Ransom Note and Common Sense

[TinaD]

Nope, they couldn't delay calling the police because they were supposed to be going away that morning - how do they explain JBR's absence? Or if they cancelled the trip, they still need a reason.

The trip backed them into a time frame - they had to call the police when they did.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Sorry maybe its me but I'm not getting any of this...

They could've called 911 operator from anytime that night up to 10AM on Dec 27th, the next day. They would still have a valid argument that they simply wanted to comply with the ransom note.

Except for the fact that they had a plane to catch at 7 am on the 26th and were meeting the older kids later that day. What should they have done? If it were a real kidnapping I would think they would have called the pilot first and made up some excuse for not going to Michigan. Looks to me like if they needed comfort, they would have called the older kids and asked them to come straight to Boulder, we'll explain when you get here. In this scenario, they called the police, cancelled the trip, called the family together for moral support and are patiently awaiting the phone call from the kidnappers. I'm also suggesting they should have told the police to be discreet so that the kidnappers would not see them arriving. I never took the time to think about exactly what they would have done had this been an actual kidnapping and now that I have their actions are more ridiculous than I imagined.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nope, they couldn't delay calling the police because they were supposed to be going away that morning - how do they explain JBR's absence? Or if they cancelled the trip, they still need a reason.

The trip backed them into a time frame - they had to call the police when they did.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

If a real kidnapper left a real ransom note after really kidnapping someone's kid, and the parents had a flight, they'd simply cancel and the pilot wouldn't question the cancellation. Its not like school, they don't need an excuse slip.

 

[MurriFlower]

Sorry maybe its me but I'm not getting any of this...

They could've called 911 operator from anytime that night up to 10AM on Dec 27th, the next day. They would still have a valid argument that they simply wanted to comply with the ransom note.

Nah, it's not you. The problem is with RDI. They say the Rs (one, other or both) killed their daughter for no reason. Then they have to say the Rs wrote the RN to cover for themselves. Then they have to say the Rs didn't comply with the RN because they knew she was already dead. Then they have to explain why the Rs just didn't write a RN that they could comply with. Then they have to explain why they would write a RN that said she was kidnapped and then JR goes and finds the body himself. They end up saying that he did it cause he really loved his daughter and didn't want her left there. A goofy kinda logic.

 

[joeskidbeck]

The logic is only "goofy" when it's made to look that way, but that won't change the facts. All of them, taken together that tells a real story of a little girl's death and her parent's efforts to stay out of prison (or to keep someone else out).
There have been a lot of scenarios put forth on these threads by IDI that RDIs may think are "goofy", but we are not here to try and make our theories look better by hurting/humiliating others for their theories. I hate myself for even typing these words, but there are a lot of people who would post here for JonBenet if we could all be considerate of other's feelings and not have to feel intimidated. It's a shame that we can't.

 

[TinaD]

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

If a real kidnapper left a real ransom note after really kidnapping someone's kid, and the parents had a flight, they'd simply cancel and the pilot wouldn't question the cancellation. Its not like school, they don't need an excuse slip.

They need an excuse slip for the rest of the family they were supposed to meet.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Except for the fact that they had a plane to catch at 7 am on the 26th and were meeting the older kids later that day. What should they have done? If it were a real kidnapping I would think they would have called the pilot first and made up some excuse for not going to Michigan. Looks to me like if they needed comfort, they would have called the older kids and asked them to come straight to Boulder, we'll explain when you get here. In this scenario, they called the police, cancelled the trip, called the family together for moral support and are patiently awaiting the phone call from the kidnappers. I'm also suggesting they should have told the police to be discreet so that the kidnappers would not see them arriving. I never took the time to think about exactly what they would have done had this been an actual kidnapping and now that I have their actions are more ridiculous than I imagined.

Sorry but I'm sincerely not getting this. It seems more like smoke.

The original question related to why guilty parents would not wait and clean up more (pineapple, cord, etc.). RDI responds saying they HAD to call 911 when they did because of previous travel/family arrangements.

OK so far?

According to this logic, parents in a real kidnap for ransom who had previous travel arrangements would HAVE to call 911 because of their travel plans regardless of what the ransom note said.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Sorry but I'm sincerely not getting this. It seems more like smoke.

The original question related to why guilty parents would not wait and clean up more (pineapple, cord, etc.). RDI responds saying they HAD to call 911 when they did because of previous travel/family arrangements.

OK so far?

According to this logic, parents in a real kidnap for ransom who had previous travel arrangements would HAVE to call 911 because of their travel plans regardless of what the ransom note said.

BBM

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that logic. I did say that I agree with them calling 911. I would have done the same thing. They did have to cancel the travel plans as they had a private pilot, it's not like they were travelling commercial airlines and nobody would care whether or not they showed up. My problem with their actions began when they called over all their friends with no regard for what the rn said. I cannot see any logic in that. I would not want anyone stepping foot in my house that would endanger the health of my child and they did know what that note said. Patsy said she only read part of it but JR read the whole thing. In my opinion, they either lost all common sense after calling 911 or they had an agenda. These intruders would have been in their house for hours, how would they know their house wasn't bugged from top to bottom? Logically it would have been had the kidnappers been real and meant business. How else could they monitor their every move?

 

[txsvicki]

I agree, Linda. I have never had a problem with the Ramseys calling the police. I KNOW that I would have done the same. My problem is them calling all their friends (except the Stines, of course) and being allowed to thoroughly bungle the crime scene.

It was strange that they called all their friends and preacher over, but then they seemed to socialize all the time. I thought it was weird that they couldn't even spend Christmas day alone, as a family, but had to go over to their friends' home with all their family before jetting off to another get together.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

BBM

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that logic. I did say that I agree with them calling 911. I would have done the same thing. They did have to cancel the travel plans as they had a private pilot, it's not like they were travelling commercial airlines and nobody would care whether or not they showed up. My problem with their actions began when they called over all their friends with no regard for what the rn said. I cannot see any logic in that. I would not want anyone stepping foot in my house that would endanger the health of my child and they did know what that note said. Patsy said she only read part of it but JR read the whole thing. In my opinion, they either lost all common sense after calling 911 or they had an agenda. These intruders would have been in their house for hours, how would they know their house wasn't bugged from top to bottom? Logically it would have been had the kidnappers been real and meant business. How else could they monitor their every move?

Guilty parents didn't need to call 911 when they did any more than innocent parents would. The ransom note allowed guilty parents until 10AM Dec 27 to do whatever they wanted to clean up or even get JBR out of there. Having JBR not there would be more consistent with the ransom note that they read to the 911 operator.

 

[MurriFlower]

They need an excuse slip for the rest of the family they were supposed to meet.

Someone is sick, we can't make it.

 

[madeleine]

If my daughter were in the hands of a "small foreign faction", I would read the letter line by line to make sure I did exactly what they wanted me to do so I would see my little girl again.

ITA with this.I'd freeze and stop for a minute to think,this is my child's life we're talking about,her life depends on my decisions and actions now.

You don't know who the enemy is so I guess you'd be more careful and maybe even afraid to do exactly what the enemy says NOT to do.

JR's last sentence never made sense to me,there's no logic in it,it's against human instinct.

:twocents:


CABELL: Mrs. Ramsey -- you found the note. Was it a handwritten note, three pages?

RAMSEY, P: I didn't -- I couldn't read the whole thing I -- I just gotten up. We were on our -- it was the day after Christmas, and we were going to go visiting, and it was quite early in the morning, and I had got dressed and was on my way to the kitchen to make some coffee, and we have a back staircase from the bedroom areas, and I always come down that staircase, and I am usually the first one down. And the note was lying across the -- three pages -- across the run of one of the stair treads, and it was kind of dimly lit.

It was just very early in the morning, and I started to read it, and it was addressed to John. It said "Mr. Ramsey," And it said, "we have your daughter." And I -- you know, it just was -- it just wasn't registering, and I -- I may have gotten through another sentence. I can't -- "we have your daughter." and I don't know if I got any further than that. And I immediately ran back upstairs and pushed open her door, and she was not in her bed, and I screamed for John.

CABELL: John, you subsequently read the note. Was there anything in there that struck you in any sense?

RAMSEY, J: Well, no. I mean, I read it very fast. I was out of my mind. And it said "Don't call the police." You know, that type of thing. And I told Patsy, call the police immediately. And I think I ran through the house a bit.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Madeleine, he should have also said: It said don't talk to a stray dog-so I called everyone in my address book...

 

[SheBoss]

So basically, what I'm understanding through all of this is - the Ramsey's have never given a valid reason as to why they called all their friends. Again, calling the police, I completely understand. However, I would have told 911 that the note said NOT to call, so whatever you do, be descreet when you get here. If PR was too hysterical to read the note and understand it, why did she call 911? Again - if this was a real RN, their inability for them (2 intelligent people) to read and understand the note would have effectively killed their child. They weren't ordering a pizza here.

This (supposedly) very first action from them showed their complete guilt no matter what DNA, forensics or any other evidence said. IMO and all that.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[Maikai]

I agree, Linda. I have never had a problem with the Ramseys calling the police. I KNOW that I would have done the same. My problem is them calling all their friends (except the Stines, of course) and being allowed to thoroughly bungle the crime scene.

They didn't call all their friends---just their minister, and their closest ones---that's not unusual--in a crisis, many people call friends. They didn't know about contaminating a crime scene---that's what the police are there for, and we all know how that went. Many small police depts would be ill-equipped to handle a kidnapping.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In your biased opinion I think is the preface here.

If they already knew she was dead they would have just written the RN to say they would be contacted by 6am, and then rang 911 and said "we did like they said, but no one phoned". Remember, in your biased opinion they were the ones writing the script, so they could have made it anthing they liked.

JR would not have hidden her if he intended to find her again, he would have just stood back comforting his wife while they searched. Cops find the body, parents are completely outside the crime scene.

Ah yes, but the cops didn't find the body. We know perps often times return to the scene of the crime and we also know many times perps are "helpful" in the investigations, I also know sometimes perps can't stand the suspence, I believe John was motivated to discover the body because no one else did. John musta been beside himself when Fleet failed to find it. I think John couldn't bare the thought of her just laying there any longer, hours had went by.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

JR's last sentence never made sense to me,there's no logic in it,it's against human instinct.

:twocents:

There's no shortage of good reasons to call 911 upon finding the note. Probably the best one is the cops come and find JBR right away with some mental guy down the street.

I can't believe you would take away hot persuit as an option to recover/locate a missing child. Plus the cops would seal off the house and neighborhood.

There's even a potential civil liability for a parent not calling the police when they know their minor child is in danger. Taking the law into your own hands and all that.

 

[SheBoss]

They didn't call all their friends---just their minister, and their closest ones---that's not unusual--in a crisis, many people call friends. They didn't know about contaminating a crime scene---that's what the police are there for, and we all know how that went. Many small police depts would be ill-equipped to handle a kidnapping.

With all due respect, is it not unusual to call friends when the ransom note expressly told you not to or your daughter would die, or even more specifically, be beheaded?

 

[passionflower]

After hearing Tricia and Levi on Levi's show. I never knew that the pen had it's top on and returned to the storage cup it came from............an intruder would not be so tidy!!![ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115766"]2010.09.28 Levi P. Show: JonBenet Case Heats up! Tricia from WS weighs in - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Ames]

Any normal person would not listen to the ramblings of some psychopath,and the first instinct would be to call the police. Patsy asked JR what they should do, because the note said not to call the police. He told her to call the police. As he said in their book, he thought they would put up roadblocks, etc. to try to find her.

Patsy read only the beginning where it said they had their daughter...and she ran upstairs and saw JBR missing and called for John. Their actions seem normal to me. They had no idea that the police would screw things up. I doubt the perp was watching the house, but if he were, he would have seen the police come right up to the house.

Had the Ramseys not done what most people would do, and not call the police, I can only imagine what would have been said about those actions.

Ummm...you are forgetting, that not only did they call police...BUT ALSO all of their friends and neighbors over too. Sorry, but...if my daughter had been "kidnapped", and a RN was left behind, I am not going to say..."Gee...I don't think that I am going to read this stupid note here, that I found on the stairs, because it is just a bunch of rambling by some psychopath." Or...after reading a few lines of the note say..."Well, I am just not going to pay any attention to this garbage, it is just a bunch of rambling by some psychopath". You said that any "normal" person would not listen to it....I disagree...I would think that any ABNORMAL person wouldn't listen to it, and do exactly as it said to do, any NORMAL parent or person...would follow it word for word. You obviously do not have children...because those words would have never flowed from your brain to your fingertips and wrote such a thing, if you did. And if you do...then God forbid anything ever happen to them where a psychopath's ramblings are left behind on paper inside of your home.