SBI probe into possible juror misconduct

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Thank you. :blushing:

I think that is not only "possible" but it's safe to say IT HAD TO HAVE happened (Cassidy & the Dog were drugged) for the state to prove it's case.

LE said they took note of the hutch and suspected Cassidy was drugged but nothing was done about it. Why didn't they test Cassidy (& the dog) to find out? :banghead:

In addition, there wasn't any evidence JY had access to tranquilizers either. (Kids don't sleep 9 hours from Tylenol)

What REALLY bothers me is that there is no proof EITHER way!

Accordingly, the jury must consider they weren't drugged because he is innocent until proven guilty AND when there are two reasonable theories (they both are) and one points to innocence and the other to guilt, they're supposed to accept the one that points to innocence.

Two simple blood tests would have elimated the question & there's no excuse for that IMO.

[[[ "In addition, there wasn't any evidence JY had access to tranquilizers either. (Kids don't sleep 9 hours from Tylenol)"]]]

Respectfully, (really), I don't believe this carries any weight whatsoever. How easy would it have been to secure any kind of medication that would have worked and carry it in along with the "hit kit". People with "no evidence of access" get drugs everyday. And I think with JY having been in PHARMACEUTICAL SALES, what with the samples and all, he would have had no problem.

Not that I think this is what happened, cause I don't. I lean towards thinking he thought a strangulation would be a silent kill and Cassidy would never wake up.

And while Tylenol 'might' not produce a 9 hour sleep, I have personally known Benadryl to do that to a young child and it scared the young mother. There's plenty more options also that would work. I hope none were used on little CY.
 
Two drugs were found on the shelf in CY's bedroom hutch.

1. Tylenol Adult Rapid Blast liquid in cherry flavor
2. Pancof-D (an adult narcotic, manufactured by the co. JY used to work for, in a sample size)

The 2 meds were found mixed together, and some of the residue was inside the dropper and CY's DNA was found on the end that goes in the mouth. Some of the liquid had also oozed out of the dropper and onto the shelf itself. This shelf was far above where CY could reach.

JY told his mother that his own fingerprints would likely be found on that dropper. This is in testimony by Mrs. Young. His fingerprints were not found on the dropper, but I find it interesting that he never ever discussed this case with anyone, including his family...except when he obviously did. And he zero'd in on that dropper with a pre-confession to his mother.
 
Two drugs were found on the shelf in CY's bedroom hutch.

1. Tylenol Adult Rapid Blast liquid in cherry flavor
2. Pancof-D (an adult narcotic, manufactured by the co. JY used to work for, in a sample size)

The 2 meds were found mixed together, and some of the residue was inside the dropper and CY's DNA was found on the end that goes in the mouth. Some of the liquid had also oozed out of the dropper and onto the shelf itself. This shelf was far above where CY could reach.

JY told his mother that his own fingerprints would likely be found on that dropper. This is in testimony by Mrs. Young. His fingerprints were not found on the dropper, but I find it interesting that he never ever discussed this case with anyone, including his family...except when he obviously did. And he zero'd in on that dropper with a pre-confession to his mother.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I guess this shows I'm not nearly as informed as I should be?

So, if he told his mother this, did he also tell her when it was used last and for what in that same conversation?

And, btw, for what purpose WOULD this be used (other than the murder)? Did CY's pediatrician approve this cocktail EVER? Was MY ever known to have given this to CY?

Sorry I don't know these things. I'm so glad you are very well informed and willing to share. Thanks.
 
Oh, and while we're talking about it, leaving the dropper exposed in the open on a nonsterile surface and oozing seems to show EITHER a hurried action under pressure and time constraints OR a lackadaisical attitude toward his daughter's wellbeing. After reading his emails to MY, it's about what I would expect.
 
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
So, if he told his mother this, did he also tell her when it was used last and for what in that same conversation?

Apparently that convo occurred around the time the investigators came up to visit the Young house in Brevard. 2007 time frame I think. Pat Young inquired to Spivey and Blackwell about the DNA test given earlier to CY and then made a comment about the medicine dropper and something about JY's prints might be on that dropper. (this is in PY's testimony in trial #2).

And, btw, for what purpose WOULD this be used (other than the murder)? Did CY's pediatrician approve this cocktail EVER? Was MY ever known to have given this to CY?
No doctor would ever advise a parent to give their toddler a narcotic medicine nor any medicine intended for adults, nor mix adult drugs. There was no testimony that Michelle Young ever gave her daughter an adult med or ever would. Purpose of giving a toddler a combo like that? Not for medicinal purposes, IMO.
 
welcome to websleuths HarleyP!!! You are doing just fine! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

to reply to your post, I find it possible that Jason Young drugged his dog and his child with the medicine


Hmmmmm, Nurse -- the dog -- never thunk it -- till now.... Hmmmm.... You may be onto something. Why not? Hmmmmm. Good thought!
 
Thank you. :blushing:

I think that is not only "possible" but it's safe to say IT HAD TO HAVE happened (Cassidy & the Dog were drugged) for the state to prove it's case.

LE said they took note of the hutch and suspected Cassidy was drugged but nothing was done about it. Why didn't they test Cassidy (& the dog) to find out? :banghead:

In addition, there wasn't any evidence JY had access to tranquilizers either. (Kids don't sleep 9 hours from Tylenol)

*****


The medicine dropper with CY's DNA on the dropper end had a mixture of Adult Strength Tylenol & Pancof, an adult medication containing codine. A medication JLY had in his home because a previous job of his was as a drug rep. for the company that produced that med.

PY stated to investigators that her son, JLY, admitted his fingerprints & DNA would be on that dropper because in the past he had used it to medicate his daughter.

The significance of that dropper and the meds in it wouldn't become evident until the lab analyzed what was in the dropper. By the time those tests would come back, the medication would already be out of the system of both CY & Mr. G.
 
I'm back, and aiming to be on my best behavior. :)

I felt such relief last Monday afternoon. Finally, a jury reached the only unanimous verdict 12 people would ever find in this case. Like many in the Triangle region and even beyond, I've followed this case since day 1. Last year's mistrial was shocking, especially that 8 people would have voted not guilty. Those who feel so strongly about this case must never forget it took 4 people to hang that jury, and you can imagine it was a hard thing to not waiver in their conviction. They will never receive the public commendation, but we are grateful.

As to some post-verdict reaction. Judge Stephens' comments in denying the motion to set aside were concise and so very powerful. He crystallized it so well in noting that none of Jason and Michelle Young would've been surprised if law enforcement found Jason had beaten her badly but not killed her. Why then indeed, was it a surprise that his violence in fact killed Michelle? I doubt Jason has ever felt a shred of remorse for what he did. He is a sociopath, and Judge Stephens hinted at this as well. I found it interesting as well that in sentencing him, he did not say "Mr. Young, please stand up..." It was just, "Jason Young,..." I.e., I will not dignify you with the title of "Mr. Young".

Finally, I rewatched the defense closing arguments last week. In hindsight it is very easy to assess but I would argue that if you knew nothing about this case and only watched the defense's closing, you would vote guilty. As strong as Klinkosum and Collins were as a team, in the end they had an unwinnable case because their client was so clearly guilty. When I heard them both argue that the killer spent time with Cassidy and cleaned her up, and both argue that Jason Young's shoe may have been present, I put myself in a juror's position. The defendant's client tells you the killer stayed with Cassidy for some time. They tried to sell the idea that Jason would not have had time to commit the crime and get back to Virginia. That was just a bad tactical decision. I don't even listen to the timeline argument relative to the idea that the defendant's own attorney has the killer tending to a 2-year-old child. A random killer might not have hurt her, but no sensible argument can be made that a random killer would clean the child and care for her in any way unless he knew and cared for that child. They admit his shoe may have left the print. As a juror, I would have seen Young's prior testimony that the shoes had been donated to Goodwill.

Now as for the misconduct probe, I hope some of you saw the facebook page of the woman in the Burlington area who started all this. It was down fast last week after the news came out. This woman is obviously a kook. Her entire facebook wall was about criminal cases that involved the Triad. Jason's Cracker Barrel stop and references to driving through Burlington were fairly frequent in the trial. I have zero doubt whatsoever that any juror was talking with a darn hairdresser. And similarly that any juror would be running their mouth at a bar to some stranger. It'd be quite easy for someone to make up lies like that though. A real headscratcher to see people cling to the lamest of possible technicalities, that are transparently false. Laughably false if this weren't a serious matter. I hope the SBI will charge someone following the investigation. Someone should be made an example.

In the end, thank goodness that justice was served. Jason Young, convicted and locked away forever.
 
I'm back, and aiming to be on my best behavior. :)

I felt such relief last Monday afternoon. Finally, a jury reached the only unanimous verdict 12 people would ever find in this case. Like many in the Triangle region and even beyond, I've followed this case since day 1. Last year's mistrial was shocking, especially that 8 people would have voted not guilty. Those who feel so strongly about this case must never forget it took 4 people to hang that jury, and you can imagine it was a hard thing to not waiver in their conviction. They will never receive the public commendation, but we are grateful.

As to some post-verdict reaction. Judge Stephens' comments in denying the motion to set aside were concise and so very powerful. He crystallized it so well in noting that none of Jason and Michelle Young would've been surprised if law enforcement found Jason had beaten her badly but not killed her. Why then indeed, was it a surprise that his violence in fact killed Michelle? I doubt Jason has ever felt a shred of remorse for what he did. He is a sociopath, and Judge Stephens hinted at this as well. I found it interesting as well that in sentencing him, he did not say "Mr. Young, please stand up..." It was just, "Jason Young,..." I.e., I will not dignify you with the title of "Mr. Young".

Finally, I rewatched the defense closing arguments last week. In hindsight it is very easy to assess but I would argue that if you knew nothing about this case and only watched the defense's closing, you would vote guilty. As strong as Klinkosum and Collins were as a team, in the end they had an unwinnable case because their client was so clearly guilty. When I heard them both argue that the killer spent time with Cassidy and cleaned her up, and both argue that Jason Young's shoe may have been present, I put myself in a juror's position. The defendant's client tells you the killer stayed with Cassidy for some time. They tried to sell the idea that Jason would not have had time to commit the crime and get back to Virginia. That was just a bad tactical decision. I don't even listen to the timeline argument relative to the idea that the defendant's own attorney has the killer tending to a 2-year-old child. A random killer might not have hurt her, but no sensible argument can be made that a random killer would clean the child and care for her in any way unless he knew and cared for that child. They admit his shoe may have left the print. As a juror, I would have seen Young's prior testimony that the shoes had been donated to Goodwill.

Now as for the misconduct probe, I hope some of you saw the facebook page of the woman in the Burlington area who started all this. It was down fast last week after the news came out. This woman is obviously a kook. Her entire facebook wall was about criminal cases that involved the Triad. Jason's Cracker Barrel stop and references to driving through Burlington were fairly frequent in the trial. I have zero doubt whatsoever that any juror was talking with a darn hairdresser. And similarly that any juror would be running their mouth at a bar to some stranger. It'd be quite easy for someone to make up lies like that though. A real headscratcher to see people cling to the lamest of possible technicalities, that are transparently false. Laughably false if this weren't a serious matter. I hope the SBI will charge someone following the investigation. Someone should be made an example.

In the end, thank goodness that justice was served. Jason Young, convicted and locked away forever.

Well said, fred. :fence:
 
As for the medicine dropper on the shelf,...............it did have CY's dna and JY's dna as well. There were droplets on the shelf, indicating the child, at some time must have been given the medicine. Whether it was the night in question is open for debate. But I don't recall the jury saying that had anything to do with their guilty verdict.

SMB BBM

It dit NOT have JY's DNA on it. It did though have a print which did not match JY nor the approximately 160 people tested; nor was there a match in CODIS. Only the unknown print and CY's DNA was found as per the testimony:

A medicine dropper that contained traces of both substances, as well as Cassidy's DNA, was also seized. Defense attorneys pointed out that Jason Young's prints were not on the dropper or the Tylenol bottle, but a print that investigators could not connect to any of the people tested was on the Tylenol cap


Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06...-with-mother.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy
 
As someone who believes in our justice system, I couldn't agree more. Keep in mind that AT THIS TIME the SBI is investigating juror misconduct only as it relates to the alleged text messages. However, the defense attorneys will be appealing and IMO this is something that will be brought up in their appeal.

Yesterday I was looking for information concerning a juror comment they had compared the jeans & shoes to a photo (I want to see for myself) and I came across several comments regarding the jurors considering facts not in evidence implying that the jurors improperly compared the jeans in evidence to the photo and they weren't allowed to. IDK the legal basis for the comment, if there is one, but if that is true it will no doubt be looked at by defense for appeal as well.

Not to be repetitive but I too hope the SBI does a through investigation. I have said I didn't think the state proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt, but was willing to accept the verdict. I AM WILLING to accept an untainted guilty verdict so SBI, get on with it!

I suspect that this investigation may lead them down some different paths.

<modsnip>
 
I have to say I did find humor that it was the hairdresser. Of course, we know that is a hot bed of gossip. The sides were wrong, but those numbers were dead on, 7 to 4, and 9 to 3. With the 9 to 3 they did get the 9 guilty but said 3 NG.

We will see when the SBI finishes its results. I am also curious about the juror alleged to have discussed this case before deliberation.

The numbers were right on the money.

The question I have is when was the judge informed of this?

Was it prior to the verdict being read?
 
SMB BBM

It dit NOT have JY's DNA on it. It did though have a print which did not match JY nor the approximately 160 people tested; nor was there a match in CODIS. Only the unknown print and CY's DNA was found as per the testimony:

A medicine dropper that contained traces of both substances, as well as Cassidy's DNA, was also seized. Defense attorneys pointed out that Jason Young's prints were not on the dropper or the Tylenol bottle, but a print that investigators could not connect to any of the people tested was on the Tylenol cap


Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06...-with-mother.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

I'm curious about the Aquafina bottle on the chest#below the tylenol and pancof. Does anyone know was it tested for DNA? Was it ever investigated to see if the lot# matched the lot#'s at the HI? If that bottle is one of the TWO bottles we see in JY's hand after he checks in couldn't they have been matched up?
He OBVIOUSLY had a MAJOR case of cotton mouth. I could see him leaving the water bottle behind,but I don't think it was ever delved into very much.

True they could have had Aquafina at the house and perhaps the lot#'s would be the same as at the HI. The water bottle is bugging me!
IMO there is something CONCRETE that ties him to the HI and no one has figured it out yet!

#50 http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9726666/

#38
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9727548/
 
I was under the impression that besides the issue of the juror allegedly passing along deliberation status updates to a gossipy hairdresser friend, there was another juror that was possibly doing something wrong as well.

I didn't want to mention this 2nd juror until I remembreed where I read it, so I could provide you guys with the link:

Article in the Raleigh News & Observer



Their comments certainly have been attacked, and deservedly so. when the judge tells you that you that "the defendant's decision not to answer questions by law enforcement officers during the criminal investigation may not be considered against him as evidence of guilt to the pending charge." and you go on TV and say that one of the main reasons you convicted him was because of "the fact that he didn't talk," then those of us who believe in a justice system are going to attack those comments.

I know that police shows and redneck folklore have put the idea in people's heads that "if you hire an attorney, then you have something to hide." People seem to forget that it's our constitutional right, and EVEN THE COPS get attorneys when they're being looked at for a crime -- they only imply that guilty people hire lawyers when they're trying to get a statement, because unless they have PC to arrest, you're walking out the door if you ask for a lawyer. It's an investigative tool, and a pawn in the game of cop -vs- suspect... but for some reason, people treat it like it's gospel, even when a judge says not to.

OK - BACK ON TRACK :)

I've seen allegations against two of the jurors, definitely not just the one. BUt, like most people have been stating, the SBI will be able to get the issue of texts and phone calls pretty quickly. Tracking down their physical movements and talking to the people they spoke with will take longer and be more difficult. I only have two hopes - that they actually do a THOROUGH investigation on both parts, and that they provide the public with their investigative report.

Thanks for this. This was also my understanding but with being out of town I have not had the opportunity to look deeper into it.
 
I'm curious about the Aquafina bottle on the chest#below the tylenol and pancof. Does anyone know was it tested for DNA? Was it ever investigated to see if the lot# matched the lot#'s at the HI? If that bottle is one of the TWO bottles we see in JY's hand after he checks in couldn't they have been matched up?
He OBVIOUSLY had a MAJOR case of cotton mouth. I could see him leaving the water bottle behind,but I don't think it was ever delved into very much.

True they could have had Aquafina at the house and perhaps the lot#'s would be the same as at the HI. The water bottle is bugging me!
IMO there is something CONCRETE that ties him to the HI and no one has figured it out yet!

#50 http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9726666/

#38 http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9727548/

IIRC I do not recall any testimony regarding the water bottle or DNA results pertaining to same. That does not mean to say that it was not tested.

If I am understanding your line of reasoning here you are stating that if JY's DNA was on the bottle that the bottle would connect him to the HI.

I would think if JY's DNA was found on this bottle it would of been brought into evidence. Since it was not IIRC, maybe there is unknown DNA on the bottle....
 
IIRC I do not recall any testimony regarding the water bottle or DNA results pertaining to same. That does not mean to say that it was not tested.

If I am understanding your line of reasoning here you are stating that if JY's DNA was on the bottle that the bottle would connect him to the HI.

I would think if JY's DNA was found on this bottle it would of been brought into evidence. Since it was not IIRC, maybe there is unknown DNA on the bottle....

I just thought if the lot # matched to the HI the water bottle could have been tied to the HI. I doubt that VA has the same delivery men as the local groger they used.

I never heard if it was checked into further. Even a manufatured on date that matched the HI would prove it was not from the home. Hotels get water in BULK!
~jmo


ETA:They are production codes! not lot #'s
It tells where it was bottled, when it was bottled,
what line it was bottled on and the date it ran.
 
We are not discussing other posters. This thread is for discussion about the SBI probe into the unsubstantiated facebook posts.
 
For anyone with hopes up that the judge will need to (or think it advisable; did he really sound like he thought JY got a raw deal? nope) to toss out the jury verdict if the juror texted the initial count splits to the hairdresser, it might be helpful to read this language from the North Carolina Court of Appeals (BBM - hard for me to see how texting splits would meet this standard of misconduct):

"Generally a motion for mistrial is a matter addressed to the sound discretion of the judge, and absent a showing of abuse of discretion the ruling will not be disturbed on appeal. This is so even when the basis of the motion for mistrial is misconduct affecting the jury. A new trial will be granted only where a conversation between a third person and a juror is of such a character as is calculated to impress the case upon the mind of the juror in a different aspect than was presented by the evidence in the courtroom, or is of such a nature as is calculated to result in harm to a party on trial. Finally, a trial court is held to have abused its discretion only when its ruling is so arbitrary that it could not have been the result of a reasoned decision.
State v. Gardner, 322 N.C. 591, 593-94, 369 S.E.2d 593, 595 (1988) (emphasis in original) (citations, quotation marks, and brackets omitted). " [A] mistrial is a drastic remedy, warranted only for such serious improprieties as would make it impossible to attain a
fair and impartial verdict.
" State v. Dye, --- N.C.App. ----, ----, 700 S.E.2d 135, 140 (2010) (emphasis added) (citation, quotation marks, and brackets omitted). Pursuant to N.C. Gen.Stat. § 15A-1061,

Upon motion of a defendant or with his concurrence the judge may declare a mistrial at any time during the trial. The judge must declare a mistrial upon the defendant's motion if there occurs during the trial an error or legal defect in the proceedings, or conduct inside or outside the courtroom, resulting in substantial and irreparable prejudice to the defendant's case.
N.C. Gen.Stat. § 15A-1061 (2007) (emphasis added)."
 
Do we have an update on this investigation yet? It seems to be taking a very long time.

Salem
 
It's going to end just like it always does .. like the monkey business between the forensic lab and the prosecutor's office. The inquiry into whether there were irregularities in the jury will be swept under the carpet as a "nothing". That'll be that, and the question of whether one jury member was communicating with the public during deliberations will be made to appear as nothing more than a hair appointment.
 
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