Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 31

[MeeBee]

Since I'm already over the fence, might as well type out some of my other thoughts that have been bugging me today.

Michael Kiefer ‏@michaelbkiefer 37s37 seconds ago
Borderlines can keep emotions inside and then explode violently, DeMarte says.

Does the anger associated with the Borderline Personality Disorder, could it be so extreme, that it could have contributed to how she was able to slaughter him like that? Yes I know that having BPD doesn't automatically mean you're going to kill. But when you do kill, does BPD make the killing more anger-filled in a sense?

IF a juror tried to argue that as a mitigating factor I would plotz.

 

[GigiG]

Didn't they also say Dr D was totally incorrect with her BPD diagnosis? Are they going to thank her for it now seeing as they say it is mitigating?

Nurmi said in his opening that that jury would hear two doctors testify that CMJA has BPD and the only one who has is Dr D. Dr G went with bi polar based on things her friends and family said, not nothing he noticed.

So many of us here have conflated BPD and BiPolar. I'm wondering if Nurmi was/is trying to confuse the jury about the two things...

 

[WhoaIsMe]

Are there a typical set of instructions the jury is given when deciding sentencing? Or is it different for each case? In other words, do we already know what instructions they will receive?

 

[TexMex]

TA: Now my ex is in my email, I think.

RH: You need better passwords.

TA: She's probably reading this.

RH: Hi Jodi. Thi is Regan--we'e totally gonna do it...slashed your tires...she'd have to drive all the way to Utah

TA She would do it.

 

[PenElaine]

I agree I feel as if he thought he could quell the situation by giving her what she wanted.. "Oh Travis please, I miss you, I'm sorry can we just grind or be naughty for the last time..." MANIPULATION. With a stalker you cannot give into them by being passive or agreeing to anything they want. They will take this and run a football field with it. I dealt with a stalker in High School, started off innocently giving him my number he used to call continuously all day long non stop. I used to let the phone ring out and he would call back. When I started answering the calls and trying to reason with him he began to call more and show up at my house. He would sit outside my house all day long knocking. My mom was at work and I was home alone. He kept this up until I told my mother what happened. She had to call his mother to get him to stop and threaten with a restraining order. He stopped for a while and then started having other people call my house. Its a very scary feeling but when you give into them you encourage them. They cannot accept rejection, they don't respect boundaries. Its a lose lose situation to be in. Just the other day on facebook I saw him under the people you may know suggestion. Scared the daylights outta me. I don't think there's much he could do once she was fixated on him. Its really hard to understand unless you've been there.

Oh Tinka, I totally feel your fear and pain. Per my previous post, I have been dealing with similar circumstances for over 30 years. People have often asked why I have never taken out a restraining order but I truly believe that if I ever did anything to "cut him off" from my (perceived) friendship, he would do something horrifically drastic to me, my family, and/or himself. Even though he has never threatened me, his stalking behavior has instilled a sense of fear in me and for that reason, I feel like he has stolen a piece of my life. To this day, I remain cordial and polite, but deep down, I long for the day when I don't panic when I see a message in my inbox (and yes, I have changed my email addy countless times but he somehow always seems to find me....).

 

[LinasK]

Rabies is probably a bad example. But what if you had a dog that you know can never be trusted around other people? You can take steps to keep it away from others. And hope that it doesn't go after you when you are distracted. I'm cool with that.

Now, what if that dog does kill someone. Whatever precautions you took were not enough. To me, the only option is to put that dog down. I'm not a "life at any price" person. Given the choice if living in a cage for the rest of its life or humanely euthanizing it, the kinder way is to let it go.

I've experienced that situation in my neighborhood one year ago when two vicious Malamutes attacked my dog as I was walking her and nearly killed her in front of me! They also bit the pool woman 10 days later. They were deemed Vicious Dogs and must be locked up when guests are present and wear muzzles when they are out walking, but I saw the muzzles a couple of days ago, and they barely cover their snouts- thin pieces of mesh that don't cover their noses or jaws, yet the city deemed them okay, so I am still intimidated to walk my dog alone anymore, and she is a big dog!! I requested back then that the city ordered them to be put down, yet they weren't!
And rabies is not a bad example if you think of the movie Cujo- that St. Bernard was infected with rabies, that was the premise of the movie.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm going to assume DeMarte spoke to Darryl after the guilty verdict. I'm wondering if he testified the weird way he did and did the interview after due to fear of what Jodi would do to him if he told the truth about her.

And Matt? Was she threatening him, too?

Per the margin notes in the magazine, Matt told JA's lawyers the truth, I'll betcha! Is there any evidence he retracted it? Instead, he gets even more out of reach! Have JA's devotees maybe been threatening him on her behalf?

 

[My-Future-Ex-Husband]

I think THIS is what someone meant earlier about this "humanizing" JA. DeMarte has filled in the pieces of the puzzle as to how someone looking so meek is actually such a vicious killer. No one could ever figure out what to do with her, and she clearly needed professional help.

As I said in a separate post, if the defense had gone this route this would be over, she'd have LWP or LWOP and maybe getting the help she needs to become "normal".

The ultimate irony is that this is her one chance - and LKN is going to pull up H & J to say totdoc is an idiot.

Shouldn't she have been getting the help she needs since she was diagnosed? 2011 wasn't it? No excuse for her to say "not my fault" anymore IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

It really doesn't matter too much. The jury can consider a psychological disorder as mitigating evidence if they think that is appropriate. It's up to them.

Here's the beauty of the thing, at least IMO. Even if the jury does vote LWOP, JA will have lost. Completely. And she'll see it that way, no matter what she says.

If they vote LWOP it won't be because they believed a word she said. They won't believe she's a victim. Of DV or emotional violence. They won't believe Travis was an abuser, or a pedophile, or a bad person at all. They'll see him as the victim, not her.

If they vote LWOP it won't be because they feel the slightest sympathy for her, it will be because they either as a group believe she's too mentally ill to be given the DP, or because they can't sway one or two holdouts and don't want to hang.

No matter what the jury decides, imo, it will be a complete repudiation of her and what she's done to Travis. She's going to be "betrayed" by them.....

 

[MeeBee]

Jodi is the kind of person who will threaten suicide or maybe make a feeble attempt, like the razor nick for the attention and drama it commands, not because she wants to die. A person who really wants to commit suicide will find a way without calling attention to themselves, like Robin Williams, God Rest His Soul.

I mean she had the aspirin "to thin her blood." That would have been a lot less painful than the razor. The suicide attempt is drama. She doesn't want to die, she wants others to think she wants to die.

 

[mugwump*]

BPD can be managed to a degree with a therapy called "Dialectical Behavioral Therapy" (DBT); it takes commitment on the part of the BPDer, much like working a 12 step program.

BPD or no, Bipolar or no, Jodi had an obligation to manage her behavior! There are plenty of ways she could have addressed her problems, likely including medication and therapy. But did she do any of it? No! Adults have an obligation to mitigate if they are likely to hurt others. Totally, the ball was in JA's court to get help, and there were plenty of helpful resources available. But she made no good faith effort to do so.

Makes one wonder if the pamphlets for mental health were given to HER, and that infuriated her...

 

[Love Never Fails]

Nali,
i couldn't rest until I came back to say I am sorry for getting so frustrated and feeling you were jumping on me earlier. This trial gets to me and I feel so sorry for Travis that it is hard for me to feel anything for Jodi. But I don't want to get angry at anyone because they have a difference of opinion. Only God knows Jodi's heart. So at the end of the trial, I will accept what the jury's decision is. At least they now know most of what we know. Some days I have to walk away. This is one of those days.
Curious

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Didn't learn much new today. But there were a few new, text or conversations between TA and friends and him talking about JA still stalking him and that he was concerned she might kill herself. Also I believe he mentioned her tapping into his email and text, and/or other accounts knowing what he was doing, warning the female that JA might send her a email. (and she might be listening to them)
I like to be a straight shooter. My opinions may be different than some or most. I would have voted for LWOP the first go round and that is still where I am today. Nothing to do with this punishment retrial. I must say that there is a very good chance of JA having the verdict of DP. I also think that LWOP might be a worse punishment for her. JMOO>

Today raised some questions that I didn't have in the first go round. Because I didn't know of the conversations mentioned above it just seemed odd that TA would be complaining about JA but continue to have sex and phone sex with her. If I would have had some time lines maybe I wouldn't have questions. I hate Twitter Trial. LOL>
This didn't mean in any way shape or form that TA deserved to be murdered. Just thoughts I had. Moo

That is the way I feel. I have always wanted the death penalty for JA from the time I learned the facts of the case because she really deserves nothing less. LWOP would be too good for JA and would allow her to gather more enablers when she is put in GP at some point in time. After the last two days of testimony I am more convinced than ever before that she indeed deserves death. I hope the jury has the courage to give it to her despite her being a female.

This is truly one of the most macabre heinous murders I have kept up with in many years. Even to say it is overkill really doesn't define how evil and perverse it truly was. Unbelievable cruelty to the extreme.

Nothing changed for me concerning the BPD for Dr. DeMarte had already diagnosed her as having a BPD in the prior trial. As far as I can remember none of the prior jury bought the excuse she was mentally ill even though KN mentioned that in his closing........not even the ones that couldn't vote for death, iirc.

And of course most of us already knew about all of her other behaviors with past boyfriends so that wasn't a new revelation either. It was revealing though when DD put it altogether succinctly and revealed a picture of why she is so angry, aggressive, assertive, and dangerous.

Now all the smut that came in from her own family members against her was rather intriguing to say the least but not a shocker. I have always felt JA has put a lot of people through hell even from a young age and that seems to be the case and why no family member testified in her behalf.

 

[LinasK]

...let me add one more thing. She choose to murder Travis is a very personal heinous painful way....ala her favorite movies where the hero was some knife/sword wielding ninga. So she was not so far off with her ninga tale...as she was the ninga. REVENGE was the word. Revenge for daring to expose her to everyone and revenge for finally saying a definitive NO to her.

Hey, Bobby said she had a sword and martial arts training, and she "liked" MMA on her MySpace interests.

 

[AZlawyer]

Are there a typical set of instructions the jury is given when deciding sentencing? Or is it different for each case? In other words, do we already know what instructions they will receive?

Here's a redline of the most recent revisions:

http://www.azbar.org/media/58847/3-capital_case_instructions_revised_2013.pdf

Instructions for this phase begin on p. 30. The jury does not get to see all the little "notes" and case citations, though, and anything that is clearly irrelevant based on the evidence presented will be removed.

 

[Mindmatters]

restraining orders don't work.

True, and because a large segment of our society has been brainwashed to believe men can't or aren't victims of DV, partcularly the men themselves.

 

[Ranchgirl]

Now I finally see the puzzle put together. I was and am so frustrated that TA's reputation was put through the ringer during both phases. However, because the defense was allowed to do this, by JSS or Juan, Dr D can put all the pieces together now. It all make sense. Hopefully Juan alerted the Alexanders to this. The defense must have known what was coming. They saw all the texts and testimony from TA's friends. Maybe, they thought this was the only way to work with their client and at the same time save her life through Dr D? I still think their best strategy now is to have her allacute with remorse and let the BPD stand.

 

[elementary]

Yes. Unless JM shows me that people with BPD can somehow keep from doing things people with BPD apparently have no choice but to do: devaluing people, extreme emotions, etc.

They don't lead to murder for most people. Yes, she has a choice! She is not crazy.

 

[ICit]

I mean she had the aspirin "to thin her blood." That would have been a lot less painful than the razor. The suicide attempt is drama. She doesn't want to die, she wants others to think she wants to die.

If she had taken enough ibuprofen she would have damaged her liver so badly that there would have been nothing doctors could do to save her. She would not have been considered for a transplant because of her attempt. You are right! She was just doing this for attention.

 

[Soulsad]

I would hold every precious memory we shared together closely in my Heart as I cradled him/her in my lap as he closed his precious eyes for the last time; with the assistance of a caring Veterinarian. Then I would go home and kick myself for not having him/her vaccinated. It wouldn't be the animal's fault.

With Jodi, she had the choice for every action she took and yet chose to be brutal beyond my comprehension. For me her character assassination after the fact eclipsed by her seeming total lack of remorse makes the death penalty a very plausible option IMO

Would you want him to suffer - from petmed

Rabies is a severe, and often fatal, viral polioencephalitis that specifically affects the gray matter of the dog's brain and its central nervous system (CNS). The primary way the rabies virus is transmitted to dogs in the United States is through a bite from a disease carrier: foxes, raccoons, skunks, and bats. Infectious virus particles are retained in a rabid animal's salivary glands to better disseminate the virus through their saliva.

the following are some of the symptoms to watch for in your dog:

Pica
Fever
Seizures
Paralysis
Hydrophobia
Jaw is dropped
Inability to swallow
Change in tone of bark
Muscular lack of coordination
Unusual shyness or aggression
Excessive excitability
Constant irritability/changes in attitude and behavior
Paralysis in the mandible and larynx
Excessive salivation (hypersalivation), or frothy saliva