Routier case is the first for David Camm

[TellTheTruth]

Doesn't matter.

People kill without revealing their motive all the time.

It was a question for Madeleine who suggest they know the motive.

Just curious as to what it is.

 

[Madeleine74]

Rage, depression, and hating what her life had become, exacerbated by an ugly fight with Darin that night.

 

[TellTheTruth]

Rage, depression, and hating what her life had become, exacerbated by an ugly fight with Darin that night.

I've not read evidence of an 'ugly fight', can you point me in the direction of that?. I have to admit, the fact Darin drove Dana home (a round trip of 45 minutes) that night, considering she had been sleeping over for the majority of the the last 6 days does seem strange.

Slightly off topic, what I'm a little puzzled about at the moment is Darin and Darlie's fascination with what Darin was wearing as he came down the stairs.
It doesn't add up. Darlie wrote a ten page statement the day when she went to the viewing of her boys and within that she specifically states that that Darin came downstairs in only his pants and was wearing no glasses. Why go into that much detail? And why did Darin also comment in his statement? He mentioned taking his glasses off before he went to bed and then when he heard Darlie scream, he mentions he put on his glasses and his pants.
To see the whole statements in context, it makes no sense for BOTH of them to mention this fact in such detail.

When on the stand, Darlie spent the majority of the time telling Shook she couldn't remember anything after she woke up to find the 'intruder' walking away toward the kitchen. But she could remember what Darin was wearing (or not wearing).

The fact BOTH put so much emphasis on this suggests more than meets the eye to me. Why would they offer such information when it wasn't requested - or really in anyway relevant.

 

[Madeleine74]

Darin admitted to police in one of his interviews (and no, I don't know exactly which one) that he and Darlie had some kind of argument that night.

The evidence proves they were nearly 3 months behind on their mortgage payments, had just been denied a $5K loan, had a non-working Jaguar which required $$$ to repair, which meant Darlie had no car, and their boat also wasn't working and needed fixed. Darlie had been planning on a Mexican vacation with her girlfriends but then didn't have the money to go. She was terribly unhappy, had written what amounted to a suicide or pseudo-suicide letter in her journal a few weeks before, and things were not good in her world.

 

[TellTheTruth]

Darin admitted to police in one of his interviews (and no, I don't know exactly which one) that he and Darlie had some kind of argument that night.

The evidence proves they were nearly 3 months behind on their mortgage payments, had just been denied a $5K loan, had a non-working Jaguar which required $$$ to repair, which meant Darlie had no car, and their boat also wasn't working and needed fixed. Darlie had been planning on a Mexican vacation with her girlfriends but then didn't have the money to go. She was terribly unhappy, had written what amounted to a suicide or pseudo-suicide letter in her journal a few weeks before, and things were not good in her world.

This isn't true though. The statement found in Darlie's car showed two months in arrears and was contested by both of them that it was only one month (the letter was sent after a payment had been made). They had changed the way they paid the mortgage at this time and Darlie was now paying it from home rather than the shop.

The loan asked for capitol at the last minute and Darin didn't want to put anything up (asset wise) so he pulled out.

The jaguar needed a $3 pipe to be replaced.

Darlie and Darin had already got tickets for their vacation and Darin had $4,000 available in his business account, with clients owing around $20,000 in the upcoming months.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. I don't know if Darlie, Darin, both or neither did this crime but it's not healthy to throw internet rumours out for discussion. The more lazy 'sleuths' out there sometimes take out right lies as gospel.

 

[Madeleine74]

You asked what I thought Darlie's motive was. I gave an answer.

 

[TellTheTruth]

You asked what I thought Darlie's motive was. I gave an answer.

And I thank you for that, but it doesn't seem to be backed up by any evidence.

 

[Madeleine74]

And I thank you for that, but it doesn't seem to be backed up by any evidence.

Darlie was unhappy: suicide note.
Darlie/Darin fight or argument: Darin's admission to police
Routier boat broken: not contested
Routier mortgage late: at least 1 month
Routier Jaguar wasn't running: Darlie's narrative

This was their reality at the time regardless of how easy or hard it would have been to take care of their problems. It's about Darlie's mindset.

 

[TellTheTruth]

Darlie was unhappy: suicide note.

It wasn't a suicide note, it was a journal entry - if you are picking up on this one entry, why don't you also put forward the other ones where she suggests how absolutely in love with the children and her family she is?
She called Darin midway through the entry and Darin came home and they cried together and talked, hugged and got over it.
She wouldn't be the first woman (or man for that matter) to be a little depressed when looking after three boys. Gee, I get a little down with my one daughter sometimes!

Darlie/Darin fight or argument: Darin's admission to police

Again, I've not read (or heard) anything about this. He admitted to talking about bills (which was a daily occurrence) and suggesting the business was a little slow - but I can't find anything concrete in regard to an argument.

Routier boat broken: not contested

You're correct, not contested.

Routier mortgage late: at least 1 month

For the reasons I suggested above.

Routier Jaguar wasn't running: Darlie's narrative

Correct.

This was their reality at the time regardless of how easy or hard it would have been to take care of their problems. It's about Darlie's mindset.

I can't see how a broken down car and business being a bit slow equates to killing two of your own sons in such an horrific manner.

 

[Val830]

Rage, depression, and hating what her life had become, exacerbated by an ugly fight with Darin that night.

All of the above with a touch of PPD & adrenaline pumping from diet pills.

Seems like a classic revenge filicide case to me - which is much more common than any of us like to admit.

I believe the children were killed to teach Darin a lesson. Whatever they fought about that night filled her with so much rage that she killed the children to teach Darin a lesson.

My opinion only. And yes, I think Darin knew it as soon as he came down those stairs. His guilt over whatever he did or said to her that night is why he stood by her when it was so obvious she did it.

Purely opinion and speculation of course. The state couldn't exactly present this motive with Darin testifying that they had a perfect marriage and no problems. I think the states case has some truth to it, but it's extremely over-simplified.

 

[Madeleine74]

I predict the Routier case will be backed away from by the organization Camm has joined. Probably slowly & quietly. They are not going to spend $$$ investigating, they don't have the $$$ or the permission to retest everything, and other than trying to discredit the one dude who Camm has a grudge against, I don't think they'll get any traction.

 

[cami]

He's not a murderer though. He was, until he got found not guilty. No he is innocent.

I have an open mind to the Routier case. One day I am convinced she is an evil narcissist, then next day I think she is an innocent on death row.

If nothing else, her case needs to be investigated to the full.

It's not acceptable to have Texas denying their errors and putting people to death.

If she's guilty, lets see it proven beyond doubt.

There is no standard to prove "beyond doubt" the standard is "reasonable doubt" There will always, always be lingering doubt. i.e.

 

[cami]

I think you guys are missing the point here.

The case of Camm had sufficient evidence to warrant three separate trials in a very short space of time - it was on the prosecutor (Henderson) who seemed hell bent on getting Camm convicted. A down right rejection of being wrong (which isn't really new in America now is it).

Camm was finally found to be innocent of the crime he was said to have committed.

I don't live in America, so excuse me of my ignorance, but are people still perceived to be guilty even after they've been found to be innocent?

That sound rather odd.

Not guilty does not mean you are innocent of the crime. Surely no one believes OJ Simpson is innocent considered the huge amount of forensic evidence he left all over the crime scene.

 

[cami]

Are you saying Camm over Charles Boney committed those injuries?

I believe he did yes, I believe he molested his daughter and his wife was about to turn him in for it.

 

[cami]

The motive being?

No on needs to provide a motive, the evidence speaks loud and clear and it all points to Darlie Routier and not an intruder.

No one knows how Darlie received those bruises. So you don't believe they were self-inflicted, there are many, many other folks who do believe they are. They believe the doctors when they say Darlie was nervous and upset when her booboos were photographed in hospital. They believe she may have given herself a few whacks on the arm after she was released from hospital. And since that arm was checked by the doctor when she was released, it's clear she did not receive those bruises the night of the murders from some u/k intruder who couldn't manage to kill her like he did her boys.

 

[cami]

This isn't true though. The statement found in Darlie's car showed two months in arrears and was contested by both of them that it was only one month (the letter was sent after a payment had been made). They had changed the way they paid the mortgage at this time and Darlie was now paying it from home rather than the shop.

The loan asked for capitol at the last minute and Darin didn't want to put anything up (asset wise) so he pulled out.

The jaguar needed a $3 pipe to be replaced.

Darlie and Darin had already got tickets for their vacation and Darin had $4,000 available in his business account, with clients owing around $20,000 in the upcoming months.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. I don't know if Darlie, Darin, both or neither did this crime but it's not healthy to throw internet rumours out for discussion. The more lazy 'sleuths' out there sometimes take out right lies as gospel.

Really? Why was Darin so desperate to get this loan that he asked the loans officer to send it to the panel again after it was first denied? Read the loans officer's testimony during the trial or is she lying too?

 

[cami]

They call it "fresh eyes" for a reason. And with touch DNA now available maybe the ankle part of the sock will be tested as opposed to just the toe area that the prosecution tested.

It was tested so your sarcastic comment about the prosecution, once again, shows your knack for twisting the testimony. Go read it again.

 

[chlban]

I believe he did yes, I believe he molested his daughter and his wife was about to turn him in for it.

I too believe Camm killed his family. I am not sure I believe that Boney is as innocent as he claims insofar as only providing the gun. I suspect he assisted Camm in the killing.

Third time was indeed a charm for Camm.

 

[chlban]

Really? Why was Darin so desperate to get this loan that he asked the loans officer to send it to the panel again after it was first denied? Read the loans officer's testimony during the trial or is she lying too?

Even one month behind on a mortgage can be pretty scary anyway. I was unemployed in 2009 when my industry tanked. I was very fortunate to have savings to see me through, but I know plenty of people in my industry that either almost lost their homes, or some who actually did finally have to give up.
These were people much like Darin and Darlie, who lived the high life for a while when it appeared there was no end to the money coming in. Those are the very people that get hit the hardest. They don't have savings, because they spent it all as fast as they made it.

I think Darlie saw it all imploding around her. She was stressed with the kids and the money issues and just lost it. I don't know if she planned it in advance or if the situation just exploded that night. We will never know because I don't think she knows how to tell the truth.

Many murders, JonBenet Ramsey, Laci Peterson, Caylee Anthony are almost entirely circumstantial. Others like Darlie's and Jeffrey MacDonald's crimes provide a wealth of forensic evidence. There may be some doubt into her actual motive and when she actually planned the murders, but there is no doubt she is the killer.

 

[Paysee]

The jaguar needed a $3 pipe to be replaced.

I was reading Darin's trial transcripts today, and I thought I would post this part of it over here for TellTheTruth.

14 Q. Mr. Routier, yesterday, do you recall
15 that we talked about your Jaguar?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And, yesterday, do you recall telling
18 me what was wrong with that Jaguar?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. What was wrong with it?
21 A. There was a tube that was going to
22 the -- one of the diaphragms that goes up into the
23 transmission.
24 Q. Okay. I believe that you had told me
25 yesterday, that it cost about three dollars to have that
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4433
1 car fixed, correct?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Now, on July the 1st, when you came
4 down to the courthouse and you were sworn in, do you
5 recall that we talked about the Jaguar at that time?
6 A. Yes, sir, I said that the transmission
7 had gone out.
8 Q. Okay. By the way, last night, did you
9 have a chance to go over your prior testimony?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Okay. Did you talk to any lawyers
12 about your testimony?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Nobody has talked to you?
15 A. I talked to Mr. Mulder about my sister
16 being -- just came in town.
17 Q. In July, when you came down, you told
18 me that the transmission was out, and it was going to
19 cost about three thousand dollars to fix that car, right?
20 A. I don't remember if it was three
21 thousand.
22 Q. Okay. About three thousand?
23 A. Well, I think it may have been more
24 around eight hundred.
25 Q. Okay.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
4434
1 A.It was a Turbo 400.
2 Q. Let me show you page 16 of that
3 transcript. Do you see where I said, "Would it be fairly
4 expensive to repair the automobile just to get it
5 running?"
6 Do you see your answer, "About three
7 thousand dollars".
8 A. Yes, sir. (Witness nodding head
9 affirmatively.)
10 Q. Okay. Was that your answer back on
11 July the 1st?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. And, in July,do you remember telling
14 me that you only had thirty-two hundred dollars available
15 to you?
16 A. I don't recall.
17 Q. Do you remember that?
18 A. Oh, at the bond hearing?
19 Q. Yes, sir.
20 A. I remember saying that, yes, sir.

So the Jaguar needed about $3,000 worth of repairs and Darin had $3,200 in his bank according his own testimony at the bond hearing.