Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

[Hope4More]

It's always struck me that Travis seemed to think something must be "wrong with" a woman such as Mimi who was unmarried in her late 20's.
IMO most women he dated after Deanna and Linda must have thought the same thing about him. Here's a guy with a job, good looks, appears successful and religiously grounded...yet he's in his late 20's and unmarried. Red flags IMO

IMO, his unmarried status was likely perceived as unusual, but not quite as grievous as a woman his age being unmarried--different standards for women and men, not unique to Mormons.

I remember Lisa being asked on the stand about this, and IIRC she said it was atypical (though she didn't find anything "odd" about his status).

You probably picked up in the texts too that Travis did seem concerned about what was being said about him by women in his ward, but there were multiple reasons why that might be, including being stalked by a with a peculiar habit of sending "accidental" texts, and with alarming frequency.

 

[TexMex]

AGE AT MARRIAGE. Latter-day Saints also tend to marry early. Forty-five percent of LDS women and 23 percent of LDS men have married by age nineteen. By age twenty-one 74 percent of LDS women and 49 percent of LDS men have married. This is considerably higher than for any other religious group (Table 1).


http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Social_Characteristics


Thirty was definitely red flag worthy....
But exactly why Jodi targeted Mormons...marriage.

 

[Hope4More]

AGE AT MARRIAGE. Latter-day Saints also tend to marry early. Forty-five percent of LDS women and 23 percent of LDS men have married by age nineteen. By age twenty-one 74 percent of LDS women and 49 percent of LDS men have married. This is considerably higher than for any other religious group (Table 1).



Thirty was definitely red flag worthy....But exactly why Jodi targeted Mormons...marriage.

I'm not sure. Are we agreeing or disagreeing ? Maybe it depends on the definition of red flags. Maybe yellow is more accurate?

Sure Travis was older, but he was the whole package otherwise, and by all accounts was extremely well respected, liked, and loved. He wasn't an odd, stand-offish bachelor, he was on all fronts in the thick of things and engaging.

Mimi is IMO the most useful barometer of his LDS social circle. She wasn't in any hurry to get married (good for her) and had very high standards, and she did, at least for a time, consider Travis.

 

[b_lab7410]

I agree too that if they had remained apart, he would have been able to move on. IMO he would not have gone to CA to visit her. But when she came to him that June day, naked and bearing KY-as he himself said she was his kryptonite.

That, I always felt was suspect. I still feel he got frightened of her breaking and entering in like that, I think the term is psychotic mania. That sounds more like duress to me. Like when is she leaving my house? What do I have to do? I just think the sex in itself was her weakness, as much as it was his. For at least this much, I don't call her names that are adjectives for the overactive female sexual libido - I mean why? It's uncontrollable wiring. Are women supposed to be void of neurological dysfunction? Somebody might want to tell the 'Almighty' or mother nature that one... How could it help a mentally unwell woman in court if they pull up her sexual history? Pretty certain they'd prefer to be 'normal.'

IMO, the using of sex later to add to TA's confusion/impairment and the prostitution/scams were the offending conscious tactics on her part. She wants somebody's bank account and children - sure women are designed with maternal urges - even JA, IMO - but for what purpose? To control them? And how she attained those goals were conscious decisions. The more boundaries she'd break, the more comfortable she felt about tire-slashing/stalking. She enjoyed hurting Travis more and more with each slight. Silent predator. I think it did dawn on him enough. I mean there has to be some* point a man rejects sex. It takes them a while though. She exhausted his appetite for her IMO.

 

[b_lab7410]

Very well stated b_lab. I never thought of it that way - she had as much to lose as Travis did if the killer went to the Bishop to spill the beans, so to speak. She too would lose her good standing. Unless of course she didn't care about her standing as she would be in California and not in his ward .

I'm not sure she wanted to let the Mormon community go.. She only changed her mind and packed up after realizing Flores was onto her, then again, she seemed to have no problem getting other people's phone numbers. But Ryan Burns is a 100,000 'ring earner' now. She has laser sights... and he IS a pretty nice guy.

 

[TexMex]

That, I always felt was suspect. I still feel he got frightened of her breaking and entering in like that, I think the term is psychotic mania. That sounds more like duress to me. Like when is she leaving my house? What do I have to do? I just think the sex in itself was her weakness, as much as it was his. For at least this much, I don't call her names that are adjectives for the overactive female sexual libido - I mean why? It's uncontrollable wiring. Are women supposed to be void of neurological dysfunction? Somebody might want to tell the 'Almighty' or mother nature that one... How could it help a mentally unwell woman in court if they pull up her sexual history? Pretty certain they'd prefer to be 'normal.'

IMO, the using of sex later to add to TA's confusion/impairment and the prostitution/scams were the offending conscious tactics on her part. She wants somebody's bank account and children - sure women are designed with maternal urges - even JA, IMO - but for what purpose? To control them? And how she attained those goals were conscious decisions. The more boundaries she'd break, the more comfortable she felt about tire-slashing/stalking. She enjoyed hurting Travis more and more with each slight. Silent predator. I think it did dawn on him enough. I mean there has to be some* point a man rejects sex. It takes them a while though. She exhausted his appetite for her IMO.

Prostitution/ scams?

She seemed obsessed with Travis even though he was in bad shape financially


Hyper sexuality is often associated with borderline personality disorder per Dr. Demarte so I agree it was a weakness (trying to fill the emptiness) of hers as well. Not as a woman but as a person with this mental disorder.

I think Travis was thrilled when she left Mesa. I have no doubt he was (like my son) totally exhausted. Borderlines do that to you.
Moo is he had no intent to travel to California to see her despite his "plans" he told her about during phone sex. But when she drove to Mesa and offered sex he took her up on that offer then figured she'd just continue on with her road trip

 

[Hope4More]

Prostitution/ scams?

She seemed obsessed with Travis even though he was in bad shape financially


Hyper sexuality is often associated with borderline personality disorder per Dr. Demarte so I agree it was a weakness (trying to fill the emptiness) of hers as well. Not as a woman but as a person with this mental disorder.

I think Travis was thrilled when she left Mesa. I have no doubt he was (like my son) totally exhausted. Borderlines do that to you.
Moo is he had no intent to travel to California to see her despite his "plans" he told her about during phone sex. But when she drove to Mesa and offered sex he took her up on that offer then figured she'd just continue on with her road trip

Travis wasn't having financial problems when she first targeted him, and didn't seem to struggle financially until late fall 2007. Chris H. has directly linked T's financial difficulties to the impact the had on Travis. Not just that T began spending beyond his means, and not just that she distracted him from focusing on PPL, but that dealing with her took an enormous toll on him mentally and emotionally.

The was well aware that his financial situation had deteriorated. At first she berated herself (ever so briefly), writing in her journal in late 2007 (loosely paraphrasing)--"damn. If I had chosen rationally I would be safely married by now, but nooooo, I had to go choose with my sentimental heart instead. My bad."

By Jan 2008 she was full -on blaming Travis for forcing her to endure his (temporary) financial setbacks, in between pressuring him to take her to Disney World and telling him about all the places she wanted to go along the way to OKC in March. In May she would tell him that HIS financial difficulties were "an endless struggle" for HER.

Yep. Whatever term slapped onto why she didn't let him go, by Jan 2008 it wasn't about holding onto him for financial security, though she did keep taking money from him even when he was most desperate himself.

There's precious little she's ever said or written that can be believed, but I do believe on May 26th she was telling Travis the truth -as much as she's capable of knowing it - when she told him: "I don't know what this is. It's not love and it's not friendship. I've tried to understand it and can't, I've tried to tell myself I feel nothing for you because I don't want to have those feelings, but it hasn't worked."

 

[Caylee Advocate]

This may have already been posted but I haven't had time to backtrack the thread so sorry if it was. Damn, loose lips really do sink ships!! Backstabbing bunch aren't they? Laterzzz. :loveyou:



http://inconvenienttruthstv.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_23.html

 

[Hope4More]

. (.....)

Moo is he had no intent to travel to California to see her despite his "plans" he told her about during phone sex. But when she drove to Mesa and offered sex he took her up on that offer then figured she'd just continue on with her road trip

You know that I'll never (ever ever ever ) agree with you that Travis haplessly succumbed to her wicked wiles and ways on June 4th, so will skip right on by that part.


Can't remember in which of the many post TCR interviews JM said this, but he was asked--- do you think the would inevitably have murdered some one else, had she not met Travis? Was she "born to kill" (apologies to the Boss)?

JM replied...no, he didn't see it that way. That in essence her capacity to kill was due to her BPD, specifically, being incapable of handling rejection.

Now, I truly have the utmost respect for JM, both as a person and as the most brilliant trial attorney I've ever had the privilege of watching at work.

On the pysch stuff? Not quite as much. IMO he certainly nailed the bottom line of her motive, and I think he sees her very clearly indeed (tho IMO she was very likely to have killed someone else if not TA for the very reason he believes she killed Travis).

'm not entirely convinced he sees Travis quite as clearly, and though it might make me a sexist pig for saying it, I think his male persuasion skewed and still skews his views on what happened on June 4, and the whys of TA's vulnerability to the .

My helmet is on. Bombs away with the rocks...

 

[Hope4More]

This may have already been posted but I haven't had time to backtrack the thread so sorry if it was. Damn, loose lips really do sink ships!! Backstabbing bunch aren't they? Laterzzz. :loveyou:



http://inconvenienttruthstv.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_23.html

Pathological. The whole twisted merry little band of truest believers. No doubt hearing about their back stabbing petty intrigues is what keeps the going.

The MP fellow mentioned, BTW, is the one who donated $25,O00 (on paper) to set up the JAII appellate matching fund scam.

And I'm sure the appreciates how friend-like it is of SW to spread on SM that she's abusing her phone privileges to speak to an attorney who is neck deep in all that slimy muck, LOL.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

OH, NO SEX ON JUNE 4TH!!!!! LMAO.

Cya' all, off to my camping retreat for the weekend. AHHH.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Pathological. All of these twisted merry little band of truest believers. No doubt hearing about their back stabbing petty intrigues is what keeps the going.

The MP fellow mentioned, BTW, is the one who donated $25,O00 (on paper) to set up the JAII appellate matching fund scam.

Yeah right, his mommy said he is a bum!! Oh, Donavans tell all with Beth is today, done at 16:30 airs.. ??? I'm out the door like now.

 

[Hope4More]

Yeah right, his mommy said he is a bum!! Oh, Donavans tell all with Beth is today, done at 16:30 airs.. ??? I'm out the door like now.

Have fun!!

 

[TexMex]

The proof is in the pics. IMO he wasn't forced to take close ups of her ummm..privates.

I think he was ok when she was 1,000 miles away. He could call if he wanted attention (phone sex) and otherwise move on
But when she shows up and it's in his face, it's back to oh well, one more time won't hurt and they do what comes natural to them.
Like he says in gchat...she knows. She knows his weakness. She decided to kill him and only had to exploit that weakness to get close enough to carry out the plan.

I think she could have killed again. If she became similarly obsessed, then rejected, she's capable of it.

No rocks for you!
I'm saving the rocks to pour bourbon over in about an hour

 

[b_lab7410]

This may have already been posted but I haven't had time to backtrack the thread so sorry if it was. Damn, loose lips really do sink ships!! Backstabbing bunch aren't they? Laterzzz. :loveyou:



http://inconvenienttruthstv.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_23.html

Oh wow, today's the interview with Donavan. Part of me says "who cares," the other part wants specific details... *sigh

 

[salberg7]

For those who don't think they had sex on June 4, how do you think those pictures got on his camera?

 

[LinasK]

This may have already been posted but I haven't had time to backtrack the thread so sorry if it was. Damn, loose lips really do sink ships!! Backstabbing bunch aren't they? Laterzzz. :loveyou:



http://inconvenienttruthstv.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_23.html

Sandra Webber is just as scary as Donovan and other Jodi supporters. I've read her crap elsewhere. Not sure what she has to gain by supporting Jodi...
One of the sleaziest things they are doing is contacting relatives of each other to bring them down. Is it really necessary to contact the mother or sister-in-law of a grown man who has passed the bar??? What is this, Kindergarten?? I am happy they are destroying each other.:coffeews::bigfight::cheer:opcorn:

 

[LinasK]

For those who don't think they had sex on June 4, how do you think those pictures got on his camera?

Oh she clearly took the ones of naked Travis on the bed staged with the KY, but the ones of herself were selfies taken with a timer. No proof of sex in those photos.

 

[b_lab7410]

Prostitution/ scams?

She seemed obsessed with Travis even though he was in bad shape financially


Hyper sexuality is often associated with borderline personality disorder per Dr. Demarte so I agree it was a weakness (trying to fill the emptiness) of hers as well. Not as a woman but as a person with this mental disorder.

I think Travis was thrilled when she left Mesa. I have no doubt he was (like my son) totally exhausted. Borderlines do that to you.
Moo is he had no intent to travel to California to see her despite his "plans" he told her about during phone sex. But when she drove to Mesa and offered sex he took her up on that offer then figured she'd just continue on with her road trip

A roommate of her's had stated she saw men in and out while Jodi was there. Not to mention some other rumors - I don't know if this board discussed that, but her twitter feed covered it alright. Not in any petty fashion, mind you, I can't recall exactly but I believe some of her co-workers said things. Not to mention all those condoms they found in her car. Why not get a single? And we figured she was obtaining her cash this way because she certainly wasn't working. Not only did she cause Travis financial damage, she couldn't afford her lifestyle either. IMO, she brought them both down into the red.

What I was saying about her sex drive was really just something I noticed about her. Seems to me, no matter the context, men with 'hypersexuality,' is not even a thing, it goes under the radar as 'normal' in social context. I think that's* weird. Why some people (yes, even women) label someone as opposed to recognize it as a symptom for either gender is beyond me. Also, why don't males get those same labels?? It's overboard for them too. But note, more women have these disorders than men. There are more female borderlines. Generally, they say when we're talking about deviance, men are psychotic, and women are more prone to disorders.

 

[Hope4More]

Oh wow, today's the interview with Donavan. Part of me says "who cares," the other part wants specific details... *sigh

I'll save you some time. There were no details, at least for the first 20-25 minutes, at which point I turned it off after D had just made it clear she still "cares" for the & doesn't think the premedidated the murder.

So, what was her big announcement? That was "newsworthy" enough (in whatever slim meaning of that word)?

Not that she doesn't support the anymore, though she seems to be seeking some kind of neutral territory between active "haters" and "supporters," the numbers of each she vastly overestimates. No, her big news is that it hurts her stomach to watch supporters act and do hateful things, because none of that is helpful to the , so she just can't be a part of it anymore.

And in an a la Nurmi twist, while being interviewed by BK, after saying on SM she wanted to be interviewed, D wants her wish to be known that everyone just stop talking about the .