Serological Reports (blood)

[Wudge]

There were many things found on that lot that have nothing to do with the case. I believe some shotgun shells were also found. Do some think these shotgun shells will also become exculpatory evidence because they cannot be connected to either Caylee or KC?

This does not make sense to me at all.

How big is the hole in the blanket?

 

[seagull65]

There were many things found on that lot that have nothing to do with the case. I believe some shotgun shells were also found. Do some think these shotgun shells will also become exculpatory evidence because they cannot be connected to either Caylee or KC?

This does not make sense to me at all.

But we were talking about the 2nd blanket by the remains and the body fluids on the items with the remains. Not known yet if there's anything inculpatory or exculpatory, but who knows, fingers crossed.

p.s. that is such a pretty dog in your avatar

edited to add: yours too, Friday

 

[seagull65]

Well, they did state negative in a couple places -- both in the tables and in the summary reports. And, you're right, some of the "no blood confirmed" is due to a QNS or "Quantity Not Sufficient" result. This means that there's just not enough sample to say whether there was blood either way. (Which, in itself, is telling...)

Ok, so I'm working on making a pdf document that contains all of the serological/blood/semen pages that was in the honking 2000 page doc dump. Some of them are spread out. Right now I'm just making sure it's complete, and I'll post it here when it is. Then we'll all be on the same page. (Uh, no pun intended ).

Thanks very much, Panama. If it's convenient, could you put the link here again, so I'm sure I'm looking at the same one, and tell me the page #? I don't think I'm looking in the right place yet. Thanks again for your help

 

[seagull65]

I think the "koala" is only the name on the tag, right? I'm assuming it will be found to be a known blanket of Caylee's, of course you never know, but I'm still hopeful the body fluids could provide some useful information one way or another.

 

[marspiter]

Here is some other info on the Kastle-Meyer color test:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastle-Meyer_test

While the Kastle-Meyer test has been reported as being able to detect blood dilutions down to 1:107, there are a number of important limitations to the test. The test will give a false positive result when in the presence of vegetable peroxidases, such as those in horseradish, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.[2] Additionally, other oxidizing species in the sample will also cause a false positive. Chemical oxidants such as copper and nickel salts will cause the Kastle-Meyer reagent to turn pink before the addition of the hydrogen peroxide, thus it is vitally important to add the reagent first, then wait a few seconds, then add the hydrogen peroxide.

The Kastle-Meyer test has the same reaction with human blood as it does with any other hemoglobin-based blood, so a confirmatory test such as the Ouchterlony Test must be performed to definitively conclude what from which species the blood originated.

Color catalytic tests are very sensitive, but not specific. The positive color test alone should not be interpreted as positive proof of blood. A negative result is generally proof of the absence of detectable quantities of heme, however a false postive can be generated in the presence of a reducing agent.

I have played around with this some in my forensic classes (way back when) and I can verify that other tests are needed to "confirm" the presence of blood in a sample. This test does give the investigator a good initial test on a sample. This is usually used first because it is rather non-evasive, but not as definitive. When compared to other tests for blood sampling. This test can also be done right at the crime scene and is usually found in the forensic "kit". They also have a stick/paper test that works on this same principal.

 

[USARDOG]

p.s. that is such a pretty dog in your avatar

post edited for brevity. Warning, OT post...

Sorry for being OT, but that is one of the best dogs I ever knew, and the most loyal, and fun dog that ever owned me. That is a Belgian Malinois named Magic, and boy was he ever. We will meet again at the bridge I'm sure.

 

[Friday]

I don't pretend to know if semen was or was not found on the blanket. However, the existence of a Koala blanket (unsourced at this time as best I know) appears to be secure.

As days and weeks roll by, I am getting evermore the feeling that the government might well have another baby Sabrina case on its hands (Marlene, Steve and Sabrina Aisenberg).

It was around this time of the year that baby Sabrina was reported missing in 1997. Coincidentally, her disappearance was another Florida case (Tampa ... Hillsborough county).

Sabrina's parents, Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, were eventually charged with obstruction of justice and conspiracy. That case was every bit the crimetainment fodder that this case is. Media denizens had a field day with Marlene being dragged from her home with her hands handcuffed behind her back.

The FBI had Steve on tape admitting that he killed Sabrina, and Federal prosecutors had tons of other incredibly incriminating statements from wiretaps and a bugging of the Aisenberg's house.

Prosecutors had the tapes transcribed, took them to a Grand Jury and got the indictments they sought.
In the crime forums I posted in, I was a lonesome voice that held to 'not guilty' prior to the pending trial. The Grand Jury had received transcripts, so I took pause.

In the end, baby Sabrina was never found, and Marlene and Steve Aisenberg were awarded 2.9 million dollars. History has its lessons.

FWIW

Resp bold and underscored by me.

If I recall correctly, this is the case where the house was "bugged" for weeks, perhaps months, but the audio tapes were so badly garbled that they were almost completely inaudible. Since the prosecutors couldn't possibly expect the Grand Jury to understand what was on the virtually useless tapes, the prosecutors had them "transcribed" based on what the prosecutors themselves decided they heard.

The prosecutors then presented the falsified transcripts to the Grand Jury, who issued an indictment based on the transcripts. The Aisenbergs were then arrested and subjected to the torment of a media circus and the torture and expense of preparing to defend themselves in a forthcoming trial for the disappearance (murder?) of their baby girl.

I can't recall whether it was before or during the trial that the Aisenberg's attorney was able to prove that the prosecution's transcripts were nothing but fictionalized accounts of what was audible on the garbled tape.

The Aisenberg's sued and received the $2.9 million, but in my opinion, the prosecutors deserved not only a prison sentence but a public flogging for using their power to flagrantly pervert the law and deliberately destroy the lives of two people who were virtually powerless to defend themselves.

I'm sure I've misstated some of the pertinent facts, but is this the case you were referring to, Wudge?

And if it is the case you were referring to, and if I have the general facts correct, I sincerely hope that you did not intend to imply that LE and/or the prosecutors in the KC Anthony case are also guilty of some sort of deliberate misconduct.

 

[panama]

Here is a document containing all of the blood/semen serological info from the 11-6-09 document dump. (Maybe there were serological results in previous doc dumps, I'm not sure.) Hmm...I tried to upload the pdf here, but it failed. I put it on filedropper instead. Link: http://www.filedropper.com/11-6-09seroexams

[ETA: they also looked for DNA even when there wasn't blood/semen. All of the DNA info isn't in the document I linked to! Thanks Seagull65 for bringing this up!]

Below is the verbatim information (except for the /NEG tables) relating to blood and semen detection from the linked document. (I added some of the bullets/formatting, and the note in blue.)


TEST BATCH from Report dated July 24, 2009
(Page 11990 - 11991. Duplicate list of some of the items on 12115-6)

ITEMS FROM MEDICAL EXAMINER OFFICE
Q80 Shorts (1B113, E4381291)
Q81 Clothing (1B111, E4381289)
Q82 Blanket (1B110, E4381288)
Q84 Laundry bag (1B115, E4381293)

ITEMS FROM SCENE
Q103 Blanket (H-60493, Item 32, Q110)
Q104 Tape (H-60493, Item 16, Q100)
Q237 Bottle (H-60518, Item 8, Q94)
Q238 Bottle (H-60518, Item 3, Q90)
Q240 Plastic bag (H-60518, Item 3, Q90)
Q240.1 Syringe from within Q240 (H-60518, Item 3, Q90)

ITEMS FROM VEHICLE
Q242 Knife (H-51975, Item #8, Q80)
Q244 Doll (H-51975, Item 3, Q216)

ITEMS FROM RESIDENCE
Q245 Rug (H-60498, Item 4, Q209)

ADDITIONAL ITEM FROM VEHICLE
Q248-Q248.4 Napkins (1-60085, Item 1, Q217)

"received under cover of communication"
Q294 Piece of fabric from right scapula (lB260, E4382285)

ITEMS FROM TRUNK OF VEHICLE
Q297-Q298 Swabs from bottom of gas container #1 (H-52099, Item 1, Q220)
Q299-Q300 Swabs from interior of oil pan (H-52099, Item 2, Q221)
Q301-Q302 Swabs from bottom of gas container #2 (H-52099, Item 3, Q222)

ITEMS PROVIDED BY ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
Q303 Swab from clean wipes pack in back pack (J-60340, Item 2, Q232)
Q304 Swab from comb handle in back pack (J -60340, Item 1, Q231)
Q305-Q306 Swabs from pump of inflatable bed (H-52177, Item 2, Q224)
Q307-Q308 Swabs of male portion of cord from flat iron (H-52177, Item 1, Q223)

Results of Examinations:

• A chemical test for the possible presence of blood was positive on specimens Q81, Q82, Q84, Q103, Q248.1, Q248.2, Q248.3, and Q248.4; however, the presence of blood was not confirmed.
• Specimens Q80, Q240.1, Q242, Q244, Q245, Q248, Q294, Q297 through Q308 were examined for the presence of blood; however, none was detected.
• Specimens Q80, Q81, Q82, and Q103 were examined for the presence of semen; however, none was detected.

NOTE: the actual /NEG test results that appear in tables are only for the items in the above batch. [i.e., items Q80, Q81, Q82, Q84, Q103, Q244, Q245, Q248.1, Q248.2, Q248.3, Q248.4, Q294, Q242, Q240.1] We'll have to take their word for it in the rest of the results in the following batches.


Test Batch from report dated October 8, 2008
(Page 12369-12370)

ITEMS FROM VEHICLE - FLORIDA TAG # G63 XV
Q13-Q14 Swabs from spare tire cover (Item Q-13)

ITEMS FROM VEHICLE - FLORIDA TAG # G63 XV
Q22 Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item #22, Q-18)
Q23 Spare tire cover (OCSO Item #26, Q-21)
Q24 Left side oftnmk liner (OCSO Item #25, Q-20)
Q25 Right side of trunk liner (OCSO Item #24, Q-19)

ITEMS FROM SHOVEL
Q29-Q30 Swabs from -shovel handle (OCSO Item #1, Q-22)
Q31-Q32 Swabs from tip of shovel (OCSO Item # 2, Q-23)

ITEMS FROM CLOSET OF EAST ROOM OF 4937 Hope Spring Drive
Q33 Pants (OCSO Item #1, Q-25)
Q34 Pants (OCSO Item #10, Q-34)
Q35 Pants (OCSO Item #11, Q-35)
Q36 Skirt (OCSO Item #2, Q-26)
Q37 Skirt (OCSO Item #8, Q-32)
Q38 Skirt (OCSO Item #9, Q-33)
Q39 Shirt (OCSO Item #3, Q-27)
Q40 Shirt(OCSO Item #4, Q-28)
Q41 Shirt (OCSO Item #5, Q-29)
Q42 Shirt (OCSO Item #6, Q-30)
Q43 Shirt (OCSO Item #7, Q-31)

ITEMS FROM VEHICLE - FLORIDA TAO # 063 XV
Q44 Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item # 2, Q 16)
Q45 Piece of spare tire cover (OCSO Item # 31, Q-24)

Results of Examinations:

• Specimens Q13, Q14, Q22, Q23, Q24, Q25, Q29, Q30, Q31, Q32, Q34, Q36, Q37, Q38, Q39, Q40, Q44 and Q45 were examined for the presence of blood; however, none was detected.
• Specimens Q33, Q35; and Q41 through Q43 were visually examined for the presence of blood; however, none was detected.

Test Batch from report dated December 16, 2008
(Page 12364)

ITEMS FROM 1998 PONTIAC SUNFIRE GT, FL TAG G63 XV
Q47 Car seat (OSCO Item #30, Q-45)
Q48 Steering wheel cover (OSCO Item #6, Q-41)
Q55 Debris from spare tire wheel well (OSCO Item #8, Q-43)
Q56 Swab from spare tire wheel well (OSCO Item #9, Q-44)

Results of Examinations:

• Specimens Q47, Q55 and Q56 were examined for the presence of blood; however, none was detected.
• Specimen Q48 was visually examined for the presence of blood; however, none was detected.

Hope this helps

 

[Friday]

post edited for brevity. Warning, OT post...

Sorry for being OT, but that is one of the best dogs I ever knew, and the most loyal, and fun dog that ever owned me. That is a Belgian Malinois named Magic, and boy was he ever. We will meet again at the bridge I'm sure.

In the meantime, I wish there was a way I could tell your Magic to go play with my Hawk, because our two guys have a lot in common. I'm going to change my avi soon. Makes me ache when I see it.

Oh, sorry, I'm OT too. Bye.

 

[Wudge]

Resp bold and underscored by me.

If I recall correctly, this is the case where the house was "bugged" for weeks, perhaps months, but the audio tapes were so badly garbled that they were almost completely inaudible. Since the prosecutors couldn't possibly expect the Grand Jury to understand what was on the virtually useless tapes, the prosecutors had them "transcribed" based on what the prosecutors themselves decided they heard.

The prosecutors then presented the falsified transcripts to the Grand Jury, who issued an indictment based on the transcripts. The Aisenbergs were then arrested and subjected to the torment of a media circus and the torture and expense of preparing to defend themselves in a forthcoming trial for the disappearance (murder?) of their baby girl.

I can't recall whether it was before or during the trial that the Aisenberg's attorney was able to prove that the prosecution's transcripts were nothing but fictionalized accounts of what was audible on the garbled tape.

The Aisenberg's sued and received the $2.9 million, but in my opinion, the prosecutors deserved not only a prison sentence but a public flogging for using their power to flagrantly pervert the law and deliberately destroy the lives of two people who were virtually powerless to defend themselves.

I'm sure I've misstated some of the pertinent facts, but is this the case you were referring to, Wudge?

And if it is the case you were referring to, and if I have the general facts correct, I sincerely hope that you did not intend to imply that LE and/or the prosecutors in the KC Anthony case are also guilty of some sort of deliberate misconduct.

You have the right case.

My rememberance is that it was the FBI (Lab I believe) who first heard what was not on the tapes, twenty-four different times.

It's a good thing that the FBI has made any mistakes in this case, or I might think the FBI can not be trusted (ok, I think that).

 

[panama]

One notable result: No blood on the syringe. (See table on page 12321 for details.)

 

[Friday]

Pay close attention to the mountain of evidence in this case, put a mark by any item of evidence that is truly inculpatory evidence. It won't take long.

Okay, but what is the difference, if any, between "inculpatory" and "truly inculpatory?"

 

[Wudge]

Okay, but what is the difference, if any, between "inculpatory" and "truly inculpatory?"

In making your marks, just make sure that you do not hold corroborative evidence to be inculpatory evidence.

 

[TakeNote]

THANK YOU PANAMA :hug:

 

[panama]

Could a donor of any of the body fluids potentially be identified by antigens or other characteristics, even if the fluids are not complete?

Yes! In fact, even when they didn't find blood or anything, they went on to look for DNA. (Could have been there from body fluids, or even skin cells.) They discuss the results of that in some of the sero reports as well -- both in the link I posted above, and I believe in the rest of the main document. I didn't mention that since we were focusing on blood/semen. lol.

Perhaps we can investigate the DNA stuff further here...

 

[Friday]

In making your marks, just make sure that you do not hold corroborative evidence to be inculpatory evidence.

So that we don't make mistakes, could you please give a simple explanation and an example of evidence that is corroborative vs. evidence that is inculpatory? TIA

 

[cecybeans]

My good friend Cat was talking to me today and she had an idea.

What if KC decided to frame her parents? If GA was taking testosterone for any number of reasons and CA did the injection, what if KC grabbed a used needle from the house and stuck it in a cardboard tube and put it in Gatorade and planted it next to the body? (either at the time or later; she was certainly in and out of there often enough). It could explain why Caylee was found so close to home. I'm not saying this is a fantastically thought out plan, but if she originally planned to have her parents go down for the murder (and KC thought she would say "I wasn't even home, they kicked me out of the house") she may have thought she had gotten rid of all three birds with one stone and could inherit the place. GA's drugs, CA's prints. I just remember how JB said about this time last year we'd all be shocked.

 

[ZsaZsa]

My good friend Cat was talking to me today and she had an idea.

What if KC decided to frame her parents? If GA was taking testosterone for any number of reasons and CA did the injection, what if KC grabbed a used needle from the house and stuck it in a cardboard tube and put it in Gatorade and planted it next to the body? (either at the time or later; she was certainly in and out of there often enough). It could explain why Caylee was found so close to home. I'm not saying this is a fantastically thought out plan, but if she originally planned to have her parents go down for the murder (and KC thought she would say "I wasn't even home, they kicked me out of the house") she may have thought she had gotten rid of all three birds with one stone and could inherit the place. GA's drugs, CA's prints. I just remember how JB said about this time last year we'd all be shocked.

Oh, good one!
And you know, ALL the theories we have discussed would be possible with what we know of Casey!

 

[USARDOG]

My good friend Cat was talking to me today and she had an idea.

What if KC decided to frame her parents? If GA was taking testosterone for any number of reasons and CA did the injection, what if KC grabbed a used needle from the house and stuck it in a cardboard tube and put it in Gatorade and planted it next to the body? (either at the time or later; she was certainly in and out of there often enough). It could explain why Caylee was found so close to home. I'm not saying this is a fantastically thought out plan, but if she originally planned to have her parents go down for the murder (and KC thought she would say "I wasn't even home, they kicked me out of the house") she may have thought she had gotten rid of all three birds with one stone and could inherit the place. GA's drugs, CA's prints. I just remember how JB said about this time last year we'd all be shocked.

"Don't worry, I haven't told them anything."

 

[Wudge]

So that we don't make mistakes, could you please give a simple explanation and an example of evidence that is corroborative vs. evidence that is inculpatory? TIA

Some examples of corroborative evidence are: false or misleading statements made to LE or others; dog sniffing and/or dog tracking (bowser's nose) evidence; the behavior of a defendant, including behavior taken to be consciousness of guilt.

HTH