Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[mrspatton]

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/12/12/121211-news-long-island-serial-killer-1-4/

a photo of the police on an amphibious vehicle searching the marsh..it is not completely impenetrable except I believe where Shannon would have tried to get to the parkway from the marsh area. That would have been extremely difficult because of the thick brambles, etc.

 

[LINative13]

I did walk the entire known trail that SG took, I did not take the fictional trail from the road, to where her possessions were found, to where her remains were found because you can't. You couldn't access the marsh from the road there where this fictional trail would require, until LE plowed 2 entrances with heavy machinery.

The trail she did follow that morning is well known, from JB's house over to the top of hatch way where she was last seen by BB. The notion that she could even make it into the marsh from this area doesn't seem realistic to me because from what I was able to observe the hedge of thorned thicket along the road would be impenetrable without the right tools and hours of work.

The only access to the marsh I could see is from either doubling back once you reach the far east end of oak beach, or from the known access point in the backyard of 47 larboard ct., or from ocean parkway. There may be some other entrance from behind some of the other houses east on larboard ct. but I couldn't see any.

As for the amount of water in the salt marsh area, sure I could see puddles and we all know about the vector control ditches, but nothing that someone would drowned in, not without a hurricane driven tidal surge in my opinion.

Native, I'm a baymen and have been a surfer (body boarder, sponger, shark biscuit) since I was 8. I bet if you head into the marshy area with a crab net you could pull all sorts of really interesting things from the muddy bottoms of those vector control ditches..... wanna suit up? If we jump in and do the clam dance we will probably find lots of little bones...

The clam dance?? Ha I havent done that in a year or two. We used to pull those little abstards out by the bucket by the old frank and dicks. You bring the lemon drop kush, I will bring the summer ale. The hell with a crab net...how about a clam rake?

 

[Jenny9]

Hi Peter:

I enjoy your posts and I listened to you on the Websleuths show last night, but I am confused.

You are discussing Shannan Running from Mr. Coletti's and being found in the marsh, but you did not mention that you actually went to the scene of the "crime" and scouted out the terrain.

I wish you would go to Oak Beach and see how inpenetrable that marsh is, and the route that is alleged that Shannan took from Brewer's to Coletti's to (final place) Brennan's.

Id be keen to see your theory once you walked that route.

Thank you for being on the show last night.
TKM

yes you are correct.the ways the bushes are entangled its like vines growing sideways,so if she was running into the bushes from oak beach community it would be imossible you would not be able to do it ths why those big machines were brought in.now if she was running from ocean pkwy she would be ble to be found where she was.

 

[PickleChris]

What completely escapes me is - why was Mallia searching THREE or FOUR or FIVE MILES AWAY from the last location that Shannan was seen running towards? Why didnt the police search that area in December 2010 when they found the Gilgo 4? And I just dont understand WHY the police were searching the Gilgo area (if that's what it is designated as....) when they found (Was it Megan Waterman they found first?)

That area is literally FOUR or FIVE miles up the road on Ocean Parkway. WHY WERENT THE POLICE SEARCHING THAT MARSH WHERE SHANNAN WAS FOUND as diligently as they were the Gilgo Beach area?? off of Ocean Parkway.

It makes absolutely NO SENSE.

TKM.

They were doing a training exercise..Or at least that's what LE said to the press when they found #1 of the GB4. That quickly was changed a day or two later. They were officially searching for SG when they stumbled upon all these remains. You can paint your own picture about what they were doing over there, I will stick to a training exercise. They didn't seem to care about her the night she went missing in May and they want us to believe they were still searching 6 months later?

 

[Jenny9]

Oak Beach is not Hell town. As a former long time summer resident I can tell you its a lovely community with part time and full time residents who are very close and enjoy the peace and beauty of the local landscape. We never even locked our doors. As far as animals, foxes, skunks, raccoons, opossums and of course lots of birds. The water does come in and flood the area that Shannon Gilbert was found in, and its also very very dense. To me it makes sense she could have gotten lost and ended up tragically dying in the marsh of causes unrelated to the LISK. Only time will tell of course, but to believe the OB community is some vast cult like community conspiring to keep the truth from being revealed is absolute rubbish!

can you explain what very very dense means?are you talking about the bushes?have you ever tried to run thru them when you lived there?

 

[Seaslug44]

I have no time to educate about the differences between a freshwater wetland and a saltwater tidal marsh. All I can say is that anyone from the area would clearly know that the wetlands where SG was found is not a saltwater tidal marsh.

This is what a saltwater tidal marsh looks like;

And this is what the freshwater wetlands where SG was found looks like;

Here is another view of a saltwater tidal marsh;

And here is one more photo of the freshwater wetlands next to Oak Beach;

If you cannot see the difference then there is not much more I can do to prove it to you other than offering a taste of the water.

 

[Jenny9]

Just remember thought that the night she went missing, May 1, the tides were at their highest of the month. Also keep in mind she was a slender small woman, and had already been running and scared for some time before entering the marshes. I would think this would contribute to extreme fatigue before she even entered the marsh. It was also dark and she wouldn't have been able to see if she had stepped into a deep heavy mud patch.

have to disagee on the darkness.it was 5 15 am that she alledgedly left jb house and got to gc house i would say between phone calls and running around and if witnesses claim they saw her running then it was not dark out t all,at 5 20 am on may 1 2012 it was beaking daylite,im up everyday at this time and its not dark.the sun might not be up but the sky is light.also if it was dark how could people see her?i dont recall many lights in the community and i have been there several times visiting friends.imo

 

[mrspatton]

I believe sunrise was closer to 6 am that day. There are some lights of course where the houses/residents, but once she entered the marsh there are no lights. I know how dawn can have some light but even so it was just sunrise, not a lot of light and I still believe that it didn't help the situation if Shannon was in the marsh and lost. So maybe not dark, but certainly not complete bright daylight.

 

[Jenny9]

mrspatton,we are not attacking you and i dont believe the marshes really matter if ther salt or fresh water.what we are getting to was how much "ground water was actually there on may 1st.sg mother very clearly stated she would not run towards water,she was afraid of it.so being that she ran thru these very dense thicket and may have drowned in water which you are saying could have been 2 ft or more dont you think she would have saw it?and not ran towards it?and also how long ago did you move from the community?i know some are long time residents but alot are also newer.so maybe you dont know who the newer neighbors are?imo

 

[mrspatton]

You only need to watch numerous crime shows to see parents who can't believe their children did something, from meeting someone, to marrying someone, to taking drugs, to many many things. Shannon wasn't thinking rationally and was scared, and from reports (not yet substantiated I think from the autopsy?) high. None of this points to her acting in a "normal" manner. And she actually wasn't running towards the water but away from it, ie the ocean, and heading towards the parkway. However, marshes can be tricky, she very well could of started in and then stepped into water without seeing it. Plus two feet of water may not have deterred her like the ocean may have. But think quicksand regarding the marsh, which you don't know is quicksand until you are in it. I'm really not sure what you are asking about newer neighbors but it seems you are saying, again, there are some evil types there. I suppose that is possible anywhere and I am certainly not saying JB had no culpability in the events up to her death or is a "nice" guy so to speak. Actually it does matter about the freshwater vs salt as to how marshes change with the tides on a daily basis. Oak beach has many summer residents that come and go, as well as older full time residents. But overall its pretty tight and most people know each other. I've been away for a few years, but spent about ten years as a summer resident.

 

[LINative13]

Mrs Patton,
Do you know "fluke"? Have you heard his theoires as to who killed SG, GB4 and the other bodies along ocean parkway? Interesting stuff...you should check it out.

How closely have you been following this case? I think you could be an asset to the board but do not take everything so personally. For the most part; everyone on this board is very knowledgable about the case, and the minor details. It has taken alot of time and effort to try and put everyhting together.

I know not everyone at Oak Beach eats babies and there are some very nice people there. I know a few people that own houses there. Lets also not pretend JB, SG, and MP were at JB's house to figure out logistics to get food to staving kids in north korea. They were doing drugs and SG was a prostitute.

LINative13

 

[mrspatton]

I don't now fluke but I'll look at the posts. Thank you.

Thanks too for your support. I'll try to roll with the punches. lol

 

[truthspider]

The clam dance?? Ha I havent done that in a year or two. We used to pull those little abstards out by the bucket by the old frank and dicks. You bring the lemon drop kush, I will bring the summer ale. The hell with a crab net...how about a clam rake?

clam rake is a good idea. maybe one fitted with a screen to catch the small stuff. I will grab my 5 ml booties and gloves, full suit and beach plum bush costume (I don't think we are supposed to be back there). But don't worry I have a plan if LE shows up, I'll flail and roll around in the reeds screaming "help me I'm drowning!" and you can say you stopped to save me, if that doesn't work, i'll pay for your summons. It will be worth it, with a little luck and adventure we find the long-lost fortune of One-Eyed Willie.

LDK... check, and summer ale and white IPA both are available in cans now...oh and please leave your turkey loads at home, if we encounter an evil-doers I'll get on all fours behind him and you push him backwards.

 

[truthspider]

Truth, you surprise me. Based on what I have written you can tell I suffer serious bias, and most likely an open racist?

Besides being a first generation immigrant to this country, I live in a very racially mixed neighborhood(not gated) My neighbors to the left are a Buddhist family from Sri Lanka, The neighbor to the right is from Trinidad.

My first wife was a WASP, speaking of ethnic diversity.

I have received police commendation for intervening in a racially based beating of a South Asian youth who was accosted by a group of eight skin-heads. I appeared in court and testified against the skin-heads.

I did not link Chinese with the sex trade. If MP was assisting a Japanese, Russian, Turk, or any other race I would have made the same inference.


Regarding the Trayvon case, I have not been following it too closely. but appears to me that the shooter was trigger happy, and used very poor judgement.

I might suggest everybody be careful with your analysis, deductive abilities and the conclusions you come too,especially about fellow sleuthers,

as Freud said 'Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar'

MOO

Sorry about that Windsor, it's just a spider bite and you should recover just fine, but if the left side of your face goes numb you should see a doctor, in fact there is one just down the road on the left (47 larboard ct.), he will treat you.

I am of mixed race so I have mixed feelings, I am also racist, specifically I am a "mixed-breed supremacist" which is why this case has touched a nerve. I also have a disorder in which from time to time I think innocent people are the devil.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Sorry about that Windsor, it's just a spider bite and you should recover just fine, but if the left side of your face goes numb you should see a doctor, in fact there is one just down the road on the left (47 larboard ct.), he will treat you.

I am of mixed race so I have mixed feelings, I am also racist, specifically I am a "mixed-breed supremacist" which is why this case has touched a nerve. I also have a disorder in which from time to time I think innocent people are the devil.

allegedly - the good doc is in need of a serious sunny vacation.
so he has chosen to become a snowbird and spend his winter in sunny florida - so - Windsor will be out of luck if looking for any doctor to help her at 47 larboard court.

TKM

:seeya::seeya::seeya::seeya::seeya::seeya:

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

arty:
arty:

Welcome to the Websleuths site regarding the LISK case.

As you can see, people are very passionate about it, but are really very nice.

Enjoy.

TKM

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

 

[LINative13]

No turkey load.....check.
5 Mils boots and gloves.....check.
Clam Rake......check.
LDK/misc. ales.....check.
IPOD docking station (we are going to need some music).....check.
Gatorades and the like.....check.
Plastic bags for treasure.....check.

If we pull a back muscle or cut ourselves by accident down there, there is a doctor over at OB that wrties perscriptions for pain medicine and a CVS 15 minutes away. And his wife writes them when he is out of town.

What else?

 

[PickleChris]

Wear a life vest. Rumor has it the area is deep water.

 

[LINative13]

Im bringing my scuba equipment and some safety lines because the current RIPS when the tide is incoming/outgoing. Also something to hang my clothes on. I also hear the marsh wont let you in unless you take your pants and shirt off and run through the thorn bushes.