Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #7

[Gladys Kravitz]

Does a deliberate act hint at premeditated?
Is deliberate act synonymous with premeditated?

Deliberate, intentional, premeditated, voluntary refer to something not happening by chance. deliberate is applied to what is done not hastily but with full realization of what one is doing: a deliberate attempt to evade justice.
How premeditated are we thinking? Minutes, months or years?
Hide the body in a dam, a log, a mine, burn it, the fires or a ready dug grave.

<modsnip - not approved sources>

If this is all the one person, it's looking very premeditated.

 

[T-dawg420]

That’s incredibly sad if the body has been destroyed beyond recovery. How that can happen is perplexing in itself. If so, it really supports the premeditation theory.

There’s been a bit of talk about the bushfires around Ballarat after SM went missing might having something to do with her disposal and a reason why her body hasn’t been located.

It’s an absolute devastating thought to have but maybe that could be the case? I am not sure about if you can literally burn a body into nothing? I know there is cremation but Could a normal fire do that or does it need to be a specific temperature at a constant burn? my Knowledge of this subject is very minimal, maybe someone else has more knowledge on it?

I do apologise for the graphic nature but it’s something that’s gotta be considered. I know there’s been talk of pigs, and crocodiles being involved in body disposal, I guess when there is very limited facts to go on anything is possible.

 

[SouthAussie]

There’s been a bit of talk about the bushfires around Ballarat after SM went missing might having something to do with her disposal and a reason why her body hasn’t been located.

It’s an absolute devastating thought to have but maybe that could be the case? I am not sure about if you can literally burn a body into nothing? I know there is cremation but Could a normal fire do that or does it need to be a specific temperature at a constant burn? my Knowledge of this subject is very minimal, maybe someone else has more knowledge on it?

Russell Hill and Carol Clay were burned. They were still identified. The alleged killer returned to where he dumped them, and burned them ... twice.

I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.


Investigators say he returned to the scene twice in a nine-month period, setting fire to the remains.

How detectives zeroed in on the alleged killer of Victorian campers

New details have been revealed in documents provided a committal hearing about why police allege Greg Lynn killed campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill in the Victorian High Country.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Gladys Kravitz]

There’s been a bit of talk about the bushfires around Ballarat after SM went missing might having something to do with her disposal and a reason why her body hasn’t been located.

It’s an absolute devastating thought to have but maybe that could be the case? I am not sure about if you can literally burn a body into nothing? I know there is cremation but Could a normal fire do that or does it need to be a specific temperature at a constant burn? my Knowledge of this subject is very minimal, maybe someone else has more knowledge on it?

I do apologise for the graphic nature but it’s something that’s gotta be considered. I know there’s been talk of pigs, and crocodiles being involved in body disposal, I guess when there is very limited facts to go on anything is possible.

It has crossed my mind of access to pet cremation facility.

 

[Deleted member 293720]

It’s a very sad thought, but it is looking that way. LE must have enough evidence to prove what happened and not need her body to do so.

We don't know If the accused has admitted anything


The accused could have said there is no body to find, when the police have questioned him

or he is just staying silent

But I would say the police know now what has happened

The police might have footage of everything on his phone, dash cam etc

CCTV, DNA, Intelligence, phone data, personal gear, weapon etc...

The accused might have told someone, who has come forward, even with a listening device and admitted

We won't know everything until it goes to court

 

[Kemug]

So to suggest there is no body left, only one thing really comes to mind for myself and that is perhaps disposal being submerged in acid.

Hydrochloric acid is required for the separation of gold if it's only particle gold, so there could be some old supplies around the town the accused had access to.

Either that or the accused purchased it and the police have the purchase on record or CCTV

It seems unbelievable, but I suppose it isn't. But how would a 22 year old get hold of enough acid to do the job? And wouldn't a bath or some sort of tub be needed? And then need to be disposed of afterwards?

 

[Rocket333]

Russell Hill and Carol Clay were burned. They were still identified. The alleged killer returned to where he dumped them, and burned them ... twice.

I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.


Investigators say he returned to the scene twice in a nine-month period, setting fire to the remains.

How detectives zeroed in on the alleged killer of Victorian campers

New details have been revealed in documents provided a committal hearing about why police allege Greg Lynn killed campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill in the Victorian High Country.

www.abc.net.au

Lynn also told the cops where the couple were buried didn’t he? Would they have been found without his disclosure?

 

[bearbear]

A poster in the Jessica Zrinski thread explained this well if I can link it:

ACTIVE SEARCH - AUSTRALIA - Jessica Zrinski, 30, last seen in Bossley Park area of Sydney, 25 Nov 2022

Bumping

www.websleuths.com

thank you, it makes sense, sm was mrs everybody and a lot of people could identify with her, plus everybody spoke so highly of her, a nice person

 

[BreakingNews]

It's interesting to me that people can't seem to believe someone would randomly attack a woman not known to them. To me this falls into the same vein as the 'he looks too normal to be a killer!' comments.
It happens all the time, to varying degrees. No motive or prior relationship is needed. He does not need to have been plotting to kill her and staking out her running routine. Yes, it's the more 'boring' outcome. But if you're speculating pigs ate her (???) then I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
Chances that he just decided to run a stranger down, dumped her body in the bush and it's pure luck that it hasn't been discovered yet - like Karen Ristevski. Yes, not as exciting to discuss, but this is real life - not a crime novel.

However the stats are against the random opportunity murder. As discussed a few weeks ago, unknown randoms only rate as less than 10%. But I guess this could be one of those

 

[BreakingNews]

It seems unbelievable, but I suppose it isn't. But how would a 22 year old get hold of enough acid to do the job? And wouldn't a bath or some sort of tub be needed? And then need to be disposed of afterwards?

A case in Cairns 15 or so years ago, the husband disposed of his wife using acid in a drain. From memory, she was identified by teeth.

 

[SouthAussie]

Lynn also told the cops where the couple were buried didn’t he? Would they have been found without his disclosure?

It hasn't been confirmed, but I believe so. They found Russell and Carol after his arrest, and they were well hidden in the hole of a root ball, and in fragments (likely from the burning).

They likely couldn't have been found without GL's input of some kind - which was gained because police had enough other evidence to prove that he was involved in their deaths (GL claims one was an accident, and one was self defence).

 

[SLouTh]

It seems unbelievable, but I suppose it isn't. But how would a 22 year old get hold of enough acid to do the job? And wouldn't a bath or some sort of tub be needed? And then need to be disposed of afterwards?

A guy in Cairns murdered his wife and dissolved her in acid …

Cairns man who dissolved wife's body in acid found guilty of murder

A 70-year-old Cairns man has been sentenced to life in jail for the murder of his wife, whose body he disposed of with acid. The jury rejected Klaus Andres's claims that he had accidentally killed his 42-year-old wife Li Ping Cao in self defence. In handing down the life sentence, Justice Jim...

www.abc.net.au

But Police were able to prove it …..

The accused was seen at Bunnings buying 20 litres of hydrochloric acid using Ms Cao’s credit card. He used that acid to dispose of her body.

Ms Cao had been killed, and her body put in a wheelie bin full of acid. All that police could find of her were 10 porcelain teeth in a drain outside the couple’s suburban Cairns home.


Paywalled for some ..

No Cookies | The Cairns Post

No Cookies | The Cairns Post

www.cairnspost.com.au

 

[BreakingNews]

Out of curiosity - for anyone who has followed trials in the past, have they ever mentioned an accused's prior record? Or is the law in general that you aren't allowed to discuss other crimes? Are there exceptions to this rule?

It's worrying to me that if there's not enough evidence to convict a case the killer walks free even though they have a string of other offences that clearly indicate their pattern of behaviour

Not allowed. I was on a jury for a murder trial and we didn't know he had attempted murder previously. Luckily we said he was guilty.

 

[BGirl88]

If this was all premeditated, planned in advance (JMO), I would imagine his computer or phone search history would be rather interesting. Did we know what the three warrants were for? One was for his car… how about the other two…?
MOO

 

[they'll get you]

Cops shouldn’t have to pay telcos for help solving crimes.​

Police forces are shelling out big bucks to access potentially lifesaving information.

Police revealed they planned to comb through mobile data for phones which “pinged” off certain cellular towers at crucial times after Ms Murphy left her Ballarat home for a run from which she never returned.
Two days after they made that revelation, a man was in custody charged with Ms Murphy’s murder.

Police can use phone data to track dangerous offenders or someone whose life is in danger, urgent text messages can be sent out to thousands of phones during lifesaving investigations, such as in the search for missing children, or people with dementia.

Cops shouldn’t have to pay telcos for help solving crimes

If the police ask for your help to catch a criminal, you don’t then send them a bill for your trouble.

thenightly.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

If this was all premeditated, planned in advance (JMO), I would imagine his computer or phone search history would be rather interesting. Did we know what the three warrants were for? One was for his car… how about the other two…?
MOO

I am guessing the warrants covered any thing and every thing significant ..

Several search warrants were executed at a number of properties near the man's home as investigators continue to search for clues.

Patrick Orren Stephenson named as Samantha Murphy's accused killer after suppression order ends

The man charged with murdering Victorian woman Samantha Murphy can be revealed as Patrick Orren Stephenson, after his lawyer dropped a bid to have the 22-year-old's name suppressed.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Whatson]

A guy in Cairns murdered his wife and dissolved her in acid …

Cairns man who dissolved wife's body in acid found guilty of murder

A 70-year-old Cairns man has been sentenced to life in jail for the murder of his wife, whose body he disposed of with acid. The jury rejected Klaus Andres's claims that he had accidentally killed his 42-year-old wife Li Ping Cao in self defence. In handing down the life sentence, Justice Jim...

www.abc.net.au

But Police were able to prove it …..

The accused was seen at Bunnings buying 20 litres of hydrochloric acid using Ms Cao’s credit card. He used that acid to dispose of her body.

Ms Cao had been killed, and her body put in a wheelie bin full of acid. All that police could find of her were 10 porcelain teeth in a drain outside the couple’s suburban Cairns home.


Paywalled for some ..

No Cookies | The Cairns Post

No Cookies | The Cairns Post

www.cairnspost.com.au

Awful. I must say, 20 litres is a lot less than most would assume would be required. And simply purchased from Bunnings and carried out in a roadside rubbish bin.

I could see this scenario fitting the way everything stands at the moment. From police having gathered enough evidence to go with murder and the accused remaining silent.

 

[Gladys Kravitz]

Theres also been silence from Sissi, the lady jogger attacked a year prior. You'd think if he wasn't her perp, we would have heard so.

 

[Kemug]

Whenever a crime is committed, Bunnings should be the first port of call for LE!

 

[Nikynoo]

are LE still searching for Sam, or is it just volunteer searches?