Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

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MINAZOE - All you have here is a difference between a glass half full (Baden) and a glass half empty (ME/PD). I refer you to an earlier post where I told you folks about a fellow that was convicted of killing a prostitute by strangulation and the ME could find no evidence of same. The body was in the ground for too long ( less than 2 months) so the ME couldn't make a determination.

In the SG case I believe the ME said the cause of death was 'undetermined.' On its face it is a perfectly valid opinion to make. What does trouble me is the cops, meaning the stupid police commissioner go out and say SG probably drowned or died from the elements. Maybe she did; maybe she didn't. All I can tell you is something stinks and it sure looks like the DA/cops are hiding something.

IN CLOSING: I know some of you bird brains monitor these posts. This one is just for JIMMY. I am curious why you would find it necessary to go to the Queens Homicide Bureau/DA office and hang out there when your duties back then did not concern homicide? What were you looking for.
 
This is totally a long-shot but thought I would ask because I can't find video anymore. I remember after Shannan Gilbert went missing I was surfing the internet and came across a bizarre video (possibly on youtube) from some guy that was discussing the SG case and it was slightly weird. The guy said he was former LE and think he was religious too, but I can't remember the specifics anymore because it was years ago. Did anyone else ever come across video or know anything about it? It could be nothing and just someone interested in helping solve these cases, but I can't find the video anymore and wanted to check it out again. If anyone knows, please let me know where I can find it.

Eta- 17 potential victims - were all of the victims escorts/prostitutes (with the exception of the toddler); did all victims have some sort of substance abuse problem; and were all victims previously arrested for prostitution? Obviously, prostitutes would be more likely to have some arrest record, but is it possible there is a link? (ie John Bittrolff is on trial for allegedly murdering two women and I think both had arrest records?)

Jmo/Tia
 
hawkshaw said:
MINAZOE - All you have here is a difference between a glass half full (Baden) and a glass half empty (ME/PD). I refer you to an earlier post where I told you folks about a fellow that was convicted of killing a prostitute by strangulation and the ME could find no evidence of same. The body was in the ground for too long ( less than 2 months) so the ME couldn't make a determination.

In the SG case I believe the ME said the cause of death was 'undetermined.' On its face it is a perfectly valid opinion to make. What does trouble me is the cops, meaning the stupid police commissioner go out and say SG probably drowned or died from the elements. Maybe she did; maybe she didn't. All I can tell you is something stinks and it sure looks like the DA/cops are hiding something.

IN CLOSING: I know some of you bird brains monitor these posts. This one is just for JIMMY. I am curious why you would find it necessary to go to the Queens Homicide Bureau/DA office and hang out there when your duties back then did not concern homicide? What were you looking for.
Click to expand...

Clean your mailbox out Hawk. :doh:
 
got it and cleaned it out. u have a PM for me? send it on.
 
I refreshed myself about Shannan's case. It seems obvious to me that she was afraid of her own driver too. Because too many things about this article below indicates the driver may have been in the 1st clients house as well as driving to find her after she ran out the nice neighbors house.

The neighbor said as soon as she took off, he sees the driver. The asian man he describes in the SUV. So Shannon almost would have had to see him too and if she was not afraid of her own driver, then IMO she would have ran towards his car and not away from it to hide under the boat.

The incident starts in the 1st clients house. I have a bad feeling about this particular driver. Below are some snipets from article. Notice it starts right in the clients house and since we know the driver was seen shortly after trying to find her when she is running, I think the driver was in the house with her and client(s). Could this have been a setup for a client to do whatever he wants to her including kill her?

I wonder if the plan was to drug her so much that client could do whatever he wanted and maybe not enough drugs and so client gets mad and orders her out as she is resisting and starting to scream. It is so bizarre this case but some clues are right there.

I wonder if her killer was the known people she was with and may have even been the driver. She wasnt just in a drug induced fake fear because she ended up dead that night.


From link:

"Shannan's sister believes something awful happened in that house to terrify her because of a 911 call Shannan made from right inside the client's home. It was 4:51 a.m. "

then later on in article as she is running from house to house.....

"I reached over and grabbed that phone, dialed 911," Colletti continued. "When I said to her, 'I called the police. Sit down in that chair. They're on their way,' She just looked at me and she ran right out the door."

"Colletti said it was then that he noticed an Asian man in his 30s driving a black SUV. It was Michael Pak, Shannan's driver."

"I could see a car come and stopping, coming a little bit and stopping," he said.

Asked if he thought Shannan was afraid of the man in the SUV, Colletti

replied, "She was afraid of somebody."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-uncovers-missing-escort-shannan-gilberts-final-minutes/
 
P.O. LINDSAY:
Commissioner, do our 911 operators have tracking devices when a phone call comes in? In
other words, if I call 911, can they -- do they know where I am?

COMMISSIONER DORMER:
Yes, that is correct. But if I may, Mr. Presiding Officer, the call that came in to our 911 system was
very, very short

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf

Shannan saying she's in Oak Beach or Jones Beach is irrelevant. As Dormer tries to bury, the PSAP is equipped with the technology to track the phone.

Sometimes people have accidents and can only dial 911, can't even say a word. How do you think they find those people?

Shannan could say "I'm on the Moon", it wouldn't matter. The operator could still find her. It was the tower that put Shannan on Suff. Co. PSAP in the first place. On top of that, same PSAP gets more calls in a few minutes about a girl running crazy in the Oak Beach neighborhood. At some point Varrone could hear Gus Coletti talking to 911, on Shannan's audio.
 
Would it be feasible for a family to sue Suffolk County for negligence in their failure to respond to Shannon's call?
 
There is one item that got my attention. But I am going on this by memory, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Shannan went missing in May, 2010. We know she used a cell phone to make a call for help.

Costello went missing in September, 2010. If memory serves me correctly it was said by her live-in friend that she didn't take her cell phone with her. My memory is that the person that called her told her not to bring her phone. I am to believe another girl had the same order given NOT to bring the cell phone.

We now know by Shannan having a cell phone is what launched the entire case into a major investigation. She didn't just disappear after visiting a client, she made a very distressing call to 911 and said 'they are trying to kill me.'

That makes me wonder if the information about Costello is true, i.e., the cell phone was to be left home, did it have anything to do with SG's situation. It appears as though someone didn't want a repeat of a SG situation.
 
hawkshaw said:
There is one item that got my attention. But I am going on this by memory, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Shannan went missing in May, 2010. We know she used a cell phone to make a call for help.

Costello went missing in September, 2010. If memory serves me correctly it was said by her live-in friend that she didn't take her cell phone with her. My memory is that the person that called her told her not to bring her phone. I am to believe another girl had the same order given NOT to bring the cell phone.

We now know by Shannan having a cell phone is what launched the entire case into a major investigation. She didn't just disappear after visiting a client, she made a very distressing call to 911 and said 'they are trying to kill me.'

That makes me wonder if the information about Costello is true, i.e., the cell phone was to be left home, did it have anything to do with SG's situation. It appears as though someone didn't want a repeat of a SG situation.
Click to expand...

whether someone belives SG and GB4 connected, that's one of the major red flags that puts a check mark in the "connected" box of SG and GB4
 
hawkshaw said:
There is one item that got my attention. But I am going on this by memory, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Shannan went missing in May, 2010. We know she used a cell phone to make a call for help.

Costello went missing in September, 2010. If memory serves me correctly it was said by her live-in friend that she didn't take her cell phone with her. My memory is that the person that called her told her not to bring her phone. I am to believe another girl had the same order given NOT to bring the cell phone.

We now know by Shannan having a cell phone is what launched the entire case into a major investigation. She didn't just disappear after visiting a client, she made a very distressing call to 911 and said 'they are trying to kill me.'

That makes me wonder if the information about Costello is true, i.e., the cell phone was to be left home, did it have anything to do with SG's situation. It appears as though someone didn't want a repeat of a SG situation.
Click to expand...

Maureen's phone was with her, but it appears she lost control of it.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ureen-Brainard-Barnes&p=10893839#post10893839

Melissa's phone was with her and it pinged at hotels in LI
She then checked her voicemail from two different motels in Massepequa (a Budget Inn and a Best Western).
http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...tutes_murdered_melissa_barthelemy.single.html

Megan's phone was in her room according to Lorainne Ela; but Megan's phone wasn't in her room, again according to Lorainne Ela. And according to Dave Schaller Amber didn't get her phone or her purse because she was told to do so. But somehow Police finds Dave Schaller by a medicaid card on Amber's body. IMHO his testimony is worthless and probably filled with lies fed to him.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=11049834#post11049834

The phone thing is pure bull..t, I believe injected by SCPD to bury the case even deeper. There's no mysterious John.

What is said about the man who called Melissa's sister that "he stayed on the phone too short" is ridiculous. "Staying short on the phone" is a long gone thing. It is 21st century, the moment your phone pings, your location is fixed. That's how it works.

Dave Schaller is left alone by the police (kinda drug supplier, kinda pimp). John Terry is left alone by the police (definitely pimp), I believe in return for their non-sensical testimonies about a man whom they never saw.



SCPD just wants the fire to extinguish itself. But it's not, bodies are building elsewhere.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/04/13/police-bagged-body-parts-found-along-lirr-tracks-in-queens/

EDIT: SCPD implies they are picked from Craigslist. That's another bull..t.. It is 21st century, there's no escort out there who doesn't have a form of online account. Maureen had her ad on another website for example. It was on Sexyjobs.com. There are women doing these kind of things on Facebook. Because online marketing is the industry standard. Maybe with the exception of crackwhores and lot lizards all working girls have an online account.

In Megan's case, it is clear that she is snatched from a road, where she was walking alone to a gas station at 1:30 in the morning, probably to buy some snacks and cigarettes. The common denominator of these four girls is they were alone, and they had no protection.
 
http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf

Reading ahead on the document it becomes clear why Shannan says Jones Beach

DORMER: Our operator answered the call from Shannon Gilbert. Shannon Gilbert doesn't know where she is.
The operator -- and I listened to the tape. The operator says, you know, "Do you have a landmark?" Just understand, this young lady is from New York City, all she knows is she's gone out to Long Island. She remembers Jones beach, she said, "Jones beach, I'm near Jones beach."


Now, why is Shannan saying Jones beach? Is she delusional?

She just mumbles the huge azz sign she saw on the road.
https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...h&sa=X&ei=blOPVdGIB8S9UcCclBg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

We know from Varrone that it's Michael Pak who was contacted by Brewer. Shannan probably knows she's got a date in Long Island and that's it.

So, if the operator located Shannan instead of pushing her to describe where she is, things could have been different.
 
JONES BEACH. Considering all the circumstances I believe it is perfectly natural for SG to say Jones Beach to the operator. It really isn't that far away. The eastern end of Jones Beach really isn't that far away from Gilgo.

What it does tell me is she arrived at the location coming from Jones Beach going E/B, and didn't come from the bridge on the e/s of Gilgo.
 
hawkshaw said:
JONES BEACH. Considering all the circumstances I believe it is perfectly natural for SG to say Jones Beach to the operator. It really isn't that far away. The eastern end of Jones Beach really isn't that far away from Gilgo.

What it does tell me is she arrived at the location coming from Jones Beach going E/B, and didn't come from the bridge on the e/s of Gilgo.
Click to expand...

Manhattan > Jones Beach Toll Plaza (Green Island) > Jones Beach >Gilgo Beach and Oak Beach. That must be the path they took.

As you pointed out, it's natural for Shannan to recall "Welcome to Jones Beach" sign when asked by the operator to define a "landmark".
 
Can somebody explain why a killer who loves to taunt the kins of his victims by calling them using the victim's phone, tells his will-be-victim not to bring her phone?
 
Emre E said:
Can somebody explain why a killer who loves to taunt the kins of his victims by calling them using the victim's phone, tells his will-be-victim not to bring her phone?
Click to expand...

You are ASSUMING the nut job that made those calls is the KILLER.
 
This is rather interesting...

For years we were told by the family that SG's hyoid bone was MISSING. We debated about whether or not that meant that she was strangled. Some here had theories of animals walking or flying away with this tiny bone. Others presented us with more elaborate theories that CPH visited SG's skeletal remains and removed her hyoid in order to cover up a strangulation death. Well folks, here it is (and it hasn't gone missing!!)...

Hmmm...

Here is a link with video footage of her hyoid in hand during an autopsy;

Fox news reports
 
Does anyone know if GC lived in South Massapequa some 25-30 years ago? Something popped into my mind the other night and if he did live there at some point, I knew OF him.
 
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