Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

[Trooper]

It doesn't prove intent.
It proves nothing unless police can connect the offender with the phone or the dam. If anything, finding the phone without finding Samantha opens up more possibilities, including one where the phone was disposed of by someone other than the accused.

If they have him 'attacking' Mrs Murphy, in a premeditated fashion, at a certain time before the phone is at the dam,and she , as a result of that attack, is deceased, then he would be held to be in possession of the phone unless he designates someone else to whom he gave the phone to.

I don't know if you mean intent to murder Mrs Murphy, or intent to dispose of the phone. Once he has murdered Mrs Murphy, her possessions are regarded as under his auspices, unless he claims to have left them there at the murder site, and they were picked up by an anonymous stranger or he gave them to someone else, who then disposed of them.

Either way. it's pretty certain that Samantha did not throw her phone in the dam. Someone did. Someone who knew the owner of the phone would not be needing it anymore, or did not want to be associated with the phone.

Attacking Mrs Murphy is all the intent VICPOL needs to hang a charge of murder on him. Premeditation can be measured in seconds, it does not require a written and submitted thesis. Just lunging at her would be classified as premeditation, and intent, in criminal law. ..

 

[Trooper]

It is not as easy as one would think to murder fit 50 yr old women,, without weaponry, just his bare hands...... Mrs Murphy would have put up a monumental struggle, he's a tall bloke but she has a lifetime of sober living and rigorous physical training going on in her life, she ran marathons, he was a bender drinker and a slugger down of drugs, and she would have known she was in it for her life. I have no doubts that he had plenty of opportunity to stop what he was doing, and he chose not to, and this is where the murder label comes into it.

 

[drsleuth]

What does it matter IF he was out on a bender on Sat night / Sunday morning?

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I disregard anything on sky news. This does not mean you must, it merely informs one that anything out of sky news is meaningless, to me as it is an entertainment organisation, not a news channel. When 'his friends' testify in court that he was on a bender the night before is when I'll be taking it on board. Entirely up to you , though. So far, all that has been reported from Ballarat.is amateur clips of him on a drunken drug rage back in January. I won't be arguing with you about it, either.

Where did you get your info about the 80th Birthday?
Can't find it.

 

[Trooper]

What does it matter IF he was out on a bender on Sat night / Sunday morning?

I'll be darned if I can see any significance to it, Dr. S.. one mans bender might be another mans normal drinking level. We will find out what he was doing in the forest that Sunday morning, and why he was there, that's for sure. People do dreadful things to other people stone cold sober, some don't need any fuel to ignite their mindless fury.

Stephenson is probably exchanging ideas for 'motive' with Lachlan Young, two young blokes from Ballarat, quite close neighbors, in terms of klms ... they have so much in common, athough Lachlan murdered his girfriend Hannah with a motive in mind , he didn't want to share the cost of the house they bought together, and his chosen method of killing and disposing of Hannahs body showed a peculiar combination of stupidity and flair, but there they both sit, in remand , facing the Supreme Court in a murder trial

Sitting in custody is their life as they will know it , from now on. Both bender men, both ridiculously resentful.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

If they have him 'attacking' Mrs Murphy, in a premeditated fashion, at a certain time before the phone is at the dam,and she , as a result of that attack, is deceased, then he would be held to be in possession of the phone unless he designates someone else to whom he gave the phone to.

I don't know if you mean intent to murder Mrs Murphy, or intent to dispose of the phone. Once he has murdered Mrs Murphy, her possessions are regarded as under his auspices, unless he claims to have left them there at the murder site, and they were picked up by an anonymous stranger or he gave them to someone else, who then disposed of them.

Either way. it's pretty certain that Samantha did not throw her phone in the dam. Someone did. Someone who knew the owner of the phone would not be needing it anymore, or did not want to be associated with the phone.

Attacking Mrs Murphy is all the intent VICPOL needs to hang a charge of murder on him. Premeditation can be measured in seconds, it does not require a written and submitted thesis. Just lunging at her would be classified as premeditation, and intent, in criminal law. ..

The threshold of proof for a conviction for murder is pretty high.
The prosecution need to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that the accused caused the death of the person they did so deliberately, not accidentally they did so with 'relevant murderous intention' (that is, with intention to kill or at least seriously injure) - this is often the hardest to prove
They did so without any legal excuse or justification (e.g. self-defence)But also, note that in Victoria a person found not guilty of murder may be found guilty of manslaughter. (It's not all or nothing!)

In Victoria, the police have authority to lay charges without directly engaging DPP/OPP when they believe they have sufficient evidence. The decision to prosecute rests with OPP/DPP.
After charges are laid, cases are referred to OPP/DPP for review, who will then assess the evidence and determine whether to proceed.

Of course, the police believe they have enough evidence to charge with murder, or they wouldn't do it.
That doesn't mean they have enough to convict. They can not know that until the trial.

 

[drsleuth]

The police won't be telling us everything. We don't know what new info they have collected now seven months on..
It's not enough just to prove that the accused and Samantha were in the same place at the same time.

They need to also prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that nobody else was there.
Questions, how can they do that? Just because no other phone pinged?
Someone else could have been there but didn't carry a phone

They need to prove intent.

This requires a motive, or other explanation (beyond reasonable doubt) which proves the accused acted deliberately or with the knowledge that his actions were likely to cause Samantha's death.

Again, how can they do this without an eyewitness or physical evidence or a confession?

They need to prove that the accused actions did in fact cause Samantha's death, and that she did not die from other causes.
Again, how do you do that without a body?
(Defence: yeah, I came across her body, she was already dead, I panicked and left. Someone else must have moved her body).

This is what will be playing out ...

BBM : By direct evidence? Something certainly makes them so sure she was allegedly murdered @ Mount Clear by PS

But It seems the accused was meticulous in hiding the body, murder weapon, and other evidence relating to the crime. But totally careless and nonchalant about the phone.

Where were all the failed attempts at other properties along this road, or other roads? Did they just get lucky? Or was it staged?

But they suddenly switched from 'not giving a running commentary to a very specific and detailed public display.

And we don't know how long the phone has been at the dam, If It's just recently been placed in there after the accused has been arrested ?

If anything, finding the phone without finding Samantha opens up more possibilities, including one where the phone was disposed of by someone other than the killer.

BBM : The police may have the murder weapon, it could be his vehicle. It could also be his fists or generally his body ( assault ) .

Carly McBride was murdered by her partners, actually bashed to death with 23 fractures to her skull, 13 fractures to her torso as well as fractured ribs and spine. There was no murder weapon, just this %$%$'s brutal force

"Ms McBride had 23 fractures to her skull, 13 fractures to the torso, fractured ribs and three ribs missing, as well as spinal fractures."

'Unrestrained brutality': Kickboxer jailed over girlfriend's murder

A mixed martial arts fighter has been sentenced to 27 years in jail for killing his girlfriend in an ice-fuelled jealous rage.

www.abc.net.au

 

[australianwebsleuth]

You're right in that the 80th and the drug fueled bender are two very different events. However, someone who goes on a drug fueled bender, can quite easily go on more, and quite regularly. I can easily see him fulfilling his obligation to attend "Grandpa's" 80th, either stone cold sober, or taking a little hit to get him through the yawn fest, then moving on to the nightclubs afterwards, where his party boy side emerges. MOO



Shortened by me.
There could be many reasons why the phone was not with Sam. Perhaps it was forgotten in the panic of disposing of her, perhaps it had slipped out of her pocket and not even noticed until after he'd dumped her body, perhaps he planned on using it as a red herring, perhaps part of him was worried that the police could track her phone and lead them right to her so wanted it elsewhere, perhaps he wanted it as trophy, perhaps someone else disposed of the phone, perhaps he intended to use it to masquerade as her and imply she'd just literally run off etc

Honey Bun One, I can find plenty of articles about the drug fuelled bender the night before in the Herad-Sun as well Sky News. I have been unable to find anything about the 80th Birthday party at all. Searched Internet.

Have you found it?

 

[drsleuth]

Honey Bun One, I can find plenty of articles about the drug fuelled bender the night before in the Herad-Sun as well Sky News. I have been unable to find anything about the 80th Birthday party at all. Searched Internet.

Have you found it?

I think it is a rumour, maybe true, may not be.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

It is not as easy as one would think to murder fit 50 yr old women,, without weaponry, just his bare hands...... Mrs Murphy would have put up a monumental struggle, he's a tall bloke but she has a lifetime of sober living and rigorous physical training going on in her life, she ran marathons, he was a bender drinker and a slugger down of drugs, and she would have known she was in it for her life. I have no doubts that he had plenty of opportunity to stop what he was doing, and he chose not to, and this is where the murder label comes into it.

I agree, and on a Sunday morning there are regular walkers along all those trails. Possibly motorbikes etc
Was Samantha ambushed from behind ?
Hiding a body takes some time and effort. If she was not immediately removed from the area where the alleged incident/attack/encounter with somebody took place, then a passer-by would almost certainly have seen something.

And it would have been far too risky to hide her in a temporary location and return to the 'scene of the crime' later the same day, as there were likely still searchers in the area, or at least people on heightened awareness that a woman was missing in the Mt Clear Forest.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

The issue about the drug fuelled bender goes to intent and why he was in The Canadian state forrest at 8.30am.

If he was on a bender....
Was he there because he was sleeping it off?
Was he on ICE and did he kill her because of ICE fuelled rage.
Had he pre parked his car there. If his car was not there, how did he get rid of the body. Did he have to go and get his car?

If he was not on a bender.....
Did he go there to murder her as part of a plan.
Had he previously seen her running in the forrest?
Was it a murder of opportunity.
Was this part of a plan to murder and dispose of a body.

Someone who is inebriated and seen drinking and snorting drugs as late as 3 am and then attacks someone at 8 AM suggests they were under influence.

I can't be sure the newspaper and sky news is correct or not. I was told that he was not on a bender by another contributor here and that I was wrong.

That's the importance of it. If it was a random attack by a drugged fuelled individual, it was probably a one off. If it was a planned attack there could be other victims such as the female runner attacked at lay lay a year before.

 

[SouthAussie]

The issue about the drug fuelled bender goes to intent and why he was in The Canadian state forrest at 8.30am.

If he was on a bender....
Was he there because he was sleeping it off?
Was he on ICE and did he kill her because of ICE fuelled rage.
Had he pre parked his car there. If his car was not there, how did he get rid of the body. Did he have to go and get his car?

If he was not on a bender.....
Did he go there to murder her as part of a plan.
Had he previously seen her running in the forrest?
Was it a murder of opportunity.
Was this part of a plan to murder and dispose of a body.

Someone who is inebriated and seen drinking and snorting drugs as late as 3 am and then attacks someone at 8 AM suggests they were under influence.

I can't be sure the newspaper and sky news is correct or not. I was told that he was not on a bender by another contributor here and that I was wrong.

That's the importance of it.

I think what others are trying to say is that we know the photos of him on a "drug-fuelled bender" are from January. We don't know his level of intoxication on the night before he allegedly killed Sam.
MSM was running with those January pics as current pics, until we/they found out the pics were from January.


Stephenson is said to have been at a party before heading to The Deck in Ballarat, which stays open until 3am. It is not clear when he left.

Tradie accused of killing Samantha Murphy partied before she vanished

imo

 

[Trooper]

The issue about the drug fuelled bender goes to intent and why he was in The Canadian state forrest at 8.30am.

If he was on a bender....
Was he there because he was sleeping it off?
Was he on ICE and did he kill her because of ICE fuelled rage.
Had he pre parked his car there. If his car was not there, how did he get rid of the body. Did he have to go and get his car?

If he was not on a bender.....
Did he go there to murder her as part of a plan.
Had he previously seen her running in the forrest?
Was it a murder of opportunity.
Was this part of a plan to murder and dispose of a body.

Someone who is inebriated and seen drinking and snorting drugs as late as 3 am and then attacks someone at 8 AM suggests they were under influence.

I can't be sure the newspaper and sky news is correct or not. I was told that he was not on a bender by another contributor here and that I was wrong.

That's the importance of it.

'Under influence'; is not a get out card. Unless he was tied up and force fed thru a hose , he chose to be influenced, if he was, by mind altering substances. Should we take this to mean his responsibility is somewhat lessened?? that someone has to be drunk or drugged up to do this,, kill a strange woman running in the forest? no one could just do it for the hell of it, is that the proposition?? He can claim he was under the influence, but a jury will decide if that is a mitigating factor, or an aggravating factor, most likely it will see it as aggravating, not mitigating.

What is important, really important, more important that anything else is, did he know what he was doing was wrong. And because he probably hid the body, after he probably murdered her, we probably know that he knew he was wrong. Otherwise, he would have told the police when they came searching for her, hey, I killed her and here she is, here's her body. See? that's how it works.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I think what others are trying to say is that we know the photos of him on a "drug-fuelled bender" are from January. We don't know his level of intoxication on the night before he allegedly killed Sam.
MSM was running with those January pics as current pics, until we/they found out the pics were from January.


Stephenson is said to have been at a party before heading to The Deck in Ballarat, which stays open until 3am. It is not clear when he left.

Tradie accused of killing Samantha Murphy partied before she vanished

imo

Thank you, so he may have been on a bender but there is not enough information to be absolutely sure he was paralytic before the event.

 

[drsleuth]

'Under influence'; is not a get out card. Unless he was tied up and force fed thru a hose , he chose to be influenced, if he was, by mind altering substances. Should we take this to mean his responsibility is somewhat lessened?? that someone has to be drunk or drugged up to do this,, kill a strange woman running in the forest? no one could just do it for the hell of it, is that the proposition?? He can claim he was under the influence, but a jury will decide if that is a mitigating factor, or an aggravating factor, most likely it will see it as aggravating, not mitigating.

What is important, really important, more important that anything else is, did he know what he was doing was wrong. And because he probably hid the body, after he probably murdered her, we probably know that he knew he was wrong. Otherwise, he would have told the police when they came searching for her, hey, I killed her and here she is, here's her body. See? that's how it works.

Exactly Self-Intoxication is not a defense. Carly's killer was on a ICE binge too. Still got 27years.......

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Exactly Self-Intoxication is not a defense. Carly's killer was on a ICE binge too. Still got 27years.......

It's not about legal defence. It's about whether this planned in which case there could easily be other cases. If it was unplanned and he was intoxicated, the likelihood of other cases is lower.

 

[Trooper]

It's not about legal defence. It's about whether this planned in which case there could easily be other cases. If it was unplanned and he was intoxicated, the likelihood of other cases is lower.

why would it be lower??

 

[Trooper]

He may have been killing small animals all his life. And a bedwetter , as well.. possibly setting fires all over the Western District. No one knows, until his trial. And maybe not even then. As soon as he is safely behind bars, my genuine belief is people will emerge from the woodwork with tales of his early life that may curl our hair, crimes against other much younger women, and not confined to women, either.

 

[callmehenry]

He may have been killing small animals all his life. And a bedwetter , as well.. possibly setting fires all over the Western District. No one knows, until his trial. And maybe not even then. As soon as he is safely behind bars, my genuine belief is people will emerge from the woodwork with tales of his early life that may curl our hair, crimes against other much younger women, and not confined to women, either.

I often wonder if it was him who set the bush fire that happened around the same time Samantha went missing

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Where and when was the fire exactly? The Beaufort bushfire Feb 22 or are you thinking of another?