Ransom note analysis

[Tadpole12]

CircuitGuy,

Locating the body in JonBenet's bedroom means, with no intruder forensic evidence that the three remaining R's are prime suspects, facing immediate arrest.

Authoring a ransom note implies an intruder, i.e. the latter is said evidence, but the kidnapping fails and JonBenet is killed, with the intruder dumping her in the basement, thus explaining why she was not found in her bedroom, so the R's constructed their version of events around this scenario?

One qualification to the above scenario, which only varies in its detail, is that JonBenet was hidden elsewhere in the basement, and moved to the wine-cellar mid-morning by JR, so explaining Fleet White's not seeing JonBenet when he looked in that morning.

The case is definitely RDI, we can eliminate both JR and PR, minimally in the manner of the Grand Jury, leaving BDI.


.

JonBenet was hidden elsewhere in the basement - UKGuy

UKGuy, Where would the crawlspace be accessible?

 

[Tadpole12]

I really don't think the long term effects of their decision even entered their minds. I think in a situation like that where one of your daughter appears to be dead and your son appears to be the culprit, a mother's instinct would be to protect the surviving child. Humans have certain instincts that are wired in to them that they are not even aware of. When that moment of tragedy hits, a person can go in to autopilot, following that instinct to protect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heyya andreww,

I really don't think the long term effects of their decision even entered their minds.-andreww

Ugh.
The repercussions and the burden of this tragedy.

Self forgiveness, well forgiveness in general, it's a release if you are able to achieve it.
I suppose it's easier to administer if 'you were a different person at the time' of the crime.
Move on, progress, but it must always shadow you?

 

[singularity]

JonBenet was hidden elsewhere in the basement - UKGuy

UKGuy, Where would the crawlspace be accessible?

Window Leads to Crawl Space? Moreover, as can be seen in this exploded view of each floor of the house, it appears that this window opened into some sort of crawl space beneath the hall where the writing pad was located. Neither Lou Smit nor any other member of BPD ever suggested this window as a possible means into or out of the house, so there presumably is no outdoor access from that crawl space.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement


They overthought everything during that night of hell. In hindsight a much better place to hide her body(if it would fit) is that hidden safe in the hellhole. These cops NEVER would have found her. They didn't even find her where she was!

Linda Wilcox: Yes, and the kids were in one of the other rooms playing. There had been a refrigerator down there. We were cleaning it out and doing things and I was, the floor leading to that room is linoleum and I was cleaning it by hand and I was backing myself out of the room so I wouldn't track over what I had cleaned. And I was backing myself into the wine cellar, the vacuum was behind me as I backed into the wine cellar. When I saw the safe on the floor and I go, hey did you know that there was a safe in here? It was covered with chips and paint and it hadn't been touched in a long time and I actually cleaned it off. And Patsy goes, 'Nah, I didn't know, John probably knows. Maybe he should, you know, drill it out sometime." As far as I know it was never used, there was never anything in it. There was no sign that it had been touched in years when I found it.

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm

When looking for that comment to post, I found that comment that always saddened and infuriated me at the same time. This...

Linda Wilcox: It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked Jonbenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there. One day, it was Suzanne, myself, Nedra and Patsy."

I realize she's dead so obviously doesn't know she's being placed down there but for you to put your child in an area of the house that scared her when she was alive is deplorable and flat out macabre. These people lacked a moral compass. Little things like this reveal a lot about how that household really felt about Jonbenet.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement


They overthought everything during that night of hell. In hindsight a much better place to hide her body(if it would fit) is that hidden safe in the hellhole. These cops NEVER would have found her. They didn't even find her where she was!



http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm

When looking for that comment to post, I found that comment that always saddened and infuriated me at the same time. This...



I realize she's dead so obviously doesn't know she's being placed down there but for you to put your child in an area of the house that scared her when she was alive is deplorable and flat out macabre. These people lacked a moral compass. Little things like this reveal a lot about how that household really felt about Jonbenet.

Thanks singularity,
Ya, I was just watching the DB-Kolar video,
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html
but the footage begins post entrance to the train room, by the closet beside the 'Officer and a Gentlemen' print. Will look through more train room images.

 

[UKGuy]

JonBenet was hidden elsewhere in the basement - UKGuy

UKGuy, Where would the crawlspace be accessible?

Tadpole12,
From the Train-Room/Hobby Room, as per singularity's post.

.

 

[UKGuy]

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement


They overthought everything during that night of hell. In hindsight a much better place to hide her body(if it would fit) is that hidden safe in the hellhole. These cops NEVER would have found her. They didn't even find her where she was!



http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm

When looking for that comment to post, I found that comment that always saddened and infuriated me at the same time. This...



I realize she's dead so obviously doesn't know she's being placed down there but for you to put your child in an area of the house that scared her when she was alive is deplorable and flat out macabre. These people lacked a moral compass. Little things like this reveal a lot about how that household really felt about Jonbenet.

Singularity,
Excellent post. That broken window is patently part of a prior staging which once revised JR reasons away with loosing his keys, whatever, similarly with the suitcase, plainly intended to play some role yet once again JR says Oh No Guys, I brought that down from upstairs, i.e. JR does housework, but employs LHP for same said purpose

Lets assume there was a prior staging that centered on the Train-Room with JonBenet hidden therein or in the crawl-space. So mid-morning JR thinks its not gone to plan they have not found JonBenet, we need to find her so we can fly out of Colorado?

So if she is hidden away so well that a cursory glance cannot observe her JR is thinking I need her somewhere I can just open the door and voila, there she is?

So he relocates JonBenet to the wine-cellar along with associated forensic evidence.

He has worked out he can offer glib excuses for the other items in the Train-Room, including any forensic evidence linking BR, since they were there the night before building some toy?

Its this latter aspect of the R's version of events that has always struck me as odd. You come home late from a party and head off down to a dark basement with a broken window, implying its likely to be cold?

.

 

[Tadpole12]

hmmmm...... window leads to crawlspace?
http://www.acandyrose.com/basement-doors.jpg

so far left corner of train room?

 

[singularity]

Singularity,
Excellent post. That broken window is patently part of a prior staging which once revised JR reasons away with loosing his keys, whatever, similarly with the suitcase, plainly intended to play some role yet once again JR says Oh No Guys, I brought that down from upstairs, i.e. JR does housework, but employs LHP for same said purpose

Lets assume there was a prior staging that centered on the Train-Room with JonBenet hidden therein or in the crawl-space. So mid-morning JR thinks its not gone to plan they have not found JonBenet, we need to find her so we can fly out of Colorado?

So if she is hidden away so well that a cursory glance cannot observe her JR is thinking I need her somewhere I can just open the door and voila, there she is?

So he relocates JonBenet to the wine-cellar along with associated forensic evidence.

He has worked out he can offer glib excuses for the other items in the Train-Room, including any forensic evidence linking BR, since they were there the night before building some toy?

Its this latter aspect of the R's version of events that has always struck me as odd. You come home late from a party and head off down to a dark basement with a broken window, implying its likely to be cold?

.

I agree that the broken window is pure staging and not from a past break in by John. I cant believe anyone bought that story. I am also in full agreement that the suitcase(and its contents) was meant to convey something else entirely but got morphed into the step through the window, mainly thanks to Smit. The Ramseys just let him run with it and played along. The Ramseys were pushing someone with a key before focus was placed on that window. This shows how disingenuous even they themselves knew the intruder theory was. Just indulge any Intruder theory that gains traction, no matter how implausible.

Did we ever get a list of items found in the crawl space? It may have been mentioned in one of the books. Don't remember ATM. If she had been placed in this area, I assume there was evidence of this not yet disclosed as something should show up on her clothing or the blanket.

Even though we have that basic diagram I'd like to see actual pictures of the crawl space. If she really wasn't in the cellar at 6 am, I agree that he moved her from somewhere in that house. While I've considered the idea of the car/garage or even their bedroom, it's gotta be at a spot where she can be moved fairly quickly and low risk of being detected. Only info I know about the car is that Jonbenet's coat was still inside the car even though John had supposedly taken it off inside the house.


I definitely don't buy the official story about coming home. Burke wants to put together some toy with his dad late at night? Hogwash. He had got an N64 earlier that day, THE Christmas gift for 1996. He was nine. If he wanted to play with anything once getting home, it would be whatever games he had got with the Nintendo and most likely would have begged to stay up late. Had John offered to help with some toy, Burke probably would have scoffed at the idea. If anything, Burke might have wanted his dad to check out one of the N64 games, maybe even race him on Mario Kart or some other similar game out at the time. I've wondered if Burke was awake when the attack happened mainly because of the N64. I got a Nintendo for Christmas in 1987. I stayed up until almost 3 am playing it although I didn't have to fly to Michigan the next day.

If memory serves me correctly, many, MANY years ago on the crime forums the very first BDI theory(that I saw anyways) was that Jonbenet was awake with him, they are both playing the N64, Jonbenet is being bratty over something to do with the game, kicks the console or something of that nature, and Burke lashes out at her due to this. John and Patsy upstairs(I assume Patsy packing, John reading) when this initial attack happens.

I am not BDI but if considering it, I'd lean in this general direction and not bludgeoning her during a pineapple snack in the breakfast bar.

Burke's N64 should have been seized to see if anything was on it and to be sure it even still worked properly. Speaking of things that should have been seized, everything on John's plane.

 

[BBB167893]

My theory is this: I agree with the first post on this thread, that the note was written by someone educated, etc. But I don't think it was the Ramseys. It's a very long note. In a panic, I can't imagine anyone writing something as involved as that. Also - why would they even bother with that? If something had really happened to her and they wanted to hide their culpability, it would make more sense for them to try to get rid of her body.

Howdy, snapdragon2. The way I look at it is, because it's such a long note, the person who wrote it was probably agitated to some degree. Otherwise, they would have made a shorter note that was much more to-the-point. I liken it to the difference between the rough cut edit of a film, before the picture has been cleaned up, proper sound effects added and unnecessary scenes removed and the "final" cut, where it all runs (hopefully) together smoothly.

Also, it maybe it would have made more sense, but as I've said many times, it was both risky and it would not have allowed for that grand funeral.

There was no inkling of psychopathy in either of them, and what was done to their daughter was so brutal I can't imagine anyone doing that to their daughter without severe mental issues, even in anger.

Leaving possible mental issues aside (and really, how do any of us know?), I've heard that idea many times. Problem as I see it is, what was done wasn't really all that brutal. Not by design, anyway.

I think that whoever did it either worked at John's company or knew someone (girlfriend? wife?) who did. That person was somehow aware of John's bonus. He had been watching JonBenet for awhile and planning to abduct her. He may have been at that Christmas party they threw and saw the lay-out of the house - maybe that event gave him the incentive to implement a plan at that point.

I used to think that, too. But as you say, there were only a few people who knew what the bonus was. Surely they all would have been checked out by now.

I think he broke in and took JonBenet (wasn't it thought that a stun-gun may have been used?)

"Thought" is right. That's about as far as it went.

I think he wrote the note ahead of time with the idea that if he left it, the police would be looking for a kidnapper, not a pedophile. He left the note and proceeded to try to get her out of the house, but wasn't able to. So he assaulted her there (and maybe because that wasn't part of the plan, he was unable to keep his dna from being left behind on her underwear) and killed her, both hastily. But the only way to really check out my theory or at least parts of it would be to take a look at the employees and figure out who might have been privy to the information about the bonus.

There are a few problems with that idea. Number one, since the circle is so small, they would have found the DNA match by now. Unless what Henry Lee and others have said is true: that the DNA is irrelevant to the case. If that is so, not having a DNA match would not rule the person(s) out as being the killer. But even then, there are other ways to include or exclude someone as a suspect. Number two, he couldn't have killed her TOO hastily. I mean, he let at least an hour elapse between striking her in the head and finally strangling her. Number three, the police, that I know of, already did check out those people you mention.

 

[Tadpole12]

Did we ever get a list of items found in the crawl space? It may have been mentioned in one of the books. Don't remember ATM. If she had been placed in this area, I assume there was evidence of this not yet disclosed as something should show up on her clothing or the blanket.

ST recounts that he and Gossage 'got filthy'......
'crawl space' was not found when searched with in JK's book.
Does he mention the area in other terms?.

ST, IRMI:
p27 ...bottom of the house instead of the top as the detective had suggested. Fleet White followed him down. The basement was a warren of rooms, closets, nooks, and crawl spaces
p 194 ...sets of investigators. In the basement Detective Gosage and I got filthy while snaking through three connecting crawl spaces that got smaller and tighter as we went
PMPT:
p449 look behind walls and inside the crawl spaces. They were looking for the roll of duct tape and the remainder of the cord, but found nothing...
p777 (APPENDIX A?) CRAWL SPACE

Even though we have that basic diagram I'd like to see actual pictures of the crawl space. If she really wasn't in the cellar at 6 am, I agree that he moved her from somewhere in that house. While I've considered the idea of the car/garage or even their bedroom, it's gotta be at a spot where she can be moved fairly quickly and low risk of being detected. Only info I know about the car is that Jonbenet's coat was still inside the car even though John had supposedly taken it off inside the house.

Yes. I'd like to know how the crawl spaces could be accessed and how the three interconnect.

 

[Foreign Faction]

S
Lets assume there was a prior staging that centered on the Train-Room with JonBenet hidden therein or in the crawl-space. So mid-morning JR thinks its not gone to plan they have not found JonBenet, we need to find her so we can fly out of Colorado?

So if she is hidden away so well that a cursory glance cannot observe her JR is thinking I need her somewhere I can just open the door and voila, there she is?

So he relocates JonBenet to the wine-cellar along with associated forensic evidence.

He has worked out he can offer glib excuses for the other items in the Train-Room, including any forensic evidence linking BR, since they were there the night before building some toy?

Its this latter aspect of the R's version of events that has always struck me as odd. You come home late from a party and head off down to a dark basement with a broken window, implying its likely to be cold?

.

Brilliant. I really feel that this was EXACTLY the way it went down, with JR moving her around and starting to get antsy, and his noted disappearance wandering around the house when he should have been eagerly anticipating the kidnappers' call (lol). The more I think about it, whatever their reasons for protecting BR, these are bad, bad people, man.

 

[CircuitGuy]

How many people were aware of John's $118, 000 bonus? Who were they? Because that is too much of a coincidence. Whoever did it knew about this bonus. So did they identify all of the people who may have known about it? Thanks!

Someone in a high tax bracket typically keeps two thirds of his pay. Was $118k his pre-tax or after-withholding bonus? Did he own the whole business? If not, he probably had stock grants and options transactions that worked out to various amounts, one of which is likely to be near $118k. I agree it's probably related, if only because the number was on the writer's mind. I'm just pointing out if you took some random number, you could probably relate it to his business in some way.

My wild guess is Patsy wrote the note in an agitated state, without having time to think through little intentional hints and complex subterfuge. It was just a bunch of crap all over the place trying to point to someone at his business, someone who didn't like his business, someone with a vague geo-political ax to grind; anyone but the Ramsey's. In her excited and agitated state, she probably sought a number that was large but not ridiculously large. She had heard the number $118k, and it stuck in her mind. They were worth a few million, but I bet PR hardly knew that. Some of it was probably illiquid in shares or options on shares; some of it was probably in various investment accounts. She probably had a budget to blow $15k/mo or so on pageants, furniture, house parties with clients, investors and vendors invited, and whatever else, and he managed all the rest of their wealth. John would manage the details of any major purchase like a new house, car, plane, etc. So $118k sounded like a big number to her, like more money than she personally handles in half a year. It's like to a kid for whom $200 is huge money who does not realize his parents are worth hundreds of thousands. Such a kid would be shocked to learn his parents could sell some stock and put their hands on hundreds of thousands within a day or two. It sounds really old-school to me, but many housewives mentally operate like children when it comes to money management.

In this theory she was focused on disguising her handwriting and probably hardly realized she was writing lines from recent movies and an amount from her husband's business. If John had been involved in the details and had even a few minutes to think about them calmly, he would have said, "you'd better make it one million."

 

[CircuitGuy]

Brilliant. I really feel that this was EXACTLY the way it went down, with JR moving her around and starting to get antsy, and his noted disappearance wandering around the house when he should have been eagerly anticipating the kidnappers' call (lol). The more I think about it, whatever their reasons for protecting BR, these are bad, bad people, man.

Much of the RN is focused on saying the kidnappers will be monitoring them and if they tell anyone, they'll kill JBR. Is there any record of anyone that morning asking a police officer, "It says not to tell anyone and we have 13 people over here. Are you sure we're doing the right thing?"

 

[grillzgirl]

Much of the RN is focused on saying the kidnappers will be monitoring them and if they tell anyone, they'll kill JBR. Is there any record of anyone that morning asking a police officer, "It says not to tell anyone and we have 13 people over here. Are you sure we're doing the right thing?"

Exactly. The clock just ticked away yet the R's didn't sit by the phone and wait for it to ring. They knew where she was. They knew she was dead. They practically had a dinner party with all the "friends/guests" they invited to the kidnapping party.

 

[Foreign Faction]

Much of the RN is focused on saying the kidnappers will be monitoring them and if they tell anyone, they'll kill JBR. Is there any record of anyone that morning asking a police officer, "It says not to tell anyone and we have 13 people over here. Are you sure we're doing the right thing?"

Probably not lol.

I wonder, since I'm new here, has anyone, professional or otherwise, ever attempted to estimate Patsy's IQ? Maybe I should start a thread on that?

 

[Foreign Faction]

Exactly. The clock just ticked away yet the R's didn't sit by the phone and wait for it to ring. They knew where she was. They knew she was dead. They practically had a dinner party with all the "friends/guests" they invited to the kidnapping party.

Love the term "kidnapping party," with your delightful hostess PR. You go grillzgirl!

 

[Tadpole12]

Someone in a high tax bracket typically keeps two thirds of his pay. Was $118k his pre-tax or after-withholding bonus? Did he own the whole business? If not, he probably had stock grants and options transactions that worked out to various amounts, one of which is likely to be near $118k. I agree it's probably related, if only because the number was on the writer's mind. I'm just pointing out if you took some random number, you could probably relate it to his business in some way.

My wild guess is Patsy wrote the note in an agitated state, without having time to think through little intentional hints and complex subterfuge. It was just a bunch of crap all over the place trying to point to someone at his business, someone who didn't like his business, someone with a vague geo-political ax to grind; anyone but the Ramsey's. In her excited and agitated state, she probably sought a number that was large but not ridiculously large. She had heard the number $118k, and it stuck in her mind. They were worth a few million, but I bet PR hardly knew that. Some of it was probably illiquid in shares or options on shares; some of it was probably in various investment accounts. She probably had a budget to blow $15k/mo or so on pageants, furniture, house parties with clients, investors and vendors invited, and whatever else, and he managed all the rest of their wealth. John would manage the details of any major purchase like a new house, car, plane, etc. So $118k sounded like a big number to her, like more money than she personally handles in half a year. It's like to a kid for whom $200 is huge money who does not realize his parents are worth hundreds of thousands. Such a kid would be shocked to learn his parents could sell some stock and put their hands on hundreds of thousands within a day or two. It sounds really old-school to me, but many housewives mentally operate like children when it comes to money management.

In this theory she was focused on disguising her handwriting and probably hardly realized she was writing lines from recent movies and an amount from her husband's business. If John had been involved in the details and had even a few minutes to think about them calmly, he would have said, "you'd better make it one million."

Heyya CircuitGuy.

wrt 118
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?49860-Ransom-note-analysis&p=12361825#post12361825

 

[Sherwood Park]

Much of the RN is focused on saying the kidnappers will be monitoring them and if they tell anyone, they'll kill JBR. Is there any record of anyone that morning asking a police officer, "It says not to tell anyone and we have 13 people over here. Are you sure we're doing the right thing?"

CircuitGuy you are overthinking this, you are way smarter than PR! She was too busy writing an over dramatic, unbelievable short story; there was no time to think sensibly. I personally think PR and JR forgot what was in the RN. I think that morning JR wanted to forget everything about the horrible nightmare their family was now caught in. I seriously think JR thought the police would read his wife's ridiculous RN, think it true, discover the body in the basement, blame the kidnappers turned killers, and case closed.

 

[CircuitGuy]

Much of the RN is focused on saying the kidnappers will be monitoring them and if they tell anyone, they'll kill JBR. Is there any record of anyone that morning asking a police officer, "It says not to tell anyone and we have 13 people over here. Are you sure we're doing the right thing?"

Exactly. The clock just ticked away yet the R's didn't sit by the phone and wait for it to ring.

I wonder if there was any discussion that morning of whether tomorrow meant that morning or the following morning. The note says they'll call between 8am and 10am. It also mentions they might call earlier if the kidnappers monitor the Ramsey's getting the money early. It seems difficult to get that that amount of cash by 10am the day after Christmas. The kidnappers couldn't even be sure they would find the note by 10am.

I would expect some frantic speculation about this: What do they mean by tomorrow? They mentioned monitoring. Might they have bugged the house? What's this arduous delivery? If they ask me to meet them on some snowy mountain trail, are they just going to take John hostage or maybe kill him? Given how weird this is, could this be some kind of sick prank organized by JBR and Burke?

The accounts make it sound like they just got the money and hung out waiting for the kidnappers to make their move.

 

[AndHence]

I've always taken the '8am and 10am' tomorrow to be a rushed mistake by the author. The note was written at night and subconsciously you think of daylight as tomorrow even if you are writing something at 1 or 2am.