RDI Theorists

[julianne]

I said accident.

I believe the Ramseys are involved because too many details make the intruder theory hard to accept - not impossible, but hard.

I can't get past the chronic sexual molestation. She'd been didled before the 25th/26th.

The statement of "chronic sexual molestation" is yet another example of incorrect information. The autopsy report does not say that JonBenet was a victim of chronic sexual molestation at all. I'll eat my words if you can prove this otherwise, but I won't need to.

Didled???:sick:

 

[Chrishope]

So they chose a figure that would point to them in an attempt to point the finger at someone else who was trying to point it at them? The 2 of them agreed that this would be a good idea? The thought process behind" let's make it look like someone else was trying to make it look like we did it" is bizarre at best.I cannot buy into that theory as it just doesn't make any sense.
The dollar amount definitely leads away from the Ramseys IMO.

The 118K points both ways, whether it was written by the Ramseys or by an intruder. Like so many other aspects of this case it makes sense (or doesn't make sense) for either RDI or IDI.

If it was an intruder, he makes the note point at himself - he knows the family, or knows of JR's bonus, so maybe works for Access Graphics. Why would an intruder point to himself?

And why would an intruder choose such a low amount ?

 

[lovebites]

Hi LP. I do believe this is debated to this day, much like the strangulation before the head blow debate.

From the separating fact from fiction thread:

Did the autopsy report address which the coroner thought came first?

 

[Chrishope]

The statement of "chronic sexual molestation" is yet another example of incorrect information. The autopsy report does not say that JonBenet was a victim of chronic sexual molestation at all. I'll eat my words if you can prove this otherwise, but I won't need to.

Didled???:sick:

No the autopsy report doesn't say it. It just describes the vaginal abrassions, or something like that. Some experts believe that the abrassions are consistant with chronic sexual molestation. The Ramseys family doctor doesn't agree.

I'll try to find the expert opinion I was reading the other day.

 

[Chrishope]

Did the autopsy report address which the coroner thought came first?

I don't think so, from what I recall.

 

[lovebites]

The statement of "chronic sexual molestation" is yet another example of incorrect information. The autopsy report does not say that JonBenet was a victim of chronic sexual molestation at all. I'll eat my words if you can prove this otherwise, but I won't need to.

Didled???:sick:

The only thing that I recall of this is that it was "possible" that on the night of the murder (not prior) that she was penetrated by something much smaller than a penis. Even that was debatable. Her hymen was intact from what I understood.

 

[aussiesheila]

What kind of flashlight was it? I have a large maglite that takes 4 D-cells. I could crack a 6 year old's scull with it, I'm sure.

Do you really, really think so Chrishope? That is something I am not at all sure about. I tried to get people into discussing the physics of it all somewhere on this forum but no-one took it up. I have tried googling fatal head injuries but that sort of gruesome stuff doesn't seem to feature on the web. From what I can tell the skull bone is pretty thick and strong and I just cannot see a Maglite swung by the likes of Patsy or John even in the blindest of rages being enough to cause that huge fracture and bone dislodgement. On the other hand, I can quite easily see a baseball bat swung the way it normally is in hitting a baseball as being capable of cracking a skull open.

 

[lovebites]

I don't think so, from what I recall.

hmmm.....I wonder if they figure that out by the bleeding or lackthereof within the skull. ie: if the injury was after death there would be no bleeding on the brain.

 

[lovebites]

Do you really, really think so Chrishope? That is something I am not at all sure about. I tried to get people into discussing the physics of it all somewhere on this forum but no-one took it up. I have tried googling fatal head injuries but that sort of gruesome stuff doesn't seem to feature on the web. From what I can tell the skull bone is pretty thick and strong and I just cannot see a Maglite swung by the likes of Patsy or John even in the blindest of rages being enough to cause that huge fracture and bone dislodgement. On the other hand, I can quite easily see a baseball bat swung the way it normally is in hitting a baseball as being capable of cracking a skull open.

You could kill someone with some of those flashlights. We have one that is quite long, metal and heavy - it could do some serious damage.

 

[aussiesheila]

Well the thing I don't get is the note $118.000. Inless they(ramseys) wanted it to look like someone in the company did it. Who else would know Mr. R got that amount?

I think John said in DOI that the amount was printed an all his pay slips for about 12 months and that someone who had an opportunity of snooping around their house might have come across one. He also said that some of the Access Graphics employees would have been awre of the amount.

 

[Chrishope]

hmmm.....I wonder if they figure that out by the bleeding or lackthereof within the skull. ie: if the injury was after death there would be no bleeding on the brain.

From what I've been picking up on the web the would might not have bled much because the skin wasn't broken - I'll have to go back and look at the autopsy report. I would think they could tell how much internal bleeding there was.

Another aspect is brain swelling. It takes time for the brain to swell, apparently, so that would place the blow prior to garrotting. But I'm not sure they found swelling.

To many conflicts, and too much reading to do. You'd think after 10 years these matters would be settled and written down in one place.

 

[Chrishope]

Do you really, really think so Chrishope? That is something I am not at all sure about. I tried to get people into discussing the physics of it all somewhere on this forum but no-one took it up. I have tried googling fatal head injuries but that sort of gruesome stuff doesn't seem to feature on the web. From what I can tell the skull bone is pretty thick and strong and I just cannot see a Maglite swung by the likes of Patsy or John even in the blindest of rages being enough to cause that huge fracture and bone dislodgement. On the other hand, I can quite easily see a baseball bat swung the way it normally is in hitting a baseball as being capable of cracking a skull open.

I only had high school physics so if you're looking for formulas about force, velocity, and such, I don't know. My maglight is pretty heavy for a flashlight. It's metal. It wouldn't suprise me if you could crack a skull with it. But I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. It might be there isn't enough mass there. I suppose the best way to figure it out - short of taking more physics classes- would be to try to find other skull fractures caused by swinging objects of approximately the same size/weight.

 

[JBean]

The 118K points both ways, whether it was written by the Ramseys or by an intruder. Like so many other aspects of this case it makes sense (or doesn't make sense) for either RDI or IDI.

If it was an intruder, he makes the note point at himself - he knows the family, or knows of JR's bonus, so maybe works for Access Graphics. Why would an intruder point to himself?

And why would an intruder choose such a low amount ?

You are right in that it just doesn't make sense however you frame it. But then nothing about the crime itself makes sense.

 

[JBean]

I only had high school physics so if you're looking for formulas about force, velocity, and such, I don't know. My maglight is pretty heavy for a flashlight. It's metal. It wouldn't suprise me if you could crack a skull with it. But I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. It might be there isn't enough mass there. I suppose the best way to figure it out - short of taking more physics classes- would be to try to find other skull fractures caused by swinging objects of approximately the same size/weight.

My BIL is PhD in Physics and teaches at a University . I will ask him next week and post his response.

 

[aussiesheila]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/17/ng.01.html

SPITZ: Well, she did -- it could not have been an accident because she is hit in the head with a heavy instrument, which caused a rectangular fracture in the skull, into which it is possible to sink the head of a 3- mag flashlight. It`s similar to what the police carry, but the police carry a 5-mag. This is a 3-mag flashlight, which was seen on pictures on the kitchen counter. And you need to pick up this thing and heave it over the head and strike with force into the head. How can that be an accident?

So it was a 3-mag flashlight, fairly large, fairly heavy. Everyone agreed on that?

If it was the flashlight that fractured JonBenet's skull the killing could not have been an accident, as in "I only meant to hit her on the head but didn't mean to crack her skull in" type of accident. Agreed?

The killing had to be intentional. That is, Patsy must have had to have been so furious with JonBenet that she really wanted to kill her. Crack her head open and kill her. Patsy would have had to summon all her strength and take a huge swipe at JonBenet and hit the centre of her skull with great accuracy. Even if Patsy did all this, I do not think it was physically possible for her to have crushed JonBenet's skull the way it was with that flashlight.

 

[Chrishope]

So it was a 3-mag flashlight, fairly large, fairly heavy. Everyone agreed on that?

If it was the flashlight that fractured JonBenet's skull the killing could not have been an accident, as in "I only meant to hit her on the head but didn't mean to crack her skull in" type of accident. Agreed?

The killing had to be intentional. That is, Patsy must have had to have been so furious with JonBenet that she really wanted to kill her. Crack her head open and kill her. Patsy would have had to summon all her strength and take a huge swipe at JonBenet and hit the centre of her skull with great accuracy. Even if Patsy did all this, I do not think it was physically possible for her to do it with that flashlight.

Even if one could do it with a flashlight, it seems an unlikely response to bed wetting. I've always assumed JR did it, and I've always assumed that the garrotting came first and the blow to the head second.

I don't know, I may end up IDI before it's all over

 

[JBean]

Is there any kind of history of PR being physical with JBR? Did people see "things' that made them wonder?

 

[sillyhead]

I'm very new to all this information, but have read a lot (way too much!) since JK was arrested. I think the Ramsey's at least knew who did it. I think that JK might help bring some of this to light, which is why I think JR wants to get out of Dodge. But it won't surprise me if we find out that Alice in Wonderland teleported her to Oz and offed her with the help of Abraham Lincoln. It's just soooo bizarre!
C

 

[Hyatt]

Interesting. I see that most people share my view that this was an accident followed by a cover-up. I'd be interested in knowing WHICH Ramsey people feel was involved.

I say that it was Burke - and an accident although a blow in a fit of anger.

JMO

 

[lovebites]

From what I've been picking up on the web the would might not have bled much because the skin wasn't broken - I'll have to go back and look at the autopsy report. I would think they could tell how much internal bleeding there was.

Another aspect is brain swelling. It takes time for the brain to swell, apparently, so that would place the blow prior to garrotting. But I'm not sure they found swelling.

To many conflicts, and too much reading to do. You'd think after 10 years these matters would be settled and written down in one place.

Oh I know, it seems that things are (if it's possible) even more confusing now than ever. You can research this case dutifully and still be no further in the "know" because none of the info is consistent! Actually it couldn't be more conflicting. Makes your head spin.