SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class - #2

[K_Z]

(modsnip)

Boy-- that didn't take long, lol! The "car" has now been removed from the narrative on the fundraiser page, and it now says "transportation":

The funds raised for Ms. Kenny will go towards counseling, transportation, and future educational expenses.

However, Todd Rutherford, in his 8 min radio interview, clearly discusses that both online fundraisers are for "defense funds", which he says will be expensive and prolonged. He also mentions medical and educational expenses, but as the first student is in foster care, and public school, that's a bit, er, "disingenuous," to be polite. Her medical expenses would be covered by the state.

The funds raised will be put towards medical costs, educational expenses, and any other expenses she has to endure.

Another article did say she spent the night monday in a hospital, and is wearing a cast or splint. Rutherford says he met at "5:30 in the morning" with the student and her mother, then the mother and grandmother separately. So the family is involved with this student in some manner, despite the foster care placement. It doesn't sound like they are estranged socially or legally.

TR also has at least one complaint online for taking funds from a client, not appearing in court with the client as promised, and refusing to refund any of the client's money after the fact. But who knows what the circumstances of that situation were. The client claims to have agreed in court, since TR didn't appear, to plead guilty and pay $60 to resolve the situation without him.

Anyway, my prediction is NK will either get her charges dropped, or will agree to plead with something like community service. I think the first student (mods-can we use a first initial to identify her?) will have a much harder time getting her charges dropped, and may have to go thru the legal process. I doubt she will pay a fine or see any jail time, which I'm fine with, but I would like to see her receive some kind of consequences for her behavior. I'd be fine with some community service, but I think the more appropriate (and relevant!) consequences, as I posted before, are written and in-person apologies, with a few days of in school suspension, and a behavior contract. That is the level of punishment that fits her behavior, in accordance with their school rules in the handbook. IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

I agree with the bolded part. However, the fact that there were nearly 1,200 cases of "disturbing schools" tells me there is quite a problem with this sort of thing.

I could ask what people would suggest instead of landing disruptive students in the justice system, but there were was a plethora of suggestions in the past few days. I would rather ask why something isn't "state" mandated to work with the families of these disruptive students, a program that would get to the root of the problem instead of applying a rap sheet to the students - any suggestions on how to implement that sort of thing?

:cow:

I think the criminalization of (subjectively) bad student behavior is happening in part because it allows schools to circumvent the extremely difficult legal and social problems involved with disciplining students.

Schools can't count on parental support (for all kinds of reasons good and bad), can't expel kids for anything much less than full scale violence,and don't want to because then those kids will be on the streets without supervision.

Ditto with suspensions, though the bar to get there is lower.
On and on. It is definitely easier for the school to simply criminalize the behavior and make an arrest. That's paying the debt forward in so many ways, but I can on paper at least understand the temptation..

 

[Trident]

I think the criminalization of (subjectively) bad student behavior is happening in part because it allows schools to circumvent the extremely difficult legal and social problems involved with disciplining students.

Schools can't count on parental support (for all kinds of reasons good and bad), can't expel kids for anything much less than full scale violence,and don't want to because then those kids will be on the streets without supervision.

Ditto with suspensions, though the bar to get there is lower.
On and on. It is definitely easier for the school to simply criminalize the behavior and make an arrest. That's paying the debt forward in so many ways, but I can on paper at least understand the temptation..

ITA. However, the bolded part is what I want to see changed. Too bad if the parents don't want to cooperate - give them some legal consequences. These kids didn't birth themselves and it's high time the ones who did take responsibility. If not, make the disruptive kids wards of the state, and let the state keep them in line if they can.

I'm so sick of protests, looting, riots, and now disruptive behavior in schools. There is no end to it, nor will there be the way our justice system/country is going. One needs to get to the ROOT of the problem - the parents/culture - stop putting a bandaid on cancer.

 

[kimlynn]

You know what I wouldn't want everyone to see is me acting disobedient to my school teacher while ignoring her request to put away the phone, that is not legal to access during lecture hours. I would feel shameful for disrespecting my school's principal by defying the authoritative request, once again, to put the phone away and, thirdly, there is no way that I would have disobeyed a police officer's request that I get out of my desk. Those are the things this student shouldn't want to be seen go viral. If my child were in that classroom, I would immediately request either the troublemaker be removed from the class or my child, my student, be moved into a less disruptive class and placed into one more conducive for learning.

From the video that I've viewed, never in a million years could I identify her in a line-up because her face was not clearly featured in the vid. I'd like to have access to her school records since I feel certain this was not her first obstinate classroom interruption. It's just the one, of total disregard to the other students, who are there to earn an education, that went so far as to have a police officer called to perform his duty then ends up being fired for doing so.

I don't think you will be able to have access to her school records and nor should anyone in the general public be able to.
I think if any shame is to be felt it should be the LE officer in this case. IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't think you will be able to have access to her school records and nor should anyone in the general public be able to.
I think if any shame is to be felt it should be the LE officer in this case. IMO

If she applied for college they could access that info. I don't see that being an issue here. Folks that have issues (as far as the college is concerned) would just be denied admission. jmo idk

 

[JeannaT]

If she applied for college they could access that info. I don't see that being an issue here. Folks that have issues (as far as the college is concerned) would just be denied admission. jmo idk

When you apply to college, you send your transcript that includes your courses taken, grades, may have class rank, and may have your SAT and ACT scores attached to it, but may not. There isn't a discipline record attached.

 

[Elley Mae]

When you apply to college, you send your transcript that includes your courses taken, grades, may have class rank, and may have your SAT and ACT scores attached to it, but may not. There isn't a discipline record attached.

They have been doing it for years, as far as I know. I told my daughter back in the day that as far as I know they can go back at far as 9th grade for grades so I would assume they can get that as well. BTW she didn't take her cell phone to school & graduated Principals Honor roll & she took advanced placement classes & graduated UMBC in the top 5% of the class, magna *advertiser censored* laude Yeah I'm proud.

Unfair Admissions Criteria?

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...ges-consider-high-school-disciplinary-records

 

[JeannaT]

Interesting. I don't know how they would do this. I have two kids in college right now, and they certainly didn't have to submit disciplinary records when applying. I looked at the Texas Common Application, and there isn't even a place to check if you're a convicted murderer. The only thing they ask you even vaguely related is if you are currently on academic suspension from another college.

Then, you go to your counselor's office and pay a small fee and tell them where to send your transcript, and at that time they give you a copy of what they're sending. I can't imagine the college has the right to ask the school for discipline records, without letting the students give permission.

 

[K_Z]

About 600 colleges and universities use The Common Application system, which asks about disciplinary history and criminal history.

https://www.commonapp.org/plan-ahead

- Almost three-quarters of colleges and universities collect high school disciplinary information (many through the question on the subject included on the Common Application).

Of those that collect the information, 89 percent report that they use the information in admissions decisions.

- Of the colleges that collect the information, only 25 percent have formal, written policies on how to use the information.

- Only 30 percent of colleges have trained their admissions staff to interpret disciplinary violation findings.

NYU is a Common Application institution that thus obtains information about applicants' criminal and disciplinary pasts. With regard to criminal convictions, NYU will now do a first round of evaluations without knowledge of whether applicants checked the box indicating a criminal record.

But before an offer of admission is extended, a second review will take place in which the information will be shared with an admissions team "specially trained" on how to evaluate such information, including the potential of bias in various parts of the process. Previously this information was available to admissions officers throughout the process, as is the norm at many institutions.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...ges-consider-high-school-disciplinary-records

The article is correct that there is a serious and difficult issue of how to proceed with students who have a criminal history, or a disciplinary history of violence (fighting, etc), when blindly placing students into on-campus living arrangements. Students should have some right to know the person they have been assigned to live with and share a bathroom with, etc-- does not have a history of violence, sexual assault, etc. Some schools have handled this by admitting the students, and barring them from on-campus housing.

Anyway, from what I've heard from high school post-secondary counselors, the best way for prospective college students who have a disciplinary record to deal with it is to write a letter describing what happened, and how they have "changed their ways" since the occurence, along with letters from respected administrators (principals, guidance counselors, etc), describing how the student has grown, learned, and changed from the episode/s that the student was suspended for. If it was just a one time thing, and not a serious situation, and the student otherwise meets college admission criteria, there is a good chance most schools will overlook a one-time suspension that was for something like "disrespect" or similar. The issue for the student, as I understand it, is not to play "didja catch me checking the boxes?" on the applications, but to show maturity and address the issue proactively during the admissions process.

Also- Many colleges will ask about this during interviews, if they have an interview as part of the admission process.

I'll also throw in that a criminal history is a real problem for some areas of study leading to a license, such as health care. I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to overcome a criminal history of any sort and still achieve admission to some areas of study that lead to a license. Our students have to have background checks as a part of their application to do student work with patients. Hard to get student liability insurance with a criminal history, as well.

 

[RANCH]

Hopefully the student will learn that bad behavior can affect your life at a later date and act appropriately in the future. JMO

 

[K_Z]

One last thought about college admission when the prospective student has a disciplinary and/ or criminal record.

There ARE plenty of schools, especially community colleges, who will "open enroll" any student who applies. (Even inmates in prison!) That is definitely an option for a student with a "difficult history". The student can apply and demonstrate success in that environment for a year or so, then re-apply to the institutions with higher standards, showing how much they have grown and matured. How they have avoided any further disciplinary or criminal activity, etc, while getting good grades and working hard at being a good student. I think a lot of higher level universities would be open to giving that kind of student a chance to succeed further.

It's all about personal responsibility and accountability, IMO-- not blaming everyone but yourself for your own behavior and consequences. Those who persistently act out, defy authority, and blame others for their own behavior, seldom do well in most areas of life, IMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Numerous people in education, law enforcement and beyond have spoken out, saying the clear function of school resource officers is not to intervene in routine discipline matters in schools, such as in the Spring Valley incident, which reportedly stemmed from the student’s refusal to surrender her cellphone and leave the classroom.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article42104361.html#storylink=cpy

“School resource officers should be trained to decline invitations to intervene when situations don’t involve serious threats or more serious crimes,”

Teachers and administrators “have a wide range of school consequences they can impose on a disobedient student,”

I don't know what the answer is but nothing will convince me that manhandling and slamming the student onto the concrete was it.

 

[Elley Mae]

Numerous people in education, law enforcement and beyond have spoken out, saying the clear function of school resource officers is not to intervene in routine discipline matters in schools, such as in the Spring Valley incident, which reportedly stemmed from the student’s refusal to surrender her cellphone and leave the classroom.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article42104361.html#storylink=cpy





I don't know what the answer is but nothing will convince me that manhandling and slamming the student onto the concrete was it.

I don't know the details, but it did seem to be a bit much. I do wonder how it was relayed, verbally from the teacher not getting her to cooperate to having to call in the administrator to having to call in the rso, what was said to the admin by the teacher and what was said to fields and by whom as to the nature of the problem. Not excusing what some perceive as too much force, but it would be interesting to know what was said from one to the other about the student that would not cooperate after numerous instructions to do so.

O/T I now remember that my oldest sister was told in elementary school to color the tree black, well she colored the tree green and got an E. My mother asked why would you ask a child to color a tree black? The teacher said it was a test of... following directions/orders. It was that simple. jmo idk

 

[magnolia]

Numerous people in education, law enforcement and beyond have spoken out, saying the clear function of school resource officers is not to intervene in routine discipline matters in schools, such as in the Spring Valley incident, which reportedly stemmed from the student’s refusal to surrender her cellphone and leave the classroom.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article42104361.html#storylink=cpy





I don't know what the answer is but nothing will convince me that manhandling and slamming the student onto the concrete was it.

BBM-Concrete? The Sheriff mentioned the girl may have carpet burn.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

ITA. However, the bolded part is what I want to see changed. Too bad if the parents don't want to cooperate - give them some legal consequences. These kids didn't birth themselves and it's high time the ones who did take responsibility. If not, make the disruptive kids wards of the state, and let the state keep them in line if they can.

I'm so sick of protests, looting, riots, and now disruptive behavior in schools. There is no end to it, nor will there be the way our justice system/country is going. One needs to get to the ROOT of the problem - the parents/culture - stop putting a bandaid on cancer.

In our school districts, you don 't get expelled, you get sent to an alternative school that you have to wear white shirts, kaki slacks, and black shoes. You don 't interact with other students, and most want to get back to their home school at the end of their infraction. If it was for fighting you will be taken in handcuffs to the police station and have to appear in court and the judge (if first time) will send you to the school AND to anger management classes.

What happened to resecpt for your elders and authority ? I am in no way giving the r so any slack
. He didn t need to manhandled her. They could of cleared the classroom so she wouldn't of been playing tough for her peers, and talk to her, explain what was going to happen, and hand over her phone. In our school if you're on the phone in class it's taken up and you have to pay a fine to get it back.

 

[magnolia]

In our school districts, you don 't get expelled, you get sent to an alternative school that you have to wear white shirts, kaki slacks, and black shoes. You don 't interact with other students, and most want to get back to their home school at the end of their infraction. If it was for fighting you will be taken in handcuffs to the police station and have to appear in court and the judge (if first time) will send you to the school AND to anger management classes.

What happened to resecpt for your elders and authority ? I am in no way giving the r so any slack
. He didn t need to manhandled her. They could of cleared the classroom so she wouldn't of been playing tough for her peers, and talk to her, explain what was going to happen, and hand over her phone. In our school if you're on the phone in class it's taken up and you have to pay a fine to get it back.

All sounds good to me. I think all schools should adopt these policies. I bet the students think twice about taking their phone out in class.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't know the details, but it did seem to be a bit much. I do wonder how it was relayed, verbally from the teacher not getting her to cooperate to having to call in the administrator to having to call in the rso, what was said to the admin by the teacher and what was said to fields and by whom as to the nature of the problem. Not excusing what some perceive as too much force, but it would be interesting to know what was said from one to the other about the student that would not cooperate after numerous instructions to do so.

O/T I now remember that my oldest sister was told in elementary school to color the tree black, well she colored the tree green and got an E. My mother asked why would you ask a child to color a tree black? The teacher said it was a test of... following directions/orders. It was that simple. jmo idk

About black trees and also OT-

In my elementary school back in the day, the only principal (no assistants necessary) patrolled the hallways with a paddle in hand.

We were not allowed to talk AT ALL during lunch and she sat on the stage, paddle in hand , to enforce that rule. Imagine a school cafeteria filled with 100 plus 1-6 graders all eating, silently.

One day, my back to her, I whispered to my friend sitting next to me. That principal couldn't possibly have seen my lips move, much less heard me. No matter. She boomed out my name, told me to stop eating, and to report to her office when everyone else had finished eating.

I was terrified. Went to her office fully expecting to get actually beaten. She pointed to a chair, told me to sit, and for the rest of the day- HOURS- had me write over and over- " I will not talk at lunch. I will not talk at lunch. Pages and pages and pages. When dismissal bell rang she walked over, paddle in hand, and I thought...now it comes.

She grabbed the pages of writing, tore them in half, and told me she never wanted to see me in her office again. Yah. She never did.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

BBM-Concrete? The Sheriff mentioned the girl may have carpet burn.

I use carpet burn/brush burn interchangeably to mean skin injury from friction against any surface. Concrete is under whatever the floor covering is. Fwiw I've never been in a carpeted classroom.

Floor would have been a better choice of words. No matter what the flooring material is it doesn't change anything for me...just splitting hairs IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

In our school districts, you don 't get expelled, you get sent to an alternative school that you have to wear white shirts, kaki slacks, and black shoes. You don 't interact with other students, and most want to get back to their home school at the end of their infraction. If it was for fighting you will be taken in handcuffs to the police station and have to appear in court and the judge (if first time) will send you to the school AND to anger management classes.

What happened to resecpt for your elders and authority ? I am in no way giving the r so any slack
. He didn t need to manhandled her. They could of cleared the classroom so she wouldn't of been playing tough for her peers, and talk to her, explain what was going to happen, and hand over her phone. In our school if you're on the phone in class it's taken up and you have to pay a fine to get it back.

I really like the idea of an alternative school - removes the kid, is a real consequence, kids hate social isolation, doesn't require parental involvement, and leaves cops out of the handling of routine problems.

As for cuffing kids for violence, hauling them into court, and making them take anger management classes?? Bravo, and where the heck is that? What a favor to those kids, whether they see it that way at the time or not.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I don't know the details, but it did seem to be a bit much. I do wonder how it was relayed, verbally from the teacher not getting her to cooperate to having to call in the administrator to having to call in the rso, what was said to the admin by the teacher and what was said to fields and by whom as to the nature of the problem. Not excusing what some perceive as too much force, but it would be interesting to know what was said from one to the other about the student that would not cooperate after numerous instructions to do so.

O/T I now remember that my oldest sister was told in elementary school to color the tree black, well she colored the tree green and got an E. My mother asked why would you ask a child to color a tree black? The teacher said it was a test of... following directions/orders. It was that simple. jmo idk

I have no idea what the exchange was between the adults and likely will never know. I usually deal in facts and my life experiences.

As to the OT - being able to follow rules and directions is important. There are acceptable consequences for not following them as in your sister getting an E.