Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

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Yes. Like this. ...More or less.

Having her coming and going out of the house several times after TA throws her out is much more consistent with the prior emails and messages that he wanted to have nothing more to do with her than allowing her to stick around all day.

Every time he threw her out would have heightened her rage.

We only have ' testimony that she was there all day. If he kept throwing her out and she kept returning=no DV.


More or less, maybe. I don't think he ever threw her out, though, just made clear to her by starting to clean and by trying to take care of business that he was ready for her to go, which, if she told him she was just dropping in on her way to Utah, he probably believed shouldn't have been a problem for her.

Hanging out with her all day? No way that happened, for all kinds of reasons.

----
The replacement tires were low end, because that's all he could afford. Remember her texting him on the day she blew up his BMW that she was at the tire place and saw some really spiffy expensive tires that would look good on his BMW? IMO, salt in what she thought was the wound he felt having to put budget tires on the BMW that he originally viewed as a symbol of his financial success.
 
More or less, maybe. I don't think he ever threw her out, though, just made clear to her by starting to clean and by trying to take care of business that he was ready for her to go, which, if she told him she was just dropping in on her way to Utah, he probably believed shouldn't have been a problem for her.

Hanging out with her all day? No way that happened, for all kinds of reasons.

----
The replacement tires were low end, because that's all he could afford. Remember her texting him on the day she blew up his BMW that she was at the tire place and saw some really spiffy expensive tires that would look good on his BMW? IMO, salt in what she thought was the wound he felt having to put budget tires on the BMW that he originally viewed as a symbol of his financial success.

Agree. I think he wanted her gone three minutes after sex but she hung around. He was just being the gentleman and figured she'd be gone soon.
 
Agree. I think he wanted her gone three minutes after sex but she hung around. He was just being the gentleman and figured she'd be gone soon.


Don't look now, Mister, but I think we just agreed about at least one thing that may have happened that day. :;
 
Don't look now, Mister, but I think we just agreed about at least one thing that may have happened that day. :;

I think he felt too guilty about the sex to let her stay a moment longer, and he rushed to do his private laundry to eliminate every speck of her. Her rage was escalating at everything he said or did.

He evidently thought it was more important to scrub himself than to scrub the floor, but he was all about ablution.
 
Reading between the completely unsubtle lines of her manifesto, I think the said quite clearly why she killed him:

1. To make him pay for every disparaging word he ever said to her, including, but not only what he told her on May 26.

2. To have been the one who did the ultimate rejection of him, to not let him "win" by allowing his rejection of her to stand.

3. Related more generally to his rejection of her than to Mimi per se, that Travis chose to ask Mimi to go to Cancun, a trip the delusional and twisted felt entitled to go on because she believed Travis wouldn't have earned it without her assistance, especially hurtful because Travis chose to ask Mimi, an unobtainable "dream" over her real willing and available self, who should have been his travelling partner because that was Their Thing.

---------

A minor BTW. In her section titled "Photographs" the doesn't discuss the sex or shower photos at all, but does say that Travis never posted any photos of her on his online accounts, but that was just like him, because he never posted any photos of any of the GF's he was serious about, "that I'm aware of."

In another words, she saw the photo of Maria he posted on FB in late May with the caption about her being luscious, and that he bet "she wants me, " and no doubt his open flirt on FB with his newest interest (lordy, forgot her name) , posted the day the staged the gun robbery, raving about how awesome (his newest interest) was. Fuel on the fire.
 
Don't look now, Mister, but I think we just agreed about at least one thing that may have happened that day. :;

Ha! I'm in Abilene at a Cavenders buying my son and I new boots to celebrate this occasion. Then some quail and a 22oz cowboy ribeye medium rare because, Miss Hope, sometimes we do think alike.
 
Ha! I'm in Abilene at a Cavenders buying my son and I new boots to celebrate this occasion. Then some quail and a 22oz cowboy ribeye medium rare because, Miss Hope, sometimes we do think alike.


Especially if you agree that those delectable ribeyes should err on the side of rare, not medium. :)

Enjoy your meal and your DS's company.
 
More or less, maybe. I don't think he ever threw her out, though, just made clear to her by starting to clean and by trying to take care of business that he was ready for her to go, which, if she told him she was just dropping in on her way to Utah, he probably believed shouldn't have been a problem for her.

Hanging out with her all day? No way that happened, for all kinds of reasons.

----
The replacement tires were low end, because that's all he could afford. Remember her texting him on the day she blew up his BMW that she was at the tire place and saw some really spiffy expensive tires that would look good on his BMW? IMO, salt in what she thought was the wound he felt having to put budget tires on the BMW that he originally viewed as a symbol of his financial success.

He might have not been at all chivalrous that day, given the tone of his communications with her. And if she kept showing up that day, he likely was very afraid.

Regarding the suitcase. The only other instance where a suitcase figured--except maybe when she was arrested--was her BS about TA arrying her suitcase into the house. Could there be some info kept out of trial about that? Also, her schtick about TA being all gentlemanly on the day of the murder flies in the face of her disparaging statements in the manifesto.

I'm betting if she said he was sweet on the day of the murder, he wasn't at all. Remember, he wouldn't even let her in the house in April, so she slept in the truck.
 
Different kind of steak in the making. Every brown dot is a bison. :)
 

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Looked at this again, going through other photos just now.

How obvious. What color rental car would YOU ask for, if your goal was to blend in/go unnoticed?
 

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Driving into his neighborhood at 3 or 4 AM...is Travis still awake? Are any roommates there and awake?

Just check the windows for lights on, while driving slowly around the block. What's visible from the street: TA's bedroom window (rear right); his bathroom windows (front right, over garage); and living room & downstairs area windows (left , side windows & front windows to the left of front door).

The only relevant rooms she couldn't see from the road were the back left bedroom (for an awake roommate) and TA's study. She could see the windows of both if she crept through the side gate into his backyard.
 

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A BIG :tyou: for the review of her manifesto, etc.!!!!!

Ribeyes.... hmmmm.... I have some in the freezer! maybe for dinner tonight!
 
I did an experiment. (Do you approve, Sis Geevee? :) )

First I watched this : [video=youtube;M9_jz9-q13g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9_jz9-q13g[/video]


I had a picture taken on Aug 2, 2016 12:21pm with my Samsung camera that was saved in my computer. I was able to change the 'date taken' with ease after watching the video above. I changed the date from Aug 2, 2016 to Aug 20, 2016.

Then I pulled out my old Sony camera. Put its memory card to a card reader and connected it to my computer. Followed the direction on youtube video (posted below. I can only post one video per post). Transferred the said picture into the Sony memory card. I did this on Aug 20 11:01am.

Clicked on properties of that picture now on my Sony memory card.
File: Date created Aug 20, 2016 11:02 am, Date modified Aug 20, 2016 11:01am
Origin: Date taken Aug 20, 2016 12:21pm

Changing the date taken was simple, easy and quick on my Windows 10 computer. I don't know if it could have been done as easily back in 2008. Dworkin did testify changing dates of photos is possible during cross examination. IIRC Martinez was asking him about ' picture with a black dog.

Did she change the dates on the sex photos(from late March?) then transferred them to T's camera? She showed them to Travis in order to earn his trust?...Use them against me if I go out of line.
 
[video=youtube;dHm0Ko8_TfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHm0Ko8_TfQ[/video]
 
I did an experiment. (Do you approve, Sis Geevee? :) )

First I watched this : [video=youtube;M9_jz9-q13g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9_jz9-q13g[/video]


I had a picture taken on Aug 2, 2016 12:21pm with my Samsung camera that was saved in my computer. I was able to change the 'date taken' with ease after watching the video above. I changed the date from Aug 2, 2016 to Aug 20, 2016.

Then I pulled out my old Sony camera. Put its memory card to a card reader and connected it to my computer. Followed the direction on youtube video (posted below. I can only post one video per post). Transferred the said picture into the Sony memory card. I did this on Aug 20 11:01am.

Clicked on properties of that picture now on my Sony memory card.
File: Date created Aug 20, 2016 11:02 am, Date modified Aug 20, 2016 11:01am
Origin: Date taken Aug 20, 2016 12:21pm

Changing the date taken was simple, easy and quick on my Windows 10 computer. I don't know if it could have been done as easily back in 2008. Dworkin did testify changing dates of photos is possible during cross examination. IIRC Martinez was asking him about ' picture with a black dog.

Did she change the dates on the sex photos(from late March?) then transferred them to T's camera? She showed them to Travis in order to earn his trust?...Use them against me if I go out of line.


JMO, but personally I think TA would have been more freaked than reassured or trusting if the did that.

Again, JMO, what I got from the May 26 battle is that TA's primary demand of the was that she come clean and tell the truth...including about the tires. I think her bald face denials of what he knew to be true were crazy-making to him past his point of tolerance.

Add to that how strongly he felt the need to have his own come clean with Lisa, and how utterly relieved and free he felt afterwards, especially after telling her the truth about the .

Travis believed in redemption, believed he was obligated to forgive, believed in believing the best about people. Those beliefs, though, were just exploitable vulnerabilities to a sociopath, as, what IMO was likely his relief in hearing she was moving on to Ryan.

I think her confessing and telling of Ryan on June 2 was crucial to her plan for the 4th, which is why she was so relentlessly determined that he speak to her that night/early AM, before she left.

Jmo. :)
 
Looked at this again, going through other photos just now.

How obvious. What color rental car would YOU ask for, if your goal was to blend in/go unnoticed?

Wow.... I also thought she might have rented the same model as the roommates' or Zach's girlfriends.
 
I did an experiment. (Do you approve, Sis Geevee? :) )

First I watched this : [video=youtube;M9_jz9-q13g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9_jz9-q13g[/video]


I had a picture taken on Aug 2, 2016 12:21pm with my Samsung camera that was saved in my computer. I was able to change the 'date taken' with ease after watching the video above. I changed the date from Aug 2, 2016 to Aug 20, 2016.

Then I pulled out my old Sony camera. Put its memory card to a card reader and connected it to my computer. Followed the direction on youtube video (posted below. I can only post one video per post). Transferred the said picture into the Sony memory card. I did this on Aug 20 11:01am.

Clicked on properties of that picture now on my Sony memory card.
File: Date created Aug 20, 2016 11:02 am, Date modified Aug 20, 2016 11:01am
Origin: Date taken Aug 20, 2016 12:21pm

Changing the date taken was simple, easy and quick on my Windows 10 computer. I don't know if it could have been done as easily back in 2008. Dworkin did testify changing dates of photos is possible during cross examination. IIRC Martinez was asking him about ' picture with a black dog.

Did she change the dates on the sex photos(from late March?) then transferred them to T's camera? She showed them to Travis in order to earn his trust?...Use them against me if I go out of line.

Bravo sister Pocket! The guy in the video said he did this on Windows 7 and I understand it's been possible on at least XP if not OS' before that so I think it's perfectly possible she did that. And she had access to a 'free' Sony memory card (Zach's camera that ended up in the BMW) to be able to transfer March pics onto.

While reading through Hope's sequence of events above I was going to remark that I still had grave doubts about the nudes in part because of the short amount of time between her last shot (of her backside) at 1:44:00 and Travis lying on the bed apparently mostly asleep at 1:44:50 - that's just not likely that he could have taken that shot of her and then jumped into bed and sprawled out/relaxed/asleep and she's on the chair next to his bed (or on the other side of it) taking that pic of him (and then the pic of him throwing the KY bottle at her), time is way too short. But if she'd just changed the date/time stamps on the pics before transferring them to the Sony card she swiped....it makes much more sense of them.

The laptop Spybot file activating at 1:44:00 is another conflicting curiosity but you show the proof that changing all EXIF picture data is not only possible but easily accomplished, as well as getting the pics from one device onto the memory card, thanks so much. :)
 
Bravo sister Pocket! The guy in the video said he did this on Windows 7 and I understand it's been possible on at least XP if not OS' before that so I think it's perfectly possible she did that. And she had access to a 'free' Sony memory card (Zach's camera that ended up in the BMW) to be able to transfer March pics onto.

While reading through Hope's sequence of events above I was going to remark that I still had grave doubts about the nudes in part because of the short amount of time between her last shot (of her backside) at 1:44:00 and Travis lying on the bed apparently mostly asleep at 1:44:50 - that's just not likely that he could have taken that shot of her and then jumped into bed and sprawled out/relaxed/asleep and she's on the chair next to his bed (or on the other side of it) taking that pic of him (and then the pic of him throwing the KY bottle at her), time is way too short. But if she'd just changed the date/time stamps on the pics before transferring them to the Sony card she swiped....it makes much more sense of them.

The laptop Spybot file activating at 1:44:00 is another conflicting curiosity but you show the proof that changing all EXIF picture data is not only possible but easily accomplished, as well as getting the pics from one device onto the memory card, thanks so much. :)


I know all this has been discussed, repeatedly, but I guess what I'm stuck on is why the would do all that...towards what end?

A minor point---she didn't know before she left Mesa that TA was going to buy a new camera, much less what kind it would be (and she may or may not have been responsible for Zach's camera materializing in the BMW).

TA texted the about buying the Sony after she'd left Mesa, but he had already chosen what to buy, based on Zach's recommendation, not hers.

More major points: why, again? If she changed the dates on the sex photos but not on the shower photos, then tried to destroy the camera, her only possible purpose for doing so involved showing them at some point to a still alive Travis. Why?

And then they were deleted, whether taken before or that day.

The other point-- what do you think was the timeline for that day (what encounters, where was she, when might he have known she was there) before 5:20 pm, if they weren't occupied with sex at the time the photos indicate?

I'm totally open in theory to the possibility they didn't have sex that day, but I just can't imagine any scenario that makes sense to me why she'd fake the day and time of sex photos, unless it was to threaten Travis, which wouldn't have served her purpose that day- - she needed him to trust her, or at least for him to let his guard down.

We'll never know what Travis felt or thought on June 4 before he was murdered, including what he felt or thought about the surprising him in his own house.

I continue to think the was aware when she was planning the murder, though, that those first few moments after showing up were the most dangerous for her, given the depth of TA's anger and contempt for her he'd demonstrated on May 26, and the fact that unlike what she'd always counted on before, he never called or texted to apologize to her.

She had to find an opening just wide enough he didn't immediately run for the phone to call the police or a friend, and she needed to know she'd found that opening before she arrived.

As for Travis. I haven't changed my mind that he was really done with her, and on June 2, had no reason to think he'd ever have to deal with her again, certainly not in person. If she threw herself at his feet to confess and apologize on the phone, it wouldn't have cost him, as far as he could know (given who he was), to stay on the phone, to listen, and tell her OK, whatever.

Just a little opening, but enough. By not outright refusing to answer her calls and texts that night, the no doubt felt confident enough about being able to manipulate him when she arrived.
 
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