Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[Steve44]

You're a good egg, Steve. Myself, I never harbored any illusions that the will ever reflect on anything other than what she needs to do next in order to secure whatever it is she wants or needs.

She's a predator, so she needs prey, she feeds on conflict and drama, so I've never doubted she'd create the kind of conflict she feels confident she can control and win.

If I had to guess, I'd guess she took on the child-killer becauze it pissed her off the child -killer had blabbed unflattering blabs about the via her murder groupie, and because the is using her advantage of greater mobility against the DR'ed child -killer.

Meh. And whatever.

Truth be told what struck me was simply the absurdity of the optics and the depth of the delusions-- two vicious murderers in whatever internal power struggle, each trying to project themselves as philanthropists to the outside world in order to secure donations to advance their own interests and to best the other.

I guess we have SM to thank for this theater of the absurd.

I admire your practical realism (and wry humor).

I had to perform mental gymnastics and attempt to turn Arias' head inside out to convince myself what was obvious to you. But then, I've always felt that for every What there's a Why and a How, and the picture will always be incomplete without all three.

 

[Hope4More]

I admire your practical realism (and wry humor).

I had to perform mental gymnastics and attempt to turn Arias' head inside out to convince myself what was obvious to you. But then, I've always felt that for every What there's a Why and a How, and the picture will always be incomplete without all three.

Oh, I typically contemplate and deconstruct that how and why in the what, examining every sliver of possibility from every angle, and then again, each time the kaleidoscope of possibilities shifts patterns.

But, in this circumstance, the examination of the 's capacity for remorse or introspection or the like? That process was exceptionally brief. Have you subjected yourself to the tedious work of reading even a few pages of her journal? Enough said on that count. And as for remorse.

The answered any question I might have had about her capacity for remorse when she told the PP2 jury during secret testimony - "I just wish I had that day to do over again.". As JM said in any different context - have any truer words (by her) ever been spoken?


BTW. The admiration of wry humor is mutual (and for your skilled word-smithing).

 

[LinTX]

Court of Appeals update.


Appellant motion requesting management conferences was denied on May 17.

May 19. Appellant attorneys filed motion to extend the due date for opening briefs, and gave notice they want to "supplement the (trial) record."

Her attorneys are allowed one (fairly) automatic 30 day extension of the deadline for briefs.

Not sure if the clock resets from the current date (which would make new deadline July 27), or from the date the motion is granted (hasn't been recorded yet).

The supplementing the record request. (Edited).

Reread what I posted about this a few days ago. Her attorneys had 30 days after the completion of the trial record to request to supplement (as opposed to additions) to the record.

My first assumption was these supplements would involve transcriptions, likely further delaying the filing date for briefs. But, dunno. Maybe LinTx does?

Nothing I've found states when the clock starts, but I would imagine with all those transcripts they will get more time. How much? No idea. But this is a motion for more time than the extra 30 days (70 day total). If it were just the 30day extension, that doesn't require a motion.

As for supplements, yes, that will extend the deadline for filing of the brief, but since they're considering both extensions in the same motion, they should be able to establish firm dates for both. Hopefully we'll have dates before too long?

 

[Steve44]

Oh, I typically contemplate and deconstruct that how and why in the what, examining every sliver of possibility from every angle, and then again, each time the kaleidoscope of possibilities shifts patterns.

But, in this circumstance, the examination of the 's capacity for remorse or introspection or the like? That process was exceptionally brief. Have you subjected yourself to the tedious work of reading even a few pages of her journal? Enough said on that count. And as for remorse.

The answered any question I might have had about her capacity for remorse when she told the PP2 jury during secret testimony - "I just wish I had that day to do over again.". As JM said in any different context - have any truer words (by her) ever been spoken?


BTW. The admiration of wry humor is mutual (and for your skilled word-smithing).

Thanks, no I never read her journals directly. I knew it would be the creme' dela creme' of her superficial aspect. I was looking for the truth behind the falsehood, so no need to run the maze of her falsehoods. She was prolific enough painting that picture without needing to mine the mundane minutiae.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the do-over, and I think Juan would approve of your re-purposing his words. That she had no guilt, remorse, or sense of social responsibility was clear enough, but that doesn't mean she was just sitting at the zero-point on that spectrum. The second white rental car, second gun, more knives, and other behaviors indicated more than just a neutral attitude toward what she had done. One could speculate a blooming enthusiasm, or at least a suspicious looking bud.

 

[Hope4More]

Nothing I've found states when the clock starts, but I would imagine with all those transcripts they will get more time. How much? No idea. But this is a motion for more time than the extra 30 days (70 day total). If it were just the 30day extension, that doesn't require a motion.

As for supplements, yes, that will extend the deadline for filing of the brief, but since they're considering both extensions in the same motion, they should be able to establish firm dates for both. Hopefully we'll have dates before too long?

The COA hearing for the motions was on May 20, so they've likely already ruled. Wasn't there earlier today, I checked.

There are 2 motions, one to supplement, the other for an extension. The 30 day extension, if I understand correctly , is automatic only in the sense it doesn't have to be justified, but a motion is still necessary.

The 2nd motion to supplement may or may not be granted, depending, I think, on what exactly her attorneys are requesting. I've seen several similar motions that were denied by the COA, but since the content of the motions isn't included on the record, there is no way of knowing the COA's reason for the denials.

In reading general info on what supplemental info appellate attys might request, the cardinal rule seemed to be the attorneys need to gin up a very compelling legal rational for requesting what isn't typically included as part of the record (or the additions to the record that must be -and were- requested shortly after the appeal was originally filed) if that is their request, and not something more mundane like additional indices or the like.

(Where did you see a request for 70, not 30 days extension? )

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks, no I never read her journals directly. I knew it would be the creme' dela creme' of her superficial aspect. I was looking for the truth behind the falsehood, so no need to run the maze of her falsehoods. She was prolific enough painting that picture without needing to mine the mundane minutiae.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the do-over, and I think Juan would approve of your re-purposing his words. That she had no guilt, remorse, or sense of social responsibility was clear enough, but that doesn't mean she was just sitting at the zero-point on that spectrum. The second white rental car, second gun, more knives, and other behaviors indicated more than just a neutral attitude toward what she had done. One could speculate a blooming enthusiasm, or at least a suspicious looking bud.

My vote is that it was bloom, not the bud.

Her journals. Yes, there certainly is an over abundance of not-truths to be found there. Those not-truths were in fact, though, the only trace evidence of any originality to be found.

Otherwise, her journals are stunningly boring and juvenile, crammed for the most part with regurgitated self-help and PPL related platitudes. Excruciating. Really.

 

[Steve44]

The COA hearing for the motions was on May 20, so they've likely already ruled. Wasn't there earlier today, I checked.

There are 2 motions, one to supplement, the other for an extension. The 30 day extension, if I understand correctly , is automatic only in the sense it doesn't have to be justified, but a motion is still necessary.

The 2nd motion to supplement may or may not be granted, depending, I think, on what exactly her attorneys are requesting. I've seen several similar motions that were denied by the COA, but since the content of the motions isn't included on the record, there is no way of knowing the COA's reason for the denials.

In reading general info on what supplemental info appellate attys might request, the cardinal rule seemed to be the attorneys need to gin up a very compelling legal rational for requesting what isn't typically included as part of the record (or the additions to the record that must be -and were- requested shortly after the appeal was originally filed) if that is their request, and not something more mundane like additional indices or the like.

(Where did you see a request for 70, not 30 days extension? )

Perhaps the supplements have to do with the non-testimony of the non-witnesses who were too scared out of their wits to appear in court because of the Travis-loving-social media-monsters that secured injustice for Jodi through intimidation and thus prevented the sanctification of Saint Jodi, who after all just had a brief lapse in judgement.

 

[LinasK]

A not-appeals, purely mischievous and irrelevant as all-get out update. My attention has been largely elsewhere for the past little while, but someone pointed me towards this glob of mess, and I'll park it here for y'all.


Looks like the hasn't been able to resist creating drama, even in max custody. Who she seems to have chosen to make enemies with is the child -killer on death row, and the child-killer seems to have chosen likewise.

What a spectacle. Two malevolent murderers, competing with one another to bring in the most donations to help their fellow inmates, lol. The with her "bookdrive" to build a better library (she who once set a goal for herself of reading 4-5 books a year, iirc), and the child-killer with HER book and educational materials drive so she has materials to tutor inmates reading at the 2nd and 3rd grade level.

Or so go their stories. The who wants all the books sent directly to her, and the child killer on DR who has said before she isn't allowed direct contact with other inmates.

The relying on the truly twisted folks at JAII to spread the good word about her book drive (and to go after the child -killer), the child-killer relying upon a single blog writing, murder-groupie to spread the good word about her charitable impulses (and to go after the , though her blogging groupie censored most of the killer's revelations about the killer).

And to think this is the whole of the 's reality.

Okay, so let's help out! Who wants to send Jodi copies of Juan's book, Nurmi's, the book of Mormon, 1,000 places to see before you die, and other select reading materials??? Maybe we can locate some pedo pamphlets too!

 

[Steve44]

Okay, so let's help out! Who wants to send Jodi copies of Juan's book, Nurmi's, the book of Mormon, 1,000 places to see before you die, and other select reading materials??? Maybe we can locate some pedo pamphlets too!

It would just give her ammunition to use in her claims to being the real victim, but then it would also give ammunition to those around her not under her spell. Eh, just better to stay out of it. All the justice that could have been done has been done. You can't get blood from a stone, and you can't get remorse from a psychopath.

 

[TexMex]

I think something snapped in her when her parents had more children and she went from "golden child" to mere "babysitter".
She felt her parents "abandoned" her in favor of the younger kids..triggering the bpd

 

[Steve44]

I think something snapped in her when her parents had more children and she went from "golden child" to mere "babysitter".
She felt her parents "abandoned" her in favor of the younger kids..triggering the bpd

Not much there in the way of explanation, imo.

She was a first-born with siblings, so she became a psycho ---now, it may have been a trigger for a pre-existing condition, but I don't see anything relevant to first causes in this very common circumstance.

 

[Frigga]

Well, something triggered the BPD, it doesn't come about all on its very own. No ones giving her a pass here, believe you mean but it was something.

 

[Steve44]

Well, something triggered the BPD, it doesn't come about all on its very own. No ones giving her a pass here, believe you mean but it was something.

Well, I had a girl friend whom I suspect had BPD, she was also first-born with two younger siblings, but she also had a mother who according to her was very cold and not at all nurturing. I would look to the latter rather than the former. I don't know if Sandy fits the bill, though she did have a long-term marriage, girl friends mother, not so much.

 

[Steve44]

Thanks for the appeal updates, H4M. All the legal-ese confuses me. What more could possibly be added as a supplement? New evidence is not allowed.
Very interesting conversation about the killer's psychopathy. I too think she is a psychopath vs a sociopath.
Self reflection? As Steve said, she is incapable of it for reasons he so eloquently stated.
JA and the child killer are reduced to junior high school games of who can out do the other for attention and to keep relevant. Both of them deserve each other. Book drives- give me a break!

Forget the book drives, I won't take sides until I know who donated the most hair!

 

[RickshawFan]

The COA hearing for the motions was on May 20, so they've likely already ruled. Wasn't there earlier today, I checked.

There are 2 motions, one to supplement, the other for an extension. The 30 day extension, if I understand correctly , is automatic only in the sense it doesn't have to be justified, but a motion is still necessary.

The 2nd motion to supplement may or may not be granted, depending, I think, on what exactly her attorneys are requesting. I've seen several similar motions that were denied by the COA, but since the content of the motions isn't included on the record, there is no way of knowing the COA's reason for the denials.

In reading general info on what supplemental info appellate attys might request, the cardinal rule seemed to be the attorneys need to gin up a very compelling legal rational for requesting what isn't typically included as part of the record (or the additions to the record that must be -and were- requested shortly after the appeal was originally filed) if that is their request, and not something more mundane like additional indices or the like.

(Where did you see a request for 70, not 30 days extension? )

I bet they're trying to get the pedo letters in?

 

[RickshawFan]

Okay, so let's help out! Who wants to send Jodi copies of Juan's book, Nurmi's, the book of Mormon, 1,000 places to see before you die, and other select reading materials??? Maybe we can locate some pedo pamphlets too!

Those items might be too edifying, IMO. I was thinking more along the lines of "100 ways to do a waxless Brazilian while in solitary." "How to mix a mean Beano-ccino." "See Spot Run, bwahaha, you never will." "Mormon Whoredoms and what they mean to me." "Lifetime achievement awards for the lifer: AZ prison version."

 

[RickshawFan]

Well, something triggered the BPD, it doesn't come about all on its very own. No ones giving her a pass here, believe you mean but it was something.

I don't think there's enough data on BPD triggers. And BPD wasn't Jodi's only mental health issue. She had plenty else going that might have fostered her murderous streak.

 

[Steve44]

I bet they're trying to get the pedo letters in?

But they have to do with Travis. I would think that any supplemental considerations would have to be directly related to Jodi, such as the 'missing' witnesses. Of course the defense made no attempt to subpoena them when they had the opportunity, it was a choice, not a reversible error. I don't think an appeal can be based on the argument that the defense could have done a better job, or chosen B instead of A when both were valid choices.

 

[Steve44]

Those items might be too edifying, IMO. I was thinking more along the lines of "100 ways to do a waxless Brazilian while in solitary." "How to mix a mean Beano-ccino." "See Spot Run, bwahaha, you never will." "Mormon Whoredoms and what they mean to me." "Lifetime achievement awards for the lifer: AZ prison version."

Or:

"50 space-savers for your prison cell"

""Does my celly want to kill me?" How to get along in prison"

"35 fun things to do with cockroaches"

 

[TexMex]

The most common triggers are relationship triggers. Many people with BPD experience intense fear and anger, impulsive behavior, self-harm, and even suicidality in the wake of relationship events that make them feel either rejected criticized or abandoned. This is a phenomenon called abandonment sensitivity.

As for causes of BPD:


Research on the causes and risk factors for BPD is still in its early stages. However, scientists generally agree that genetic and environmental influences are likely to be involved.

Certain events during childhood may also play a role in the development of the disorder, such as those involving emotional, physical and sexual abuse. Loss, neglect and bullying may also contribute. The current theory is that some people are more likely to develop BPD due to their biology or genetics and harmful childhood experiences can further increase the risk.