Ramzan Daraev 35 Shot while surveying power lines / claimed intruder

[Cryptic]

This incident seems rushed, very rushed, given that the shooter is a senior Army officer:

911 calls released in Fort Liberty soldier's fatal shooting of a utility worker in Carthage

"My husband's just yelling to me to 'Call the police, call the police." Less than a half hour later, worker Ramzan Daraev would be dead.

www.fayobserver.com

- Special Forces Colonel notes two strangers either on his property, or perhaps adjacent to it.
- Wife claims the two men were taking pictures of the property and.... their children.
- Colonel confronts the two men, shoots and kills one.
- Men turn out to be Chechens and thus raise concerns of terrorism- or were they stereotyped?

And now, a possible "ooops" of the major kind:

- The two men have been confirmed to be working for a utilities company and assigned to survey lines in the area.
- The last photos taken were not of children, but of..... power line numbers.
- Utility companies often have easements to enter property to survey, maintain power lines etc.

And... some added complications;

- Men were not wearing power company uniforms, but caller seems vague. States they "dont belong", but does not describe how they were being "aggressive".
- Needless to say, using deadly force based on what somebody "might" be doing / "might be" can get uhmm "problematic".

 

[GRT]

Interesting.

The "surveyors" sound fishy to me. The article says this:

"The first call to 911 that Friday evening was made at 8:12 p.m. just as the sun was setting on the small community about 50 minutes northwest Fort Liberty, home to the U.S. Army's special operations forces."

Now, maybe they were on the utility company's payroll (great cover), but the sun was setting, and surveyors typically aren't out working that late. And why didn't the utility company notify the residents that they would have workers out?

More is sure to come out about this story and I'm looking forward to hearing it.

 

[Cryptic]

Interesting.

Now, maybe they were on the utility company's payroll (great cover), but the sun was setting, and surveyors typically aren't out working that late. And why didn't the utility company notify the residents that they would have workers out?

It was evidently still light enough to take photos of power line numbers (company has provided photo(s) of line numbers taken five minutes before the death of RD).

As for entering property with out notification..... Our electric / fiber optic company said they always try to give notification. But.... if they cant get in touch and the area is easily accessible, they still use their legal easement as they need to get their work done for network strength etc.

Another factor could be where the two men were when they were confronted. If they were either not on the property directly, deadly force based on what they "might be" is going to be harder to justify.

All in all, it just seems surprising that a senior officer is involved in this.

 

[GRT]

It was evidently still light enough to take photos of power line numbers (company has provided photo(s) of line numbers taken five minutes before the death of RD).

As for entering property with out notification..... Our electric / fiber optic company said they always try to give notification. But.... if they cant get in touch and the area is easily accessible, they still use their legal easement as they need to get their work done for network strength etc.

Another factor could be where the two men were when they were confronted. If they were either not on the property directly, deadly force based on what they "might be" is going to be harder to justify.

All in all, it just seems surprising that a senior officer is involved in this.

It is surprising.

Here's a bit more from a CBS source:

"When deputies arrives, they said they located Daraev nearly 250 yards from the roadway, along a powerline on the residential property. According to the news release, Daraev did not have any utility equipment, utility clothing or identification during the time of the shooting.

The sheriff’s office reports a second person, Adsalam Dzhankutov, was located in the area the night of the shooting. Using a translator, the sheriff’s office says Dzhankutov told investigators he and Daraev were independently conducting utility work in the Carthage area for Utilities One.

CBS 17 has reached out to Utilities One for information regarding Daraev. We are still waiting to hear back."

If they were legit, it's odd that they were only taking photos, not doing any actual surveying.

I agree that a utility company will enter property if they've tried in vain to contact the residents, and that may be what happened.

I still think it was odd that the guys were out there at dusk taking photos. And, why was her husband yelling? Why didn't the workers leave?

Something feels off...

JMOO

 

[Cryptic]

If they were legit, it's odd that they were only taking photos, not doing any actual surveying.

I agree that a utility company will enter property if they've tried in vain to contact the residents, and that may be what happened.

I still think it was odd that the guys were out there at dusk taking photos. And, why was her husband yelling? Why didn't the workers leave?

Something feels off...

JMOO

There is a distinct possibility that the men were sub contractors- and possibly sub contractors of subcontractors (thus no uniforms). Being a subcontractor, however, may still enable them to use the easement under a "utility company or agents" idea. A certain amount of work line and cable work in my area is / was done by sub contractors.

As for taking photos of the lines......

My guess is that the assignment could have been to photo numbers / components to get an idea of the capacity of the lines. Lines can be built by one company that later went out of business- then sold several times with varying modifications added, or taken down, then say, currently leased by another company.

As for leaving..... there is a chance that they might not have been given much of a chance to leave before he opened fire. I cant see a Colonel doing something rash, but.... then again, "humans will human".

I agree that something seems off, but..... My "offness" vibes are radiating from the shooters story and that call. Though I would like to give a Colonel the benefit of the doubt, I cant support a "By my unquestionable word alone...." explanation given the circumstances.

For starters, I would want to know:

- Were they on an obvious stretch of powerlines? The more established the lines, the more a Colonel- selected for maturity and sound judgement, should be aware of the possibility of easements and workers doing maintenance etc.

- If, well, no pictures of children, nor of his house are actually on the camera..... How close were they to the house to allow somebody to reasonably form a mistaken conclusion? Is the lot heavily wooded etc?

 

[AmandaSkis]

This case has lots of weirdness and hinkiness. The story about the second man being found. I would like more information there. For example, was he found immediately or later? And it might still have been light outside at 8 PM, but I do not know any people working for a utility company who are going to work that late, especially when they were taking pictures. Why would you not want pictures from during the day with full light?

<modsnip - not victim friendly> And why would the utility company not be able to confirm that these guys were working for them?

 

[Cryptic]

This case has lots of weirdness and hinkiness. The story about the second man being found. I would like more information there. For example, was he found immediately or later? And it might still have been light outside at 8 PM, but I do not know any people working for a utility company who are going to work that late, especially when they were taking pictures. Why would you not want pictures from during the day with full light?
<modsnip - not victim friendly>. And why would the utility company not be able to confirm that these guys were working for them?

They were confirmed by their employer to be employees with an assignment to photo power lines. And, the deceased individual was found along the power lines.

I can also fully agree with you- Well paid, full benefit Primary utility company workers simply dont work late- unless its an emergency. Then, they are heavily compensated with copious over time. Taking photos of lines would not be an emergency.

But... sub contractors and sub sub contractors doing certain prep work on behalf on a primary utility company could well be a very different story when it comes to working late sans the company needing to pay mega overtime pay.

In the end, I think the circumstances are slightly unusual, but fall far short of the level needed to accept the Colonel's word alone that deadly force was needed.

 

[AmandaSkis]

They were confirmed by their employer to be employees with an assignment to photo power lines. And, the deceased individual was found along the power lines.

I can also fully agree with you- Well paid, full benefit Primary utility company workers simply dont work late- unless its an emergency. Then, they are heavily compensated with copious over time. Taking photos of lines would not be an emergency.

But... sub contractors and sub sub contractors doing certain prep work on behalf on a primary utility company could well be a very different story when it comes to working late sans the company needing to pay mega overtime pay.

In the end, I think the circumstances are slightly unusual, but fall far short of the level needed to accept the Colonel's word alone that deadly force was needed.

Thank you for sharing that information. The last I had read, the utility company had not confirmed that the men were working for them. I did find an article that confirmed this.

I also read that the man was shot in the hand, the face, and then twice in the back. I do not know if North Carolina has “stand your ground” but it might be hard to explain gunshots to the back.

 

[Cryptic]

I also read that the man was shot in the hand, the face, and then twice in the back. I do not know if North Carolina has “stand your ground” but it might be hard to explain gunshots to the back.

Twice in the back? And, the deceased also being unarmed?

I am sure that North Carolina has a variant of SYG, but as you stated, somethings are just plain hard to explain away.

Going very subjective, I don't like the shot to the face. Some sources say that the officer is part of a very elite unit- even by Special Forces standards. Though trained marksmanship and "center mass" training can deteriorate under stress even with ultra elite soldiers, shooting to the face can also show personal animosity.

Given the totality of: No apparent photos of house nor children on camera, verified to be working for Utility services company, and..... your information of two shots to the back, my support for the officer is dwindling fast.

 

[LadyL]

did he say they threatened his family or produced a weapon? why would he not just wait for the police?
people are way too gun happy in this culture

 

[Cryptic]

did he say they threatened his family or produced a weapon? why would he not just wait for the police?
people are way too gun happy in this culture

No weapon of any kind.

In her call to the police, the officer's wife stated that the deceased was acting "aggressively"- though she did not describe what she meant by that.

I agree in regards to the ease of waiting for the police. Likewise, I am dreading the possibility that forensics will reveal that the he was shielding his face (deceased had a confirmed gun shot wound to the face) when shot to the hand.

Subtract the shooter's well earned accomplishment as a Colonel in an elite military unit and one seems to be left with: Human executes another human based on what he "might" be.

 

[Kip]

As others have said, something seems off about these events (or the reporting of it). Around here, people pose as utility workers to case houses. So I'm suspicious in these sorts of situations. I ask to see ID. If they can't produce it, I call the police. What I don't understand is even if the homeowner thought the guys were taking pictures of his house (not illegal, not where I live anyway) or his children, why he didn't just get his children into the house and call the police.

 

[Cryptic]

I have two questions about the underlined -- first, what sort of altercation ensued that could have led to the shooting?

This question is probably never going to be answered definitively.

At the end of the day, and objective answer is going to get fuzzy as the deceased cannot give his version of events and statements from the shooter and possible witness (wife) are self serving given the possibility of criminal charges.

The inherent self serving nature of statements given under those circumstances remains the same whether the person under investigation is a Special Forces Colonel or a building custodian.

 

[Cryptic]

More complications:

When a North Carolina colonel shot this utility worker, journalists suggested his victim was a spy

Ramzan Daraev fled the Russian government seeking freedom in America. When an Army colonel shot him during an altercation, Fox News spun a tale implying that Daraev was a Russian spy.

reason.com

In a call to police, the shooter's wife stated that the deceased was "on the property line" (not say, trespassing deep into the property).

This facet adds to the totality of lethal force as the result of a chain of "might bes". Too many "might bes" will break the back of any justification. What is equally shocking is that the person going into over kill on the vague "might bes" is not a security guard "wanna'be" on.... "over watch", but a highly trained senior military officer.

- Might be trespassing (but apparently was not)
- Might be taking photos of house and children (but apparently was not)
- Might be a terrorist (but apparently was not)

The "might bes" then culminate with the deceased being shot in the face and in the back. Something is not right....

 

[GRT]

Thanks for the update.

I think there's a lot more to this story than we're hearing--more than we'll likely ever find out.

Most folks won't shoot a trespasser--especially after having their wife call the police. They might hold them at gunpoint, but why did he shoot? What did he think he was protecting? His family? Or, something else that was out there that the average Joe isn't supposed to know about?

Reason says the surveyor's partner was found nearby. Other reports say he was found later in town.

I really want to know how an "altercation" started and what it was over.

I also want to know why the men were there at dusk.

Lastly, I want to know why the MSM doesn't seem to be covering this story.

 

[deadfoot13]

My father worked as a Field Planner for 40 years -- his job was to survey the land and develop a plan for placement of utility poles when the company was running a powerline. He didn't wear a uniform or clothing with a logo -- always a button-up shirt tucked into a pair of chinos or dark jeans and a pair of sturdy loafers on his feet. The logo was on the door of his truck and he had paperwork to show why they were at a place working. I just called him to tell him about this and ask some questions.

Utility companies have an easement that permit them to be on a person's property, although my father said he usually made an attempt to knock at a person's door to explain why they were there. He liked to discuss pole placement with homeowners and get their input, if possible, but the utility company didn't call ahead to get permission to be there.

He has countless stories about the property owners who took issue with the utility company being on their land -- everything from having dogs set on him to verbal threats. One homeowner decided to relocate their bee hives next to where the utility company was working and on another occasion a woman hid a snake in the cab of his truck.

I asked my dad if he ever worked until 8:00 or 9:00 at night, and he said not unless there was an emergency (and then it was typically helping out by walking lines to see where they were down instead of working on planning a new line, and then they would be working around the clock, usually during severe storms and winter weather.) With that said, if the power company sub-contracts that work, the sub-contractors would have their own rules and practices for work hours, so it's possible these two men were out there for legitimate reasons (but you're losing daylight at that time.)

His opinion? He thinks if these guys were legit they would have had a work order to show what they were doing there, along with a contact at the actual power company who could verify the information.

MOO.

 

[Cryptic]

His opinion? He thinks if these guys were legit they would have had a work order to show what they were doing there, along with a contact at the actual power company who could verify the information.

Thanks for the good information. I doubt the beehive booby traps slowed down your father. I used to walk right past my neighbor's hives every day. If I left them alone, they left me alone, even if I was just feet away and using power tools.

Busy bees aside, the sub contractor confirmed that they were on an assignment doing prep work for line upgrades and is cooperating with the police. Though the connection from sub contractor to the primary power company has not been made public, there is nothing to suggest that it does not exist.

 

[sunflowermomma]

If the utility company these men were employees and were on an assignment, what is hinky or nefarious about that? The company has confirmed that the are who they say they are, and they were there for legitimate reasons. I don't really understand the speculation after that has been confirmed that they shouldn't have been there at that time.

 

[asmi106082]

If the utility company these men were employees and were on an assignment, what is hinky or nefarious about that? The company has confirmed that the are who they say they are, and they were there for legitimate reasons. I don't really understand the speculation after that has been confirmed that they shouldn't have been there at that time.

MOO the homeowner didn’t know that at the time of the shooting.

 

[sunflowermomma]

MOO the homeowner didn’t know that at the time of the shooting.

I agree with this, I'm just curious what other theories may be for those that are still questioning why they were there