Report on 911 tape

[Shylock]

Bonita Sauer, who copied BPD files while she worked for a "dream team" lawyer, had this to say:
...
The first words seemed to belong to the juvenile, and then Patsy is heard to say, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." The voice again appeared to be the "juvenile male saying, "Please, what do I do?'' Hickman and Roeder agreed to meet again in the morning to continue enhancing the tape.
...
The tape was then played for Hickman. After listening to the tape three or four times, Hickman heard John Ramsey say ?We?re not speaking to you?. In what sounded like a very angry voice. Patsy then says, ?Help me Jesus, help me Jesus,? and finally Burke is clearly heard to say, ?Well, what did you find??; with an emphasis on the word ?did.?

I believe Bonita has her sequence of events slightly wrong, which doesn't agree with Thomas' transcript of when John and Burke can be heard. (after Patsy)

Additionally, while everyone with a decent sound system on their computer can hear Patsy repeating her "help me Jesus" lines, nobody has been able to hear any voices in the background prior to that point.

 

[Tricia]

Here is what I think happened.

I wrote the D.A's office and asked how the tapes were copied.

Bill Nagle wrote back and said a cassette was made from the master tape. That cassette was then used to make other cassettes and CD's.

If you are copying anything on a cassette you must fast forward the cassette tape for a few seconds or you won't get the beginning of your recording. That's because cassette tape as "lead" (leed) tape that is clear and not meant to be recorded on.

Could be someone with a multi deck cassette player is making the copies of the tape. He starts the tape, the CD's and the cassettes at the same time. This person did not fast forward the new tapes. So we lose the first few seconds of the recording.

As far as the end of tape being different lots of reasons for this then again maybe not.

 

[Shylock]

Bill Nagle wrote back and said a cassette was made from the master tape. That cassette was then used to make other cassettes and CD's.

If you are copying anything on a cassette you must fast forward the cassette tape for a few seconds or you won't get the beginning of your recording. That's because cassette tape as "lead" (leed) tape that is clear and not meant to be recorded on.

Your idea about the tape "lead-in" would work only if multiple cassette decks were used to copy the tape and the one doing the recording was started after the other one began playing the master cassette. Modern dual cassette deck recorders start the cassettes at the same time, and since both cassettes have lead-in tape, nothing is lost.

That would explain why the version of the 911 tape released on cassette starts later then the CD version.

My guess is that to redact John and Burke's voice the cassette being recorded was just stopped short of the end of the tape, while the CD version had to rely on a blank gap that was created by the audio wire being temporarily unplugged. You just can't stop a CD that is being recorded anywhere you like. The CD has to be properly "closed" by the recording software or the CD will be useless.

Tricia, you should have written Bill Nagel back and told him you would like a copy of the original 911 tape that is NOT redacted and contains the 4-seconds of missing audio which was removed from the CD version. (I would love to hear how he dances around THAT one...LOL) Hey, maybe when you're in Boulder you can pick up a complete copy!

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Just as Lin Wood said, there is no "conversation" at the end of the tape between any 2 or 3 or more people.

If "Help me Jesus, Help me Jesus, etc" is on the tape is monologue, not conversation, and not relevant to anything except to show that Patsy (if it's even her voice) was extremely upset.

There's no conversation after Patsy hangs up between John, Patsy, or Burke. And that is what Lin Wood was emphasizing.

 

[Wrangler]

From the Dan Abrams show on July 17th Wood states,

"And when Michael Kane admits that there’s-quote-unquote - “something there”, that’s a word game. There’s something there after the phone hangs up. There’s about five or six seconds of noise. There’s no conversation there. It’s not Burke. It’s not John. It’s not Patsy. And that’s the lie that the Boulder Police Department told about this tape. "

He is the one playing with semantics here. He says no conversation, but what is conversation but the exchange of words. Patsy is clearly heard on the end of the tape.
He can try to twist things around but he fails IMO.

Again, here is what he said, "There’s something there after the phone hangs up. There’s about five or six seconds of noise."

Patsy crying "Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus," is just "noise"? His insinuation was that there was nothing but "white noise" at the end of the tape is the lie.
He is the one spinning the truth here. He, in essence, said that Mike Kane lied when he said there was "something there". There is! Patsy's very audible voice.

Either Wood lied, or he discounted Patsy's painful cries as nothing more than mere "noise" that meant nothing.

 

[Shylock]

If "Help me Jesus, Help me Jesus, etc" is on the tape is monologue, not conversation, and not relevant to anything except to show that Patsy (if it's even her voice) was extremely upset.

Not relevant? I think you LOVE playing mind games with yourself, LovelyPigeon. Here's how relevant it is:

Thomas told us the 911 tape contained background voices of Patsy, John, and Burke. Additionally, Burke's lawyer was given a copy of the 911 tape because people who appear before a Grand jury are allowed to see their previous statements. If Burke was not on the 911 tape, there would have been no reason to give his lawyer a copy.

Then, when Keenan releases copies of the tape, what do we hear? Patsy's voice (in what YOU call a"monologue") followed by a 4-second gap of silence, right where Thomas says John and Burke's voices follow Patsy's.

Well LovelyPigeon, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that we can be 99.9999% sure John and Burke's voices were blanked-out by that 4-second gap.

And if Burke's voice is on the 911 master tape, that means the Ramseys lied about what happened that morning--THAT'S RELEVANT!...even if they lied just because they didn't want Burke to be involved in anything. It shows they had a "game plan" in place before the police arrived. And it show they can't be trusted to tell the truth, and shouldn't be believed about other aspects of their story (like the pineapple they claim she didn't eat because she was asleep).

If I was a Ramsey supporter, I would seriously have to re-evaluate my belief in their total innocence because of the 911 tape.

 

[BlueCrab]

Burke's voice is on the 911 tape.

BPD detective Melissa Hickman and Aerospace Corporation engineers Mike Epstein and Jim Roeder heard it at El Segundo in California; BPD detectives and the DA's office heard it in Boulder; and the court heard it in Boulder.

The court heard Burke's voice on the 911 tape or it wouldn't have ordered Alex Hunter to turn over a copy of the tape to Burke Ramsey prior to his testimony in front of the grand jury. Colorado law allows any "prior statements" made by a witness to be turned over to him prior to testifying.

Those who say Burke's voice is not on the 911 tape are contradicting all of those people, including the court.

JMO

 

[Wrangler]

DA's office heard it in Boulder; and the court heard it in Boulder.

I don't believe that is accurate. Nowhere have I seen anything that states any official from the Boulder DA's office or the court (what court specifically) heard the enhanced copy of the tape.
If you can provide documentation of this statement I would appreciate seeing it firsthand.

 

[sissi]

I'm sorry Blue Crab,I've followed this case as thoroughly as anyone on this forum and nowhere is this information found. In Steve's book,he claims to hear this,yet even he doesn't go as far to state that anyone at aerospace heard anything,in fact,he was disturbed that the tape was going out for another enhancement because he knew it would soften his "false testimony" and make him look like an idiot. It was his interpretation ,listening to noise,that's all,just as there are those that hear the message in reverse speech,it was quite a LEAP!
IMO JMO based on facts

 

[Petronella]

The true content of the tape will be revealed at trial.

Until then, it is prudent to keep it under wraps.

 

[Wrangler]

IMO this case will never go to trial. Anyone who believes it will is just hoping for something that will never happen.

 

[BlueCrab]

I don't believe that is accurate. Nowhere have I seen anything that states any official from the Boulder DA's office or the court (what court specifically) heard the enhanced copy of the tape.
If you can provide documentation of this statement I would appreciate seeing it firsthand.

The judge would have been Roxanne Bailin, the judge who had jurisdiction of the Boulder grand jury at that time. She ordered Alex Hunter to provide Burke Ramsey with a copy of his previous statements prior to testifying in front of the GJ -- the 911 tape with his voice on it. If Burke's voice wasn't on the tape, Judge Bailin would not have ordered it to be turned over to Burke.

JMO

 

[Toltec]

Why would Burke's lawyer get a copy of the 911 tape if it was irrelevant to Burke's upcoming testifmony??? Makes absolutely no sense because the Ramseys claim that Burke was sleeping during the 911 call.

Can anyone give me a reasonable explanation why Burke was given a copy of the 911 tape by LE?

 

[Watching you]

I'm sorry Blue Crab,I've followed this case as thoroughly as anyone on this forum and nowhere is this information found. In Steve's book,he claims to hear this,yet even he doesn't go as far to state that anyone at aerospace heard anything,in fact,he was disturbed that the tape was going out for another enhancement because he knew it would soften his "false testimony" and make him look like an idiot. It was his interpretation ,listening to noise,that's all,just as there are those that hear the message in reverse speech,it was quite a LEAP!
IMO JMO based on facts

Actually, sissi, I have Steve Thomas' book right in front of me, and your facts are wrong. From ITRMI, p. 15:

In preliminary examinations, detectives thought they could hear some more words being spoken between the time Patsy Ramsey said, "Hurry, hurry, hurry" and when the call was terminated. However, the FBI and the U.S. Secret Service could not lift anything from the background noise on the tape. As a final effort, several months later, we contacted the electronic wizards at the Aerospace Corporation in Los Angeles and asked them to try and decipher the sounds behind the noise.

Their work produced a startling conclusion. Patsy apparently had trouble handing up the telephone, and before it rested in the cradle she was heard to moan, "Help me, Jesus. Help me, Jesus," Her husband was heard to bark, "We're not talking to you." And in the background was a young-sounding voice: "What DID you find?" It was JonBenet's brother, Burke.

The Ramseys would repeatedly tell us that their son did not wake up at any point throughout the night of the cirme. We knew differently.

Perhaps you could point out where it states that Steve was "disturbed that the tape was going out for another enhancement." What reasoning do you use to determine another enhancement of the tape would have disturbed him when you have nothing with which to back up your statement?

In fact, there were two people who took notes during that enhancement, and both wrote down the exact same words that they heard on the enhanced tape, independent from each other. To say no one from Aerospace heard anything when they are the ones who enhanced the tape is ludicrous. What do you think they did, stick cotton in their ears?

I too have been a student of this case since it began. You are dead wrong on this one.

BTW, I can hear Patsy Ramsey at the end of that tape saying Help me, Jesus, too. That isn't opinion. It's fact. And, I'm no idiot.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Burke Ramsey's lawyer would get a copy of the 911 tape just because someone claimed Burke's voice was on the tape. Burke via his lawyer would be entitled to have a copy on that basis, whether his voice was there or not.

Burke's voice isn't there.

Patsy saying "God" or "Help me, Jesus" (if that's her voice) isn't relevant to anything. She wasn't making conversation with John or anyone else when she made those statements. They were strictly rhetorical, and not unexpected under the circumstances.

It isn't as if Patsy and John didn't speak another word after the 911 call was finished. Of course they continued to talk to each other--and in the case of "Help me, Jesus" (if that's Patsy's voice) Patsy spoke aloud to her God.

 

[Shylock]

Burke Ramsey's lawyer would get a copy of the 911 tape just because someone claimed Burke's voice was on the tape. Burke via his lawyer would be entitled to have a copy on that basis, whether his voice was there or not.

Burke's voice isn't there.

Wrong LovelyPigeon. Burke would only be entitled to a copy of the tape if his voice WAS on it, and he was going to be ASKED about it.
If his voice wasn't there, it wouldn't be considered a "previous statement" and he would have no right to it.

You really spin the truth into anything you want, don't you. What if part of Patsy's recorded interview (which didn't contain Burke's voice) was played for Burke by the Grand Jury, do you think he would have been given a copy of THAT tape prior to his appearance? Get real.

 

[Shylock]

In Steve's book,he claims to hear this,yet even he doesn't go as far to state that anyone at aerospace heard anything,in fact,he was disturbed that the tape was going out for another enhancement because he knew it would soften his "false testimony" and make him look like an idiot. It was his interpretation ,listening to noise,that's all,just as there are those that hear the message in reverse speech,it was quite a LEAP!

sissi, it amazes me that you have the gall to even question anything Thomas says after posting some of the unadulterated crap YOU come up with.
Thomas wasn't worried about his "false testimony". He didn't even know if he would be testifying to anything.
The 911 enhancement was NOT Thomas' "interpretation". ALL (read it below!) the detectives heard the tape and they ALL were in agreement that Burke's voice was on it.

Even when the DA took the tape out for another analysis, that lab (los Alamos) also found a THIRD VOICE! You sure do want to ignore THAT fact, don't you sissi.
Who was the THIRD VOICE, sissi? Was it Burke, or did your big bad intruder stay for bacon and eggs with Patsy?....LOL

CrimeADM: "WAS that Burke's voice on the 911 tape?"

SteveThomas: "Re: Burke on the 911 tape -- the detectives are unanimous on that point, me included. We were not in some sort of great conspiracy."

imo

 

[why_nutt]

Wrong LovelyPigeon. Burke would only be entitled to a copy of the tape if his voice WAS on it, and he was going to be ASKED about it.
If his voice wasn't there, it wouldn't be considered a "previous statement" and he would have no right to it.

I tend to agree. After all, if simple accusations (that someone's evidence of presence was on an item of criminal evidence) are sufficient to get access to that case material, then by definition, the McReynolds, Chris Wolf, and everyone else suspect in the case ought to have access to the DNA reports because their DNA is, so to speak, accused of being present at the scene. And yet, this has not happened.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Burke was entitled to anything that was claimed by anyone to be a statement made by him. Any claim was enough for the judge to rule the tape turned over to Burke via his lawyer.

 

[Barbara]

Stop confusing the issue with FACTS. It is upsetting the RST.

Burke's lawyer would not be entitled to the tape, if there were no voices on it to be questioned about, according to some legal experts I asked. Of course, nobody can tell us about what the issue specifically was with his tape, but without this knowledge, the two people I questioned stated that there must have been a legitimate reason to believe it was Burke's voice on the tape if his lawyer received a copy (Of course, this is Boulder and Hunter's game, so we can't say for sure if it was obtained LEGALLY).

The reason given is that since Burke was testifying, they could play the tape and ask HIM if this was his voice.