Read this and tell me the Ramseys aren't hiding something ...

[Toth]

I don't necessarily think the Rs are completley innocent

I've got two pieces of news for you:
One: They are!
Two: There ain't no such thing as being only slightly guilty! They did not have any knowledge of it, they did not participate in it and there was no cover up!

 

[sissi]

There is enough information that was hidden from us during the first years,information that pointed to an intruder,information that was deliberately left out of the "leaks",that indicates the Ramseys are innocent..IMO
Why the police wanted them guilty,should be of concern to all of us,if this could happen to a nice upper middle class family,it could happen to any one of us. The fact the family was horribly victimized by some evil predator was a tragedy,to compound this by influencing public opinion to believe them guilty compounded this tragedy. My hopes are with the new investigation that the fresh look will find the killer and release the family from the horror of the last seven years.
IMO

 

[Cherokee]

If you can't find ANY parent, guilty or innocent who behaved this way then you can't draw any conclusions about how the behavior relates to guilt or innocence.

I didn't say I couldn't find any parent, guilty or innocent, who behaved this way. I ASKED for ONE example of any parent who would act like the Ramseys did after JBR's death. I was being sarcastic (and facetious) that there IS no other example of a parent acting as high and mighty, and devoid of true emotion, as the Ramseys. Everything they did was to protect their image, not find justice for their daughter.

There is something horribly wrong with this picture.

What parent, innocent or guilty, would say on national TV, barely a week after their daughter's alleged brutal murder and rape, that they WEREN'T ANGRY AT THE PERSON WHO DID IT?

I can draw conclusions from that statement, and I will. There are psychological norms that involve the whole of society and the individual, and don't try to excuse the Ramsey's behavior by giving me that old "everyone is different and grieves in their own way."

Of course, everyone is different, but there are certain absolutes of normal behavior and emotions. That's what psychology is all about.

I'm asking for an example of just ONE parent who would not be ANGRY at whoever killed their child ONE WEEK AFTER IT HAPPENED. If the Ramseys are innocent, they should have been, and should still be FURIOUS.

Even guilty parents know to put on a pretense of anger and grief at the loss of their loved one. But not the Ramseys. Oh no. They were above all that. Their lawyers were hired to keep their butts out of jail, and they did a darn good job. The Ramseys knew they could never be touched with a ten foot pole.



IMO

 

[Britt]

Right on, Cherokee :clap:

 

[sissi]

I love Barbara Bush,but had to wonder why she went to the golf course to play a few holes at her daughter's death. Everyone deals with death and grief differently,there is no right way. In the case of Patsy Ramsey it seems she suffered from something very similar to pts,and clearly didn't cope well at all. John Ramsey lost a child ,was suffering himself and didn't know how to deal with his fading wife. It is all very sad,these people are innocent and condemned by so many based on misinformation deliberately leaked to the media by a gaggle of egotistical police and investigators.
IMO

 

[Cherokee]

I love Barbara Bush,but had to wonder why she went to the golf course to play a few holes at her daughter's death. Everyone deals with death and grief differently,there is no right way. In the case of Patsy Ramsey it seems she suffered from something very similar to pts,and clearly didn't cope well at all. John Ramsey lost a child ,was suffering himself and didn't know how to deal with his fading wife. It is all very sad,these people are innocent and condemned by so many based on misinformation deliberately leaked to the media by a gaggle of egotistical police and investigators.
IMO

I agree, Barbara is a class act. But she didn't just go to the golf course and play a few holes at her daughter's death. She did grieve in other ways. Her daughter had leukemia and it was not a sudden death. One of the reasons George W. developed his wise-cracking sense of humor was trying to cheer his mother up after Robin's death. It really upset him to see his mother so torn up, and depressed, after his little sister died.

Barbara DID not do a PR interview on national TV and say she was NOT ANGRY her daughter had been taken from her. Her daughter did not die a violent death at the hands of an alleged intruder and molester. Barbara was never a suspect in her daughter's death.

The death of the Bush's child and the death of the Ramsey's child are two vastly different occurances. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

The Ramseys SHOULD have been angry at who killed JonBenet. They could have been angry, and never had to verbalize their anger. But the fact they actually said they WERE NOT ANGRY at the killer is incomprehensible, UNLESS the "killer" was member of their family.

You said, "It is all very sad,these people are innocent and condemned by so many based on misinformation deliberately leaked to the media by a gaggle of egotistical police and investigators."

The Ramseys are not innocent.

The Ramseys are not condemned because of misinformation deliberately leaked to the media by ANYONE.

The CNN interview was NOT LEAKED INFORMATION. No one made the Ramseys do that interview. No one put words in their mouths.

Their own words condemn them.



IMO

 

[Nehemiah]

I've got two pieces of news for you:
One: They are!
Two: There ain't no such thing as being only slightly guilty! They did not have any knowledge of it, they did not participate in it and there was no cover up!

There are degrees of involvement, and I sometimes think that the Rs were involved in a cover up.

 

[Barbara]

Despite her desire to be like them, Patsy Ramsey is no Barbara Bush, nor is she close to being the class act Jackie Kennedy was.

I am really tired of those who will blame everyone but the Ramseys for their behavior (see my post in the Court of Public Opinion thread). Their lack of cooperation with the investigation and their BAD and SUSPICIOUS behavior is their own doing, their own doing, their own doing.

It's not BAD ADVICE
It's not LEAKS FROM THE MEDIA
It's not LEAKS FROM BPD
It's not DIFFERENT GRIEVING METHODS
It's not EVERYONE ELSE!

It's the Ramseys, end of story. The RST will continue to spout the "against their lawyers advice"..they spoke to police, they took a polygraph, they did this, they did that, etc.

But the most important thing of all, helping to find the killer/s of their daughter, they relied on bad advice? Bu*****t :liar:

John and Patsy both spent their adult lives making decisions and John, being the CEO and obvious decision maker in day to day life suddenly relied on others advice. C'mon, give us a break. Every move they made was their own, plain and simple.

The most important decision they would ever be asked to make was to do what they could to bring about justice for their daughter, who lies in the ground today, 7 + years later, without justice. They CHOSE to get stoned instead and stonewall an investigation that THEY ADMIT needed to get past them to go further, and they continued to refuse.

I believe those of us who are parents know the deal. I expect many RST here, who are parents to come back with the "everyone grieves differently", "we can't say what we would do", "you don't know how you would behave", "you can't put yourself in that position", etc. To that I say...NONSENSE! I do not believe anyone who has a child would do what the Ramseys did in that situation. NOBODY!

Cherokee,

:clap:

 

[Nehemiah]

I believe that the Rs would have much more credibility if they would come forth and say "We messed up. In the initial stage of the investigation, we now realize that we didn't do everything that could have been done. We should have worked fully to get ourselves cleared, and that would have allowed the BPD/FBI to proceed...." or whatever they need to say in order to take their share of the situation. Yes, the BPD screwed up royally, but so did the Rs, for whatever reason. Why not just be humble and say they didn't do every single thing right? I think the general public would appreciate that type of transparency, and that in itself could keep the case moving forward, if that is what they truly want. Haven't we all apologized at some time for something that we don't think we were totally responsible for--just to move a relationship along? Same here. Come out and instead of blaming and suing everyone, take responsibility for their part in the bungled investigation from DAY 1. Be humble and say "we're hurting and we caused some of this pain ourselves."

 

[Barbara]

I believe that the Rs would have much more credibility if they would come forth and say "We messed up. In the initial stage of the investigation, we now realize that we didn't do everything that could have been done. We should have worked fully to get ourselves cleared, and that would have allowed the BPD/FBI to proceed...." or whatever they need to say in order to take their share of the situation. Yes, the BPD screwed up royally, but so did the Rs, for whatever reason. Why not just be humble and say they didn't do every single thing right? I think the general public would appreciate that type of transparency, and that in itself could keep the case moving forward, if that is what they truly want. Haven't we all apologized at some time for something that we don't think we were totally responsible for--just to move a relationship along? Same here. Come out and instead of blaming and suing everyone, take responsibility for their part in the bungled investigation from DAY 1. Be humble and say "we're hurting and we caused some of this pain ourselves."

They have indirectly done just that. John and Patsy have openly stated that they have made mistakes and in hindsight, would have done some things differently. Of course, they were never specific about what mistakes they made or what they would have done differently.

It's the RST who won't admit the Ramseys made mistakes or SHOULD have done things differently. They will state that the only thing that should have been done differently was the parents sleeping too soundly or other such nonsensical statements.

There are none so blind.........

 

[Toth]

I have been informed that John Ramsey has expressed privately an opinion that the BPD should have been more insistent on an interview on the first day and could merely have advised him that it was important to get his memories immediately.

It should be remembered that at all times John Ramsey was talking to the police and responded to all questions they chose to put to him during the early hours of the case. Including questions during the taking of dna samples and even when they went to the police station in reference to a matter involving Pasta Jay.

Ofcourse, they could have had their interview within a week if the BPD had merely agreed to come to the attorney's conference room, remain seated, keep voices down, make no interruptions, and have Patsy's doctor there. I beleive one of the requirements (it might have been a suggestion) was that all questions seeking information be asked prior to any question that was accusatorial or implied any parental involvement being asked. (This was sought so that the interview would proceed without any undue emotional strain being added to Patsy Ramsey's already fragile state). Some may view these requirements/suggestions as "unacceptable" but all that really means is the BPD did not want to do it.

 

[Toth]

That is rather unlikely. The criminal lawyers knew that the parent's innocence was irrelevant. Indeed they were repeatedly telling their clients that there being innocent was meaningless; that the BPD and DA had targetted them and that if they spoke to the BPD, the BPD would not then look elsewhere but would simply use everythign that was said in their continued campaign to jail the only targets the BPD were interested in or were ever going to be interested in. It was the relatively naive John Ramsey and later the extremely naive Patsy Ramsey who simply did not believe this and wanted the interviews to take place. Patsy Ramsey even directly called the BPD and thus angered all their criminal lawyers.

 

[Barbara]

Oh Toth, what a sense of humor :laugh:

I have been informed that John Ramsey has expressed privately an opinion that the BPD should have been more insistent on an interview on the first day and could merely have advised him that it was important to get his memories immediately.

It should be remembered that at all times John Ramsey was talking to the police and responded to all questions they chose to put to him during the early hours of the case. Including questions during the taking of dna samples and even when they went to the police station in reference to a matter involving Pasta Jay.

Ofcourse, they could have had their interview within a week if the BPD had merely agreed to come to the attorney's conference room, remain seated, keep voices down, make no interruptions, and have Patsy's doctor there. I beleive one of the requirements (it might have been a suggestion) was that all questions seeking information be asked prior to any question that was accusatorial or implied any parental involvement being asked. (This was sought so that the interview would proceed without any undue emotional strain being added to Patsy Ramsey's already fragile state). Some may view these requirements/suggestions as "unacceptable" but all that really means is the BPD did not want to do it.

I refuse to believe anyone other than the Ramseys REALLY believes this. And even then, I'm not so sure the Ramseys themselves believe this.

Allright, I'll repeat myself for the umpteenth time:

WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO BE ASKED AT ALL?
WHY WOULD THE POLICE MEET ANY CONDITIONS SET IN A MURDER INVESTIGATION?
PATSY RAMSEY'S FRAGILE STATE? WHAT ABOUT JONBENET'S STATE?
WHY WOULD THERE BE ANY EMOTIONAL STRAIN? THE RAMSEYS WEREN'T EVEN ANGRY AT THE MURDERER, ACCORDING TO THEM. :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

For Pasta Jay, they made their way to the police station but not for JonBenet?

Yeah, okay...........

 

[Barbara]

That is rather unlikely. The criminal lawyers knew that the parent's innocence was irrelevant. Indeed they were repeatedly telling their clients that there being innocent was meaningless; that the BPD and DA had targetted them and that if they spoke to the BPD, the BPD would not then look elsewhere but would simply use everythign that was said in their continued campaign to jail the only targets the BPD were interested in or were ever going to be interested in. It was the relatively naive John Ramsey and later the extremely naive Patsy Ramsey who simply did not believe this and wanted the interviews to take place. Patsy Ramsey even directly called the BPD and thus angered all their criminal lawyers.

Naive John Ramsey? Oh please!

Funny, how they picked and chose when to listen to their lawyers. However did they decide when to do what?

Toth, you should do stand up! My goodness, is someone paying you for this?

 

[Toth]

Toth, you should do stand up! My goodness, is someone paying you for this?

No, but feel free to send a check to your favorite charity.

 

[Barbara]

No, but feel free to send a check to your favorite charity.

I always do Toth. Usually my biggest charities are the Humane Society and ASPCA, and other animal charities but second to that is the INNOCENCE PROJECT!, believe it or not. I also send donations to Veterans' charities. They may not be large donations, but every dollar helps

 

[Nehemiah]

They have indirectly done just that. John and Patsy have openly stated that they have made mistakes and in hindsight, would have done some things differently. Of course, they were never specific about what mistakes they made or what they would have done differently.

It's the RST who won't admit the Ramseys made mistakes or SHOULD have done things differently. They will state that the only thing that should have been done differently was the parents sleeping too soundly or other such nonsensical statements.

There are none so blind.........

Good point, Barbara. Maybe I am seeing this as the Rs' attitudes, when it is really just the RST, inlcuding their hired hands (Wood, et al....)

 

[Toth]

Up until noon on the 26th, the ONLY thing the parents had done wrong was sleep too soundly. NOTHING else.

Now when told to search the house, should they have refused and insisted the police do it? I don't know.

Should they have hired lawyers? Yes. Clearly.

What did the Ramseys do wrong?
Blew their tops a few times during the questioning.
Trusted the BPD too much.

I can't see much else. Really!

 

[Barbara]

I can't see much else. Really!

I know Toth, what a shame

 

[BlueCrab]

Now when told to search the house, should they have refused and insisted the police do it? I don't know.

Toth,

If your six-year-old child was missing from her bed would you search the house for her, including the basement? Of course you would.

The Ramseys say they didn't search the basement. Common sense tells us the Ramseys searched the house, and if they searched the house then they found JonBenet long before placing the 911 call.

The Ramseys inadvertently admitted it during the 1998 interviews: "We were all screaming as John came up from the basement" (paraphrased).

JMO