Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[Hope4More]

Photo uploaded directly from cell phone versus the photo taken from laptop screen.

(DS reaching for ginormous cinnamon bun in Kansas)

(First photo is from computer screen)

 

[Hope4More]

Bit by bit. ullhair: ullhair: ullhair:

My sisters are simply incorrigible...

 

[geevee]

TxJan1971's transcrips of the interrogation
31:00
JA: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, after noon. I just, you know…He had been cleaning his house umm…so I couldn’t… I wasn’t sitting on the couch. Usually I would just chill on the couch downstairs, you know, if no one was home. Umm…but he had like chairs and all that stuff all over the couch. I think he was cleaning the floors or something, uhh…fed Napoleon. I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet, but at one point he was going to go up and take a shower and it took a lot of convincing prior when he was shaving. I was like, I got some ideas, and they didn’t turn out good at all, not like I wanted to, but I thought that I could get some cool pictures of him shaving, ‘cause he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don’t know how it works. Umm…but he liked it though, apparently, because he used it for his profile picture on My Space. Umm…so those didn’t turn out as good and I was going to do that later but I asked him if I could take pictures of him in the shower, and he’s like, “No.” I was just like, “I have an idea.” “Well, what do you mean?” I was like, I said, I saw this thing in a Calvin Klein ad once and it looked really good, and you’re right, he wasn’t really comfortable at first. He’s standing there and he says, “I feel gay.” (Laughs)
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She told the shower story after DF told her Travis didn't look comfortable in the shower. Notice all of the -style embellishment throughout her lies. ...he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don't know how it works...he is standing there and says "I feel gay"....

The whole story doesn't flow well. The shaving/convincing story is blurred because she was making those details up in the moment. She was trying to convince DF the shower photos were consensual. She concurs with DF at the end-- 'you're right, he wasn't really comfortable at first'.

Nothing took a lot of convincing that day. Not before, not then. Travis did not know she was taking photos until too late.

Also notice "I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet"
Not. She knew what he was doing the whole day. She sure tried to add this important bit casually.

"I wasn't sitting on the couch" is a strange statement. Don't people usually say where they were sitting? Not where they were not sitting?
I think I can pick on the paragraph all day long.

Every time she says 'umm' she's self-editing and stopping a truth from coming out, what follows is a story she's making up - she was right there but didn't know what he was doing on the phone or internet, she thinks he was 'cleaning the floors or something' but doesn't know - neither of these things are damning to her so why the hesitancy? Why does one shaving/shower pic taking episode run into the other?

I still believe she tailored her whole story to what the evidence showed trying to make it most favorable to herself and the day was wholly different than what we've been led to believe.

 

[geevee]

Photo uploaded directly from cell phone versus the photo taken from laptop screen.

(DS reaching for ginormous cinnamon bun in Kansas)

Good comparison, the bun has more color in the laptop screen pic.

 

[Hope4More]

I agree, I think JM did/does believe they had sex that day, but after reading the texts and chats and such, I don't think it was anywhere near as often as she'd have others believe, I don't even think they were ever a 'real' couple, even while they were supposedly GF/BF he never took her on dates and she paid her own portion of trips they went on together. Yeah they grinded and had the one bathtub/braids/tootsie/pop rocks occasion but I think that was the only time they shared that level of knowing each other.

JM was wise enough to not fall into weeds we have, of proving her every lie, he didn't need to in order to convict her, I wish I could be satisfied similarly but I want every lie exposed, I don't want her getting away with anything (eeevil sis that I am).

Consider that she said they became "official" on February 2, 2007 (btw, I despise that juvenile term!!).

That's an interesting choice of date, as it is just 2 days after the much distorted at trial email exchange between Sky, Chris and Travis, their disagreement engineered by the .

In that exchange Travis tells Sky and Chris, explicitly, that: he is not ready for a serious relationship; that he had told the just that; that he has told the she should date other men, preferably Mormons; and that though he liked her, he had only known her for 4 months, and that the was far more interested in him that he was comfortable with.

Two days later he wants to be "official" with her? Lol. Not.

 

[Hope4More]

Every time she says 'umm' she's self-editing and stopping a truth from coming out, what follows is a story she's making up - she was right there but didn't know what he was doing on the phone or internet, she thinks he was 'cleaning the floors or something' but doesn't know - neither of these things are damning to her so why the hesitancy? Why does one shaving/shower pic taking episode run into the other?

I still believe she tailored her whole story to what the evidence showed trying to make it most favorable to herself and the day was wholly different than what we've been led to believe.

IMO she began to spit out the shaving story when asked about TA being comfortable with shower photos because taking those two sets of photos, consecutively, was her original plan, which is why she made the automatic linkage.

The problem for her was, as she realized mid-stream, was that Flores knew from the recovered memory card that Travis had not in fact agreed to the shaving photos. Oops. So, she had to make the shaving story be from a previous time, which she tried to pretty up by saying that TA liked the shaving photo well enough to use it on his profile page.

The not sure what he was doing for that one stretch of time....I think she was unsure, because Travis managed to escape her clutches for a brief time she couldn't control for what ever reason. And the not sitting on the couch...yep, making it up as she went along, the same as her trial testimony language of "Travis would have been happy to see me," rather than " Travis WAS happy to see me, "etc.

 

[pocketaccent]

I agree, I think JM did/does believe they had sex that day, but after reading the texts and chats and such, I don't think it was anywhere near as often as she'd have others believe, I don't even think they were ever a 'real' couple, even while they were supposedly GF/BF he never took her on dates and she paid her own portion of trips they went on together. Yeah they grinded and had the one bathtub/braids/tootsie/pop rocks occasion but I think that was the only time they shared that level of knowing each other.

JM was wise enough to not fall into weeds we have, of proving her every lie, he didn't need to in order to convict her, I wish I could be satisfied similarly but I want every lie exposed, I don't want her getting away with anything (eeevil sis that I am).

BBM
I wish JM would read our forum. He should learn how to use computers. He would be surprised by the sheer amount of weeds we've uncovered and weeds in progress. But as Hope said, his priority at the time of trial was to prove premeditation. He and DF were so elated to find the sex photos which placed her in Mesa. Gas cans proved premeditation. He mainly worked around those two.

 

[geevee]

Consider that she said they became "official" on February 2, 2007 (btw, I despise that juvenile term!!).

That's an interesting choice of date, as it is just 2 days after the much distorted at trial email exchange between Sky, Chris and Travis, their disagreement engineered by the .

In that exchange Travis tells Sky and Chris, explicitly, that: he is not ready for a serious relationship; that he had told the just that; that he has told the she should date other men, preferably Mormons; and that though he liked her, he had only known her for 4 months, and that the was far more interested in him that he was comfortable with.

Two days later he wants to be "official" with her? Lol. Not.

So agree, not even in her wildest dreams. I think Travis allowed the girlfriend/boyfriend tags after the supposed break up because they did share some sexuality and it was gentlemanly of him but at the end I think some of the bad words towards her reflected how awful he felt about having done that, he never saw her as a girlfriend, much less wife material and used the harshest words to illustrate it. And we don't know how much he may have learned about her and those words may have honestly applied - we do know how he truly felt she treated him - like a dildo with a heartbeat, only there for her desires and caring nothing about him.

 

[pocketaccent]

My sisters are simply incorrigible...

We are impossible but lovable! :blowkiss:

 

[geevee]

IMO she began to spit out the shaving story when asked about TA being comfortable with shower photos because taking those two sets of photos, consecutively, was her original plan, which is why she made the automatic linkage.

The problem for her was, as she realized mid-stream, was that Flores knew from the recovered memory card that Travis had not in fact agreed to the shaving photos. Oops. So, she had to make the shaving story be from a previous time, which she tried to pretty up by saying that TA liked the shaving photo well enough to use it on his profile page.

The not sure what he was doing for that one stretch of time....I think she was unsure, because Travis managed to escape her clutches for a brief time she couldn't control for what ever reason. And the not sitting on the couch...yep, making it up as she went along, the same as her trial testimony language of "Travis would have been happy to see me," rather than " Travis WAS happy to see me, "etc.

I still have grave doubts she was in the house at all during that span of time, she doesn't seem to know anything about what he was doing.

 

[Hope4More]

Just a bit of musing...

Isn't it curious that the does not mention having sex with Travis on the 4th in either her 18 handwritten page letter to torment TA's family? Or in her gloating, 36 typewritten page "manifesto"?

She included lots of other precisely targeted to hurt details, but not that one. Hmm. Even though she took great care in both to portray Travis as promiscuous in general, and obsessed with her sexually, more specifically. Hmm.

Why not? Wouldn't she think TA having sex with her that day was an integral part of her triump over him, a detail not to be omitted in her litany of how he debased himself that day?


I wonder if she didn't mention sex on the 4th in either letter or screed because she thought there was a way she could still explain away the sex photos?

Which would only make sense if she did not take them on the 4th, because she admitted in both to taking the "tasteful" shower photos, and to being there.

 

[RickshawFan]

TxJan1971's transcrips of the interrogation
31:00
JA: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, after noon. I just, you know…He had been cleaning his house umm…so I couldn’t… I wasn’t sitting on the couch. Usually I would just chill on the couch downstairs, you know, if no one was home. Umm…but he had like chairs and all that stuff all over the couch. I think he was cleaning the floors or something, uhh…fed Napoleon. I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet, but at one point he was going to go up and take a shower and it took a lot of convincing prior when he was shaving. I was like, I got some ideas, and they didn’t turn out good at all, not like I wanted to, but I thought that I could get some cool pictures of him shaving, ‘cause he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don’t know how it works. Umm…but he liked it though, apparently, because he used it for his profile picture on My Space. Umm…so those didn’t turn out as good and I was going to do that later but I asked him if I could take pictures of him in the shower, and he’s like, “No.” I was just like, “I have an idea.” “Well, what do you mean?” I was like, I said, I saw this thing in a Calvin Klein ad once and it looked really good, and you’re right, he wasn’t really comfortable at first. He’s standing there and he says, “I feel gay.” (Laughs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She told the shower story after DF told her Travis didn't look comfortable in the shower. Notice all of the -style embellishment throughout her lies. ...he does the whole old-fashioned thing with like this little, I don't know how it works...he is standing there and says "I feel gay"....

The whole story doesn't flow well. The shaving/convincing story is blurred because she was making those details up in the moment. She was trying to convince DF the shower photos were consensual. She concurs with DF at the end-- 'you're right, he wasn't really comfortable at first'.

Nothing took a lot of convincing that day. Not before, not then. Travis did not know she was taking photos until too late.

Also notice "I don’t know if he made phone calls or not or what he was doing on the internet"
Not. She knew what he was doing the whole day. She sure tried to add this important bit casually.

"I wasn't sitting on the couch" is a strange statement. Don't people usually say where they were sitting? Not where they were not sitting?
I think I can pick on the paragraph all day long.

Great observations, Pocket. Those exact places got my attention, about the shaving and the couch.

With the couch floridity, she was establishing a) that she often hung out at TA's and it would be nothing special for her to be there: she wants to make it look like everything is normal and her presence was always consensual; b) with this and some other details, e.g the wacky video, she was actually in the house at the time and she could prove it. I would venture to bet that the opposite was somehow true. She made it seem TA was relaxed while she was there. The couch floridity was supposed to conceal or distract from something. IMO.

The shaving thing might have been a stalling tactic, since EF was getting close to the shower topic.

gets florid when she's overthinking.

 

[geevee]

Just a bit of musing...

Isn't it curious that the does not mention having sex with Travis on the 4th in either her 18 handwritten page letter to torment TA's family? Or in her gloating, 36 typewritten page "manifesto"?

She included lots of other precisely targeted to hurt details, but not that one. Hmm. Even though she took great care in both to portray Travis as promiscuous in general, and obsessed with her sexually, more specifically. Hmm.

Why not? Wouldn't she think TA having sex with her that day was an integral part of her triump over him, a detail not to be omitted in her litany of how he debased himself that day?


I wonder if she didn't mention sex on the 4th in either letter or screed because she thought there was a way she could still explain away the sex photos?

Which would only make sense if she did not take them on the 4th, because she admitted in both to taking the "tasteful" shower photos, and to being there.

That is mighty curious indeed.

 

[pocketaccent]

TxJan1971's transcript
29:19
JA: Yes, we had sex a couple of times. Once was in his bed and once was again downstairs in his office. He was looking at some pictures that I had brought for him, but he has a virus on his computer, so when he clicked the Start menu on Windows XP or Windows 2000 or whatever, you have like My Pictures, My Music, My Computer. You can usually click on My Computer and then go into the disc drive and open that. He clicked the Windows and it come up and none of that My Pictures, My Music, none of that would come up, so he had some kind of virus he was dealing with. His screensaver was a bunch of little bugs eating up the screen. It was just weird, and he said that is from the virus, too. I said, “That’s a cute screensaver,” and he said, “Yeah, it’s my stupid virus.” For some reason, that was frustrating for both of us, because we couldn’t look at the pictures, and they were from a lot of our church history trips which are on my other external drive which I haven’t been able to access for a long time, since after Christmas, because it just quit, and I just haven’t had the money to spend to get all that stuff back.
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Sisters, please help me understand the bolded part.
She says they couldn't look at the pictures on the CDs because of the virus, then she goes right into saying those pictures were in her external drive which she hadn't been able to access since Christmas.

Then how did she get those photos onto the CDs she brought?

Is she trying to say it is not her fault her external drive quit on her? When in fact she gently broke it on purpose?

 

[RickshawFan]

TxJan1971's transcript
29:19
JA: Yes, we had sex a couple of times. Once was in his bed and once was again downstairs in his office. He was looking at some pictures that I had brought for him, but he has a virus on his computer, so when he clicked the Start menu on Windows XP or Windows 2000 or whatever, you have like My Pictures, My Music, My Computer. You can usually click on My Computer and then go into the disc drive and open that. He clicked the Windows and it come up and none of that My Pictures, My Music, none of that would come up, so he had some kind of virus he was dealing with. His screensaver was a bunch of little bugs eating up the screen. It was just weird, and he said that is from the virus, too. I said, “That’s a cute screensaver,” and he said, “Yeah, it’s my stupid virus.” For some reason, that was frustrating for both of us, because we couldn’t look at the pictures, and they were from a lot of our church history trips which are on my other external drive which I haven’t been able to access for a long time, since after Christmas, because it just quit, and I just haven’t had the money to spend to get all that stuff back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sisters, please help me understand the bolded part.
She says they couldn't look at the pictures on the CDs because of the virus, then she goes right into saying those pictures were in her external drive which she hadn't been able to access since Christmas.

Then how did she get those photos onto the CDs she brought?

Is she trying to say it is not her fault her external drive quit on her? When in fact she gently broke it on purpose?

Did she even have an external drive? Most people used thumb drives in 2007-2008. Or a DVR. But a hard drive when you're broke? Fat chance.

 

[geevee]

TxJan1971's transcript
29:19
JA: Yes, we had sex a couple of times. Once was in his bed and once was again downstairs in his office. He was looking at some pictures that I had brought for him, but he has a virus on his computer, so when he clicked the Start menu on Windows XP or Windows 2000 or whatever, you have like My Pictures, My Music, My Computer. You can usually click on My Computer and then go into the disc drive and open that. He clicked the Windows and it come up and none of that My Pictures, My Music, none of that would come up, so he had some kind of virus he was dealing with. His screensaver was a bunch of little bugs eating up the screen. It was just weird, and he said that is from the virus, too. I said, “That’s a cute screensaver,” and he said, “Yeah, it’s my stupid virus.” For some reason, that was frustrating for both of us, because we couldn’t look at the pictures, and they were from a lot of our church history trips which are on my other external drive which I haven’t been able to access for a long time, since after Christmas, because it just quit, and I just haven’t had the money to spend to get all that stuff back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sisters, please help me understand the bolded part.
She says they couldn't look at the pictures on the CDs because of the virus, then she goes right into saying those pictures were in her external drive which she hadn't been able to access since Christmas.

Then how did she get those photos onto the CDs she brought?

Is she trying to say it is not her fault her external drive quit on her? When in fact she gently broke it on purpose?

I've not been able to figure that out either, did she download the pics to the CD before Christmas and for whatever she can't now get into that HD? Why even mention it? Unless of course questions about it were likely to arise later. And why would not being able to get a CD open be frustrating 'for some reason'? It seems completely reasonable, if it were the truth. Seems like between the murder and the arrest she bashed up every piece of electronic equipment she owned that might have evidence on it.

 

[RickshawFan]

TxJan1971's transcript
29:19
JA: Yes, we had sex a couple of times. Once was in his bed and once was again downstairs in his office. He was looking at some pictures that I had brought for him, but he has a virus on his computer, so when he clicked the Start menu on Windows XP or Windows 2000 or whatever, you have like My Pictures, My Music, My Computer. You can usually click on My Computer and then go into the disc drive and open that. He clicked the Windows and it come up and none of that My Pictures, My Music, none of that would come up, so he had some kind of virus he was dealing with. His screensaver was a bunch of little bugs eating up the screen. It was just weird, and he said that is from the virus, too. I said, “That’s a cute screensaver,” and he said, “Yeah, it’s my stupid virus.” For some reason, that was frustrating for both of us, because we couldn’t look at the pictures, and they were from a lot of our church history trips which are on my other external drive which I haven’t been able to access for a long time, since after Christmas, because it just quit, and I just haven’t had the money to spend to get all that stuff back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sisters, please help me understand the bolded part.
She says they couldn't look at the pictures on the CDs because of the virus, then she goes right into saying those pictures were in her external drive which she hadn't been able to access since Christmas.

Then how did she get those photos onto the CDs she brought?

Is she trying to say it is not her fault her external drive quit on her? When in fact she gently broke it on purpose?

My guess...they didn't go on many church history trips together. All this was to make her seem Mormonish and good wife material for TA while oops not being able to offer evidence of that.

 

[geevee]

Did she even have an external drive? Most people used thumb drives in 2007-2008. Or a DVR. But a hard drive when you're broke? Fat chance.

Like the storage unit she had her cameras/memory cards in that she couldn't get into anymore? She's a mile a minute liar.

 

[geevee]

My guess...they didn't go on many church history trips together. All this was to make her seem Mormonish and good wife material for TA while oops not being able to offer evidence of that.

That, or she was afraid the laptop forensics wouldn't show any CD being opened and was just trying to make excuses for why the disc was there at all.

 

[Hope4More]

TxJan1971's transcript
29:19
JA: Yes, we had sex a couple of times. Once was in his bed and once was again downstairs in his office. He was looking at some pictures that I had brought for him, but he has a virus on his computer, so when he clicked the Start menu on Windows XP or Windows 2000 or whatever, you have like My Pictures, My Music, My Computer. You can usually click on My Computer and then go into the disc drive and open that. He clicked the Windows and it come up and none of that My Pictures, My Music, none of that would come up, so he had some kind of virus he was dealing with. His screensaver was a bunch of little bugs eating up the screen. It was just weird, and he said that is from the virus, too. I said, “That’s a cute screensaver,” and he said, “Yeah, it’s my stupid virus.” For some reason, that was frustrating for both of us, because we couldn’t look at the pictures, and they were from a lot of our church history trips which are on my other external drive which I haven’t been able to access for a long time, since after Christmas, because it just quit, and I just haven’t had the money to spend to get all that stuff back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sisters, please help me understand the bolded part.
She says they couldn't look at the pictures on the CDs because of the virus, then she goes right into saying those pictures were in her external drive which she hadn't been able to access since Christmas.

Then how did she get those photos onto the CDs she brought?

Is she trying to say it is not her fault her external drive quit on her? When in fact she gently broke it on purpose?

I think there are too many related lies from too many occasions to sort that one out.

1. She wrote she needed a HD in her journal before leaving Mesa, on a (wish) list that included prices.

2. She told TA in mid-April she was trying to make him a CD of the photos he requested. Those wouldn't have been of church trips. He wanted the photos for his website.

3. She told him her computer kept "freezing," not the first time she told him she was having problems with her computer.

4. She told him she'd get the CD's made by using her gmother's computer, or using her memory card in a "friend's" camera (a " professional photographer") which happened to be the same kind of camera she owned, or that she'd download from her memory stick at a drugstore onto a CD.

She did none of the above.

5. The photo of a CD on TA's desk in JM's book is labelled in her handwriting. Will try to post it...
(rotated pic so you can read what she wrote more easily. Notice the photos listed are not from church trips, surprise, surprise.)

6. Twas an interesting virus, one that didn't prevent TA from watching videos or checking his blog and email early on the 4th, nor sending an email before 5pm, but somehow made looking at photos with the impossible.

One possibility on the last point-- she mentioned a virus as one of her accomplishments, given she was responsible for polluting his computer on other occasions, but any difficulty that day was more likely because she was messing with his head, offering the CD's, after having scratched them so badly they were unusable (payback for a spat they had after she had "accidentally" destroyed 2 of his PD CD's in just the same way).