scotland yard investigation

[SapphireSteel]

they have not lost a libel case - they go to court for the first time in libel supposedly this month vrs Amaral - I didn't ask if they had been to ciourt I answered the wrong claim that they had lost a libel case. which they haven't

Technically they haven't lost yet and I misspoke. I apologise.

BUT the attempt to reach an out-of-court settlement with Amaral was pretty much a white flag.

I do not believe they wish to be placed in any courtroom and thus far, they've avoided it.

Amaral refused their offer, principled individual that he is, and he is going to have his day in court, as indeed are Gerry and Kate.

I can't wait.




:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

DNA exists everywhere for goodness sake = I shake hands with a person I transfer DNA

They found a minute amount of DNA in the boot that came from at least there people or maybe five three of these were direct relatives in which Madeleine shares 100% of DNA - its not difficult - hence the FSS scientiosts were categoric in their concklusions -

The difference being, you don't transfer cadaver scent when you shake hands, because you're still alive.

The dogs found cadaver at the DNA locations...or more properly, LE found DNA at the cadaver sites.

The DNA found is consistent with Madeleine.

The DNA found in the Renault had dripped under the carpet and wheel frame therefore the "minute" amount could not possibly be dismissed as transference.

Now, about that IDI evidence that makes you so certain the McCanns are innocent....?

:seeya:

 

[gord]

The difference being, you don't transfer cadaver scent when you shake hands, because you're still alive.

The dogs found cadaver at the DNA locations...or more properly, LE found DNA at the cadaver sites.

The DNA found is consistent with Madeleine.

The DNA found in the Renault had dripped under the carpet and wheel frame therefore the "minute" amount could not possibly be dismissed as transference.

Now, about that IDI evidence that makes you so certain the McCanns are innocent....?

:seeya:

Of course there is no direct evidence that proves abduction - otherwise the case would probably be solved by now !

Just as there is no direct evidence proving parental involvement - no evidence of a body , no evidence of where the body was stashed , no evidence of how the body was moved to a car , no evidence of where the final resting place was - nothing - all this stuff about frozen DNA dripping is not true there is no scientific conclusion in the files that backs this up - That is Amarals own THEORY

SY have stated that an abduction was possible in the time frame allowed it is not some impossible feat that was made up by the McCann's it could have happened

The reasons that people are still talking about the case is because it is such a mystery. THe PJ had their theories but no evidence that proved anything

so we wait to see if the SY interviews bring anything to the cae

 

[SapphireSteel]

Of course there is no direct evidence that proves abduction - otherwise the case would probably be solved by now !

Just as there is no direct evidence proving parental involvement - no evidence of a body , no evidence of where the body was stashed , no evidence of how the body was moved to a car , no evidence of where the final resting place was - nothing - all this stuff about frozen DNA dripping is not true there is no scientific conclusion in the files that backs this up - That is Amarals own THEORY

SY have stated that an abduction was possible in the time frame allowed it is not some impossible feat that was made up by the McCann's it could have happened

The reasons that people are still talking about the case is because it is such a mystery. THe PJ had their theories but no evidence that proved anything

so we wait to see if the SY interviews bring anything to the cae

I'm sorry, but if there was an abduction there would be some sort of evidence to that effect. As it is, there is evidence, but it all incriminates the parents.

The perp leaves something at every scene, and takes something away with him, even if those somethings are tiny filaments of fabric or hair or skin.

As Team McCann admits, there has been nothing of this nature found.

How is it then, that the McCann wishes to charge Amaral with libel? Libel must be lies, and as you've so rightly pointed out, no one actually knows what happened to Madeleine.

:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

IDI= no direct evidence, no indirect evidence either *whatever that is
MDI=both direct and indirect evidence found

How is it then, that supporters are so sure they are innocent?

:cow:

 

[gord]

I'm sorry, but if there was an abduction there would be some sort of evidence to that effect. As it is, there is evidence, but it all incriminates the parents.

The perp leaves something at every scene, and takes something away with him, even if those somethings are tiny filaments of fabric or hair or skin.

As Team McCann admits, there has been nothing of this nature found.

How is it then, that the McCann wishes to charge Amaral with libel? Libel must be lies, and as you've so rightly pointed out, no one actually knows what happened to Madeleine.

:cow:

There have been countless abductions where no evidence has been found - when Robert black snatched young girls off the street he left nothing not a thing he only got caught when he did it again

The holiday apartment was a mess - remember they rented it out twice even before the dogs came in !! On the night there was some many people in and out including PJ and dogs. Amaral even in a rare moment of contrition admits the first 24 hours was not his finest hour

Again where is the evidence of the disposal - where was the body hidden , where was it retrieved from ?? Are you really saying that if the body was hidden ( in a hell of hurry ) somewhere - I have seen lots of your ideas from roofs to bins to other apartments - and then retrieved weeks later ?? The smell alone would have been dreadful - but no forensics atall ???? not one clue . That scenario to me seems completely far fetched.

As far as the Libel trial is concerned we wait and see - I am not about to get into a detailed debate about the vagary's of portugese libel law which I am sure is a little bit more complicated than you suggest

 

[SapphireSteel]

There have been countless abductions where no evidence has been found - when Robert black snatched young girls off the street he left nothing not a thing he only got caught when he did it again

The holiday apartment was a mess - remember they rented it out twice even before the dogs came in !! On the night there was some many people in and out including PJ and dogs. Amaral even in a rare moment of contrition admits the first 24 hours was not his finest hour

Again where is the evidence of the disposal - where was the body hidden , where was it retrieved from ?? Are you really saying that if the body was hidden ( in a hell of hurry ) somewhere - I have seen lots of your ideas from roofs to bins to other apartments - and then retrieved weeks later ?? The smell alone would have been dreadful - but no forensics atall ???? not one clue . That scenario to me seems completely far fetched.

As far as the Libel trial is concerned we wait and see - I am not about to get into a detailed debate about the vagary's of portugese libel law which I am sure is a little bit more complicated than you suggest

What is your explanation for the dripping bodily fluid in the Renault?

 

[gord]

What is your explanation for the dripping bodily fluid in the Renault?

I take issue with the " dripping Bodily Fluid " that is such a leading question

They found trace elements of " cellular material " - ( a direct quote from the files ) - they were examining minute amounts of material with LCN Profiling .

They were adamant that they can not distinguish what type of cellular fluid - ie is it blood , semen , saliva , etc etc

again I go back to the files conclusion


" What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed "


I am not sure where you get this description of dripping bodily fluids from which indicates so much more than it is .

That is why scientists provide accurate analysis and not the lead detective who has a different agenda

 

[Clutchbag]

they have not lost a libel case - they go to court for the first time in libel supposedly this month vrs Amaral - I didn't ask if they had been to ciourt I answered the wrong claim that they had lost a libel case. which they haven't

But they are going to very shortly! IMO And, the injunction to ban Mr Amarals book WAS part of the libel writ, they lost that one, so in a sense, yes, they lost already and the basis of their writ was the book damaged them....the book after initially being banned was back on the shelves...so what leg do you think they have to stand on now, dont answer, rhetorical question

 

[Clutchbag]

The difference being, you don't transfer cadaver scent when you shake hands, because you're still alive.


:seeya:

Thats the crux, the cadaver dog would not be alerting if there was no cadaver scent, and we know for a fact that he did.....and that it was NOT blood he was alerting to...Keela the blood dog went over all e places he alerted to and in several did NOT confirm it was blood.....also it is a wild imagnative leap and statistically off the richter scale to suggest he was alerting to anything *normal* in the mccanns apartment and kate mccanns clothes, such as clipped toenails, bad breath, semen, urine, pork chops and all the silly ideas put forward, but spectacularly failed to do the same anywhere else...ergo....one conclusion.....it was cadaver scent from a dead body IMO and how unlucky and flukeish is that, that it was the last place a missing person was seen alive, do the math

UNLESS, an undertaker rented their flat after them!!!

 

[gord]

But they are going to very shortly! IMO And, the injunction to ban Mr Amarals book WAS part of the libel writ, they lost that one, so in a sense, yes, they lost already and the basis of their writ was the book damaged them....the book after initially being banned was back on the shelves...so what leg do you think they have to stand on now, dont answer, rhetorical question

However much you want to spin it they HAVE NOT yet lost a libel trial.

Amarals book was banned and the judge appeal upheld the appeal until the Libel trial sorted out the facts . This has been adjourned several times - once because Amaral lawyer was ill.

IF it goes ahead the Amaral will have plenty of opportunities to prove his theories regarding the fridge for one . and the McCann's guilt of disposing of the body .

so we shall see what occurs - but until that trial takes place in court as it should everything else is just froth

 

[Clutchbag]

However much you want to spin it they HAVE NOT yet lost a libel trial.

Amarals book was banned and the judge appeal upheld the appeal until the Libel trial sorted out the facts . This has been adjourned several times - once because Amaral lawyer was ill.

IF it goes ahead the Amaral will have plenty of opportunities to prove his theories regarding the fridge for one . and the McCann's guilt of disposing of the body .

so we shall see what occurs - but until that trial takes place in court as it should everything else is just froth

The only person spinning is you here. The appeal was granted, not because the judges thoifht oh well let him sell the book and lets wait and see what happens in court LOL, but because there was NO BASIS for banning the book, they decided the book was based on the files and was sound and logical, and since the book is the basis of the libel trial, its a foregone conclusion that the libel writ isnt worth the paper it is written on, any blind man can see that

and no I never SAID they lost THE libel trial, just the basis for it, read between the lines and hell will freeze over before the money grubbng vexatious litigant mccanns get a penny off mr amaral, or anyone else wait and see

 

[gord]

The only person spinning is you here. The appeal was granted, not because the judges thoifht oh well let him sell the book and lets wait and see what happens in court LOL, but because there was NO BASIS for banning the book, they decided the book was based on the files and was sound and logical, and since the book is the basis of the libel trial, its a foregone conclusion that the libel writ isnt worth the paper it is written on, any blind man can see that

and no I never SAID they lost THE libel trial, just the basis for it, read between the lines and hell will freeze over before the money grubbng vexatious litigant mccanns get a penny off mr amaral, or anyone else wait and see

I think I will wait until the court makes its decision rather than take your biased one sided view point

I have never heard of people loosing the Basis for a trial - is that a legal term ? or did you just make that up

 

[Clutchbag]

I think I will wait until the court makes its decision rather than take your biased one sided view point

I have never heard of people loosing the Basis for a trial - is that a legal term ? or did you just make that up

No legal term and no making anything up, stop being so facetious and indignated, i presented the FACTS to you and my opinion BASED on the facts, if you dont understand those facts ita not my problem, you can wait for the trial, but get ready to be bitterly disappointed when thr mccanns fail to get a million quid...or any win whatsoever thats all...to sue someone on behalf of their twins and the damage done to them??and their daughter who they dont know if alive or dead is frankly totally ludicrous and the court will find this, mark my words

 

[Karmady]

But they are going to very shortly! IMO And, the injunction to ban Mr Amarals book WAS part of the libel writ, they lost that one, so in a sense, yes, they lost already and the basis of their writ was the book damaged them....the book after initially being banned was back on the shelves...so what leg do you think they have to stand on now, dont answer, rhetorical question

Can you (or anyone) please point me to the McCann's loss on the injunction. I searched over on the mcannfiles site and found the initial TRO entered, but not a later decision allowing the publication to go forward. In my own defense, there's an AWFUL lot over there!

TIA

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think I will wait until the court makes its decision rather than take your biased one sided view point

I have never heard of people loosing the Basis for a trial - is that a legal term ? or did you just make that up

So, what's your theory on why Team McCann approached Amaral with an out-of-court settlement?

:waitasec:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I take issue with the " dripping Bodily Fluid " that is such a leading question

They found trace elements of " cellular material " - ( a direct quote from the files ) - they were examining minute amounts of material with LCN Profiling .

They were adamant that they can not distinguish what type of cellular fluid - ie is it blood , semen , saliva , etc etc

again I go back to the files conclusion


" What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed "


I am not sure where you get this description of dripping bodily fluids from which indicates so much more than it is .

That is why scientists provide accurate analysis and not the lead detective who has a different agenda

And what agenda, exactly, do you think he has?

I'm just going ahead to publish a book that I made up, just to vilify these innocent parents?

Really?

:scared:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I take issue with the " dripping Bodily Fluid " that is such a leading question

They found trace elements of " cellular material " - ( a direct quote from the files ) - they were examining minute amounts of material with LCN Profiling .

They were adamant that they can not distinguish what type of cellular fluid - ie is it blood , semen , saliva , etc etc

again I go back to the files conclusion


" What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed "


I am not sure where you get this description of dripping bodily fluids from which indicates so much more than it is .

That is why scientists provide accurate analysis and not the lead detective who has a different agenda

The DNA should not exist in the first place.

If it was accidental transfer, why didn't the dogs yowl all over 5a? All over the crèche where the poor little things spent all their time?

Nope, Eddie alerted at Cadaver, as trained. Cadaver from a deceased person whos DNA was consistent with Madeleines, cadaver which only existed on Kate's clothing, in the Renault, in 5A, and most importantly on cuddle cat.

They only have the DNA available to test because the dogs located it...or more correctly, they located the death scent and science found the DNA at the alert sites.

If DNA is so easily transferred, why didn't they find any foreign DNA from the perp?

You can focus on down to the vagaries of DNA (only 15/19...is that all? please) all you like but the simple fact is - it should not be there.

:stormingmad:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Can you (or anyone) please point me to the McCann's loss on the injunction. I searched over on the mcannfiles site and found the initial TRO entered, but not a later decision allowing the publication to go forward. In my own defense, there's an AWFUL lot over there!

TIA

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html

Here you go.

Important to note Team McCann also approached Amaral to settle out of court, which he refused.

I believe the McCann will do just about anything to avoid testifying. Any appearance in any courtroom will signify the beginning of the end for them. You can't just sit and lie in a court without it becoming fairly obvious that you are doing so.

:cow:

 

[Inana]

And what agenda, exactly, do you think he has?

I'm just going ahead to publish a book that I made up, just to vilify these innocent parents?

Really?

:scared:

Maybe the fact that he was booted off the case and harbors bitterness. ?