Because the terms of his release say he has to be in employment or in education. Do you want me to go look up other convicted felons with low IQs and the same release conditions?

Btw, Jessie has had electricity for a while now.

Furthermore, who cares what his IQ is anyway? It doesn't follow that if you raise his IQ by a few points his confession will magically come true...

I have yet to see why 88 is apparently too high an IQ to make a false confession. First of all, 88 is still not that bright. Secondly, the lowest IQ among the Central Park Five, (all of whom confessed), was 87 - and he had his father with him while he was being interviewed by police.
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Because the terms of his release say he has to be in employment or in education. Do you want me to go look up other convicted felons with low IQs and the same release conditions?

Btw, Jessie has had electricity for a while now.

Furthermore, who cares what his IQ is anyway? It doesn't follow that if you raise his IQ by a few points his confession will magically come true...
By the same token, it doesn't follow that if you lower his IQ by a few points his confessions will magically become false. IQ only becomes a point of debate when supporters throw out their claims that he has the mind of a very young child. He may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he doesn't have the mind of a 5 year old.
 
By the same token, it doesn't follow that if you lower his IQ by a few points his confessions will magically become false. IQ only becomes a point of debate when supporters throw out their claims that he has the mind of a very young child. He may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he doesn't have the mind of a 5 year old.

Jessie's confessions are false because they don't describe the crime scene, or the crime itself. They are just a mish mash of all the rumours that were spinning around West Memphis in the aftermath of the murders.

I don't give a stuff what his IQ his, he clearly doesn't have a clue what happened up in Robin Hood Hills on the night of May 5th.

If he did, he would have been able to tell the police what happened to the boys missing clothes, and he certainly would have offered that carrot to prosecutors after his conviction, when he was trying to get his sentence cut. But it doesn't enter Jessie's head to offer that, its almost like he didn't even know that clothes were missing....
 
Jessie's confessions are false because they don't describe the crime scene, or the crime itself. They are just a mish mash of all the rumours that were spinning around West Memphis in the aftermath of the murders.

I don't give a stuff what his IQ his, he clearly doesn't have a clue what happened up in Robin Hood Hills on the night of May 5th.

If he did, he would have been able to tell the police what happened to the boys missing clothes, and he certainly would have offered that carrot to prosecutors after his conviction, when he was trying to get his sentence cut. But it doesn't enter Jessie's head to offer that, its almost like he didn't even know that clothes were missing....

He doesn't know what happened to the missing articles of clothing because he was very disturbed by what he witnessed and took part in and did not pay attention to what Jason and Damian did with them. He left. His confessions do match what happened. Maybe not exactly what you or me or the police think happened, but I have found no reason to dismiss them. It is common to get things confused after an extremely traumatic event. (My child was born prematurely, very suddenly, very unexpectedly, and we both almost died. Years later, my husband and I still argue about exactly what happened and what was said during the 15 minutes it took for the ambulance to get to our house. We were both totally full of adrenaline, scared to death, and appalled at what was happening. Just because he says that I was in the living room when the paramedics arrived and I say that I was in the kitchen doesn't mean that we both weren't actually there or that it didn't happen.) The basis of his confession was true. Misinterpreting things or remembering things a little bit differently doesn't mean that those things didn't happen. Why would anyone would make up such a horrible story? That's why his supposed retardation is so important to most supporters. No one would make up the details that he included in his confessions.
 
Just a comment....
Any suggestibility on Jessie's part could as easily apply to him being roped, by Damien and Jason, into helping commit the murders.

Since this thread is supposed to be about Terry, I wonder why some supporters are still trying to cover for Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley if they are so firmly convinced Terry did it. What does it matter about false confessions now or alibis or anything to do with the WM3 if you think Hobbs did it?

Looking to Terry is, IMO, a sign of desperation. Supporters HAVE TO find the real killer or else it looks like the WM3 are indeed guilty. Guess what? They all said they were guilty.
 
No,we have to find the real killer or there is no justice for 3 little boys.

We are discussing Jessie's ridiculous "confession" again because there are people who actually think any of that could be factual.
how come Terry Hobbs and Mark Byers and the 40 plus people that according to Hobs were looking for the boys in the Robin Hood Hills at that time don't corroborate Jessie's story since they must have witnessed it?
 
J

Since this thread is supposed to be about Terry, I wonder why some supporters are still trying to cover for Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley if they are so firmly convinced Terry did it. What does it matter about false confessions now or alibis or anything to do with the WM3 if you think Hobbs did it?

Looking to Terry is, IMO, a sign of desperation. Supporters HAVE TO find the real killer or else it looks like the WM3 are indeed guilty. Guess what? They all said they were guilty.

Yes, they said they were guilty. Wouldn't you? If it meant the difference between life and a needle in your arm? Damian was on DEATH row!!! I would say I was guilty of anything if it meant I wouldn't have to die by chemicals for something I didn't really do! It rattles my brain every time I hear a non say they would never admit guilt in something they didn't do. Really? Seriously? Even if you admitting guilt let you become free from imprisonment? Let you go back to your family? Let you live a semi-normal life? Even then, when your life is on the line, you wouldn't admit guilt, even though you were innocent?
 
The problem is: according to Scott Ellington, Judge Laser most likely would have ordered a new trial. The WM3 were 4 mos. away from that. It is silly to argue, you haven't, some have, that the WM3 wouldn't want to take their chances with the Arkansas courts again after what happened to them, and yet, here's a new judge willing to order a new trial, a prosecutor that thinks they could be acquitted, and the WM3 can't wait? Obviously changes had occurred in Arkansas for the better if you're a supporter. Damien was in no danger of the death penalty being imposed until after all the court proceedings were done.

So no, if I was in their shoes, I would indeed be willing to risk waiting up to two years longer to totally exonerate myself. Not being labeled a convicted felon and child murderer would mean a great deal to me, a lot to my family, and my supporters if I had them. There are always going to be naysayers, but I could hold my head up, and be proud I stuck to my principles.

For someone who claimed he was dying in there literally, darn Damien made a speedy recovery, didn't he?
 
The problem is: according to Scott Ellington, Judge Laser most likely would have ordered a new trial. The WM3 were 4 mos. away from that. It is silly to argue, you haven't, some have, that the WM3 wouldn't want to take their chances with the Arkansas courts again after what happened to them, and yet, here's a new judge willing to order a new trial, a prosecutor that thinks they could be acquitted, and the WM3 can't wait? Obviously changes had occurred in Arkansas for the better if you're a supporter. Damien was in no danger of the death penalty being imposed until after all the court proceedings were done.

So no, if I was in their shoes, I would indeed be willing to risk waiting up to two years longer to totally exonerate myself. Not being labeled a convicted felon and child murderer would mean a great deal to me, a lot to my family, and my supporters if I had them. There are always going to be naysayers, but I could hold my head up, and be proud I stuck to my principles.

For someone who claimed he was dying in there literally, darn Damien made a speedy recovery, didn't he?

Unless you've been in their shoes, you have no idea what you would do.
 
4 months after 18 years to prove their innocence doesn't seem like alot to me .
If it does to anyone else then that is their right but to me those 4 months were worth the wait .
 
4 months after 18 years to prove their innocence doesn't seem like alot to me .
If it does to anyone else then that is their right but to me those 4 months were worth the wait .

Except it wasn't four months to prove their innocence - it was four months till the evidentiary hearing. If that had gone their way, it could still have been several years for a retrial(s). If that, (or those), had gone their way, it would have been not guilty - which, as I'm sure nons everywhere would have been only too quick to point out, is not proof of innocence.

Either way, they would always have had to deal with the fact that there will be people who think they did it, this way they just get out of jail quicker. I think I would have taken the deal too in their shoes, especially if I was facing the death penalty.

The person whose motives I really don't understand is the prosecutor. He wasn't sitting jail, so I don't see why he couldn't wait four months before doing a deal.
 
Unless you've been in their shoes, you have no idea what you would do.

I value principles. If I was innocent of said crime, not in a million years would I ever plead guilty to having murdered 3 CHILDREN so I could use a get out of jail card. No, I would want my name completely cleared. I would have seen it through the evidentiary hearing.

I would have put faith in my attorneys, my supporters, all those who believed in my innocence.
It would be tough to do, but after all I'd sacrificed, what's a few more months or even two years if I believed I could gain total exoneration?

I would have recognized that times in Arkansas had changed, the people currently in the judicial system were different, and that also would have been a reason to take it to the evidentiary hearing.
 
By the same token, it doesn't follow that if you lower his IQ by a few points his confessions will magically become false. IQ only becomes a point of debate when supporters throw out their claims that he has the mind of a very young child. He may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he doesn't have the mind of a 5 year old.

Thank You! Jessie is not retarded, he's just slow
 
Not to mention they could have sued the heck out of Arkansas......

I would rather risk having a new trial, be found totally innocent, not have 1st degree murder on my record, not be branded forever as a child killer, and get to sue the heck out of Arkansas.
 
As convicted felons they cannot even vote. I am also assuming that it will difficult to also get a job, a loan, rent. etc.

I guess Echols can go back on his disability social security, doubt that Misskelley will qualify for that though. Baldwin won't be able to become an attorney as he thinks he will because of his felony convictions.
 

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