Reasonable Doubt

[jeepgirlva]

the first phone call asking for Tony's phone number along with Cindy's 3rd 911 call will make it difficult for any jury to NOT convict her.

Does anyone know did she ever talk to Tony? ...If i was on the jury i could convict her from the 911 calls and the first call home from jail you hear no urgence in her voice at all about Caylee ..now you do hear it when she is trying to get Tony's # ...

 

[krimekat]

Does anyone know did she ever talk to Tony? ...If i was on the jury i could convict her from the 911 calls and the first call home from jail you hear no urgence in her voice at all about Caylee ..now you do hear it when she is trying to get Tony's # ...

The only thing I can remember is Clint (TonEs old roomie until 1 July) said they BOTH have distanced themselves from the Fusion crowd & Casey during his interview with Greta OTR

 

[kgeaux]

I also think Baez and company think the public from which a jury will be selected is stupid!

As far as I'm concerned in order to propose arguments of "reasonable doubt" one would at least have to have a REASONABLE accounting/time line of what REALLY happened!

NOTHING I have heard from ANY of the Anthony's is the least bit REASONABLE to consider. Even before Cindy started flapping her gums, the sheer FACT that Casey did not report her daughter missing for at least 31 DAYS, is a huge red flag, and casts the most reasonable doubt in my mind that she is innocent!

I don't think the defense attorney wishes to have jurors who are stupid. He will wish to have jurors who know that everything they've heard on tv is not necessarily true; he will want jurors who will come to the trial with a blank slate and make a decision as to guilt or not based ONLY on the evidence presented.

Having said that, I will certainly agree that what we've heard from the crimetainment shows and family members make Casey seem guilty of SOMETHING. Whether she murdered the child, is attempting to cover up an accidental death, or sold her baby on the black market, she certainly seems guilty of something. The prosecutor just needs to find out WHICH scenario is most likely and somehow gather evidence that amounts to more than what they seem to have available to them today.

 

[Vegas Bride]

What kind of juror is the defense going to look for? Could any mother sit on that jury and think she's innocent when she did nothing to look for her missing 2 year old for a month and then when she's found out, refuses to talk?
As a rule, I do believe women can "see through" other women easier than a man can. It will be very interesting to see how many women will be on that jury.

VB

 

[Hisimage]

But, there is actual evidence she is guilty of what?

Was she negligent? Did Caylee die in a hot car? Or fall in family pool?

Did she deliberately kill her daughter because Caylee was an impediment to a relationship with Anthony Lazzaro? Or to get even with her mother?

Did a stranger find Caylee sleeping in the car while Casey partied, molest her in a dark parking lot and then stuff Caylee's body in the trunk? (kind of like the prosecutorial theory in the Jon Benet case)

At this early point in the case while evidence is still out to be brought in that COULD pinpoint WHAT happened, the state isn't going to be rushed into filing charges.

We all know Casey is guilty of something, but I am not sure how the state is going to PROVE a case when they don't yet know what the something is.

MOO

I was watching NG the other night and the woman who was filling in for her quoted Casey as saying she did not report Caylee missing because "theyre going to try to pin this on me". The substitute for NG said something to the effect of that proves her guilt. My question is: What is the "This" they are trying to pin on you? I don't get why that question wasn't addressed.
Did anybody else notice this ?

 

[Fandy]

Casey stated this in one of her early phone calls. She was speaking to Christina or Lee...

(I am starting to memorize the phone calls i've heard them so much on TV)....I liked the wording another poster used "Crimetainment"..it's so true

 

[Jolynna]

What kind of juror is the defense going to look for? Could any mother sit on that jury and think she's innocent when she did nothing to look for her missing 2 year old for a month and then when she's found out, refuses to talk?
As a rule, I do believe women can "see through" other women easier than a man can. It will be very interesting to see how many women will be on that jury.

VB

For sure Casey is a bad mother and was obsessed with TonE.

There may be evidence Caylee's body was in the bad trunk.

I think it would be easy to find a jury to convict Casey of those things.

But, who here can convict Casey without ANY doubt of deliberate murder? Look at the pictures of Caylee and Casey together... Who can say, after looking at the happy pictures, this mother planned to kill Caylee and that it was not an accidental death?

What if Caylee's body offers proof of homicide?

Now there isn't enough evidence to prove that. But, if investigators are patient, there COULD be. That LE doesn't want their investigation to be rushed doesn't mean they don't have anything.

In my opinion, it means they believe there is more out there to get.

I am very sorry to say, I think it is too late to save Caylee. It is not too late to see that she gets full justice though.

IMO

 

[LI_Mom]

But, who here can convict Casey without ANY doubt of deliberate murder? Look at the pictures of Caylee and Casey together... Who can say, after looking at the happy pictures, this mother planned to kill Caylee and that it was not an accidental death?

At first glance, the pictures APPEAR to show a loving mother, I agree.

When we stop & think about Casey & her 'history' we realize...

How long does it take to snap a photo.... it's easy to look happy for a split second.

What would the pictures show IF Casey was a REAL full time mother & not just a fill in when she wasn't off having fun with her friends?

Having a cute kid is a real attention getter.... it's a positive as long as your friends are still cooing over the kid.... what happens when having a toddler around starts to make your friends feel self-conscious about their own behavior... they're young & single & want to have fun.

Are they going to be relieved when they hear your daughter is with her grandmother or off with some 'babysitter?'

Is it important to you that you still fit in with the gang... even though you have grown up responsibilities that cut into your fun time?? What do you do?

 

[Luzer]

What kind of juror is the defense going to look for? Could any mother sit on that jury and think she's innocent when she did nothing to look for her missing 2 year old for a month and then when she's found out, refuses to talk?
As a rule, I do believe women can "see through" other women easier than a man can. It will be very interesting to see how many women will be on that jury.

VB

I feel that whatever happened to Caylee was at the hands of Casey, but without a crime scene showing major blood loss, a body with trauma, or something like that, I do not see how I could be able to rightfully convict for anything other than negligent homicide or a manslaughter.

If the trunk evidence comes back showing Caylee's DNA from the cadaver fluids, then it would prove Caylee has died. It would not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, how she died. If she died from a hot car, accidental drowning, or something else, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, homicide or manslaughter.

When I listened to the phone calls, Casey sounded like one of the coldest, self-centered people around. I justl don't think that would be enough to convict her of 1st or 2nd degree murder. I would need proof of trauma. And, without trauma, I would have to go for a lesser charge of homicide.
Hopefully, LE will take their time to build up very substantial evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a murder was committed.

 

[LI_Mom]

I feel that whatever happened to Caylee was at the hands of Casey, but without a crime scene showing major blood loss, a body with trauma, or something like that, I do not see how I could be able to rightfully convict for anything other than negligent homicide or a manslaughter.

If the trunk evidence comes back showing Caylee's DNA from the cadaver fluids, then it would prove Caylee has died. It would not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, how she died. If she died from a hot car, accidental drowning, or something else, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, homicide or manslaughter.

When I listened to the phone calls, Casey sounded like one of the coldest, self-centered people around. I justl don't think that would be enough to convict her of 1st or 2nd degree murder. I would need proof of trauma. And, without trauma, I would have to go for a lesser charge of homicide.
Hopefully, LE will take their time to build up very substantial evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a murder was committed.

Scott Peterson would have loved to have you on his jury.

But I hear what you're saying & don't disagree. Let's hope LE has a strong case that will put her away for a long, long, long time at the very least. (If she's guilty)

 

[s1rebecca]

Please listen to all 3 911 tapes in their entirety. They tells the whole story. She concocted this story because her mom was putting her away and taking Caylee. She said right to her on the 1st call in the background if this is how its going to be, you will never see her again. Listen real close.

 

[Luzer]

Scott Peterson would have loved to have you on his jury.

But I hear what you're saying & don't disagree. Let's hope LE has a strong case that will put her away for a long, long, long time at the very least. (If she's guilty)

Laci Peterson's body had cracked ribs, plus all of the missing body parts, and with that I could believe enough trauma was inflicted to cause death. So, I would have found Scott guilty.

I have lived with a sociopath, also, and I know how they act and what they are capable of. In my heart, I feel that whatever happened to Caylee was at the hands of Casey. But our court system requires proof to convict, not emotions. If we only needed emotions I would be the first to cast a guilty vote.

Again, this is my opinion. I am stating what I feel at this time concerning reasonable doubt for this situation.

 

[kgeaux]

If the trunk evidence comes back showing Caylee's DNA from the cadaver fluids, then it would prove Caylee has died. It would not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, how she died. If she died from a hot car, accidental drowning, or something else, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, homicide or manslaughter.

Is anybody else starting to get worried about the evidence from the trunk? I'm thinking it would not take very long to determine if any DNA in the trunk belonged to Caylee, and not much more than two seconds to determine if any fluids came from a cadaver as opposed from a living person.......I'm starting to wonder if there IS any evidence from the trunk that will give prosecutors a hand-hold to base charges on.

 

[JBean]

Is anybody else starting to get worried about the evidence from the trunk? I'm thinking it would not take very long to determine if any DNA in the trunk belonged to Caylee, and not much more than two seconds to determine if any fluids came from a cadaver as opposed from a living person.......I'm starting to wonder if there IS any evidence from the trunk that will give prosecutors a hand-hold to base charges on.

Hi Kgeaux. I think it is either exculpatory or culpatory but nothing in between. I think the pendulum is going to swing to one end or the other on this.

 

[Luzer]

Is anybody else starting to get worried about the evidence from the trunk? I'm thinking it would not take very long to determine if any DNA in the trunk belonged to Caylee, and not much more than two seconds to determine if any fluids came from a cadaver as opposed from a living person.......I'm starting to wonder if there IS any evidence from the trunk that will give prosecutors a hand-hold to base charges on.

I am holding on to the hope that LE is not going to release the findings until they need to. They aren't required to release their finding, I don't think.

 

[impatientredhead]

I feel that whatever happened to Caylee was at the hands of Casey, but without a crime scene showing major blood loss, a body with trauma, or something like that, I do not see how I could be able to rightfully convict for anything other than negligent homicide or a manslaughter.

If the trunk evidence comes back showing Caylee's DNA from the cadaver fluids, then it would prove Caylee has died. It would not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, how she died. If she died from a hot car, accidental drowning, or something else, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, homicide or manslaughter.

When I listened to the phone calls, Casey sounded like one of the coldest, self-centered people around. I justl don't think that would be enough to convict her of 1st or 2nd degree murder. I would need proof of trauma. And, without trauma, I would have to go for a lesser charge of homicide.
Hopefully, LE will take their time to build up very substantial evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a murder was committed.

Casey's refusal to help with the investigation and not reporting it (laid against a backdrop of Fusian pics and witnesses saying she never said a word and was happy as could be) will go towards aggravating circumstances, and without a cause of death will be used to show intent/malicious will. If the forensics can prove Caylee was in the car I think you have a real shot at murder one.

 

[Luzer]

Casey's refusal to help with the investigation and not reporting it (laid against a backdrop of Fusian pics and witnesses saying she never said a word and was happy as could be) will go towards aggravating circumstances, and without a cause of death will be used to show intent/malicious will. If the forensics can prove Caylee was in the car I think you have a real shot at murder one.

I hope so. If the judge says that can be considered, I certainly would.

 

[panthera]

I was thinking that reasonable doubt can be established based on the fact that the car was out of her possession for weeks a few weeks. Other people had access to that car when it was in the tow yard. One of those people could have used the car to move a body, then there's the decomp smell. Something from the car could have been removed and put in the yard so there's the explanation for the hit in the yard.

To me, that speculation still wouldn't take away from the lies Casey told LE, photographed out partying and her not reporting Caylee missing. Evidence from the car, imo, would be considered as a bonus if I were on a jury. MOO

 

[ketel0ne]

Reasonable doubt.

Bounty Hunter Leonard Padilla has been on every show he can be on all night including Greta. In each of these shows, what could be the "new" defense story had started to blossom via Leonard's casual remarks. The following assumes you know several things about this case thus far before reading further:

1. Who Casey called that wasn't a family member on June 16th (3 friends)
2. Where some of those people may have been or are at the present time (Georgia and Puerto Rico)
3. Which of these people are or were former law enforcement

In nearly every interview Leonard Padilla gave this evening, those pieces of information relate directly to the statements he made about what he believed may have happened and why he thinks Caylee is alive. As Casey's attorney Jose Baez said last night on Greta, the explanation of why Casey did not report Caylee missing for 31 days "would be covered in his opening statement" -- we think Leonard gave mondo hints about what that statement might contain tonight. For example:

• Leonard said that he believed Casey gave her to a "friend" (who isn't the Gonzalez chick Casey named long ago) for a couple of days who didn't bring her back
• He alluded to "Georgia" and "Puerto Rico" as where folks could be who have or have had Caylee
• Jose's co-council Mike Walsh said in an MSNBC interview a couple weeks ago that one of Casey's closest friends "had mental issues"
• Casey doesn't trust law enforcement

The allusion here is that one of the 3 friends would still have Caylee. (In weaving this tale, all defense parties involved would have to completely discount the car and it's contents - which we believe they have done for a while). In a murder or manslaughter defense to cast reasonable doubt, those friends would need to have an alibi for some period of time on June 16th when Caylee went missing. God forbid any of those people babysat Caylee on that day, or even just saw Casey and Caylee together that afternoon of June 16. Start thinking about it, folks. We can see this one coming, and why shouldn't we? Casey's been in jail for a month and had lots of time to create a new drama. This time though, it's going to affect people around her who DO know her.

 

[NighTillDawn]

Laci Peterson's body had cracked ribs, plus all of the missing body parts, and with that I could believe enough trauma was inflicted to cause death. So, I would have found Scott guilty.

I have lived with a sociopath, also, and I know how they act and what they are capable of. In my heart, I feel that whatever happened to Caylee was at the hands of Casey. But our court system requires proof to convict, not emotions. If we only needed emotions I would be the first to cast a guilty vote.

Again, this is my opinion. I am stating what I feel at this time concerning reasonable doubt for this situation.

I'm not defending Scott P by any means, don't get me wrong, but he was also convicted without real proof of anything ( crime scene, blood evidence, etc ), and yet he sits on death row at San Quentin. What makes Casey so special? Scott P lied, Casey lied. Laci was missing, Caylee is missing. What is the difference between the two cases? A body...In Scott's case they waited for remains of Laci and Conner to wash ashore, and in this case Caylee has yet to surface. Also, Laci was an adult, Caylee is a child. What did Caylee do, get into an argument with Casey and run away? I doubt that one.

raying: for Caylee