Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #6

[Whatson]

This is what I really want to know too. I pictured it as a trail/track not a road you could get a car down. But I’ve only been to the city proper of Ballarat, not that familiar with the countryside surrounding.

Are the names of trails available?

 

[mondayschild]

You make a really good point @jjleroche re MM and how many people made quick assumptions about him which seemed to be based on ideas about appearance or how he would/should look or dress e.g his clothing was described by some as "too casual" to care (!!!). IMHO the mental fortitude of SM's family is really to be commended. It takes a lot of strength.

We all judge, mostly subconsciously. I know I do it. Culture, upbringing, environment, experiences, mood all come into it. The media has a big role in directing us to keep thinking in this stereotyped way as well. It doesn't mean we are bad people for falling into this stereotyping but good to be aware of it and talk about it.

It's also good to acknowledge that the huge run of deliberate, violent deaths of women in Australia this year (15 ? Perhaps even 16 since then given another death in NSW in past 48 hrs) also increases the fear. When we are scared, we might revert more to stereotyping or judgment. Looking at the info published at the time around Sissi Austin's attack in Ballarat - it didn't describe the potential assailant as an older person, or someone with signs of mental illness, or behaving erratically but that became the narrative.

People are messy and complex. "good" people (i.e. I would argue everyone) are capable of "bad" things. A lot of bad things occur outside of what breaks laws or can be successfully found to have broken a law because of the laws around evidence/admissibility. I'm going to end this before it becomes too philosophical for a long weekend....

 

[Whatson]

This is what I really want to know too. I pictured it as a trail/track not a road you could get a car down. But I’ve only been to the city proper of Ballarat, not that familiar with the countryside surrounding.

Forestry areas in Australia can be a mixed variation of trails. You could have a forest with many trails only accessible/wide enough for walking, cycling, motorbiking, however, there would also be "fire trails" in the area, which are typically there for forestry access by rangers and emergency services, although often accessible to the public. It would depend on the classification of the forest, weather it is state forest (often accessible by vehicle) or national park (closed to vehicle access).

 

[JLZ]

Can anyone elaborate on "or had a reckless indifference to human life"?

In Victoria, there is no statutory definition of recklessness in relation to offences against the person; at common law:

The accused must have foreseen the probability that harm [in the case of murder, death] would occur and have proceeded regardless. The word ‘probable’ means likely to happen. Recklessness is not established when the accused knew only that a particular consequence ‘might occur’.

Appendix: Recklessness in Australia and other common law jurisdictions - Victorian Law Reform Commission

This table sets out how recklessness is defined in federal law and Australia’s states and territories, as well as in Canada, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Victoria is a common law jurisdiction, whereas Western Australia, Queensland, Tasmania and the Northern Territory are ‘code’...

www.lawreform.vic.gov.au

 

[cocomonkey]

I don't have a subscription but The Herald has an article titled " Accused killer’s bender before mum went missing" and goes on to say: "Associates of ********************, the man accused of murdering missing Ballarat mum Samantha Murphy, say he went on a bender the night before she was killed."
Does anyone have more insight into this?

 

[BoysTown]

Me too. Has it been ascertained that it's possible to get a car onto the track where Sam was running?

I believe there are some sections that have access for cars. One of the members here who lives in Ballarat spoke about it.

 

[Susan12]

From the information released I read that he was out partying allegedly drug taking and drinking until 3am so not sure if a 7am morning athletic run could be realistic? IMO
If this was the case it would be more likely targeted or aimless wandering? MOO

I take your point. I just thought though if it’s true that he was taking cocaine the night before it might have made him find it hard to sleep and whether he thought a run would be a good idea for some reason.

“This surge in dopamine leads to a heightened sense of euphoria and energy, making it difficult for users to feel tired or fall asleep.” Cocaine and sleep: what problems can it cause?

Her run started 4 hours after he left the party apparently. I am not sure if she was running close to where he was partying but I thought with the gap he might have gone home, not be settled, and gone out again.

 

[acutename]

This is what I really want to know too. I pictured it as a trail/track not a road you could get a car down. But I’ve only been to the city proper of Ballarat, not that familiar with the countryside surrounding.

Forestry areas in Australia can be a mixed variation of trails. You could have a forest with many trails only accessible/wide enough for walking, cycling, motorbiking, however, there would also be "fire trails" in the area, which are typically there for forestry access by rangers and emergency services, although often accessible to the public. It would depend on the classification of the forest, weather it is state forest (often accessible by vehicle) or national park (closed to vehicle access).

some of the search pictures show wide flat trails that would accommodate a vehicle IMO

some one earlier also posted a map with areas where the park area intersects streets

 

[nightpaw]

You make a really good point @jjleroche re MM and how many people made quick assumptions about him which seemed to be based on ideas about appearance or how he would/should look or dress e.g his clothing was described by some as "too casual" to care (!!!). IMHO the mental fortitude of SM's family is really to be commended. It takes a lot of strength.

We all judge, mostly subconsciously. I know I do it. Culture, upbringing, environment, experiences, mood all come into it. The media has a big role in directing us to keep thinking in this stereotyped way as well. It doesn't mean we are bad people for falling into this stereotyping but good to be aware of it and talk about it.

It's also good to acknowledge that the huge run of deliberate, violent deaths of women in Australia this year (15 ? Perhaps even 16 since then given another death in NSW in past 48 hrs) also increases the fear. When we are scared, we might revert more to stereotyping or judgment. Looking at the info published at the time around Sissi Austin's attack in Ballarat - it didn't describe the potential assailant as an older person, or someone with signs of mental illness, or behaving erratically but that became the narrative.

People are messy and complex. "good" people (i.e. I would argue everyone) are capable of "bad" things. A lot of bad things occur outside of what breaks laws or can be successfully found to have broken a law because of the laws around evidence/admissibility. I'm going to end this before it becomes too philosophical for a long weekend....

I don’t know a single woman that hasn’t personally experienced some form of predatory behavior from a male (or fellow woman in some cases) in the spectrum of severity.
“Lad culture” especially in sports is rife with misogyny, rape, violence, it’s constantly in the media. The public image of these people is completely distorted and as someone mentioned previously easily exploited.
Also the coffee cup with “carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white male” slogan is stating the obvious about the way in which certain types pass in society…
This clearly has to change.

 

[Poirot's niece]

I take your point. I just thought though if it’s true that he was taking cocaine the night before it might have made him find it hard to sleep and whether he thought a run would be a good idea for some reason.

“This surge in dopamine leads to a heightened sense of euphoria and energy, making it difficult for users to feel tired or fall asleep.” Cocaine and sleep: what problems can it cause?

Her run started 4 hours after he left the party apparently. I am not sure if she was running close to where he was partying but I thought with the gap he might have gone home, not be settled, and gone out again.

Its unlikely to have been pure cocaine, it was probably cut with speed and other fillers, most of them have nasty effects. You only have to google 'what is cocaine cut with' to give you lists and the properties of hundreds of substances used to increase profit margin on a deal. ie completely overstimulated

 

[TrunkImagine]

DBM

 

[Whatson]

A quick screen shot from the Mt Clear area,with map legend included. From what I can see, there is a mixed variety of trail and dirt road available. If anyone wants specific maps, drop me a coordinate. Or you can download and use the app yourself. It's called Gaia GPS

 

[Angeline]

I wonder where Sam was attacked ?

I recommend watching the Under Investigation program about the case. Somebody linked to the program a couple of pages back. They discuss the exact location where Sam's device indicated the attack likely took place.

 

[Algorithm]

Its unlikely to have been pure cocaine, it was probably cut with speed and other fillers, most of them have nasty effects. You only have to google 'what is cocaine cut with' to give you lists and the properties of hundreds of substances used to increase profit margin on a deal. ie completely overstimulated

Maybe he was so “high” and full of energy he/they decided to go on a joy ride and the unthinkable happened.

 

[jjleroche]

You make a really good point @jjleroche re MM and how many people made quick assumptions about him which seemed to be based on ideas about appearance or how he would/should look or dress e.g his clothing was described by some as "too casual" to care (!!!). IMHO the mental fortitude of SM's family is really to be commended. It takes a lot of strength.

We all judge, mostly subconsciously. I know I do it. Culture, upbringing, environment, experiences, mood all come into it. The media has a big role in directing us to keep thinking in this stereotyped way as well. It doesn't mean we are bad people for falling into this stereotyping but good to be aware of it and talk about it.

It's also good to acknowledge that the huge run of deliberate, violent deaths of women in Australia this year (15 ? Perhaps even 16 since then given another death in NSW in past 48 hrs) also increases the fear. When we are scared, we might revert more to stereotyping or judgment. Looking at the info published at the time around Sissi Austin's attack in Ballarat - it didn't describe the potential assailant as an older person, or someone with signs of mental illness, or behaving erratically but that became the narrative.

People are messy and complex. "good" people (i.e. I would argue everyone) are capable of "bad" things. A lot of bad things occur outside of what breaks laws or can be successfully found to have broken a law because of the laws around evidence/admissibility. I'm going to end this before it becomes too philosophical for a long weekend....

Thanks mondayschild. Yes I agree. We all judge, and we are all products of our environment.
You've explained the complexity of this issue much better than I ever could!

I have become much more aware of "appearances" since reading The Ann Rule book "The Stranger Beside Me", in which Ted Bundy, one of USA's most prolific serial killers, was described as "handsome, kind and endearing" at first glance, enabling him to get under people's guard.
JMO

​

 

[fawlty towers]

JMO. One thinks it will be very hard to find impartial members from the community to form a jury.

 

[Whatson]

Satellite imagery of the Canadian State Forest. So yes, trails appear easily accessible by vehicle.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Investigators claimed it was not a hit and run incident.

Ballarat mayor lashes conspiracies as 22yo man charged with murdering Samantha Murphy

 

[investigatefred]

Me too. Has it been ascertained that it's possible to get a car onto the track where Sam was running?

This is what I really want to know too. I pictured it as a trail/track not a road you could get a car down. But I’ve only been to the city proper of Ballarat, not that familiar with the countryside surrounding.

Are the names of trails available?

You can go to "street view" on Google maps. It's helpful to take you on sort of a walk through various areas. It appears most of the roads through the area she likely ran were a mix of gravel/dirt roads, and based on tire tracks, you can see it looks like vehicles do travel through the area. I looked at it yesterday or the day before when people were talking about a water storage/electrical tower near Recreation Rd or Boak Rd I think it was. Gives you a good perspective of the search terrain as well that they are facing.

 

[Lemony]

I've seen Major Collision unit involved in air crash stuff, so that doesn't signify a lot, ...it is a matter of the actual charge that , to me, nullifies the concept of it being a collision event. Murder, particularly since they were not known to each other, ( which brings a whole other load of factors into the charge itself ) implies a certain person to person, shirtfront to shirtfront , face to face aura, an event not separated by a metal vehicle, enclosed in glass, but right up into the personal realm.

There are provisions for charging a person with vehicular death, but they were not used by VICPOL.

So I just wondered, is all....... I don't doubt that Major Col have a part to play, but not in the sense of it being a collision event, I don't think..

If he deliberately used his vehicle as a weapon then that could result in a murder charge imo.

MCIU may have been brought in to rule out a collision. Another angle.