Report on 911 tape

[sissi]

NO ONE HEARD BURKE! The rhythm suggested "I scream at you",just noise!
Saying Burke is as unfair as it is untrue!
JMO
I do not spin anything,I don't like fiction,never have,and find it repulsive when applied to the murder of this little girl. Steve ,and others who profited by her death with their lying and twisting the truth, makes me sick.
IMO

 

[Barbara]

Steve ,and others who profited by her death with their lying and twisting the truth, makes me sick.
IMO

I'd be curious to know what "others" who "profited" by her death you refer to. I sure hope it includes her parents, Jameson, Darnay Hoffman, Michael Tracey, Alex Hunter, Lin Wood, etc. They all continue to profit almost daily.

If your list doesn't include the above, then you are the unfair one. Either a person can profit or they can't, which is it?

 

[Spade]

1. Charlie Brennan- Took his salary from the Rocky Mountain News, plus $500/Week from the Star, plus $500/week from the Globe, plus a salary from Schiller, plus a share in PMPT.

2. Michael Tracey- The sale of 2 croks, plus AT LEAST 1/2 of the $40,000 grand SueSwamp conned from the Enquirer. (When Gentile OK'd the $40K payout to SueSwamp, the Enquirer had another copy of the transcripts sitting in its office FREE OF CHARGE)

3. LinWad- from the Epstein deposition:

"MR. WOOD: Hey, I made more money
handling the Ramsey case than you've made in
your whole damn career practicing law, Darnay."

4. Hal Haddon- If he ever collects, he will move to #1.

 

[Cherokee]

NO ONE HEARD BURKE! The rhythm suggested "I scream at you",just noise!
Saying Burke is as unfair as it is untrue!
JMO
I do not spin anything,I don't like fiction,never have,and find it repulsive when applied to the murder of this little girl. Steve ,and others who profited by her death with their lying and twisting the truth, makes me sick.
IMO

Sissi, your hatred of Steve Thomas is palatable, but it doesn't change the facts.

>"NO ONE HEARD BURKE!"<

No one heard Burke?

Evidence that others heard Burke on the 911 tape is posted on this very thread, and yet you scream the opposite?

04-27-2004, 02:47 PM Spade posted:

Bonita Sauer, who copied BPD files while she worked for a "dream team" lawyer, had this to say:

After re-listening to the recording of the 911 call made by Patsy in the early morning of December 26, detectives thought they could hear a conversation in the background while Patsy was attempting to hang up the phone. On April 21, Detective Melissa Hickman flew to Los Angeles to meet with Mike Epstein and Jim Roeder, engineers at Aerospace Corporation, for purposes of enhancing the recording of the 911 call received at the Boulder Regional Dispatch Center.

After listening to the tape three or four times, Hickman heard John Ramsey say “We’re not speaking to you”. In what sounded like a very angry voice. Patsy then says, “Help me Jesus, help me Jesus,” and finally Burke is clearly heard to say, “Well, what did you find?”; with an emphasis on the word “did.” After Hickman told the engineers her impression of the conversation, Roeder handed her a piece of notepaper containing the conversation heard by himself and his fellow engineer – the conversation as written down was exactly as Hickman herself had just heard.

Melissa Hickman, Jim Roeder and another engineer all heard Burke's voice on the tape at Aerospace Corporation. That's three people, Sissi, and that's NOT a figment of Steve Thomas' imagination nor a lie. That's a fact.

Boulder Police Department detectives (that's plural, not just one, not just Steve Thomas) thought they could hear conversation in the background of the 911 tape as Patsy was trying to hang up. You cannot pin this one on Steve Thomas as if he is the only one claiming there were other voices. No one associated with the BPD or the Boulder DA's office has disputed Steve's version of the enhanced tape. The voices are there, and they know it.

>"Saying Burke is [on the 911 tape is] as unfair as it is untrue!"<

Why is that unfair? His voice on the 911 tape doesn't automatically make Burke the killer of JonBenet. It doesn't make anything except his parents to be liars.

We have AT LEAST three other people saying Burke is on the 911 tape. Two of them worked for Aerospace Corporation, and they had no reason to say Burke was on the 911 tape UNLESS IT WAS TRUE.

Steve Thomas did not profit from JBR's death any more than her parents. He exposed the corruption in Boulder for what it was. He is no saint, but your continued villification of him only undermines your posted arguments in favor of the Ramseys. Shooting the messenger does not negate the message.

Nothing Steve said in his book has been refuted by documented evidence, nor contradicted by anyone in the BPD or DA's office. If his book was a pack of twisted lies, they would have been exposed long before now at the behest of Lin Wood and the Ramseys.

IMO

 

[sissi]

I believe I said "lying and twisting the truth". I was not happy when Jameson sold the tapes,however she added nothing to the content,the content was truth . It bothered me that they went to the NE because they DO have a "history" of editting and twisting to make of anything what they please.
I thought Darnay was outrageous yet I have never understood his motive,other than hoping for a "name and a buck",maybe he had none?
The "crocks" as you call them contain the facts as they appear.
Others have taken great liberties with "facts" and designed them to suit a hungry public . The nice wealthy family as killers was fodder and the public paid to eat this up. A killer is on the loose is far too mundane news to sell a book ,a mag or a tab.
I have no problem with those that really believe Patsy wrote the note,however I would like the truth to be told as to how many of the suspects had to be called back in for more samples,and how many scored as high. With this issue it's like one of those "problems" on a test where the only answer can be " not enough information to factor in to come to a conclusion". So honestly,I can say,I don't see it,don't believe she wrote it ,yet can understand if some do believe.
On most other issues,the beliefs of some are based on rumors and lies, provided in the early days by people we should have been able to trust.
I won't tell you what rumor I started,because it's unimportant,it was a chat mistake a few months after the murder,I was considering something as possible. Within days I heard my words elsewhere,I commented "where did you hear that",I was told "by a reliable source". It grew legs of it's own,it became a factoid that many were certain was true. How can I not believe much of what we believe started the same way,opinions that became "case facts".
IMO

 

[sissi]

undefined

Sissi, your hatred of Steve Thomas is palatable, but it doesn't change the facts.

>"NO ONE HEARD BURKE!"<

No one heard Burke?

Evidence that others heard Burke on the 911 tape is posted on this very thread, and yet you scream the opposite?

04-27-2004, 02:47 PM Spade posted:

Bonita Sauer, who copied BPD files while she worked for a "dream team" lawyer, had this to say:

After re-listening to the recording of the 911 call made by Patsy in the early morning of December 26, detectives thought they could hear a conversation in the background while Patsy was attempting to hang up the phone. On April 21, Detective Melissa Hickman flew to Los Angeles to meet with Mike Epstein and Jim Roeder, engineers at Aerospace Corporation, for purposes of enhancing the recording of the 911 call received at the Boulder Regional Dispatch Center.
Sissi (they thought they could hear a conversation..okay...so where did the FBI and the CBI come into this?)

After listening to the tape three or four times, Hickman heard John Ramsey say &#8220;We&#8217;re not speaking to you&#8221;. In what sounded like a very angry voice. Patsy then says, &#8220;Help me Jesus, help me Jesus,&#8221; and finally Burke is clearly heard to say, &#8220;Well, what did you find?&#8221;; with an emphasis on the word &#8220;did.&#8221; After Hickman told the engineers her impression of the conversation, Roeder handed her a piece of notepaper containing the conversation heard by himself and his fellow engineer &#8211; the conversation as written down was exactly as Hickman herself had just heard.

Melissa Hickman, Jim Roeder and another engineer all heard Burke's voice on the tape at Aerospace Corporation. That's three people, Sissi, and that's NOT a figment of Steve Thomas' imagination nor a lie. That's a fact.

Boulder Police Department detectives (that's plural, not just one, not just Steve Thomas) thought they could hear conversation in the background of the 911 tape as Patsy was trying to hang up. You cannot pin this one on Steve Thomas as if he is the only one claiming there were other voices. No one associated with the BPD or the Boulder DA's office has disputed Steve's version of the enhanced tape. The voices are there, and they know it.

>"Saying Burke is [on the 911 tape is] as unfair as it is untrue!"<

Why is that unfair? His voice on the 911 tape doesn't automatically make Burke the killer of JonBenet. It doesn't make anything except his parents to be liars.

We have AT LEAST three other people saying Burke is on the 911 tape. Two of them worked for Aerospace Corporation, and they had no reason to say Burke was on the 911 tape UNLESS IT WAS TRUE.

Steve Thomas did not profit from JBR's death any more than her parents. He exposed the corruption in Boulder for what it was. He is no saint, but your continued villification of him only undermines your posted arguments in favor of the Ramseys. Shooting the messenger does not negate the message.

Nothing Steve said in his book has been refuted by documented evidence, nor contradicted by anyone in the BPD or DA's office. If his book was a pack of twisted lies, they would have been exposed long before now at the behest of Lin Wood and the Ramseys.

IMO

I am certain you believe this and that you are an honest person.
I believe it is tripe,I ,too ,am an honest person.
BTW I do not hate Steve Thomas,I recognise he was ill,overworked and undertrained.
JMO

 

[Barbara]

I believe I said "lying and twisting the truth". I was not happy when Jameson sold the tapes,however she added nothing to the content,the content was truth . It bothered me that they went to the NE because they DO have a "history" of editting and twisting to make of anything what they please.

For the record:

Jameson also "edited" and "omitted" parts of what she sold. There were no tapes of the interview sold that included questions relating to Burke and friends. She claims that any part of the interview not sold were not important to the case. Now you may choose to believe the unsold interview parts were unimportant, but it is a clear omission and we don't know what other parts of the interviews were held back. So in this case, the NE wasn't the one doing the editing and "twisting". Either way, once I found out that the tapes were not sold in ENTIRETY, the NE book became another half told story.

Personally, I believe the parts UNsold to the NE probably contained some unfavorable Ramsey material

 

[Shylock]

NO ONE HEARD BURKE! The rhythm suggested "I scream at you",just noise!
Saying Burke is as unfair as it is untrue!

Yeah sure sissi...just like Patsy wasn't on the 911 tape before we ALL could hear her chanting. Some day the ENTIRE 911 call will be released to the public and we will ALL hear Burke's voice too.

crimeADM: "WAS that Burke's voice on the 911 tape? "

SteveThomas: "Re: burke on the 911 tape -- the detectives are unanimous on that point, me included. We were not in some sort of great conspiracy."

Your spin on the truth can't make up for the fact that, regardless of what they thought was being said, the Los Alamos lab found a THIRD VOICE on the tape.

 

[Spade]

IMO SueSwamp is not smart enough to "edit and omit" before selling to the NE. However, there is no doubt that the transcripts were editing prior to the sale in order to remove Q & A that placed the Ramsey's in a bad light.

The material SueSwamp sold for $40K was originally obtained by LinWad as part of discovery in the Wolf suit. He gave copies to Michael Tracey, who IMO is the most likely suspect to have "partnered up" with SueSwamp on the sale. We should also remember that at the same time Sueswamp was negotiating with Gentile at $40K, Darnay was trying to peddle "his" discovery to the tabs for $25K. It would be interesting to see if Darnay's copies were "edited".

 

[Spade]

The NE did receive unedited transcripts prior to the book's publication. The fact-checker who compared the 2 versions shared hir personal opinion that Jonbenet's death was caused by someone in her family.

 

[Barbara]

The NE did receive unedited transcripts prior to the book's publication. The fact-checker who compared the 2 versions shared hir personal opinion that Jonbenet's death was caused by someone in her family.

I guess the deal originally included no printing of certain content of the transcripts

IMO SueSwamp is not smart enough to "edit and omit" before selling to the NE. However, there is no doubt that the transcripts were editing prior to the sale in order to remove Q & A that placed the Ramsey's in a bad light.

The material SueSwamp sold for $40K was originally obtained by LinWad as part of discovery in the Wolf suit. He gave copies to Michael Tracey, who IMO is the most likely suspect to have "partnered up" with SueSwamp on the sale. We should also remember that at the same time Sueswamp was negotiating with Gentile at $40K, Darnay was trying to peddle "his" discovery to the tabs for $25K. It would be interesting to see if Darnay's copies were "edited".
Today 10:39 AM

I know the Burke details were edited out of the transcripts, but not much else. I also assumed Jameson edited the transcripts, not the acutal tapes. As far as the bargaining with Jameson and Darnay, it's a toss up as to who is lower. Disgusting!

 

[Babcat]

Just a couple of things...

Why does "Help me Jesus" implicate a person as a murderer? If it is on the 911 tape why does it mean anything?

"I scream at you" was heard as well and clearly is NOT on the 911 tape... since that is ridiculous and something no one would say because it makes no sense.

Weren't the police also sure they heard the Aisenbergs confessing to everything from baby murder to cocaine use? Yet an enhanced version of that tape produced absolutely no such conversation. Why would Maxi be certain no one would hear Burke's voice on an unenhanced version when the BPD clearly thought they had heard it. Why go to such lengths to enhance the tape if you didn't hear anything to begin with?

In the early 80s there was a hysteria produced when so many people were sure they heard Satanic messages in songs by popular rock bands from Led Zepplin to Stix. Those cryptic messages did not exist. But they were as real to those who bought into it as Jesus was dancing in the flames of the burning Beatle albums in '66.

If you are told what to listen for... you hear it. If you want it to be there badly enough you will hear it. MOST of the JBR case is based on some pretty bizarre imagination, and this tape is no exception.

 

[Britt]

Why does "Help me Jesus" implicate a person as a murderer?

It doesn't. But it does, in this case, expose a few liars, i.e. all those in the there's-nothing-on-the-tape camp. And if one is a true skeptic, one will certainly see red flags where liars dwell.

If it is on the 911 tape why does it mean anything?

See above reply.

Hey Babcat, nice to see you braving the JBR forum again.

 

[Babcat]

LP,

So, if kids killed JonBenet, just what would you expect Hunter and Kane to say? For instance, would they say:

"Well, the evidence is conclusive that children too young to prosecute murdered JonBenet. However, since Colorado law prohibits us from prosecuting them because of their ages and from saying who they were, you will just have to guess who they are."

Of course not. If children killed JonBenet, Hunter and Kane would say exactly what they did say.

JMO

This whole theory sort of flies in the face of Nathaniel Abraham being led into a courtroom in handcuffs, barely tall enough to see over the defense table yet facing his charges as an adult. And the murder of Ronny Greene was so much less intimate and brutal than the murder of JonBenet, and left much more room for reasonable doubt as to intent.

Across the country, regardless of individual state laws as to culpability of children at a given age, crimes committed by minors have always been equally reported as to the facts. There is never an effort made to protect the factual evidence that implicates a child whether the child's name is protected or not. And nearly NO high profile crime has ever sought to protect the identity of a juvenile OFFENDER... but only of a juvenile victim, regardless of whether formal charges are brought in the case.

The notion that Burke and any accomplice would not face ANY charges if found to be culpable of such a brutal assault is absurd. Perhaps he would face the charges in juvenile or family court. Perhaps he would never serve a day in custody. But he would be indicted just the same. And that decision would not be protected from press release.

 

[Shylock]

Why does "Help me Jesus" implicate a person as a murderer? If it is on the 911 tape why does it mean anything?

As Britt said, it doesn't implicate anyone. What it does, is prove that Steve Thomas' version of events is factual. His transcript includes "Help me Jesus" followed by the voices of John and Burke. WE can now hear "Help me Jesus" followed by a 4-second gap of silence. Logic dictates that DA Keenan redacted the voices of John and Burke for some legal reason before releasing the tape.

"I scream at you" was heard as well and clearly is NOT on the 911 tape... since that is ridiculous and something no one would say because it makes no sense.

That meaningless phrase was heard by the brother-in-law of the Asst. D.A. Hoffstrom. We have no idea what qualifications the man had or what he even really does for a living. But either way it doesn't matter. The fact is he also found a THIRD voice on the tape. So if the voice wasn't Burke, then the intruder stayed for breakfast with John and Pats. The point being that the Ramseys lied about what really happened that morning.

In the early 80s there was a hysteria produced when so many people were sure they heard Satanic messages in songs by popular rock bands from Led Zepplin to Stix.

When in fact what they heard was those rock bands having some fun with their public. I believe it was Led Zepplin who included the phrase "Thank you for buying this album" backwards in one of their songs.

Again, it matters NOT what is being said. YOU could listen to the original 911 tape and hear Burke say "potatoes and ice cream" or something just as meaningless. The fact that Burke's voice appears at all is what is important.

 

[BlueCrab]

The notion that Burke and any accomplice would not face ANY charges if found to be culpable of such a brutal assault is absurd. Perhaps he would face the charges in juvenile or family court. Perhaps he would never serve a day in custody. But he would be indicted just the same. And that decision would not be protected from press release.

Babcat,

Sorry, but you are wrong. In Colorado a child offender under the age of 10 who commits a major crime is fully protected under the Colorado Childrens Code. Even if it can be proven, it's a felony to publish his or her name as the perpetrator. Moreover, in the Ramsey case the court slapped a gag order on just about everyone and everything involved, reinforcing the Code shielding the identity of children under the age of 10.

JMO

 

[Watching you]

Babcat,

Sorry, but you are wrong. In Colorado a child offender under the age of 10 who commits a major crime is fully protected under the Colorado Childrens Code. Even if it can be proven, it's a felony to publish his or her name as the perpetrator. Moreover, in the Ramsey case the court slapped a gag order on just about everyone and everything involved, reinforcing the Code shielding the identity of children under the age of 10.

JMO

If this is the case, and if they are protecting Burke Ramsey, why are they continuing this farce of an investigation trying to pin it on the elusive intruder who never existed in the first place? It makes no sense. While the law might protect someone under 10, it does not allow a DA's office to frame someone else to protect the kid.

 

[Britt]

The notion that Burke and any accomplice would not face ANY charges if found to be culpable of such a brutal assault is absurd. Perhaps he would face the charges in juvenile or family court. Perhaps he would never serve a day in custody. But he would be indicted just the same. And that decision would not be protected from press release.

I don't know how LE would handle such a case in Boulder, but I agree it is absurd that a vast conspiracy would rise up to protect the Ramseys' good name or whatever.

On the other hand, Ramsey wealth and connections, fueled by Boulder weirdness, may've made absurd games possible.

However, IMO if a Boulder Ramsey-protecting conspiracy were in place, the Ramseys would've been removed from under that umbrella, officially and publicly, ages ago. That's the whole point of such a conspiracy.

 

[Ivy]

This is from Ryan Ross's Crime Magazine article on the case: (Ross is a Denver-based legal affairs expert.)

In Colorado, the issue is settled by law: No one under the age of 10 can be charged with any crime. They know not what they do, Coloradans have decided. If Burke is the killer, he's not — legally, anyway — a murderer, and JonBenet wasn't — legally, anyway — murdered. When Hunter said in 1999 that Burke wasn't a suspect in his sister's murder, he could also have said that from a legal standpoint Burke couldn't be. He was too young.

imo

 

[sissi]

Would ONE person who claims Aerospace "heard Burke"point me in the direction of a reputable source,please. I will even accept Steve Thomas,however read his words carefully before thinking he said it.
So far the sources have been "insider secretaries" ,"document prosessors" "reporters" etc.
On a side note,I believe Fox will fare just fine in the suit,because of our golden boy.
He stated in his book that Hunter said,"do you think it's the kid". As long as his words are there,Mckinley is safe IMO

I do not believe Burke killed his sister,actually find the idea more revolting than any of the theories ,but,if any minor child had,there would have been an announcement that the case was solved , the name of the perpetrator would be sealed under a provision of Colorado law that offers the protection of minors from criminal charges and grants them anonymity. No "dancing around" claiming the case isn't solved,no more money spent on dna testing and codis banking,it would be over.
Everyone would have to "guess" who the minor child was.
IMO