REVISIT Does LE have enough evidence to Convict Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

[Nore]

Zsa, I still think they were communicating through JB. It's hard telling what kind of story she has told her parents.

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I cant forget CA.saying to KC. What have you done? ~ this is in the early days,I will look for the page.

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Lee's taped transcript taken by Micheal Erickson. Page 11 and 12.

 

[RR0004]

I just respectfully disagree. Its not a logical conclusion when you haven't established the fact. If the hair was a piece of post mortem death band, that would be good enough. However we have not established that it is the post mortem death band. If the tape was a piece of an exact match, that would be good enoough, however, it does not match. It is not the golden gate bridge. If the vfa was a piece of bodily fluid, that would be good enough, however it is not a piece, it is not even established if it came from a human. If the adipocere like substance was a piece of actual adipocere, that would be good enough, but they have not concluded that it is actually adipocere let alone of human remains. The problem with your theory is that the pieces are questionable. So for me, that is not good enough. Not being snarky here, I respect your opinion, but I can't take pieces of the Brooklyn bridge and fit them with the Golden gate bridge. The adipocere like substance is the one that really gets me. That could easily be determined in a lab environment, but yet they fail to give us that information. There is no smoking gun here. I come to my opinion after reading all the documents in the case. So it is my interpretation of the facts and my opinion only.

Amazing though that all these little pieces are even present in one case with absolutely no connection to a murdered child. Boy, this must be the world's biggest coinkydink ever! JMHO

ETA: Oh and those dang cadaver dog hits! Let's not forget they have nothing to do with Caylee being in the trunk of her mother's car 'cause there are no dog experts out there who can rightfully say they were reliable hits...and no decomposition experts 'cause it was after all only a smell...so no "nose" experts there either. MOO

 

[RR0004]

Based on what we know now in evidence and depositions, etc., there has been lots of attempts to cover up Casey's acts, but nothing whatsoever to even begin to establish that SODDI or that it was an accident. There is no explanation for the 31 days, the decomp in the trunk and the duct tape. And there never will be.

This is not the OJ case. IMO, and I realize this may be deemed argumentative, but that case was lost because the SA spent too much time in front of the cameras showing off instead of paying attention to a very clever defense team. He was clearly guilty, but the SA was so sloppy, he walked.

What have we got here? A quiet, efficient SA team - who from what I can see have put together a mountain of evidence and conducted themselves well beyond reproach. The defense on the other hand, is disjointed, unorganized, under experienced, etc. etc. And Cindy and George don't believe it was an accident, why would a jury?

Walk? H*** No!

You're right...the defense has gone in so many directions...I don't see how they're going to slip that in. I wanted to think "accident" very early on...but once it was determined that Caylee was placed in the trunk I just couldn't. There would be NO reason...and I don't care if your mother is the Wicked Witch of the West...you wouldn't report an accident in which your own child was hurt, yet alone dead. Anyway, the duct taped clinched it for me. You plan that!

 

[LambChop]

Amazing though that all these little pieces are even present in one case with absolutely no connection to a murdered child. Boy, this must be the world's biggest coinkydink ever! JMHO

ETA: Oh and those dang cadaver dog hits! Let's not forget they have nothing to do with Caylee being in the trunk of her mother's car 'cause there are no dog experts out there who can rightfully say they were reliable hits...and no decomposition experts 'cause it was after all only a smell...so no "nose" experts there either. MOO

Oooohhhhh, is that why we have not seen the defense's experts examining the evidence? There is none. But KC was the last one seen with her daughter and isn't she responsible for her child and isn't it a fact that she refused to tell LE where her daughter was and her daughter's remains just happened to be found down the street from her home with items from the home with the remains. You're right, no evidence. So WHY are they holding her without bail????? Oh, she lied you say. Okay, that makes sense. JMO

Edit: Oh, dear, I've started talking to myself. This can't be good.

 

[AZlawyer]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I think I would try to keep it really simple for the jury and say, look, we might never know exactly what happened, but we do know this:

--Caylee was dead
--Casey knew Caylee was dead
--Casey was happy after Caylee was dead
--Casey did not want anyone to know Caylee was dead
--Casey especially did not want anyone to know how Caylee came to be dead

Circumstantial case of murder. All forensic evidence is frosting on the cake.

 

[RR0004]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I think I would try to keep it really simple for the jury and say, look, we might never know exactly what happened, but we do know this:

--Caylee was dead
--Casey knew Caylee was dead
--Casey was happy after Caylee was dead
--Casey did not want anyone to know Caylee was dead
--Casey especially did not want anyone to know how Caylee came to be dead

Circumstantial case of murder. All forensic evidence is frosting on the cake.

Keeping it simple...keeping it real...I like it!

 

[JBean]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I think I would try to keep it really simple for the jury and say, look, we might never know exactly what happened, but we do know this:

--Caylee was dead
--Casey knew Caylee was dead
--Casey was happy after Caylee was dead
--Casey did not want anyone to know Caylee was dead
--Casey especially did not want anyone to know how Caylee came to be dead

Circumstantial case of murder. All forensic evidence is frosting on the cake.

I like simple too.I like it a lot!

but do you think your simple outline proves premeditated murder?

 

[The World According]

UPDATED: Sources: Duct Tape Used To Murder Caylee
Anthony's Defense Says State Has No Definitive Proof Of Murder
POSTED: 10:30 am EST February 16, 2010
UPDATED: 5:48 pm EST February 16, 2010
<snipped>
According to sources, a strip of duct tape found on Caylee's mouth is one of three prosecutors believe were used by Casey Anthony to suffocate her daughter.

Anthony's defense maintains the tape is just a theory and the state has no definitive proof of the murder, citing that the state failed to find Anthony's prints on the duct tape. "The biggest problem for the defense is that there can never be an innocent explanation for duct tape being fixed on a child's face," Orlando defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.




Video: Sources: Duct Tape Used To Murder Caylee 2:34
http://www.wesh.com/video/22583754/index.html

Article:
http://www.wesh.com/news/22578816/detail.html
__________________

 

[AZlawyer]

I like simple too.I like it a lot!

but do you think your simple outline proves premeditated murder?

If you kill someone by accident, you are not happy about it.

 

[JBean]

If you kill someone by accident, you are not happy about it.

Well that is pretty simple right there now isn't it?

 

[ZsaZsa]

I haven't read all of this thread, but I think I would try to keep it really simple for the jury and say, look, we might never know exactly what happened, but we do know this:

--Caylee was dead
--Casey knew Caylee was dead
--Casey was happy after Caylee was dead
--Casey did not want anyone to know Caylee was dead
--Casey especially did not want anyone to know how Caylee came to be dead

Circumstantial case of murder. All forensic evidence is frosting on the cake.

One Blue Ribbon for Post of the Day coming your way!
Brilliant!

 

[denjet]

If you kill someone by accident, you are not happy about it.

That says it all!
... and people who ARE happy after the fact become murder suspects for that very reason ... and are often convicted

KC took it even further after the 31 days by her actions after being arrested and eventually jailed ... NONE of her actions are reasonable for a mother who's 2 year old has been murdered ... NONE

 

[BondJamesBond]

I like simple too.I like it a lot!

but do you think your simple outline proves premeditated murder?

I like AZ's logic. Extending to the uncertainty of a jury ...

If a dp jury had no more info than what we have today I'd give it a 20% chance of finding premeditated.

If stains on the carseat shoulderstrap can be shown to be decomp-related, duct tape as murder weapon, hence, that particular method of premed, gets tougher, IMHO.

There are plenty of blanks that could be filled in by yet-to-be-released results that would make premed 95%.

So, just for the sake of being argumentative...Casey could be happy with the outcome...even if it wasn't her initial objective. A basic WTH...response cosistent with the Tupac quote on Casey's laptop.

 

[JBean]

I like AZ's logic. Extending to the uncertainty of a jury ...

If a dp jury had no more info than what we have today I'd give it a 20% chance of finding premeditated.

If stains on the carseat shoulderstrap can be shown to be decomp-related, duct tape as murder weapon, hence, that particular method of premed gets tougher, IMHO.

There are plenty of blanks that could be filled in by yet-to-be-released results that would make premed 99%.

So, just for the sake of being argumentative...Casey could be happy with the outcome...even if it wasn't her initial objective. A basic WTH...response cosistent with the Tupac quote on Casey's laptop.

Haha I agree with your 20%. Which is why I currently lean towards s2nd degree or to aggravated manslaughter.
But even having said that, I think that while the ME could not state with medical certainty the COD on the DC, I do think she can testify with medical probability as to the cause of death. If and when she does that and if she says that it was most likely asphyxiation by duct tape, then I think premeditation will leap another 79%

>>The Florida
Supreme Court has held that "expert medical testimony as to the cause of death need not be
stated with reasonable certainty in a homicideprosecution and is competent if the expert can
show that, in his opinion, the occurrence could cause death or that the occurrence might have
or probably did cause death." Buenoano v. State, 527 So. 2d 194, 197-98 (Fla. 1988); see
also Butts v. State, 733 So. 2d 1097, 1101 (Fla. 1st DCA 1999).<<

http://www.romingerlegal.com/floridacourts/court_opinions2/5D03-1906.op.html

 

[knt]

If you kill someone by accident, you are not happy about it.

Great point! In fact, if you accidently caused someone's death, especially your own daughter's death, you would be devastated. The pain and self-blame would be unimaginable. On the other hand, if you had chosen to kill someone, well then, your plan succeeded, and now they're dead. Devastated - not so much. In fact KC's reaction very much mirrors countless other high profile murderers we've seen in the news, living it up after the crime. She's toast.

 

[butterfly1978]

I like AZ's logic. Extending to the uncertainty of a jury ...

If a dp jury had no more info than what we have today I'd give it a 20% chance of finding premeditated.

If stains on the carseat shoulderstrap can be shown to be decomp-related, duct tape as murder weapon, hence, that particular method of premed, gets tougher, IMHO.

There are plenty of blanks that could be filled in by yet-to-be-released results that would make premed 95%.

So, just for the sake of being argumentative...Casey could be happy with the outcome...even if it wasn't her initial objective. A basic WTH...response cosistent with the Tupac quote on Casey's laptop.

I disagree. Premeditation can happen in a second, and the killer (Casey) had more than a second to take and wrap three peices of tape around Caylees head.

 

[denjet]

I like AZ's logic. Extending to the uncertainty of a jury ...

If a dp jury had no more info than what we have today I'd give it a 20% chance of finding premeditated.

If stains on the carseat shoulderstrap can be shown to be decomp-related, duct tape as murder weapon, hence, that particular method of premed, gets tougher, IMHO.

There are plenty of blanks that could be filled in by yet-to-be-released results that would make premed 95%.

So, just for the sake of being argumentative...Casey could be happy with the outcome...even if it wasn't her initial objective. A basic WTH...response cosistent with the Tupac quote on Casey's laptop.

I tend to think premeditation is not that hard to prove in this case ... premeditation can take place in seconds before taking a life ... that combined with her elaborate lies about the nanny before and after Caylee's death and her actions after the fact are enough IMO to prove premeditation ...

 

[denjet]

I disagree. Premeditation can happen in a second, and the killer (Casey) had more than a second to take and wrap three peices of tape around Caylees head.

LOL ... I should have refreshed the page ...

 

[Aedrys]

All it's going to take is Casey giggling and laughing and fawning over Baez in court, totally oblivious and non-cariing about the trial and what's going on, and she will go down for premeditated murder. She has been way too happy and okay through all of this, and that is just not natural. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence on how depraved and uncaring she was towards Caylee alone that is going to get her LWOP at the very least.

And what was said earlier made sense. She would not be so happy and calm if she hadn't planned out Caylee's murder in some way. If it really was an accident, or something out of her control, she'd be a lot more nervous and unhappy. She knew what she did, she knew where she threw away Caylee, and she thought she'd live happily ever after. That's about the sickest thing I've ever heard of. And no jury, when they get info like that, is going to ignore it and think she's innocent in the slightest.

I still don't get why anyone wants to give her the benefit of the doubt when she was so happy and at peace because Caylee was no longer a part of her life. That's a HUGE red flag to me. Then again, I despise depravity, especially depravity towards children, especially by their own mother, and maybe that makes me biased.

 

[Nore]

:woohoo:

I just respectfully disagree. Its not a logical conclusion when you haven't established the fact. If the hair was a piece of post mortem death band, that would be good enough. However we have not established that it is the post mortem death band. If the tape was a piece of an exact match, that would be good enoough, however, it does not match. It is not the golden gate bridge. If the vfa was a piece of bodily fluid, that would be good enough, however it is not a piece, it is not even established if it came from a human. If the adipocere like substance was a piece of actual adipocere, that would be good enough, but they have not concluded that it is actually adipocere let alone of human remains. The problem with your theory is that the pieces are questionable. So for me, that is not good enough. Not being snarky here, I respect your opinion, but I can't take pieces of the Brooklyn bridge and fit them with the Golden gate bridge. The adipocere like substance is the one that really gets me. That could easily be determined in a lab environment, but yet they fail to give us that information. There is no smoking gun here. I come to my opinion after reading all the documents in the case. So it is my interpretation of the facts and my opinion only.

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There was adipocere on a few bones.Read the autopsy report,all the way down ~ there are many pages.