Searching around Kyron's home

[sttct]

I think it will be in a place she was very familiar with. Also, I don't think the neighbor that reported a white truck mysteriously hanging around was a coincidence.

Unfortunately, this is a pretty big area to hide someone in, the rural place they live as far as I can tell.

I live in So Cal and that poor girl that was murdered out here by Moreno Valley only happened to be found by someone who was going to mow their field. If that person, decided not to mow that field that day, her family would still be wondering what happened to her. There's just so many places. I pray that she loved Kyron and has him alive and hiden somewhere. I really really pray for that.

 

[Noway]

I don't know if it is true that Kaine had an affair (Terri allegedly told the landscaper that Kaine allegedly had hurt her by having an affair) but maybe Terri would leave Kyron near the home or an area that person was familiar with.


We're not held accountable for our insomnia-induced theories are we?

Trying to get inside Terri's mind is hard enough on 8 hours of sleep ... JMO

 

[2goldfish]

I think we're barking up the right tree (TH never thought in a million years people would suspect her) but she must be very different from me, I was born with guilt for everything. it would never cross my mind to not be suspected if I were her.

just a qualifier, I still dont feel convinced TH did anything. I just dont know.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This might be a pretty short thread but maybe some of the latenighters want to hash this out.

If the worst has happened and TH has disposed of Kyron, wouldn't there be more searching around the house? By looking at pictures of their home, it seems like there are many places to hide him out there. This has crossed my mind more than once. I think about Caylee Anthony and Abraham Shakespeare and how they were found just "right there".

Has anyone else been concerned about searching around Kyron's home?

LE and KH have both said that the property has been searched repeatedly. It takes a very, very long time for the traces of disturbed earth to disappear (literally thousands of years), so if he's in a grave on the property, it would show up.

Dogs can detect bodies underground.

 

[ami]

I think it depends on the motive.

If her motive was to hurt Kaine: I think she would put him on Kaine's own property. To sort of shove it in his face, even if he didn't know that's where Kyron was, and to show him she's smarter than he is, or to feel more "in control" than Kaine. If that makes sense. If she felt Kaine was controlling, then what would take back control for her more than taking Kyron from under his nose and then keeping him right there close to home, while everyone searched, while Kaine made pronouncements on the news. She wouldn't be thinking as hard about not being caught or blamed, because some small part of her would WANT Kaine to know it was her. So he (Kyron) wouldn't be concealed incredibly well.

If her motive was to erase Kyron from her life: I think she would put him in a random place chosen for its properties of concealment, probably far away from her. Her only concern would be expediency and keeping him hidden from searches as long as possible. She would want the blame to fall elsewhere if he was eventually found. I'd assume TH was less lazy than Casey, who couldn't be bothered to do much concealment. If she wanted Kyron to just "disappear" from her life for whatever reason, she'd want him *away* from her.

If her motive was money, a long-term scheme to gain something from his disappearance and perhaps in the future Kaine's death: she'd again put him away as far as possible, and she'd include some planted evidence to suggest that someone else did it - if for instance there was an insurance investigation, police investigation when Kyron was found, she would want to get away with it enough to reap benefits.

 

[Haeve]

Yes, and although reports are that Kyron was not seen with TH, he was also not seen leaving with anyone else.

Not sure about him being around the home. Oregon, even its cities, are close to wide-open heavily treed wilderness. I don't think she'd put him near the home. She knew the area, and apparently, SI fairly well.

CSI would teach her that water can wash away many clues. As far as the pings, I don't think she thought about that. She slept through that episode. I watch many shows like that, plus true cases, and I've heard about the pings before but it has really been brought home to me in this case. I won't forget it again, whereas before, I may or may not have remembered about pings from a turned-off phone.

BBM

Well, at least the ones in Western Oregon are. Carry on.

 

[Haeve]

Also, in this case we haven't learned allot on where the dogs were taken, right? I guess we just have to trust LE. If they feel it is warranted they have or will bring dogs to these areas.


I'm trying to remember back where I saw this, but didn't the family refuse to give up some items/clothes for the dogs to use for scents ???

BBM

No, just the non-LE for-profit private searcher Harry Oakes. The thread about him is in the private area. Tricia has asked us not to link to his page.

Info is here in this sticky thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108162"]Discussion about Harry Oaks Search for Kyron - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Aedrys]

I don't think he's close to his home. For one, I don't know about Kaine's schedule. What I mean is, if he works at home part of the day and is at work part of the day, that randomizes his schedule to a certain extent. She would have no way of knowing when he was going to be home and when he was going to be at work. I know this because my husband works mostly at home but sometimes has to go to the office - and there's no set day of the week he has to go, just one day usually. And sometimes he'll stay to noon, sometimes he'll stay longer. Sometimes he gets called in for a meeting, and sometimes he has to travel to other areas around the state of OK. Usually I know he's at home, but if he's not, there's no telling how long he's going to be away from home and when he's getting back. I'm thinking Kaine's schedule is such that she wouldn't want to risk being by the house unless she knew he wasn't going to be home for several hours - and if their marriage was on the rocks before this, I doubt he was telling her when he was leaving and the exact time he was getting home, and she probably wasn't telling him what she did all day besides taking care of the baby and maybe running grocery errands.

The second reason I don't believe he's close to home is that in the Casey Anthony case, she wanted her family to clean up her mess, so Caylee ended up down the street. Her family would have had a harder time trying to come to Casey's rescue if Caylee was further away from the home. I mean, it was a miracle that Kronk found Caylee before the Anthony family did. There were just about at the spot where she was, and for some reason didn't find her first. It still shocks me to this day that the A family didn't find her first. Plus, Casey was lazy and didn't think out her plan all that well. All indications point to her killing her child first without a thought to disposal in a such a way that she wouldn't get caught (can we say stinky car? borrowed shovel? dogs hitting in the backyard? Her car being backed into the garage at some point? I could go on and on). If Terri went through all of the trouble to set up a school alibi and an alibi for herself, I doubt she would put Kyron close to his home. More than likely, she drove a distance and dumped his body. I really think Rainbow Lake and any other bodies of water need to be searched for a submerged container.

So no, I don't think he's close to his home. Maybe close to her parent's home or one of her friend's homes, possibly. More than likely, a distance away submerged in a body of water.

 

[Skully]

I don't think he is close to home, only because family is the first place LE starts with when a crime is committed or a child goes missing. I do think that with them both having red hair, DeDe and Terri, there may have been some switching of trucks or cars. I agree with other posters that Terri thought this was the perfect way to throw them off, by him disappearing from the school. Cell pings could have been someone else driving around SI with her phone. So where is Kyron? It is hard to image that there are two woman so callous that they plotted his death, so did they pass him off to somebody? But who, I can only surmise the why. Does DeDe think she is protecting Kyron? I thought about that. It doesn't make sense to then give up custody of baby K to Kaine if he was a danger to the kids, so now that doesn't make sense for me now. So where is Kyron? Maybe she hurt him, lied to DeDe and said I am passing him off to somebody. So where? Not close to home. Some where she knows, and feels comfortable placing a body, a place she knows people won't walk it. If people walk it, they would have smelled the body by now. A place not currently connected to her.

 

[DeepThinker]

Does anyone know the name of the landscaper's (DeDe) company? Also, where do landscapers dump in that area? Do they go to the landfill or do they go to a landscape supply company that accepts grass, branches, etc? I work for a company that accepts recyclables (branches, grass, used sod, etc), and those piles get friggin' HUGE...easy to hide a body in

Just throwing my :twocents: out there. :cow:

OR, what if TH did the deed, then handed him off to DeDe to finish? Makes me sick to type that, ugh! :sick:

 

[eyes4crime]

Good question Kimster and one I've thought about for awhile. IF Terri is responsible for doing away with Kyron I don't think she would do a 'mom' kind of thing using water, a burial near home etc.

IF Terri did this, I think it would be an act of revenge and hatred aimed at Kaine and maybe Desiree. Seems likely she would put Kyron where it would shock him the most - on his own property where woods are thick and go on forever. How about near the gym where he works out or on Intel property. Does kaine have a favorite getaway he enjoys for relaxation? A place that will further ruin Kaine's life would be my bet. just my opinion and all that stuff.

 

[sayd]

Does anyone know the name of the landscaper's (DeDe) company? Also, where do landscapers dump in that area? Do they go to the landfill or do they go to a landscape supply company that accepts grass, branches, etc? I work for a company that accepts recyclables (branches, grass, used sod, etc), and those piles get friggin' HUGE...easy to hide a body in

Just throwing my :twocents: out there. :cow:

OR, what if TH did the deed, then handed him off to DeDe to finish? Makes me sick to type that, ugh! :sick:

I think that is a great possibility, and one I hadn't even thought of.

 

[Kimster]

LE and KH have both said that the property has been searched repeatedly. It takes a very, very long time for the traces of disturbed earth to disappear (literally thousands of years), so if he's in a grave on the property, it would show up.

Dogs can detect bodies underground.

I've read that and seen it discussed on TV, but the dogs didn't find Elizabeth Olten even though they had searched that area and she was buried in a pre-dug grave. (Admittedly, I'm not a pro when he comes to SAR).

 

[Barry]

One off the wall thought I had was, that initially Kyron was closer to the school/home, and that perhaps the reason DD got called away that day was so that she could be shown exactly where he was by TH, and then DD moved him way far away later, before she was on LE's radar screen. Not very likely, but it crossed my mind.

This is presuming TH/DD guilty, and MOO, of course.

 

[Oriah]

Also, in this case we haven't learned allot on where the dogs were taken, right? I guess we just have to trust LE. If they feel it is warranted they have or will bring dogs to these areas.


I'm trying to remember back where I saw this, but didn't the family refuse to give up some items/clothes for the dogs to use for scents ???[/QUOTE]

No, that is incorrect. They refused to give a scent article to one particular private dog handler because that handler was not working in cooperation with LE.

They gave scent articles to LE-approved SAR.

 

[Oriah]

I've read that and seen it discussed on TV, but the dogs didn't find Elizabeth Olten even though they had searched that area and she was buried in a pre-dug grave. (Admittedly, I'm not a pro when he comes to SAR).

Depends on what kind of dog is being used, what kind of scene you're looking at, and how close you are to a grave. It is somewhat of a misconception that you can take a dog out over, say, an acre or two and they will run right to a grave. They scent in 'cones'....so the variables on how they hit on a matching scent are great.

In other words, it is possible for even a well trained dog to miss remains if the scent trail does not bring them right to it, or if they do not come physically close enough to pick up the scent.

 

[lynmaree]

Just my :twocents: but Im starting to think it was all carefully thought out and none of it was a coincidence....

I know this may seem a little extreme and the stuff mystery novels are made of but...what if Terri had planned this for months and months? Even before the lanscaper and murder for hire plot? What if the landscaper miscontrued Terri's "passing" questions about murder and the hows and ifs and assumed she wanted her husband gone when in fact, she was really planning on how to "hide" Kyron's body? Is it possible or even remotely plausible that she placed the ad for the landscaper on purpose to learn about soil and drainage etc? Is her interest in gardening sudden? Oould she have used physicality to manipulate both men so far, the LS and MC?

How long ago did she befriend DeDe? Have they known each other long? Could she have selected and befriended her BECAUSE of the physical similarities between the two of them??? Was calling DeDe away from work all just a ruse to switch cars and throw of the trail and were any possible sightings of TH really just DD being used as a decoy?

I know this is nuts but follow me here and see what you think...

Place ad and spend time "befriending" landscaper
Ask questions to figure out how to hide a body (making LS think I mean hubby and I may be facetious)
Make friends with gardner chick who resembles me
Make her believe I am being abused in some way and so is Kyron
Tell tales to everyone about how miserable my life is blah blah blah
make DD and LS believe I and my kids are truly in danger
Play the loving step mom
Prepare "burial spot" in back of property even weeks in advance
Hire LS so Kaine isnt out there wondering around property
Make point of telling media its hard to keep up the property and leave some of it unkempt on purpose
Continue to play doting SM all the while weaving the tale of abuse to friends
Make them all believe you so they believe K is really in danger too
Be sure to bring baby with me on morning of science fair and be sure to be seen
Get K out of school and then go on with sick twisted disgusting plan
Call DD in duress saying Kaine is about to go crazy and steal K and baby and no matter what cost you need her help protecting them and please come
DD races to help and TH asks her to take her cell and just drive drive drive to throw off the trail while she gets K away when in truth shes really going home to bury his remains....

Like I said..the stuff novels and movies are made off BUT, everyone keeps asking why friends or anyone would help her....the only logical thing I can come back to in my head is that they really believe they are SAVING him somehow and they think she has him hidden away where he's safe...the ultimate parental sacrifice...facing jail and all this scrutiny to protect her stepson....

all the while they are nothing more than pawns in her sick twisted game

all just my opinion and ideas...nothing more...no basis in fact whatsoever

 

[Chewy]

Just my :twocents: but Im starting to think it was all carefully thought out and none of it was a coincidence....

I know this may seem a little extreme and the stuff mystery novels are made of but...what if Terri had planned this for months and months? Even before the lanscaper and murder for hire plot? What if the landscaper miscontrued Terri's "passing" questions about murder and the hows and ifs and assumed she wanted her husband gone when in fact, she was really planning on how to "hide" Kyron's body? Is it possible or even remotely plausible that she placed the ad for the landscaper on purpose to learn about soil and drainage etc? Is her interest in gardening sudden? Oould she have used physicality to manipulate both men so far, the LS and MC?

How long ago did she befriend DeDe? Have they known each other long? Could she have selected and befriended her BECAUSE of the physical similarities between the two of them??? Was calling DeDe away from work all just a ruse to switch cars and throw of the trail and were any possible sightings of TH really just DD being used as a decoy?

I know this is nuts but follow me here and see what you think...

Place ad and spend time "befriending" landscaper
Ask questions to figure out how to hide a body (making LS think I mean hubby and I may be facetious)
Make friends with gardner chick who resembles me
Make her believe I am being abused in some way and so is Kyron
Tell tales to everyone about how miserable my life is blah blah blah
make DD and LS believe I and my kids are truly in danger
Play the loving step mom
Prepare "burial spot" in back of property even weeks in advance
Hire LS so Kaine isnt out there wondering around property
Make point of telling media its hard to keep up the property and leave some of it unkempt on purpose
Continue to play doting SM all the while weaving the tale of abuse to friends
Make them all believe you so they believe K is really in danger too
Be sure to bring baby with me on morning of science fair and be sure to be seen
Get K out of school and then go on with sick twisted disgusting plan
Call DD in duress saying Kaine is about to go crazy and steal K and baby and no matter what cost you need her help protecting them and please come
DD races to help and TH asks her to take her cell and just drive drive drive to throw off the trail while she gets K away when in truth shes really going home to bury his remains....

Like I said..the stuff novels and movies are made off BUT, everyone keeps asking why friends or anyone would help her....the only logical thing I can come back to in my head is that they really believe they are SAVING him somehow and they think she has him hidden away where he's safe...the ultimate parental sacrifice...facing jail and all this scrutiny to protect her stepson....

all the while they are nothing more than pawns in her sick twisted game

all just my opinion and ideas...nothing more...no basis in fact whatsoever

There's two sticking points in this for me.

One that has always bothered me is how Terri could know for certain that no one had seen Kyron come back to her car that day. I just can't imagine her going to a school where she is very well known and also she stands out and even getting Kyron to come back out to the truck the possibility of being seen is very very high. She'd only need one person to see it.

If you wanted to do this why not do a John Walsh and go to a Target and try the same thing or a play date or something where fewer people knew her and would be able to speak about it.


The second sticking point is by now the police are involved and if DeDe did help her she'd give it up by now I am sure if Kyron was still alive. So that tells me that if she DID do it and she had someone's help it does not bode well.

Dede has known her for about 7 years now.

Last part, what about an attempt at suing the school for negligence. So she does this flat out for the money.

Perhaps the two women wanted to go off and raise the baby together as a couple?

Also I definitely think that Dede drove around with her cell phone. It would be easy enough to check to see if Dede's pings were identical to TH's.

 

[Curious Me]

I don't think whatever happened to Kyron was that close to home. Kaine could come in and out with his work schedule. They weren't talking that much. She wouldn't know when he'd pop back home. I think TH would be the type that didn't want to be close to her messes to be reminded, so I doubt she'd want Kyron buried on her property.

Slim chance she got Kyron out of school magically without being seen and took him home to kill. She has proof of shopping til 10:10. Was Kyron dead in her truck? Was he already dead? Then we have the unexplained or questionable driving on rural roads to soothe the baby, and then the gym. There's only so much time to do this quickly. She must've had help. I'm not even sure she was the one that left the school with him. Close to the school, maybe.

Seems like Kyron must've been gone or bound on the truck floor or what? This case is driving me crazy!

 

[Chewy]

oooops