Saudis Behead, Crucify Convicted Child Molester, Murderer

[southcitymom]

respectfully snipped :blowkiss:

I'm going to borrow one of your sentences above.

If my child is raped and murdered and then someone rapes and murders the perpetrator in the name of justice, how is anything balanced out? I, personally would feel justification knowing that the perp is dead and no other family will go through the same pain (at least from that ) Not to mention that most pedo's (and I'm using that b/c were talking about someone raping a child) have offended before and quite possibly, if that pedo had been stopped before, my/your child would still be alive. KWIM, anyhoo just MPO!

I do hear you. But the link you first posted to start this very interesting thread was about cold-blooded torture and murder of someone who had raped and murdered. You can kill the perp and get the exact same result you are comfortable with (no family going through what you have been through) without torturing. The only purpose cold-blooded torture serves is to satisfy an often-understandable desire for revenge - a desire to hurt as badly as possible the person who has hurt us in the worst way we can imagine.

My entire parenting philosophy is based on the Golden Rule. In savage young boy terms that means "I understand that your brother just dismantled the Lego creation you spent 4 hours building last night, stole all the quarters from your piggy bank and stuck out his foot and tripped you while you were running on concrete.....that does not justify your decision to jump on his back, bite him on the shoulder until blood is drawn and then punch him in the face. I understand the impulses that led both of you to do these unkind things, but I hold you and your brother to a higher standard than what you have shown - that standard being that we treat all people the way we wish to be treated."

I'm not about to hold adults to a lower standard than kids. Just saying! :blowkiss:

 

[lightwaveryder]

unfortunately, the death penalty and subsequent shame on the perpetrator and their whole family (a big deal in muslim countries) is not a strong deterrent in their country. what i mean by that is, studies have shown that 33% of the men in those countries practice homosexuality regularly, and it is culturally acceptable in those circles for men to like young boys. it is not publicly encouraged, (because the koran forbids both of these things again under penalty of death) but is widely practiced, more so than here in the U.S. (the adults and child thing)

if we did that here, i believe our overall rate of these incidents would decrease 'some', and i would support any politician who could get this through the legislative process, but i also understand that there are some sick people out there and no amount of putting people to death is going to stop them all. it becomes a question of weight at this point. is it worth the combined resources required to convict and execute people, based on the hope that it will reduce attacks of this nature. i say, and many others would agree i think, that if it prevents one attack, it would be worth the expenditure.

regarding how i feel about the rights of the offenders, if you attack a child, you have only the right to express your feelings as what was done to them is visited unto you, in good turn.



~lwr~

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I think there has to be some balance, but I also think that we've intellectualized ourselves right around a circle and back to stupid.

SCM:
Since our society started to be more compassionate to criminals, crime has increased, so how can you think that not engaging in some dark stuff doesn't help from time to time? Can you give me an example of how our lean toward the attitude that doing such horrible things puts us squarely in the same shoes as the perpetrator has helped us?

A spiritual person I admire once told me that we all have an evil side. It's OK to use your evil side for good. Hmm. In other words, if you have to do something that would be considered evil in another situation, it could still be a good thing for many in another totally different situation.

I agree that we have to try and stay in the light as much as possible, but the darkness is inevitably there and perhaps a combination of dark and light is the only remedy in certain cases. A pacifist will eventually be destroyed if he doesn't learn how to fight for self defense. I admire those Chinese monks who are spiritual and deadly all the same. They understand the need to use a violent power for good.

We can't view all acts the same.

Society should have the right to punish, even if it's considered inhumane or evil and I don't think that makes it in any way equal to the act of the perp.

Very well stated. I agree with you 100 percent.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

You make fine points, ziggy, and I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not think crime has gotten worse as humans have gotten more "compassionate." I think our world today is "better" than it ever has been before and I hope we keep growing that way. So, perhaps it all boils down to perspective.

I don't have any brilliant answers. I personally don't care at all about punishing a crime - I have no connection to that emotionally or spiritually - it's meaningless to me personally, though I understand and respect that others feel attachment to the concept.

I do get that for the greater safety of our society, some people need to be taken out of the mainstream. I have no problem with this. I have no problem with taking them out of the mainstream sooner (after the first crime) and keeping them out of the mainstream longer (for their entire life if you wish).

I do not view all acts the same, but in the end I do not believe that I (or any human being I am currently aware of) have the perspective or wisdom to effectively judge and mete justice. Again, I appreciate the desire to find and render justice - I appreciate that we care enough to take it on. But I think it's safe to say we're not truly up to the task - we don't have the "power" to be up to the task.

If my child is raped and murdered and then someone rapes and murders the perpetrator in the name of justice, how is anything balanced out? My pain is not ameliorated; my family is not made whole; the world is not brightened in any way. Society cannot offer me any real justice, so it serves up the only thing it can offer - bloodthirsty revenge. That works for some, but not for me.
Not many things are black and white for me - I am all swirled up in the beautiful shades of grey Life here presents. But this is simple for me - no higher purpose is served when a human tortures and murders another human.

I have highlighted in red the part of your post I am referring, If your child is raped and murdered, and no one has said any thing about raping and murdering the perp, beheading and crucifying him was the discussion, and I would be all for it. His death is justice for your child, You may not feel justified but as your child gets older, an adult, he/she just might feel the justification, that society felt he/she was worth it. My world, and as a member of society, would be brighter knowing there is one less pedophile stalking my grandchildren. So it is not bloodthirsty revenge, is is justice .

 

[Annie]

I do not object to the death penalty for someone who commits heinous crimes such as this one did. However, I do object to making it a public spectacle where people cheer and watch something like a beheading. I think it dehumanizes people to watch something like this and makes it somewhat akin to the one who gets pleasure out of hurting someone else.
I also object to the family being blamed when they may have nothing to do with the crime, and are just as sick about it as we are. I hate to see murderers and child molesters get off with very little punishment, but NO WAY do I ever want this type of treatment to even the worst offenders where I live. They can be removed from society even by death without making it like a sporting event. Reading about this nauseates me, and seeing so many who think it is okay scares me.

 

[southcitymom]

I do not object to the death penalty for someone who commits heinous crimes such as this one did. However, I do object to making it a public spectacle where people cheer and watch something like a beheading. I think it dehumanizes people to watch something like this and makes it somewhat akin to the one who gets pleasure out of hurting someone else.
I also object to the family being blamed when they may have nothing to do with the crime, and are just as sick about it as we are. I hate to see murderers and child molesters get off with very little punishment, but NO WAY do I ever want this type of treatment to even the worst offenders where I live. They can be removed from society even by death without making it like a sporting event. Reading about this nauseates me, and seeing so many who think it is okay scares me.

Well-stated, though I can't really say it scares me that some folks say they are down with it - the desire for revenge is so very human. I completely agree that the thought of public sport being made of the torture and murder of a human being is repugnant.

Of course, I'm not even a fan of a "humane" death penalty, so it's no real shocker that THIS bothers me. Just reason number *advertiser censored* that I am grateful I do not live in the Middle East.

 

[Reannan]

I have no sympathy for the perpetrator of this crime. He deserved death and can no longer hurt anyone. I am also in support of the death penalty, but I prefer that it be done in a manner that is more civilized than public beheading. I think society is already too violent in general, and while this sort of government sanctioned display of violence would be a deterant to some members of society, I believe it would also provide fuel to evil that was smoldering deep in the souls of other members of society.

 

[Openmind]

This man was not executed in public. It was after his execution that his body was displayed. The Saudi criminal system is simply different from ours, and it is based on their religion.

http://theoriginalgreenwichdiva.com...ller-beheaded-put-on-display-in-saudi-arabia/

Here is an article about the judicial system in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11682.html


I don't think Saudi Arabia gives a hang what the rest of the world thinks about how they manage their criminal system. Obviously, our system would never be this brutal. The bottom line here is if death is an appropriate punishment or a deterrent for sexual crimes in particular against children -- who "really" knows? One thing most people would agree to is child sex offenders cannot be cured. They can only be managed. So no punishment is going to stop them altogether, but I do wonder if fear would deter some. Monsters such as Joseph Duncan escalated his crimes as he managed to avoid detection and even gained freedom due to our "compassion" and "concern" for being fair. How many children are victimized because we keep slapping these perverts' hands, they remain or reenter society, and they continually reoffend? If they thought their punishment would involve more than a court appearance and a passive punishment, I wonder if some would keep their nasty hands to themselves. After all, they are the ultimate cowards. I don't think most sex offenders brutalize and murder a child on their first offense. We need to let those that would abuse our children know they will be punished. And I do mean punished.

I have to admit when I heard of this man's beheading for his horrific crime, I was appalled, but I did think of Jospeh Duncan and think -- if only. I know it is wrong but so is letting a sex offenders become so empowered by lax laws and poor management that they are allowed to keep offending. For the Saudi's this display is a form of management and who really know how many are indeed too afraid to act on their urges for fear of a similar fate. Those possible offenders sure aren't volunteering that information.

 

[southcitymom]

This man was not executed in public. It was after his execution that his body was displayed. The Saudi criminal system is simply different from ours, and it is based on their religion.

http://theoriginalgreenwichdiva.com...ller-beheaded-put-on-display-in-saudi-arabia/

Here is an article about the judicial system in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11682.html


I don't think Saudi Arabia gives a hang what the rest of the world thinks about how they manage their criminal system. Obviously, our system would never be this brutal. The bottom line here is if death is an appropriate punishment or a deterrent for sexual crimes in particular against children -- who "really" knows? One thing most people would agree to is child sex offenders cannot be cured. They can only be managed. So no punishment is going to stop them altogether, but I do wonder if fear would deter some. Monsters such as Joseph Duncan escalated his crimes as he managed to avoid detection and even gained freedom due to our "compassion" and "concern" for being fair. How many children are victimized because we keep slapping these perverts' hands, they remain or reenter society, and they continually reoffend? If they thought their punishment would involve more than a court appearance and a passive punishment, I wonder if some would keep their nasty hands to themselves. After all, they are the ultimate cowards. I don't think most sex offenders brutalize and murder a child on their first offense. We need to let those that would abuse our children know they will be punished. And I do mean punished.

I have to admit when I heard of this man's beheading for his horrific crime, I was appalled, but I did think of Jospeh Duncan and think -- if only. I know it is wrong but so is letting a sex offenders become so empowered by lax laws and poor management that they are allowed to keep offending. For the Saudi's this display is a form of management and who really know how many are indeed too afraid to act on their urges for fear of a similar fate. Those possible offenders sure aren't volunteering that information.

Great post, openmind! Thanks for those links.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I believe that once someone has a *taste* for this type of crime, they will not stop.....at anything. They do not care what damage it causes anyone, I think that is part of the enjoyment. Many of these people have been molested themselves and decide since it was done to them, other people also deserve it, or else it just runs in the family, if you know what I mean. It is a very big power trip for them, and believe me, nothing makes you feel powerless like being molested as a child. I believe it is a little 'tit for tat', in the beginning. Then they start to like it, and due to the internet they can find many other sickos like them, to trade their vile sh*% with, and, like anyone else, once they have found "birds of a feather" they start to feel that what they are doing isn't so bad...you know the good old rationalization of "If everyone else is doing it, it must be acceptable".....or they are "getting you ready for marriage"......or "teaching you how to please your husband"......or "it's been going on for centuries, why is it bad now?".......or "teaching you how to enjoy sex"......or making you responsible for their happiness with "your mother won't, so I need you to take care of me"......blah, blah, blah.....:furious:uke:uke:uke: I saw a TV program with one of these talking about he didn't murder anyone, all he did was touch someone with his tounge, what is so bad about that??????:behindbar It is impossible to get through that kind of denial. And this becomes a deepseated fixation.......I will also say that female pedophilia, which is finally coming to light, is more about anger/power/retribution/debasement than sex. Males are more about sex/power...my uneducated opinion, of course.

All this is a round about way to say that I don't believe there is a solution to pedophiles except either execution or placing them somewhere like Alcatraz for the remainder of their lives, NO PAROLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES... no questions, no appeals, nada. You do the crime, you do the time, and you are not getting out. They could opt for execution, though, if they didn't want LWOP. :woohoo: Could be a general execution lottery if the place get too full. :crazy:

Before this could occur, though, our laws would need to be rewritten. I don't believe a teenager who has consensual sex with another teenager within say a 3-4 yr age difference should be considered an S.O, or *sexting* among similar age groups (not that I think either one is OK).....but a 13 y.o. boy molesting his 6 y.o stepsister for 1-1/2 years in cahoots with his older brother???? Lock both of them up, forever. Period. They are simply the next generation. We would also need some system to determine who is really molesting, and who might just be trying to set someone up. As much as I do not want any more children to suffer, I do not want an innocent person's blood on my hands/conscience....although I will say many S.O.s count on just that attitude to hide under and save themselves with. For me it really comes down to who/what counts for more, the innocent children/victims right to not be abused or molested, or the adult/S.O's right to *innocent until proven guilty*.......:bang:

 

[Clearly Confused]

When it comes to childrend then I don't mind this at all. Kids can't defend themselves so I am all for cutting off "whatever" as long as they are unable to hurt another child.

 

[crystalgenie]

I spent 6 years living in Saudi Arabia. My father worked for Saudi ARAMCO (an oil company). I don't agree with marrying little girls off to old men but I can say cutting a thief's hand off for stealing is a deterrent. I read in a post that they no longer behead or cut hands off in public.. They did in the 1980s. We shopped in all the local towns and cities and I only saw one man missing a hand. The gold souks weren't locked up and there was 18kt, 22kt, and 24kt gold laying all over tables. No one stole anything they knew better. I think public executions are gross however I was in Dammam, Saudi Arabia when there was an execution to take place in the city center. I didn't see people laughing, or getting their knitting (French Revolution) on the way down there.

I have no pity for pedophiles. I could careless how we kill them but they need to be put down. There is no hope for them. If they rape a child, are we to just let them continue when they get out of jail ( the one time they get caught). I don't think so. Pedophiles and rapist being beheaded or executed by any other means may not help the child they attacked but they WILL NOT be able to do it again. So I say execute them by whatever means.

 

[southcitymom]

I spent 6 years living in Saudi Arabia. My father worked for Saudi ARAMCO (an oil company). I don't agree with marrying little girls off to old men but I can say cutting a thief's hand off for stealing is a deterrent. I read in a post that they no longer behead or cut hands off in public.. They did in the 1980s. We shopped in all the local towns and cities and I only saw one man missing a hand. The gold souks weren't locked up and there was 18kt, 22kt, and 24kt gold laying all over tables. No one stole anything they knew better. I think public executions are gross however I was in Dammam, Saudi Arabia when there was an execution to take place in the city center. I didn't see people laughing, or getting their knitting (French Revolution) on the way down there.

I have no pity for pedophiles. I could careless how we kill them but they need to be put down. There is no hope for them. If they rape a child, are we to just let them continue when they get out of jail ( the one time they get caught). I don't think so. Pedophiles and rapist being beheaded or executed by any other means may not help the child they attacked but they WILL NOT be able to do it again. So I say execute them by whatever means.

Welcome to Webslueths, crystalgenie! Thank you for sharing your experiences with Saudi justice - and your opinions.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I don't have a prob with it. Public is good. Back in the good old days (any time before PC took over) nothing beat a good public whipping, hanging, beheading etc. Its good for people to see punishment in action. More people should be put to death for heinous crimes. While I am not a big Arab fan... they do have some good ideas when it comes to punishment for some crimes...

 

[kittenish]

I don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances, and certainly not by beheading. It's a very primitive punishment, especially when there are people being executed for crimes they didn't commit and there is technology to stop these executions.

The worst part about the death penalty, in my opinion, is that someone could commit a crime in one place and get the death penalty, but the exact same crime could be committed elsewhere in the country and receive different punishment. If we're going to use it I think there need to be stricter regulations.

Does murder by government make me any better than a murderer or child molester? Is it going to make me happier or bring back a loved one?

I could go on all day about why I think it's wrong, but I won't.

While I don't agree with the method of punishment, I am glad this man cannot hurt anyone else.

 

[kittenish]

While I am not a big Arab fan...

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes you "not a big Arab fan..."?

 

[passionflower]

Good for them! Maybe there would be less crime if perps knew this would happen to them!