Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/15 thru 1/20 Break

[MeeBee]

It's an interesting working theory. However, I don't think women judge her MORE harshly because she is a woman. I do believe, we can identify and see through her bullchit more clearly than men can. I think I'd be just as intrigued if the same variables existed, but the genders were reversed.

That's a good point regarding my idea of why attractive killers are judged more harshly by the same gender. Could be because they are not swayed by the outward appearance and can see the person and their actions for what they are. The opposite sex may have trouble judging that person too harshly even in the event they can see them for what they are. The harsh judgment from the same sex probably has nothing to do with looks. I feel the same way about Andrea Sneiderman and she's no looker. With the opposite sex, there is usually an attempt to qualify it to somehow make them seem less monstrous than they are. But we all have our ways of viewing the world.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Gosh the human mind is sometimes hard to follow & understand and has made me curious since a teen. This woman is so so evil. Not that I fear her though, but anyone around her, heck yeah. Face it, most criminals are dumb, did too many drugs, raised poorly, beaten down etc... for sure. Jodi comes with many documented actions! Nothing sounds normal or true with her defense, to me. What's the chance JA wouldn't plot and scheme for so long again in prison, as she did with Travis, to not kill someone again. It just might take longer.

She plotted murdering Travis a long time before. Way more than a minute. Could be the next guard or whomever. jmo

 

[mydirtysecret]

Meebee, yes I have often theorized the same. I do believe there is a poetical probable psychosexual aspect in that men can be swayed by not only the attractiveness but the way atleast they perceive a feminine (attractive) women as delicate and warm making them unable to see past that. I actually have to start a research paper for my lifespan of human development class we get to choose ourb own topic. I was going to discuss jodi arias but I may narrow down my research to this. It'd be interesting to discover what the research says.

 

[neesaki]

‏@News20Chopper 52m52 minutes ago
Juror #3 breaks her silence to KFYI's Tammy Rose @News20Chopper. #JodiArias https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153595364389546&set=vb.537149545&type=2&theater …

"In writing it looks great.....until she talks. It is heartfelt for myself. I hope those remaining ( jurors ) feel the way I did", she told reporter Tammy Rose. She believes Jodi Arias will pay the ultimate price.

I can't remember which juror this is and why she was dismissed ? And when did she actually here CMJA talk ? Sorry for my confusion, I'm a little behind here and am trying to catch up. TIA

ETA: Oh wait, did CMJA do her "secret" testiphony while this juror was still on the jury ? I was thinking it was after she had been dismissed. Am I wrong ?

 

[RickshawFan]

I have a question.

Do y'all think some of the "Jodi is the most evil killer ever, like ever" has anything to do with her being female, even partially?

Now before people jump on this and react, just please stop and think about it.

My working theory (which may or may not be a very good theory), is that female killers are often judged harsher especially by other women. Not that male killers get a pass (I'm not saying that at all), but the level of vitriol seems greater towards a woman who commits a brutal killing and especially if she kills a man. I'm separating out children as victims because that's a whole other category and any adult who kills a child will be hated equally, I would think.

Women killing their own children are in a class of their own as far as being reviled. This goes way back to ancient times (think: Medea, although no doubt it went back way before). I doubt that women killers as a class get more vilified than men killers, but maybe the methods some women use are simply more sensational than men's or maybe the reasons women kill are slightly different from the reasons men kill, but enough different that the resulting murders seem extremely revolting (keeping in mind that almost all murders are revolting) or uniquely revolting. In JA's case, we're talking about a slaughter and not just a garden-variety murder, and that has to account for some of the great sea of vitriol. Plus, not too many women are going to be seduced by JA's sex wiles and give her bonus points for that behavior, so to most women, what she did is quite unadorned, unexcused, and blatant.

Then, there is the matter of defining what evil is.....

 

[MeeBee]

Meebee, yes I have often theorized the same. I do believe there is a poetical probable psychosexual aspect in that men can be swayed by not only the attractiveness but the way atleast they perceive a feminine (attractive) women as delicate and warm making them unable to see past that. I actually have to start a research paper for my lifespan of human development class we get to choose ourb own topic. I was going to discuss jodi arias but I may narrow down my research to this. It'd be interesting to discover what the research says.

I think we may not even realize it. Research has shown attractive tend to have an easier time in life in general. They are hired got jobs more, they're perceived better, they have an easier time in the work. We are not shallow, I think. It's biological. If you look at the cases that have really blown up, it almost always involves categorically attractive killers. Almost. There are sometimes other factors involved like the political aspects attached.

Even Travis' friends said yeah, she was a little creepy but we just let it go because she was hot. Would Jodi have been able to get away with as much if she wasn't pretty? Sociopaths tend to deduce early on when they are attractive and when they can use those looks to their advantage. It just becomes another tool. Even they know looks matter.

Now I'm off on a thing lol.

 

[MeeBee]

I can't remember which juror this is and why she was dismissed ? And when did she actually here CMJA talk ? Sorry for my confusion, I'm a little behind here and am trying to catch up. TIA

She is juror 3 from this trial. She heard Jodi's testimony. She was dismissed because of some issues with a prior record and she had a court appearance. Or something, it's sketchy.

 

[neesaki]

She is juror 3 from this trial. She heard Jodi's testimony. She was dismissed because of some issues with a prior record and she had a court appearance. Or something, it's sketchy.

Ok, I remember now, I just forgot she was still there during the testimony. Thanks, MeeBee

 

[daisydomino]

Yeah if I found it true it'd be interesting. I just don't see it. Go to any board of any killer here and they are getting pretty much the same treatment. As a I mentioned, on the Pistorius board it was even worse than it is here. Murderers tend to stir these things up in us. Seems a normal reaction to a perceived injustice.

I don't look at killers and say "well they only did this so it's not really as bad as those who have done this." That's such a minimalizing of human life, IMO. Even if you compare it to child killers. A life is a life, no matter what age.

With Jodi what I think does it for people is the depths of the lies she's told. Again, perceived injustices draw strong reactions from people and murderers do tend to be judged very harshly.

Dan Savage called her the "Kim Kardashian of cold blooded murderesses." Sadly, I think it's her eagerness for attention and willingness to go on camera with these crazy nonsense see-through lies that make her such a reality media attraction. Much to the "distress" of her attorneys, who shout "sex" and "*advertiser censored*" even when there isn't really any. Her social media supporters cause a third-ring spectacle every chance they get too.

Even my friends who watched the trial with me ask, "Is that STILL not done yet?" Her ratings are way down in the second series.

 

[krkrjx]

I'm not sure. There's this from 2012: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
Men Sentenced To Longer Prison Terms Than Women For Same Crimes, Study Says

There are some interesting links from this short article.

I think many people want to find excuses for why a woman commits a violent crime. Most violent criminals have been men but in recent years women's crimes are becoming more and more violent. Still, there are factions of society that believe when a woman kills a man he must have given her a reason--he had to have done something to make her do what she did. For some reason it's harder for many people to grasp that Evilness is a trait not limited to males. That causes people who do grasp the reality to shout louder and clearer that "she's the worst" or "she's evil and heartless and should get the death penalty" and so on.

I think those of us who readily accept that Evil comes in many forms have a need to try to convince the bleeding hearts that we must not cut a murderer more slack simply because she is female. Our society tends to want to do that; hence the shorter/lighter sentences often given to female offenders.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Travis had killed Jodi that fateful day, he would have been stewing on death row for at least a couple years already.

 

[NashBridges2]

Yeah if I found it true it'd be interesting. I just don't see it. Go to any board of any killer here and they are getting pretty much the same treatment. As a I mentioned, on the Pistorius board it was even worse than it is here. Murderers tend to stir these things up in us. Seems a normal reaction to a perceived injustice.

I don't look at killers and say "well they only did this so it's not really as bad as those who have done this." That's such a minimalizing of human life, IMO. Even if you compare it to child killers. A life is a life, no matter what age.

With Jodi what I think does it for people is the depths of the lies she's told. Again, perceived injustices draw strong reactions from people and murderers do tend to be judged very harshly.

For me, it's HOW she killed him, 3 times over. The crime scene photos, especially of him. The autopsy ones hurt me deep in my core.

 

[NashBridges2]

I think many people want to find excuses for why a woman commits a violent crime. Most violent criminals have been men but in recent years women's crimes are becoming more and more violent. Still, there are factions of society that believe when a woman kills a man he must have given her a reason--he had to have done something to make her do what she did. For some reason it's harder for many people to grasp that Evilness is a trait not limited to males. That causes people who do grasp the reality to shout louder and clearer that "she's the worst" or "she's evil and heartless and should get the death penalty" and so on.

I think those of us who readily accept that Evil comes in many forms have a need to try to convince the bleeding hearts that we must not cut a murderer more slack simply because she is female. Our society tends to want to do that; hence the shorter/lighter sentences often given to female offenders.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Travis had killed Jodi that fateful day, he would have been stewing on death row for at least a couple years already.

I agree completely. Had it been the other way around, this would have been over long ago.

 

[daisydomino]

Ok, I remember now, I just forgot she was still there during the testimony. Thanks, MeeBee

Whatever was going on with this woman—me, I feel that her personal life and whatever happened was none of my business and I have not sleuthed her at all, me. All I know is that she did her best giving up her daily life to do her civic duty. For keeping it mostly under her hat until the testimony was made public: respect.

 

[MeeBee]

Whatever was going on with this woman—me, I feel that her personal life and whatever happened was none of my business and I have not sleuthed her at all, me. All I know is that she did her best giving up her daily life to do her civic duty. For keeping it mostly under her hat until the testimony was made public: respect.

BBM: :clap:

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

On Wednesday July 25 2007 Jodi was in Palm Desert on her way to live in Mesa. She says she called Travis but he hadn't returned her call and it had been two and a half hours.

She goes on and on about trust, and why did she have to compete with other women and acts like everything is OK and their still an official couple. They had broke up around thirty days before.

 

[neesaki]

Whatever was going on with this woman—me, I feel that her personal life and whatever happened was none of my business and I have not sleuthed her at all, me. All I know is that she did her best giving up her daily life to do her civic duty. For keeping it mostly under her hat until the testimony was made public: respect.

Yes, agree daisy

 

[rose222]

I have a question.

Do y'all think some of the "Jodi is the most evil killer ever, like ever" has anything to do with her being female, even partially?

Now before people jump on this and react, just please stop and think about it.

My working theory (which may or may not be a very good theory), is that female killers are often judged harsher especially by other women. Not that male killers get a pass (I'm not saying that at all), but the level of vitriol seems greater towards a woman who commits a brutal killing and especially if she kills a man. I'm separating out children as victims because that's a whole other category and any adult who kills a child will be hated equally, I would think.

The reason we're here talking about this case during penalty phase # 2 is precisely because she is female; it is more difficult to sentence a woman to death. I couldn't care less about gender, sex and all the dirty little secrets that the Defense loves to talk about. The medieval sort of brutality is what drew me to this case. Arias deserves every bit of vitriol thrown her way and then some. I hope the jurors feel the same way.

 

[Val1]

The reason we're here talking about this case during penalty phase # 2 is precisely because she is female; it is more difficult to sentence a woman to death. I couldn't care less about gender, sex and all the dirty little secrets that the Defense loves to talk about. The medieval sort of brutality is what drew me to this case. Arias deserves every bit of vitriol thrown her way and then some. I hope the jurors feel the same way.

This and I also think, at least for me, part of it is that when someone who has JA's chameleon ability, sexual attractiveness(from all the accounts we've read), her ability to manipulate without conscience and definitely her pretty amazing memory, all added to what from all accounts was a pretty decent childhood and good support system(grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, siblings, lotsa men "friends", etc.) there was absolutely no reason in the world why she couldn't have really made something of herself but has instead chosen the path to where she has committed such a violent murder. Seriously, many people with horrible childhoods that had to resort to prostitution as a stepping stone to afford their education have risen above all the negatives to lead happy fulfilled lives. Sure they may suffer from regrets and I'm sure much heartbreak, but they choose to move on and up and leave the past where it belongs, behind them. That JA didn't and is now expecting a pass for it is a large part of why I want to see this through, TA, no matter what kind of relationship they had, did not deserve what she did to him and if the roles were reversed I would feel the same(ie.the "golden boy" defence of Pistorius).

 

[salberg7]

Thank you. To me, this reaffirms my belief that the DT had minimal trial experience prior to having this case assigned to them, although they both (JW/KN) are death penalty qualified attorneys. In reviewing sidebar conversations as well as Juan's objections during both trials, I have noted many occasions where the judge had asked JW to rephrase her questions correctly. Thus, the DT are essentially training on the dime of the taxpayers ie throwing out issues including many of their 17 silly motions to see what sticks. The one particular motion for prosecutorial misconduct that stood out as absurd was Juan signing an autograph outside the building. And unfortunately JSS has given them free reign due to the seriousness of the case.
I am hoping the retrial can move on with more expediency after JSS ' ruling on the 17 silly, frivolous, proven non issues including the dismissal of prosecutorial misconduct and, for goodness sakes, their own "expert" Smith stating on the record there was no *advertiser censored*. I don't see what else they can conjour up, but state this with much trepidation.
Let's hope JW & KN's gravy train runs out of steam and we can finally get Justice for Travis.
One thing that really, really irks me the longer this retrial goes on is the total disregard for the victim & his family. They too have a right to a fair & speedy trial to achieve justice for the murder of their loved one. I am a proud American & believe our system of justice is the greatest in the world, but I stand with Juan when he spoke of the victim's family rights in November reminding the Court that the Alexander's had rights too. That's why I wish JSS would have reigned in the defense antics more expediently. I do think, however, the Judge's hands have been tied to a great degree but this past week I have finally seen a method to her madness and have faith in JSS due to her decision on Wednesday. I think she has been fair to both sides.
Dragging the victim's character through the mud all these years makes me sick, though. That is noone but CMJA's fault and her objective from Day 1. Her DT has aided and abetted this as well. Why they acquiesced to that strategy I don't know, because it has backfired. Money perhaps? Is it that easy to sell your soul to the devil? Me thinks yes.

 

[salberg7]

My response was to T42 post # 595. Tried to respond with a quote but my tablet went wonky again.
Sorry!