I was wondering how on earth anyone could claim ironclad evidence also. Even a note is not ironclad. The only ironclad evidence I can think of is if there is a video, they can prove Rebecca sought out info on how to commit suicide this way, and so on. I could buy suicide if there were extenuating circumstance like she was threatened or berated so badly she thought her future was over (and I don't mean her future with Shacknai). But I can't buy that she committed suicide in this way unless someone is going to claim they suggested she do it like this or some other very creepy Hitchcock like psycholgical torture.
Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #7
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I was wondering how on earth anyone could claim ironclad evidence also. Even a note is not ironclad. The only ironclad evidence I can think of is if there is a video, they can prove Rebecca sought out info on how to commit suicide this way, and so on. I could buy suicide if there were extenuating circumstance like she was threatened or berated so badly she thought her future was over (and I don't mean her future with Shacknai). But I can't buy that she committed suicide in this way unless someone is going to claim they suggested she do it like this or some other very creepy Hitchcock like psycholgical torture.
9/1 FOXNews: Police to Release Results of Investigation Into Woman's Death at CEO's California Mansion
The results of an investigation ... will be released on Friday ...
Until then question remains: Was it a suicide or homicide?
http://us.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=26048&content=55918992&pageNum=-1
The results of an investigation ... will be released on Friday ...
Until then question remains: Was it a suicide or homicide?
http://us.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=26048&content=55918992&pageNum=-1
TGIRecovered
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I voted that LE will probably call Rebecca's death a suicide. I do not agree, but they aren't going to consult with me!
I do still hold out hope that the Power Point could be used to illustrate exactly how the child fell down the carpeted stairs and ended up brain-dead. Maybe they are being extra careful in order to put an end to any speculation that anyone else in the home caused his fall.
If the Power Point is being used to describe only one of the deaths in great detail, the other death could still be a homicide. I am assuming that LE would not be going in to great detail about a homicide, in order to avoid future problems once a suspect is arrested and tried.
I do still hold out hope that the Power Point could be used to illustrate exactly how the child fell down the carpeted stairs and ended up brain-dead. Maybe they are being extra careful in order to put an end to any speculation that anyone else in the home caused his fall.
If the Power Point is being used to describe only one of the deaths in great detail, the other death could still be a homicide. I am assuming that LE would not be going in to great detail about a homicide, in order to avoid future problems once a suspect is arrested and tried.
coastal
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Here's another local story about tomrrow's press conference:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/01/coronado-mansion-death-investigation-results-be-re/
Findings in Shacknai mansion death out Friday
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/01/coronado-mansion-death-investigation-results-be-re/
Findings in Shacknai mansion death out Friday
I appreciate your point of view although I have these problems with the perspective:
1. LE, political powers, other legal powers and such may have been scrupulous and realized they were not going to be able to arrest AND convict anyone of a murder AND they do not want an unsolved/undetermined case given the wealth of the area and the attention given this case. Therefore, what is the only other conclusion, the easiest conclusion they can put forth?
2. I could see suicide under the extreme circumstance you outline and resulting degrading/debasing of Rebecca if it weren't this method (in it's entirety which includes far more than hanging oneself)
3. All hits are not clean. If you look at Eastern European Organized Crime, you see this. Or other groups. But also I believe certain hits are meant to be confusing as they do not want them to look like a hit. I was in Mexico once and the person that was killed was left along side the road, the car was burned out and their horse was murdered also, still left with a rope around it's neck pulled behind the car. This is obviously left as a message, but I wouldn't call it clean. We tend to think sniper and one bullet to the head. Not true. You can hire a murder to look like anything. Not saying anyone did in this case, just that it's true.
askfornina
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upon further reflection i think this will be ruled a suicide. i hope i am wrong, but i am willing to hear them out and see what evidence we are presented, and make my judgement then on whether or not it was ruled suicide for nefarious reasons. we have been given very limited information so far. hopefully a lot of questions will be answered tomorrow. i have a lunch appointment tomorrow at the same time this is happening, i will have to be following on my phone. i'll have to watch the press conference later. ughh!
Why do you ask?
sdcali
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The only suicide scenario that makes any sense would come from the notion that RN WAS directly 100% responsible for MS' fall and that it occurred through behavior clearly prohibited by JS (i.e.,horseplay in the house). Maybe it was something she thought was okay and let MS participate when JS was not home.
The following is fiction--but in my imagination, a scene I could see playing out.
It's late. RN has just finished talking to her sister on the phone. She wishes her sister were closer to be with her. The next call is from JS. His voice is full of anger and pain. Max is dead! You killed him! He yells over her apologetic pleas. He is distraught, calls her names, rages obscenely, tells her she is the one that should be dead, not his son. He threatens her and hangs up on her.
In that moment of darkness, RN believes her life is over. Her family is so far away, she has no job, no ability to travel to Missouri...she has nothing. She has lost everything she dreamed of attaining. The man she loved, the family she had devoted herself to, a new status, wealth, priviledge. Gone.
Broken down and rejected, she begins to sob. The house is dark. It's late and she is alone in the house. Barefoot and clothed in only a short, silk bathrobe, she blindly goes through the house and garage gathering together anything she can find, a scarf JS had given her, some rope, an orange electrical cord and begins to attempt to tie her hands and feet, wailing, berating herself and sobbing.
The robe gets in her way and she flings it off, leaving it puddled on the floor. She catches her reflection in the large mirror over the dresser and picks up the vase of arranged flowers on the dresser and throws them into the mirror, shattering the vase and cracking the mirror. Flowers, water and pieces of broken glass cover the area rug on the floor.
She cinches the scarf around her neck, but the scarf will not stay tied to the rope. Instead of taking it off, she leaves it around her neck and loops an end of the rope to make a noose around her neck. She ties one end of the coil of rope to a dresser leg and goes to the balcony, fumbles to tie her hands together. Still sobbing she wipes her nose with the back of her hand and sits down to tie her feet together. She slips her bound feet through her hands, stands and backs up to the balcony railing and holding it, swivels her lithe body onto the top of the balcony railing.
For a moment she sits perched, balanced precariously. JS' voice and accusations echo in her head, her vision is blurry from her tears as she lifts her face up, closes her eyes and releases her grip on the railing.
I still am not in the suicide theory camp, but thought I would give it a go and see if I could make it a plausible scenario...
The following is fiction--but in my imagination, a scene I could see playing out.
It's late. RN has just finished talking to her sister on the phone. She wishes her sister were closer to be with her. The next call is from JS. His voice is full of anger and pain. Max is dead! You killed him! He yells over her apologetic pleas. He is distraught, calls her names, rages obscenely, tells her she is the one that should be dead, not his son. He threatens her and hangs up on her.
In that moment of darkness, RN believes her life is over. Her family is so far away, she has no job, no ability to travel to Missouri...she has nothing. She has lost everything she dreamed of attaining. The man she loved, the family she had devoted herself to, a new status, wealth, priviledge. Gone.
Broken down and rejected, she begins to sob. The house is dark. It's late and she is alone in the house. Barefoot and clothed in only a short, silk bathrobe, she blindly goes through the house and garage gathering together anything she can find, a scarf JS had given her, some rope, an orange electrical cord and begins to attempt to tie her hands and feet, wailing, berating herself and sobbing.
The robe gets in her way and she flings it off, leaving it puddled on the floor. She catches her reflection in the large mirror over the dresser and picks up the vase of arranged flowers on the dresser and throws them into the mirror, shattering the vase and cracking the mirror. Flowers, water and pieces of broken glass cover the area rug on the floor.
She cinches the scarf around her neck, but the scarf will not stay tied to the rope. Instead of taking it off, she leaves it around her neck and loops an end of the rope to make a noose around her neck. She ties one end of the coil of rope to a dresser leg and goes to the balcony, fumbles to tie her hands together. Still sobbing she wipes her nose with the back of her hand and sits down to tie her feet together. She slips her bound feet through her hands, stands and backs up to the balcony railing and holding it, swivels her lithe body onto the top of the balcony railing.
For a moment she sits perched, balanced precariously. JS' voice and accusations echo in her head, her vision is blurry from her tears as she lifts her face up, closes her eyes and releases her grip on the railing.
I still am not in the suicide theory camp, but thought I would give it a go and see if I could make it a plausible scenario...
ladyofthelake
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So the media will ask the right questions....why do you ask?
Do you have a link for JS acting in such a manner? If not, this discussion is inappropriate.
Thanks,
Salem
babette_gladney
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Don't know if this has been posted yet (I took a quick look and didn't see it). Please see bolded paragraph with quote from TODAY from RN's sister. From today's San Diego Union-Tribune:
SAN DIEGO — The results of investigations into two deaths linked to an Arizona millionaire at the Spreckels mansion in Coronado will be released Friday, the Sheriff’s Department announced Thursday.
The body of Rebecca Zahau, 32, was found hanging naked and bound at the historic Ocean Boulevard mansion on July 13, two days after 6-year-old Max Shacknai was gravely injured in a fall at the house.
The home is owned by Jonah Shacknai, CEO and founder of Arizona’s Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp. Max, who died July 17 at Rady Children’s Hospital, was the son of Shacknai and his ex-wife, Dina.
Authorities said Zahau, Shacknai’s girlfriend of two years, and a 13-year-old female relative were at the home when Max was injured.
It was Shacknai’s brother, Adam, who discovered Zahau’s body hanging from an outdoor balcony at the mansion two days later. Her hands and feet were bound, leading to speculation about whether her death was a suicide or homicide.
Zahau’s sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner of Missouri, issued a statement Thursday saying, “We her family and friends do not believe it’s a suicide. There are still unanswered questions.
Adam Shacknai, of Memphis, Tenn., was the only one home when Zahau’s body was found, and he called 911.
The Sheriff’s Department led the investigation into Zahau’s death, while Coronado police handled Max’s case.
During past seven weeks, investigators have interviewed Jonah Shacknai, his brother, and ex-wife Dina, who was living near the Spreckels mansion when her son died. She also has a home in the Phoenix area.
The findings of the death investigations will be announced at an 11 a.m. news conference at the sheriff’s headquarters in Kearny Mesa.
Sheriff’s Capt. Tim Curran said that Gore will be accompanied by a panel of experts from the department’s homicide unit and crime lab; Dr. Jonathan Lucas, a county deputy medical examiner; and Coronado police Cmdr. Mike Lawton.
SAN DIEGO — The results of investigations into two deaths linked to an Arizona millionaire at the Spreckels mansion in Coronado will be released Friday, the Sheriff’s Department announced Thursday.
The body of Rebecca Zahau, 32, was found hanging naked and bound at the historic Ocean Boulevard mansion on July 13, two days after 6-year-old Max Shacknai was gravely injured in a fall at the house.
The home is owned by Jonah Shacknai, CEO and founder of Arizona’s Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp. Max, who died July 17 at Rady Children’s Hospital, was the son of Shacknai and his ex-wife, Dina.
Authorities said Zahau, Shacknai’s girlfriend of two years, and a 13-year-old female relative were at the home when Max was injured.
It was Shacknai’s brother, Adam, who discovered Zahau’s body hanging from an outdoor balcony at the mansion two days later. Her hands and feet were bound, leading to speculation about whether her death was a suicide or homicide.
Zahau’s sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner of Missouri, issued a statement Thursday saying, “We her family and friends do not believe it’s a suicide. There are still unanswered questions.
Adam Shacknai, of Memphis, Tenn., was the only one home when Zahau’s body was found, and he called 911.
The Sheriff’s Department led the investigation into Zahau’s death, while Coronado police handled Max’s case.
During past seven weeks, investigators have interviewed Jonah Shacknai, his brother, and ex-wife Dina, who was living near the Spreckels mansion when her son died. She also has a home in the Phoenix area.
The findings of the death investigations will be announced at an 11 a.m. news conference at the sheriff’s headquarters in Kearny Mesa.
Sheriff’s Capt. Tim Curran said that Gore will be accompanied by a panel of experts from the department’s homicide unit and crime lab; Dr. Jonathan Lucas, a county deputy medical examiner; and Coronado police Cmdr. Mike Lawton.
deanna82437
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I'm just being curious, but is AS in this photo?
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150141158806622.284813.120443706621
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150141158806622.284813.120443706621
"Retired San Diego police Det. Rick Carlson said suicide is a likely scenario. 'There has been no follow up investigations thus far, as far as a person of interest that has been presented to the public; I'm just merely speculating but those are my feelings,' said Carlson."
Quote from 10news.com story. Carlson seems to be source of the so-called "leak" that sherriff dept disclaims in press release. If not a suicide pronouncement, can only imagine it would be a case leading to JS, AS, or DS rather than some "unknown assailant" that could stir panic in the streets. Medicis stock down today; then again, so is Valeant.
Quote from 10news.com story. Carlson seems to be source of the so-called "leak" that sherriff dept disclaims in press release. If not a suicide pronouncement, can only imagine it would be a case leading to JS, AS, or DS rather than some "unknown assailant" that could stir panic in the streets. Medicis stock down today; then again, so is Valeant.
Links would be the ones posted multiple times previously of documented altercations between JS/DS. How is speculation that this same behavior manifested between JS and RZ inappropriate?
Carioca
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I believe AS is sitting to the right in the photo, wearing glasses, with a little boy on his lap.
My understanding was he's in the back row, third from the right.
Just a reminder of this about face.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...i-son-girlfriend-death-investigation-wrapping
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...i-son-girlfriend-death-investigation-wrapping
Carioca
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I thought front right due to the glasses but that was totally a guess on my part. Sorry about that. Back row, third from right? hmmm... interesting... What is the saying? Ah yes. A picture is worth a thousand words.
sorrell skye
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I think a determination of suicide will be announced. It was reported that the DA will not attend the PC. IME, the DA (or representative from the DA's office) in charge of a homicide investigation usually attends the initial PC. If a finding of suicide is announced, I hope the evidence supports the finding. Not that it matters one iota what I think, but I will need convincing.
I've never heard of LE using a Power Point presentation during a PC to discuss an active homicide investigation, nor to discuss an undetermined finding, which is why I think suicide will be the MOD that will be announced.
But now that I think about it, I've never heard of LE using a Power Point presentation to announce a finding of suicide, either. Has anyone else?
Power Point is an excellent tool to use when one is trying to *sell* something to a potential buyer, though. MOO
I'll be surprised if we hear that the MOD was a homicide, based on the format of the upcoming PC.
I'll definitely be watching tomorrow. I will keep an open mind.
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