Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

[JLZ]

They can tell which sector the phone pinged on, on a single tower. Which gives them a general direction. It is not one gigantic circle.
They just can't triangulate from one tower, or two (although two is better than one, and not as good as three or more). And the sector is rather large.
I have posted this link several times now.



Here is how a single mobile network tower would work.

The mobile tower can determine that the signal is being received from the γ sector, and that the source of the signal is close to 8 km from the mobile tower.

The mobile tower is then able to locate the source of the signal, placing the device within the yellow band which is around 16km long and .25km wide for a total of around 4km².

Within each sector, the tower can determine the distance of the transmitting device. This is done by measuring the strength of the signal and the time in which it takes for the signal to hit the destination and return.

View attachment 529531

Cell Tower Triangulation - GPYes Tracking Solutions

Cell Tower Triangulation is a technique used widely by mobile network operators, devices and phones to help identify their location. A device that is within communication range of three or more mobile network towers is located by the overlap of signals based upon its range from each tower.The...

www.gpyes.com.au

That's what I remember. I'm glad I didn't dream it.

 

[Rocket333]

In the next image you can see the 4.2km arc from this phone tower going through the lake identified

Thanks AWS. You said the phone could’ve been at Yendon Road but didn’t say it could’ve also have been at the dam. Both locations are on your arc, so why the home and not the dam?

In the next image you can see The location that RS was housesitting with his girlfriend. The same ARC is literally metres from the house.

Was SM phone really at 30 Yendon road and did the police search south near the dam just a lucky coincidence.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

BBM : Why did you make the arc precisely 4.2kms??

P.S You also need to provide links if you are stating things as fact as per TOS

Because it went through one of the known locations. The Dam or the ROS location. I chose the dam because the post is about the phone being found. Nothing else. I am stating that it's about the phone being found. I am simply offering an alternative explanation as I promised when discussing apple find my phone geolocation as I promised I would.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Thanks AWS. You said the phone could’ve been at Yendon Road but didn’t say it could’ve also have been at the dam. Both locations are on your arc, so why the home and not the dam?

Its because a phone underwater does not receive a signal.

 

[drsleuth]

Was it a coincidence that they found the phone south of Buninyong?

Previously in other posts it has been said that the cell phone network around Ballarat was 'down' the day SM disappeared. Other posts have also said that SM phone pinged south of the Buninyong, on the Buninyong golf course and Mount Clear. In order to determine precisely where a phone is either requires a GPS location or more than one operational cell tower signal from a phone that is turned on. Each tower by measuring the time lag in the ping creates an arc around each tower. As I have posted earlier just having another late model iPhone in proximity to SM phone would be enough to locate it. But what happens when there is only one available tower?

I looked at the phone tower that has been identified in Buninyong and did some measurements.

The phone tower south of Ballarat bird world. You can see the tower in the left lower corner Marked A.View attachment 529501

In the next image you can see the 4.2km arc from this phone tower going through the lake identified


View attachment 529503

In the next image you can see The location that RS was housesitting with his girlfriend. The same ARC is literally metres from the house.

View attachment 529504


Was SM phone really at 30 Yendon road and did the police search south near the dam just a lucky coincidence.

Incidentally the same ARC goes through where SM disappeared at Mount Clear. I decided not to include the image.

BBM : Can you please provide the link to the full "arc" picture.

Hard to follow when you don't provide full links & just screenshots, thanks.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I don't think it was a complete co-incidence. I think they had some intel, but didn't know exactly which dam, but knew the general area.

Given that he is not talking, How did they get the intel?

 

[drsleuth]

Given that he is not talking, How did they get the intel?

Many ways really, could be an anonymous tip to crimestoppers ( someone who saw something & doesn't want to get involved ) , CDR ( call details records ), his phone data, GPS data, the property owners etc

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Police hope for a breakthrough on Samantha Murphy

The first physical clue to the missing Ballarat mother’s fate emerges from the mud - a mobile phone.

www.theage.com.au

This article says that the absence of other towers from which the “ping” could be triangulated, the whereabouts of the phone could not be ascertained beyond the general area of Buninyong and district.

I'm sure I read recently that the ping was east of the tower ( trying to find the link )

They can tell which sector the phone pinged on, on a single tower. Which gives them a general direction. It is not one gigantic circle.
They just can't triangulate from one tower, or two (although two is better than one, and not as good as three or more). And the sector is rather large.

I have posted this link several times now. I think it is one of the easiest explanations for a layperson to understand.



Here is how a single mobile network tower would work.

The mobile tower can determine that the signal is being received from the γ sector, and that the source of the signal is close to 8 km from the mobile tower.

The mobile tower is then able to locate the source of the signal, placing the device within the yellow band which is around 16km long and .25km wide for a total of around 4km².

Within each sector, the tower can determine the distance of the transmitting device. This is done by measuring the strength of the signal and the time in which it takes for the signal to hit the destination and return.

View attachment 529531

Cell Tower Triangulation - GPYes Tracking Solutions

Cell Tower Triangulation is a technique used widely by mobile network operators, devices and phones to help identify their location. A device that is within communication range of three or more mobile network towers is located by the overlap of signals based upon its range from each tower.The...

www.gpyes.com.au

A 120 degree arc is a not a direction. You said east. Look at the phone tower. Which Arc are you saying it is on.

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM : Can you please provide the link to the full "arc" picture.

Hard to follow when you don't provide full links & just screenshots, thanks.

One thing we can't know is the arc of the sector, unless we see the actual tower and see how the sectors are placed.

Then we could guestimate it, visually. The provider will know it accurately. Each sector generally covers 120 degrees, but where that 120 degrees starts and ends is (accurately) what the provider will know.


A “cell sector” refers to a specific sector emanating from a cell tower. The number of sectors around a cell tower may vary by cellular provider but typically involve three separate 120-degree, pie-shaped arcs connected to form a circle of 360-degree coverage around the cell tower. Link

 

[SouthAussie]

A 120 degree arc is a not a direction. You said east. Look at the phone tower. Which Arc are you saying it is on.

I am not saying it is on any specific arc, because I don't know. What I am saying is it is not a "gigantic circle". The provider will know which sector/arc the phone was pinging on, and from there they know the general direction.

As I explained in my post just above, we don't even know which way the sectors are pointing, which 120 degrees each one covers - in this case.

imo

 

[drsleuth]

A 120 degree arc is a not a direction. You said east. Look at the phone tower. Which Arc are you saying it is on.

We simply don't know. Do you?

 

[Lemony]

In this news clip the reporter says the property owners were approached by police in the weeks after Samantha went missing, warning them that the area would be searched.

 

[drsleuth]

I found the article about East, didn't say pinged East as I thought, my bad.

Police admit devastating truth in Sam search

A fresh search of bushland for missing Ballarat mother Samantha Murphy has concluded, with police providing a sad update.

au.news.yahoo.com

The search area was several kilometres east of the Buninyong Golf Club, the focus of initial search efforts where Ms Murphy’s phone last pinged.

 

[Rocket333]

Its because a phone underwater does not receive a signal.

What if the phone was turned on just prior to going in the water?

 

[SouthAussie]

I found the article about East, didn't say pinged East as I thought, my bad.

Police admit devastating truth in Sam search

A fresh search of bushland for missing Ballarat mother Samantha Murphy has concluded, with police providing a sad update.

au.news.yahoo.com

The search area was several kilometres east of the Buninyong Golf Club, the focus of initial search efforts where Ms Murphy’s phone last pinged.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the ping was on a sector which faces mostly South West, or SSW, or SWW. But as much as I try to see the tower on Google street walk, I just can't see it. Not the tower that I think was active, anyway.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

As I explained in my post just above, we don't even know which way the sectors are pointing, which 120 degrees each one covers - in this case.

imo

We can see the tower in the image. That is why I put it in. Have a look. You can tell.


I suspect its pinged on two arcs because his house was on the border of two arcs. And I think that's the reason for the direction. This happens also to be the direction east of Buninyong Golf course. It happens to be where ROS was house sitting.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

What if the phone was turned on just prior to going in the water?

See below, it was east of Buninyong golf course

 

[Rocket333]

One thing we can't know is the arc of the sector, unless we see the actual tower and see how the sectors are placed.

Then we could guestimate it, visually. The provider will know it accurately. Each sector generally covers 120 degrees, but where that 120 degrees starts and ends is (accurately) what the provider will know.


A “cell sector” refers to a specific sector emanating from a cell tower. The number of sectors around a cell tower may vary by cellular provider but typically involve three separate 120-degree, pie-shaped arcs connected to form a circle of 360-degree coverage around the cell tower. Link

See page 20 of this inquest report for Theo Hayez. Is the “cell section” you mention the same as “the shaded wedged shaped area” shown in this report?

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/documents/findings/2022/Inquest_into_the_disappearance_and_suspected_death_of_Theo_Hayez.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

See page 20 of this inquest report for Theo Hayez. Is the “cell section” you mention the same as “the shaded wedged shaped area” shown in this report?

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/documents/findings/2022/Inquest_into_the_disappearance_and_suspected_death_of_Theo_Hayez.pdf

Yes, though that one looks as though it might have four sectors (as opposed to three) that cover the full 360 degrees.
From what I understand, three is the usual (and the minimum).

 

[australianwebsleuth]

If I had to guess, I would guess that the ping was on a sector which faces mostly South West, or SSW, or SWW. But as much as I try to see the tower on Google street walk, I just can't see it. Not the tower that I think was active, anyway.

You are looking for the tower on Mount Buninyong. How do you know it's that tower. The one closest to Buninyong golf course is the one at Bird World.