Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[pocketaccent]

I'm concluding the was utilizing her un-stolen Helio to eventually destroy Travis' reputation. She purposely and methodically saved all of T's texts that displayed anger, jealousy, un-Mormon like behavior, and craving for her. Also saved the rape fantaxy texts she sent to herself and the sex recording. I wouldn't put it past her to forging some of abuse letters as well, but am thinking the Helio was her main weapon at this time.

On May 18, the phone is un-stolen. By May 22, she has a new phone. So the un-stolen phone contains T's text messages from Early April to May 18. I'm sure she deleted parts of hers so T's texts are out of context.

I think she in all seriousness began to forge the pedo letters after she murders T when Ryan informs her that everyone is pointing fingers at her.

By the time she is arrested, I think the letters and the un-stolen Helio were already given (possibly when she was returning from T's memorial service) to MM for safe keeping.

 

[Hope4More]

Are you sure was allowed personal property of the victim in jail with her?

Was there anything in those journals that was construed as "evidence"?

If these are true, a jail-ee could claim almost anything under the "evidence" category.

Also IIRC, any documents beyond a certain limited volume are kept under lock and key and can only be accessed with permission. If she had the journals and was required to look at them in the document repository, she likely would have had merely a supervised glance at them and then surreptitiously to have written the counterfeit letters in her cell. Perhaps then she'd not have a chance to double check her handiwork. This might explain the incompetent job she did even if she had access to the journals, though perhaps thinking (as always) she did great!

Hi Rickshaw...

Nurmi wrote in his book, the context being her forgery of the letters, that the had access to TA's journals, yes, while in Estrella.

Which ones, though, and when?

It wasn't until June 11, 2010 (2 months have Bob White PDFs were sent) that the Court ordered Sky to turn over TA's journals in her possession (to Flores).

The only TA journal I know for sure that LE collected in 2008 was the last one he wrote in (a grand total of about 12 pages, front and back).

That journal wouldn't have been considered TA's personal property. It was evidence collected at a crime (murder) scene.

The assumption has been that the needed examples of TA's writing to refer to for her forgery efforts (if forged in Estrella).

But...maybe she didn't. She had months of access to his handwriting, both before & after she left Mesa, and she had access to his checking account.

Could be she had found more occasion than we've ever speculated about (or have we, lol) to practice his signature...and more.

 

[RickshawFan]

I thought of this while grocery shopping. lol

The first time she called Brewer 'sometime' in May, she told him she was going to Mesa. On purpose. Maybe she was setting up an alibi. She was actually going to Utah. Maria M was luring Travis to Utah at this time.
Some bad things happen. (we don't know what exactly)

We know Travis didn't go to Utah. The doesn't call Brewer back 'later that week.'

That's pretty genius, PA! JA got hoisted by one of her alib-lies? Mesa as a red-herring for a trip to Utah to meet with and dispatch TA, whom she'd enticed there?

Wow.....

 

[RickshawFan]

<snip>

1. She decided to kill Travis BEFORE she left Mesa. She may even have left Mesa when she did BECAUSE she had already decided to kill him, and her being 1,000 miles away would be crucial to how her kill- scenario needed to play out.

<snip>

This whole scenario is VERY convincing to me. I snipped it because there was no need to clip the whole.

#1 especially caught my attention.

Hard to believe this was a couple of years ago—my thought was that the night that JA spent in the UHaul near TA's and he brought a pillow out to her, but didn't invite her in.... I think this night was crucial.

must have been enraged at this pillow gesture. (TA was likely scared to death of her rage, too, and clear that he couldn't have her in the house.)

I'm thinking she rehearsed the murder scenario that night. She scoped out the neighborhood, knew where to park, took special pains to observe routine comings and goings, checked out the back window, verified she could "listen in" on his MSM so she'd know exactly what was up in the moment and where he'd be in the house if he was on MSM, listened for his shower .....EVERYTHING she needed to know and verify and anticipate in order to pull off the perfect murder.

She then drives the exact route to Pasadena that she'll drive in the other direction in June. Then back to Yreka. For no apparent reason, since she'd driving a gas-guzzling (spendy) UHaul truck and could easily have taken a shorter and more budget-friendly route. Her excuse was a visit to what's-his-name, but her real purpose might have been the scope-out and not her sleazy friend.

She timed everything.

 

[Hope4More]

Some dates & context, for general purposes, FWIW (I posted a whole-thing version of this once upon a time).

1. When Nurmi took over in fall 2009, trial was scheduled for August 2010.

In February 2010, he had ninjas, a lying liar butchering client who had told his 2 psych experts different stories (12/09 & Samuels- no DV, ninjas; 2/10 & Karp- massive amount of DV (to "prove" PTSD, in order to explain her fog/amnesia) (note the triple decker lie).

2. Nurmi didn't have any mitigation witnesses lined up, because he couldn't find anyone who genuinely liked or trusted her (including anyone in her family). And, he didn't have any witnesses lined up to trash TA, because every TA friend/associate that he or his team spoke had respected and loved/ liked TA.

3. We know the felt rage about all that. She tried to get rid of her first team, precisely because she didn't like what they were telling her.

What else she might have been feeling/thinking is suggested in the letter wrote his family in July '08, that line about how she knew that Flores was right, and that NOTHING she could possibly say about Travis could possibly change their opinion of him (nor the opinion of any of those who had loved Travis).

And ...so.....perhaps she dug deep into her private cesspool for a something?

4. At the time Nurmi received the Bob White -10 forged letters, the State had turned over VERY few of the texts on TA's phone.

5. Also, the DT had not yet received ANY info from the following accounts:

1. TA's Gmail (emails)
2. ' Gmail (emails)
3. TA's MySpace
4. TA's LDSLinkUp
5. TA's PhotoBucket

I don't know if either the State or the DT had either TA's or 's Facebook records at that point (there's no mention of those records in the Court Minutes, iirc).

Even if the DT had FB records for both, that's pretty much all Nurmi -or more importantly, the - had to refer to for a timeline, if she were inclined to forge dated letters to produce "evidence" for a trial at that point scheduled to begin in just a few short and evidence-lacking months.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm really enjoying all our speculation as much as any of our earlier "sleuthing". There's something very compelling about how this little group throws around ideas. It's endless subject detail and very enjoyable slicing and dicing.

And, ya know, sometimes it's easier to see patterns if you forget some of the precise details: the brain can spin out gestalt from not getting bogged down in minutiae.

It's interesting how this group is proposing possibilities that might never have appeared on the horizon were it not for a little forgetfulness. These scenarios seem very fresh to me.

Not to mention this is literary analysis at it's very best. We would be making our college profs smirk with gladness at how brilliant we've all become at "textual analysis."

I appreciate you all and our inspired forgetting....

 

[Hope4More]

Her ultimate goal was to have T excommunicated? Expose him with the phone, T gets excommunicated, loses all Mormon competitors, finally marries the ?

But who kept the phone in a safe place for her post-murder? MM comes to mind but could be Gus too.

When Travis exposed her by playing NA55 game, or maybe she believed NA55 was a real person, it was time for him to die? Extreme rageful BPD symptom makes her call Brewer in mid-May?

Her un-lost phone, containing sex recording and only the selective texts from T, matches her journal, while pedo letters don't. Her post-murder journal entries don't seem to be good enough excuse though (to me at least), if in case police suspected her.

(Your nothing new, old analysis posted above is priceless. Too good, Hope4More!)

On April 7 (?) Travis threatened to expose her as a psycho, jealous stalker who invaded his privacy, hacked his SM, trespassed into his house, and who, no matter how much & gently he had tried, just wouldn't leave him alone.

He warned her several more times post-Mesa and before mid-May that he was out of patience, afraid he was beginning to "despise" her, and that if she kept it up, he was going to seek "revenge."

What the manufactured countered every point of that: TA was wildly jealous of any man she even mentioned; he was crazy for her goddess body; he hacked into HER SM; he wouldn't let HER move on; he continued to make plans to see her; he couldn't move on (later she send a dead Travis a VM and email telling him she knew he'd told her to crash anytime at his house, but she wanted to give him a head's up).

The phone containing her counter narrative was not-stolen on May 18. By that time, perhaps what had begun as just a handy, as-needed counter narrative became a convenient use-as-soon-as-possible weapon.

Again, that email we did not see but the PP2 jury did- sent by to TA on May 24 or 25, saying she had to go to her bishop, STAT, about SEX.

Whatever her intention was in telling TA that, he had to have perceived it as a "dire" threat. Her bishop to his bishop.

Taylor Searle says TA told him all about what happened on May 26. Taylor asked TA if he was worried about what she might do, but (and?) he ALSO said TA told him that the exchange ended with the being extremely upset after TA told her he was completely and absolutely and totally done with her.

Nothing like that exchange happened online. If that's how things ended, that final blow off by TA & her going over the brink happened during the phone call right after the chat ended.

And, if what Taylor said is an accurate account, especially her response, it doesn't sound very much like she anticipated his response to whatever her gameplan was between May 22-26 (as JM wrote, perhaps she had simply pushed him too far). (And IMO, that was only possible because he was really & truly done with her).

The end.

 

[Hope4More]

This whole scenario is VERY convincing to me. I snipped it because there was no need to clip the whole.

#1 especially caught my attention.

Hard to believe this was a couple of years ago—my thought was that the night that JA spent in the UHaul near TA's and he brought a pillow out to her, but didn't invite her in.... I think this night was crucial.

must have been enraged at this pillow gesture. (TA was likely scared to death of her rage, too, and clear that he couldn't have her in the house.)

I'm thinking she rehearsed the murder scenario that night. She scoped out the neighborhood, knew where to park, took special pains to observe routine comings and goings, checked out the back window, verified she could "listen in" on his MSM so she'd know exactly what was up in the moment and where he'd be in the house if he was on MSM, listened for his shower .....EVERYTHING she needed to know and verify and anticipate in order to pull off the perfect murder.

She then drives the exact route to Pasadena that she'll drive in the other direction in June. Then back to Yreka. For no apparent reason, since she'd driving a gas-guzzling (spendy) UHaul truck and could easily have taken a shorter and more budget-friendly route. Her excuse was a visit to what's-his-name, but her real purpose might have been the scope-out and not her sleazy friend.

She timed everything.

IIRC, Rickshaw, you have always believed the had murder on her mind as she left Mesa, and that she'd rehearsed parts of her plan before leaving.

That you've thought so all along earns you points for consistency of theory.

I never have and never will qualify for those points, lol. Have you read any of my post-posts to the one you agree with? Hint: I've changed my mind. Again.

(Are points allotted for returning pretty much full circle to one's original opinion, after having broken the kaleidoscope from too many twirls?)

 

[RickshawFan]

Points are allotted for all speculation provided it's at least obliquely related to fact!

Regarding my speculation that scoped out the murder the night before she left Mesa, she might have done so merely to soothe herself, as in "I could kill him right now, that's how he makes me feel." She wouldn't be the first to have that thought! Rehearsing it might have been an extreme form of this self-soothing: "I could do this, it makes sense to me, and this is how I would do it if I felt like it."

Then, a month or so later she could have dug out her old fantasy-acting-out and put it to use for real, since he continued to make her livid and never backed off.

I don't believe for a moment JA eventuated every evil fantasy she dreamed up. A few, perhaps, and then she recorded them, or they somehow showed up in our texts. But there have to have been hundreds more she acted out in private.

 

[Hope4More]

Points are allotted for all speculation provided it's somewhat related to fact!

Regarding my speculation that scoped out the murder the night before she left Mesa, she might have done so merely to soothe herself, as in "I could kill him right now, that's how he makes me feel." She wouldn't be the first to have that thought! Rehearsing it might have been an extreme form of this self-soothing: "I could do this, it makes sense to me, and this is how I would do it if I felt like it."

Then, a month or so later she could have dug out her old fantasy-acting-out and put it to use for real, since he continued to make her livid and never backed off.

I don't believe for a moment JA eventuated every evil fantasy she dreamed up. A few, perhaps, and then she recorded them, or they somehow showed up in our texts. But there have to have been hundreds more she acted out in private.

FWIW, by the time that left Mesa, she had spent months spying on TA's everything, everyone, and everywhere, including his neighborhood (she told him she'd driven around & around in it, virtually every night), and his home (crept in nearly every night to sneak-sleep on his couch -she said) (nah- she crept in to check if he had anyone over, and to snoop his phone & computer).

She had her sneaking, creeping, spying, robbing TA of all privacy routine perfected well before she left.

And her route to way-west instead of going less far west then north? IMO she didn't need any practice for that "route" either, as she really wanted a Helio from Gus. . (And had whatever business to take care of with MM).

 

[RickshawFan]

FWIW, by the time that left Mesa, she had spent months spying on TA's everything, everyone, and everywhere, including his neighborhood (she told him she'd driven around & around in it, virtually every night), and his home (crept in nearly every night to sneak-sleep on his couch -she said) (nah- she crept in to check if he had anyone over, and to snoop his phone & computer).

She had her sneaking, creeping, spying, robbing TA of all privacy routine perfected well before she left.

And her route to way-west instead of going less far west then north? IMO she didn't need any practice for that "route" either, as she really wanted a Helio from Gus. . (And had whatever business to take care of with MM).

All of the above. None of it is mutually exclusive with my point.

 

[RickshawFan]

Now I have to see what H4M was looking at as far as borderline rage moments. This is entirely necessary for some reason!

5 minutes later..... Woah! 10 seconds of that and snap to stop.

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks to a very kind soul, I now have a copy of every Motion & ruling by the State, JSS, and 's attorneys relating to the sealing of 's record during & post trial, and of opening briefs.

One mystery is solved: why the 's civil attorney Karen Clark is listed as "special counsel" on her criminal case's COA docket, and what, if anything, Clark's involvement in the 's appeal might be.

Answer: Clark isn't and won't be involved in any capacity in the 's direct appeal to the COA.

She requested and received permission to access 's ENTIRE trial record, including everything that had been put under seal, for purposes of her civil case against Nurmi, and for "administrative" work she is doing for the .

That "administrative work" almost certainly refers to the Bar complaints she has filed against JM, as Nurmi had already been disbarred at the time of her request.

I'll post a brief summary later of the arguments the State and her attorneys have made about sealing opening briefs. It isn't impossible that the COA will refuse to allow the entirety of opening briefs (trial record attached) to be sealed.

 

[geevee]

So you got the motion to seal the briefs and not the opening briefs themselves? I guess that would have been too good to be true lol but kudos on getting that trove!

Looking forward to your summary, you're becoming one of my most favorite writers.

 

[Hope4More]

So you got the motion to seal the briefs and not the opening briefs themselves? I guess that would have been too good to be true lol but kudos on getting that trove!

Looking forward to your summary, you're becoming one of my most favorite writers.

The 's opening brief isn't due yet. Not until June 6.

I'm pretty sure the COA granted her attorneys' 3rd (and final) extension request to give both sides time to prepare & present arguments relating to sealing the appellate record.

's attorneys want the entire appellate record sealed, "at least" until the COA rules on her appeal. (Note that nervy "at least" language).

Their argument that the whole record should be sealed - including opening briefs- is twofold.

1. Everything should be sealed because everything was sealed after trial and so much was sealed during trial, and by consistently granting their requests to seal supplements to the trial record, the Court has indicated sealing is appropriate, and if the Court wants further information about why the whole record should be sealed, they'll be happy to discuss their reasons- in a sealed setting where matters of sealing are best discussed.

2. Everything needs to be sealed because the public is still "absurdly" and wildly interested in everything and anything relating to the and her appeals. Which is a problem justifying sealing because....because....because...

On that they are not so clear, save their vague assertion that unspecified members of the public are at risk if the entire record isn't sealed.

(Typing & going back to edit is an uphill fight here tonight for whatever reason. Waving white flag of surrender until tomorrow).

 

[pocketaccent]

I'm really enjoying all our speculation as much as any of our earlier "sleuthing". There's something very compelling about how this little group throws around ideas. It's endless subject detail and very enjoyable slicing and dicing.

And, ya know, sometimes it's easier to see patterns if you forget some of the precise details: the brain can spin out gestalt from not getting bogged down in minutiae.

It's interesting how this group is proposing possibilities that might never have appeared on the horizon were it not for a little forgetfulness. These scenarios seem very fresh to me.

Not to mention this is literary analysis at it's very best. We would be making our college profs smirk with gladness at how brilliant we've all become at "textual analysis."

I appreciate you all and our inspired forgetting....

I'm still slicing and dicing............ Currently on June 4th....... thinking about the fact that she wore gloves that day. Not one finger print found, not on clorox bottle, not on washing machine, not on master bedroom door knob, not in the shower area, not in guest bathroom, not anywhere. Police found her palm print and hair. No finger print. ......And some other things.

 

[geevee]

The 's opening brief isn't due yet. Not until June 6.

I'm pretty sure the COA granted her attorneys' 3rd (and final) extension request to give both sides time to prepare & present arguments relating to sealing the appellate record.

's attorneys want the entire appellate record sealed, "at least" until the COA rules on her appeal. (Note that nervy "at least" language).

Their argument that the whole record should be sealed - including opening briefs- is twofold.

1. Everything should be sealed because everything was sealed after trial and so much was sealed during trial, and by consistently granting their requests to seal supplements to the trial record, the Court has indicated sealing is appropriate, and if the Court wants further information about why the whole record should be sealed, they'll be happy to discuss their reasons- in a sealed setting where matters of sealing are best discussed.

2. Everything needs to be sealed because the public is still "absurdly" and wildly interested in everything and anything relating to the and her appeals. Which is a problem justifying sealing because....because....because...

On that they are not so clear, save their vague assertion that unspecified members of the public are at risk if the entire record isn't sealed.

(Typing & going back to edit is an uphill fight here tonight for whatever reason. Waving white flag of surrender until tomorrow).

I'm not at all surprised that they want everything sealed but using the reasoning that there is still so much public interest doesn't make a lot of sense to me, how could the public knowing what the appeal basis is alter the COA's decision in any manner?

And why oh why didn't JSS unseal everything once the trail was finally over? This case will never be over for me until every single thing is finally unsealed, I can only imagine how much more damaging some of these sealed facts are to Ms. Einstein. I want to know what I don't know! lol

 

[geevee]

I'm still slicing and dicing............ Currently on June 4th....... thinking about the fact that she wore gloves that day. Not one finger print found, not on clorox bottle, not on washing machine, not on master bedroom door knob, not in the shower area, not in guest bathroom, not anywhere. Police found her palm print and hair. No finger print. ......And some other things.

I don't know why I haven't wondered about that before Pocket, except for the palm print, not a single finger print in areas we know she touched, she had to have had gloves on. Do tell, what 'other things'? Are rabbit holes opening?

 

[pocketaccent]

I don't know why I haven't wondered about that before Pocket, except for the palm print, not a single finger print in areas we know she touched, she had to have had gloves on. Do tell, what 'other things'? Are rabbit holes opening?

For now, my bullet points say:

-Sony manual:
https://docs.sony.com/release/dsch7_handbook.pdf
page 83,
Date on T's camera can be set as:
Y/M/D or
M/D/Y or
D/M/Y

Did the , who was obsessed with manufacturing 'evidence' that T was a repugnant guy, manipulate his camera? Photos were supposed to be dated 04/06/08?
She wanted to make a CD? Not-T's Flickr acct related? The afternoon virus incident?

I remember Val mentioned something similar a long long time ago, but we didn't put much thought into it at that time though.
I'm aware of problems w/ this. The camera was purchased after April 6th. Need to assume murder is earlier.

Oh, the kept saying she had stayed in T's house for a week before she left Mesa. Made sure to put that in her journal, too.

- plan to re look at shower photo sequence. She took the face photo twice. 8 seconds apart.

-She didn't know Enrique was home on June 4th. : 'I only knew Zack was there'. (Interrogation) Want to re look at this.

 

[geevee]

Just saw this:

Jodi Arias' Former Cellmate Reveals Tattoos Given to Her by Arizona Killer

Lisa?