Remains found confirmed as Jacob Wetterling/Suspect led LE to Remains #1

[OEJ]

As far as sadism, I think there is a difference in our everyday use of the word and the meaning of it as a distinct disorder. We might say that someone who is mean or hurtful to someone else and laughs about it is sadistic, but in terms of the disorder,, the person would be getting a sexual arousal from eliciting anguished cries of pain from another.

What I see in Heinrich is a more or less socially inept, frustrated and angry, continuously fantasizing, pedophile who didn't have the social skills to groom a victim. He was even having a hard time grabbing one. He tried different tactics in a clumsy way over time to get a boy to have sex with. He escalated the force in order to get one. But, it looks to me like Heinrich was super paranoid about getting caught. Something may have happened in his interactions with Jacob that made him feel he had no choice or he decided from the beginning that is what it was going to take to fulfill his fantasies and not get caught.

 

[Hope1974]

I understand there are lots of farms, but it just seems like more than a coincidence that he drove to specific farms, not just a nearby farm. He seems to have known those farms.

DH went from attacking boys "in town" -- between buildings, playgrounds, etc. to farms.

Also, there was another boy who was almost kidnapped when he had the van. Wasn't that after JS, before JW?

 

[human]

As far as sadism, I think there is a difference in our everyday use of the word and the meaning of it as a distinct disorder. We might say that someone who is mean or hurtful to someone else and laughs about it is sadistic, but in terms of the disorder,, the person would be getting a sexual arousal from eliciting anguished cries of pain from another.

What I see in Heinrich is a more or less socially inept, frustrated and angry, continuously fantasizing, pedophile who didn't have the social skills to groom a victim. He was even having a hard time grabbing one. He tried different tactics in a clumsy way over time to get a boy to have sex with. He escalated the force in order to get one. But, it looks to me like Heinrich was super paranoid about getting caught. Something may have happened in his interactions with Jacob that made him feel he had no choice or he decided from the beginning that is what it was going to take to fulfill his fantasies and not get caught.

Perfect explanation

 

[human]

Its a risk you sometimes have to take because now look what happened? He got away with it. Most people hate child molesters and there was other proof. He had pictures of random young boys in various states of undress. What man that does not have a sexual interest In kids keeps pictures like that? The fact he molested Jared wearing camoflauge and DH was in the National Guard is huge. He also had duck tape on his police scanner. I think there was enough there to prove they had the right guy. What was dh's alibi on what he said he was doing the night of JS assault?

It seems overwhelming with evidence but LE felt they did not have enough. They probably know what t takes to convict.

 

[DeeMarie]

[h=1]Paynesville Man Says Heinrich Attacked Him Too, Claims it Wasn't Investigated.[/h]
http://kstp.com/news/troy-cole-paynesville-assault-danny-heinrich-jacob-wetterling/4254339/?cat=1

 

[IBsleuthin]

I have mentioned other cases to demonstrate a point. Dru Sjodin was a capable, employed, sober student from a good family when she was abducted from a mall parking lot. I mention her to demonstrate the point that an 11 year old child cannot defend himself from an experienced predator. I mention Morgan Harrington to demonstrate that people, even children, can be forced to walk through a field to where the body is found. I mention the injuries to her body to demonstrate that neither compliance nor an instinct to flee can quiet the sadist - and I do believe that Heinrich looked for a masochist. If he couldn't find one, he probably chose a child.

The search warrant clearly reveals an escalation of deviant behaviour from Heinrich starting before the age of 18. He joined the military and committed the murder of Jacob during his tour. Russell Williams was the Colonel of the Canadian Army, having met the Queen of England, when he committed an escalating series of stalking, break-ins, assaults, and murders.

http://www.startribune.com/behind-the-person-of-interest-in-the-wetterling-investigation/364008661/

... the bigger picture

(BBM)

Often the, 'bigger picture' is constructed by standing way back and filtering out our own opinions and hunches.

Let's look at what you've highlighted here:

1). 11 year old children can and have defended themselves against predators. Everything in this life is a case by case scenario.

2). Quieting a sadist is an interesting and extremely complex statement. Sadism ranges in a dizzying array of degrees. To immediately associate sadism with death and murder is to not understand the sadist. Not all sadist kill and not all killers are sadists.

3). This is a very interesting statement. What would lead you to believe DH looked for a masochist? I had read that he was sexually molested by his mother's boyfriend.

4). Lacking a masochistic partner lead him to rape and kill a child? Again, interesting statement but I don't see the connection.

5). This is one of many posts I've read of yours that states this was a series of clearly proven escalation. To show escalation of behavior we have to be able to prove what the prior behavior was and then be able to prove a deescalation after that period of time. As of yet, we don't know everything there is to know about DH. This may very well have been A CYCLE of behavior for him.

As of this moment we do not know if this man killed other children. We simply do not. We don't know where he has been or stayed or vacationed in the last 26 years. People from the area claim to know his every movement but they sure didn't know he was busy in a farm field back in the 1980s. He could have EASILY traveled to other states and been gone for 2-3 days. Someone so obsessed with boys in this age group, someone who has actually acted out on those urges and KILLED, this is someone who would do it again only this time far away from where he was living.

Quite honestly if I were looking to correlate DH's behavior patterns with missing boys or just sexual assaults on boys in this age; I would look at his personal life and look for extended periods of high stress. Then I would go out from there to one state over from Minnesota. Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nebraska, the southern end of South Dakota. When you start considering the possibilities for that far of a range, then we understand how sick this person really is.

 

[Sigrun]

What compels someone to carefully bury a body within just 500 feet of a heavily traveled road and only 250 feet from the nearest structure? It was said to be over a mile from his mother's house which was located in-town. But to me it looks like it is literally in Paynesville itself. Was that farm a commercial farm with no residence, or was there a residence there? DH had few options regarding where to bury his victim (but a very large county in which to do it), so that it was on a farm doesn't surprise me given the nature of the area. These questions are why we need confirmed knowledge of where JS was attacked. It might hint at whether this burial site was planned or unplanned. If unplanned, it indicates the possibility that Jacob had a part in that decision. It looks unplanned to me, and a bad choice for the perpetrator.

As for an earlier post about an autopsy on bones, forensic examination of the remains and personal effects can tell us a lot but it might be months before we get those details. It can tell us if blood was drawn, if there was manual strangulation, blunt force trauma, bullet wounds, etc.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I think there's a good chance that Danny knew someone who lived at the farm where the body was found - perhaps a former classmate. Alternatively he was very brazen going to a nearby rural area and burying a body behind the trees.

He pulled his car to the January victim, asked him if he knew where "Kramer" - or something like that - lived. When the 12 year old child answered the question, he was grabbed an put into the car. He was told to cover his head with something, and to lie in the back seat of the car. The mention of the name Kramer was an obvious tactic that Heinrich learned to create a situation where the child was speaking to him, as though speaking to a parent, and he was hauled into the vehicle ... my opinion.

Hiding on the side of a rural road to capture someone is not that unusual. Sierah Joughlin was abducted from a road in the corn fields to a farm by a man who knew about farms.

If a body is found at an abandoned day camp, does that mean that the person had some involvement with those day camps?

I'm still catching up, so please forgive my confusion and question. Has it been revealed where Jacob was found? Was it a farm? A day camp? Have they revealed which one?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I was in HS and lived about an hour or so away from St. Joseph when this happened. I will never forget the impact that was felt by all of Minnesota. The impact this had on Minnesota and the upper Midwest was very similar to the 9-11 terrorist attacks that was felt by the entire country. Jacob has been a part of Minnesota for 27 years with songs on the radio, billboards, buttons, posters and most of all HOPE. JW's Grandfather lived in a nearby town and for over 20 years I would see him driving around town in his station wagon with his grandson's Missing Poster signs adhered to the windows of his car. Every time I would see his grandpa's station wagon with the poster my heart would sink and I would hope for JW and pray for strength for his family and loved ones. Jacob only had a short time here, but Jacob's light will shine bright on all of Minnesota for eternity.


http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/30/us/small-town-is-shaken-by-a-child-s-abduction.html

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115979,00.html

 

[IBsleuthin]

Exactly and that is why Jacob died. Not because he fought back, not because he tried to escape, not because he did anything to set DH off. Jacob died because DH was escalating his violence from fantasizing, to groping children, to kidnapping and raping children, to kidnapping, raping and murdering children. DH was having a bad year and he was a pedophile and a sadist who was escalating his crimes each time as is the usual pattern. DH was angry and felt out of control in his own life so he went out and found Jacob. He terrorized and then killed him. I think it's most likely Jacob died from blunt force trauma or strangulation or a combination of those two. I don't know if we'll ever know exactly how Jacob died and I'm not sure I want to know every detail.

(BBM)
I like this post very much because the more we say, "Oh Jacob fought back and that is why he was killed." the more that smacks of victim blaming.

The more statements like, "Jacob fought and the other kid complied." the more that smacks of victim blaming. It also, in my opinion can make those other victims that lived or escaped feel like they should have fought back, or whatever. They are victimized again and again the more the media and posters write comments like that.

The TRUTH is this was a very large extremely strong deviant of a man and the fact that any of them lived is something of a miracle.

Place the blame where it belongs, on DH.

 

[Sigrun]

I'm still catching up, so please forgive my confusion and question. Has it been revealed where Jacob was found? Was it a farm? A day camp? Have they revealed which one?

Organic family farm, been in business since the abduction, apparently.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm still catching up, so please forgive my confusion and question. Has it been revealed where Jacob was found? Was it a farm? A day camp? Have they revealed which one?

This article states is was on a farm in Paynesville: http://www.startribune.com/wetterling-suspect-leads-officials-to-unidentified-remains/392238471/#1
(bbm)

Danny Heinrich, a suspect first questioned shortly after Jacob’s disappearance and now in federal custody on child *advertiser censored* charges, provided investigators with the information that led to the boy’s grave, hidden on a Paynesville farm. At the time of Wetterling’s abduction, Heinrich lived in Paynesville, about 30 miles southwest of St. Joseph, with his father.

 

[Sigrun]

(BBM)
I like this post very much because the more we say, "Oh Jacob fought back and that is why he was killed." the more that smacks of victim blaming.

The more statements like, "Jacob fought and the other kid complied." the more that smacks of victim blaming. It also, in my opinion can make those other victims that lived or escaped feel like they should have fought back, or whatever. They are victimized again and again the more the media and posters write comments like that.

The TRUTH is this was a very large extremely strong deviant of a man and the fact that any of them lived is something of a miracle.

Place the blame where it belongs, on DH.

Interesting take. I didn't read it that way at all. To me, the accountability for this falls solely on DH regardless of what Jacob did or didn't do. My comments and thoughts on the case are based on what I think most likely happened, that's all. And if Jacob fought back, _good for him_. If he ran when the car slowed down, that was probably the smartest thing he could have done given his limited options. I won't second-guess his judgment, regardless of what he decided.

 

[OEJ]

Paynesville Man Says Heinrich Attacked Him Too, Claims it Wasn't Investigated.


http://kstp.com/news/troy-cole-paynesville-assault-danny-heinrich-jacob-wetterling/4254339/?cat=1

It's all Heinrich thought about day and night. I think it would be a good idea if law enforcement would warn the public when they start having these reports come in.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I have the same problem. Making correlations and patterns. It makes perfect sense to me but I think it is a way of looking at things that perhaps is not common to many. I am always surprised when people berate me for making correlations and patterns. It is nice to see someone else who sees the world in this way.

I think a lot of discoveries are made by people that see patterns.

People should NOT berate you for making correlations and patterns! Delete and block those people from your life! The next time someone does that to you, quote them the Random Chaos Theory. My opinion is that nearly everything in life is based on patterns and we often just can't gather in enough information at the time to make the correlations. It's there but we just haven't found all the pieces yet.

(BBM)

 

[Dogface]

Thinking about the Wetterlings today...wondering if they have spoke to DH, did he tell more about what happened or just the location? Can anything he said even be trusted? I can't help but think how hard it must be to have Jacob back, but still have to wait for them to investigate COD, etc. I feel so terribly for the people's who farm he was found on. Don't you know they have so many questions to how he got there, so near but concealed so carefully they never noticed anything amiss. That must be a horribly haunting feeling.

And ultimately, why? Why do people think they can harm someone else, much less a child? Why kill Jacob? How does one live with themselves, with such a horrid secret? I really want to know the hidden message, if there even is one, behind PW's statement that something "went wrong"....I mean it's obvious something went horrificly wrong, but I feel there is more to that.

 

[Ifollowthis]

What compels someone to carefully bury a body within just 500 feet of a heavily traveled road and only 250 feet from the nearest structure? It was said to be over a mile from his mother's house which was located in-town. But to me it looks like it is literally in Paynesville itself. Was that farm a commercial farm with no residence, or was there a residence there? DH had few options regarding where to bury his victim (but a very large county in which to do it), so that it was on a farm doesn't surprise me given the nature of the area. These questions are why we need confirmed knowledge of where JS was attacked. It might hint at whether this burial site was planned or unplanned. If unplanned, it indicates the possibility that Jacob had a part in that decision. It looks unplanned to me, and a bad choice for the perpetrator.

As for an earlier post about an autopsy on bones, forensic examination of the remains and personal effects can tell us a lot but it might be months before we get those details. It can tell us if blood was drawn, if there was manual strangulation, blunt force trauma, bullet wounds, etc.

View attachment 100769

I believe we know exactly where Jarods attack took place, near Richmond, there is a church on the property now, this has been discussed before.

I am wondering how he got to the property where Jacob remains were found, that used to be well travelled Hwy 23, I doubt he walked from the road and I doubt he drove through the farm site unless someone lived there at the time that he was very close to. Is that the case? Or is there another way to drive onto the property from the backside of the trees.

 

[Dogface]

People should NOT berate you for making correlations and patterns! Delete and block those people from your life! The next time someone does that to you, quote them the Random Chaos Theory. My opinion is that nearly everything in life is based on patterns and we often just can't gather in enough information at the time to make the correlations. It's there but we just haven't found all the pieces yet.

(BBM)

You should read the book Blink. It's all about how our brain utilizes patterns and expectations to make snap judgments and just how correct that judgment is.

 

[Sigrun]

I believe we know exactly where Jarods attack took place, near Richmond, there is a church on the property now, this has been discussed before.

I am wondering how he got to the property where Jacob remains were found, that used to be well travelled Hwy 23, I doubt he walked from the road and I doubt he drove through the farm site unless someone lived there at the time that he was very close to. Is that the case? Or is there another way to drive onto the property from the backside of the trees.

That location by the church was a rumor that I investigated some time ago. It might be true, but there is no source confirming it. I think the burial site is indeed odd, and yes, there is a service road to the right behind those structures.

btw: if the Church is where the attack occurred (it wasn't there in 1989) then I'd conjecture that Jacob's burial site was unplanned.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Heinrich is a sadist who attacked male children for his own pleasure.

"Investigators thought it probable the same man had abducted both Jacob and Jared, based on the crimes’ similarities, and saw Heinrich as “a likely suspect,” said Al Garber, the FBI investigator who supervised the Wetterling case, “so we investigated with everything that we could.”
...

One day, Heinrich invited Wall and her two sons, then about 11 and 14 years old, over to see the knife collection he had covering his walls. It was extensive. Machetes, swords, daggers. He chuckled about how he had been a suspect in the Wetterling investigation. “I remember that being kind of strange,” said Wall, now 51. “You’ve got all these knives and swords and now you’re telling us that you were a suspect in Jacob Wetterling’s abduction?”
...

State court records show no charges against Danny Heinrich for decades. That changed in 2015, after authorities matched Heinrich’s DNA to evidence found on the sweatshirt Scheierl was wearing during the 1989 assault. Investigators then searched Heinrich’s home, discovering computer folders and 19 three-ring binders containing child *advertiser censored* — the crux of the charges against him.
...

Heinrich sexualized the kids he filmed, zooming in on their buttocks and genital areas, the charges say. He baited newspaper boys, dropping coins on stairs so that he could capture them bending over to get them, according to the documents. Investigators also found four bins of boys’ clothing.

http://www.startribune.com/behind-the-person-of-interest-in-the-wetterling-investigation/364008661/

This is an excellent post and should be put on billboards and included in parent magazines across the United States.

We often simply cannot conceive of the idea that people like DH not only exist but that their intentions are FAR from obvious at the time.

This just screams at how truly sick DH is. He is absolutely obsessed with boys this age. This woman is LUCKY. Very, very lucky. to think that the whole time he was talking to her, the whole time he interacted with her, BEFORE she even knew he had seen her and her sons, DH was plotting to get close to her. Not for her but for her sons. Specifically the 11 year old.

Shocking. What a lesson.