Shannan Gilbert ...what if?

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Puggle said:
All questions aside.....if her family hadn't made such a ruckus...LISK??? who???...Shannan who?...and unfortunately her remains being found would have barely made a mention in any paper

Native as you have made this thread...I am interested if you can share any information on what OP is like during the months of June and July - your impressions of heightened activity. Who is out and about during these months in that area. What is normal to see in the area during these months. Are there markets-special events- outsiders with a reason to be there during these months.....what is the general vibe in the area in these months. Are locals engaged in any particular events during these months - clean ups??....roadside cleaning...anything you can think of special to that area in those months???
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I'll look up some of my early posts and bump them up for you. Let me know if its what you're looking for.
 
LikeAHunter said:
Well of course the differences would always outweigh the similarities! ;-) But if the bodies were discovered the way LInative13 posed, then I'd definitely assume that she was one victim who managed to get away.
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As always, my problem with that logic hinges on the fact that, in my mind, LISK is the person who murdered the GB4, and not necessarily the person responsible for these other murders. LISK took a strange kind of pride in the bodies of his 4 known victims, imo. All four known victims were a particular physical type, all were strangled (not dismembered, and not mutilated), all were left intact, all were wrapped in burlap, and all were placed within close proximity to one another. I would bet ANYTHING that there was some kind of physical marker near these bodies that allowed him to pick out exactly where the bodies were. I think he watched this site often and got off on the power he felt knowing the bodies were there. Now, all this is just my opinion, of course, but I've lived with this case for years now, and I can't un-know what I think I know at this point. Perhaps that's a huge mistake on my part, but it is what it is.

So...from that perspective (right or wrong), I don't think LISK chops up his victims. I don't think he kills just to kill. There's a process involved, imo. Pick them out, court them, kill them, place them in a trophy case, revisit, and admire the end result of all his work. Shannan doesn't fit that pattern...she's too messy (for lack of a better word). If we remove what we know about Brewer and Pak from the night Shannan disappeared, all we really have is the body of a woman who was an online escort, found partially clothed, in a marshy area off Ocean Parkway. The only way I could see Shannan being a victim of LISK is if I consider the fact that something must have gone terribly wrong for him with this particular victim. But, in this particular mental game LIN has set up for us, I know nothing about the 911 call, Brewer, Pak, or CPH. I have nothing to tie Shannan to the four known victims of LISK. Hell, I don't even have a cause of death to link them. So, no...I wouldn't automatically assume Shannan was the work of LISK.

All just my opinion. (And not very well written, I'm afraid, because I'm still working on my first cup of coffee.) ;)
 
Mountain_Kat said:
As always, my problem with that logic hinges on the fact that, in my mind, LISK is the person who murdered the GB4, and not necessarily the person responsible for these other murders. LISK took a strange kind of pride in the bodies of his 4 known victims, imo. All four known victims were a particular physical type, all were strangled (not dismembered, and not mutilated), all were left intact, all were wrapped in burlap, and all were placed within close proximity to one another. I would bet ANYTHING that there was some kind of physical marker near these bodies that allowed him to pick out exactly where the bodies were. I think he watched this site often and got off on the power he felt knowing the bodies were there. Now, all this is just my opinion, of course, but I've lived with this case for years now, and I can't un-know what I think I know at this point. Perhaps that's a huge mistake on my part, but it is what it is.

So...from that perspective (right or wrong), I don't think LISK chops up his victims. I don't think he kills just to kill. There's a process involved, imo. Pick them out, court them, kill them, place them in a trophy case, revisit, and admire the end result of all his work. Shannan doesn't fit that pattern...she's too messy (for lack of a better word). If we remove what we know about Brewer and Pak from the night Shannan disappeared, all we really have is the body of a woman who was an online escort, found partially clothed, in a marshy area off Ocean Parkway. The only way I could see Shannan being a victim of LISK is if I consider the fact that something must have gone terribly wrong for him with this particular victim. But, in this particular mental game LIN has set up for us, I know nothing about the 911 call, Brewer, Pak, or CPH. I have nothing to tie Shannan to the four known victims of LISK. Hell, I don't even have a cause of death to link them. So, no...I wouldn't automatically assume Shannan was the work of LISK.

All just my opinion. (And not very well written, I'm afraid, because I'm still working on my first cup of coffee.) ;)
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I agree 90% about LISK not being responsible for the other bodies. I'm leaving that other 10% just in case. LOL But yes, I cling to the notion of organized and disorganized killers. The killer of the GB4 is most definitely an organized killer. And THAT I am 100% certain of!

Regarding Shannon's cause of death, I recall from Lost Girls that there was evidence of strangulation in Shannon's autopsy. I don't recall, though, if Kolker saw the actual ME report.

But Native poses a very interesting question. Because if we didn't know what we know, I would abso-effing-lutely think she was the 5th victim and the one that got away.
 
More thoughts and opinions on LINative's hypothetical:
The working meme over the years here has been that GB4 = LISK. In fact, the discovery of the GB4 gave rise to the "mythical", so-called, LISK. That much is pretty firm. Any other victims purported to be connected to LISK is pure speculation. Even trying to connect SG to the LISK is speculation. SG and the GB4 are coincidently connected by proximity. If SG had not "brought down the heat", in real time, when one or more(?) residents of OB called 911, and thus brought attention to her situation, would the GB4 ever have been discovered? To date, the mystery of Officer Malia and Blue, accidentally happening upon what would turn out to be the GB4, hangs in the air. Of course, "we" assume it was related to the search for Shannan. It would have seemed much more appropriate for Officer Malia and Blue to have taken a look in the swamp adjoining OB. Wouldn't that have made more sense?
So here we are, with LiNatives hypothetical. They couldn't find Shannan even knowing exactly where she went missing. Yet they find the GB4 some distance away. If I remember correctly some amount of time went by, between the night of Shannans 24 minute call, and LE returning to OB to further investigate? As others here have stated, it was the persistence of SG's family that wouldn't let this go cold. Good for them.
It is hard to hypothesize what this story would be if Shannan had not "raised a ruckus" that night. I tend to think that hers would be a forever unsolved missing persons case. What would MP's actions have been if no resident of OB had called police? I suspect that he knew damn well that Shannans 24minute call was not going to bring police to OB. She couldn't tell them where she was. Would he have left, to return later with Shannans "boyfriend"? Would the conference call between MP, JB and Shannans "boyfriend" have taken place? Wouldn't someone love to have a recording of THAT conversation?
Sorry, I am obviously thinking out loud here. I guess what I am getting at is that without the actions of a very unique young lady that night, her body would never have been found, and neither would the GB4. At least not in the way that it did turn out. If the only body discovered off of OB were Shannans, there probably wouldn't be any, however loose, tie-ins to any other bodies. Likewise had only one, or two, or three of the GB4 been discovered. As someone here recently mentioned, the first discovery of the body by Blue was thought for sure to be Shannan. I guess we are where we are today, because it wasn't!!

IMHO
 
Gerontion said:
I guess what I am getting at is that without the actions of a very unique young lady that night, her body would never have been found, and neither would the GB4. At least not in the way that it did turn out. If the only body discovered off of OB were Shannans, there probably wouldn't be any, however loose, tie-ins to any other bodies. Likewise had only one, or two, or three of the GB4 been discovered. As someone here recently mentioned, the first discovery of the body by Blue was thought for sure to be Shannan. I guess we are where we are today, because it wasn't!!
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But isn't that the point, really? :) That, in the end, it's one hell of a coincidence that an NYC-based prostitute goes missing in the very same area that 4 dead NYC-based prstitutes are found?

As I posted somewhere else, I'm playing with the idea that perhaps the LISK dumped the bodies there specifically when the hunt for Shannon was on because there was already so much going on in and around Oak Beach. He could have done it either to keep the focus off him, to frame JB, to taunt the police, or maybe for another reason entirely. But that would explain the coincidence.

That said, while (at this point) I don't think SG is a LISK victim, there's nothing that's been presented that allows me to rule out the possibility completely.
 
LikeAHunter said:
I agree 90% about LISK not being responsible for the other bodies. I'm leaving that other 10% just in case. LOL But yes, I cling to the notion of organized and disorganized killers. The killer of the GB4 is most definitely an organized killer. And THAT I am 100% certain of!

Regarding Shannon's cause of death, I recall from Lost Girls that there was evidence of strangulation in Shannon's autopsy. I don't recall, though, if Kolker saw the actual ME report.

But Native poses a very interesting question. Because if we didn't know what we know, I would abso-effing-lutely think she was the 5th victim and the one that got away.
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BBM

We are in absolute agreement on this point, Hunter. We also agree, in some measure, that in this mental exercise we would both think that SG was the one who got away. You would be 100% behind that thought (or your cautious 90%, lol), I guess...I would merely consider it an option...but we both agree that the idea is worthy of consideration. Where we differ is that I refuse to assume ANYTHING. We do not have a cause of death in Shannan's case. There was talk here of the hyoid bone missing, and the assumption that this was evidence that LISK took it to hide strangulation. It isn't evidence of anything to me. The hyoid bone is very small, and very easily broken. It's not uncommon to find that missing. And Shannan had previously suffered a broken jaw, so who knows how that might have played into the picture. There's also animal predation to consider. In short, it's a HUGE leap to say that this missing bone was evidence of strangulation, imo. Cause of death? You tell me. Better yet, tell the medical examiner, because he doesn't know either. ;)
 
Wouldn't a missing bone mean that the killer had to wait it out for mother nature to do her thing and then risk going back to the dump site? That's what I tend to think, which also leads me to have the opinion that the killer didn't take the bone.

Did anybody here follow the Caylee Anthony case? Wasn't her hyoid bone missing too? Or am I imagining that?

ETA: No, I wasn't imagining it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/06/19/caylee-anthony-nearly-complete-skeleton-found-with-remains-autopsy-shows/
 
This is not a question of SG helped the other bodies get discovered. SG was a great woman, the best ever, helped law enforcement, I hope my daughter grows up to be as brave as her, yada yada yada....is that better? Jeez.

Now if they were all just discovered (no story about Pak, JB, CPH, MG anything). Just saying if SG was just found while GB4 search was happeneing.....what would you think?
 
LINative13 said:
Now if they were all just discovered (no story about Pak, JB, CPH, MG anything). Just saying if SG was just found while GB4 search was happeneing.....what would you think?
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That she was a victim who got away.
 
LINative13 said:
This is not a question of SG helped the other bodies get discovered. SG was a great woman, the best ever, helped law enforcement, I hope my daughter grows up to be as brave as her, yada yada yada....is that better? Jeez.

Now if they were all just discovered (no story about Pak, JB, CPH, MG anything). Just saying if SG was just found while GB4 search was happeneing.....what would you think?
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The lack of burlap, the fact that she wasn't dumped right next to the parkway, or somewhere safe from an unwanted set of eyes during the dumping would make me wonder. The similarities between the five would stand out more though.
 
Yesterday I got to thinking that maybe this flooding might turn up another dumpsite. Then I wondered...would we see burlap? If the bodies dated to a period prior to the discovery of the GB4, I think yes. If the bodies dated to period after them...I'm not so sure. So I started to ask myself just how important is this burlap to him? And the only answer I could come up with is that maybe, just maybe, it was important to him for this particular dumpsite, but not of major importance to him overall. I always operated under the assumption that the reason he used burlap in the GB4 dumpsite was because it blends in to the terrain, and yet, was something he could pick out visually because he knew what to look for. I think he lives (or lived) VERY close to this site, or travels Ocean Parkway regularly. If he does have another dumpsite, and it's in different terrain, would he use burlap? If this dumpsite isn't somewhere close to where he lives, would he bother to conceal them at all?

Just a few random thoughts while I'm drinking my coffee. Probably means nothing.
 
It is important to note that at the time that SG ran screaming through the gated community ONLY TWO of GB4 were missing. MW and ALC...both with connections to the suspected killer to the motel in Hauppauge... disappeared after SG made the 911 call. MW disappears, in June, about 6 weeks after SG. ALC is beaten and left by the side of the road some time in either May, June or July. And, just a few weeks before she is abducted, she was enticed by, the person we assume was the abductor, to the same motel where MW disappeared from. Did ALC know that MW was missing from that motel? Was there buzz among the community? Did SG, hear something/plans? Was someone trying to get her to participate in same aspect of retaliation against other prostitutes or their pimps? Or did JB procure SG for someone else who they either picked up or dropped off in that 15 minute drive? Will we ever know?

Neither MW nor ALC took their phones outside of their usual working environment when they came into contact with their abductor.
 
I don't understand why LE can't speak with the "concierge" to identify lisk, he's obviously a repeat customer of the motel and probably has been using it for many many years.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Yesterday I got to thinking that maybe this flooding might turn up another dumpsite. Then I wondered...would we see burlap? If the bodies dated to a period prior to the discovery of the GB4, I think yes. If the bodies dated to period after them...I'm not so sure. So I started to ask myself just how important is this burlap to him? And the only answer I could come up with is that maybe, just maybe, it was important to him for this particular dumpsite, but not of major importance to him overall. I always operated under the assumption that the reason he used burlap in the GB4 dumpsite was because it blends in to the terrain, and yet, was something he could pick out visually because he knew what to look for. I think he lives (or lived) VERY close to this site, or travels Ocean Parkway regularly. If he does have another dumpsite, and it's in different terrain, would he use burlap? If this dumpsite isn't somewhere close to where he lives, would he bother to conceal them at all?

Just a few random thoughts while I'm drinking my coffee. Probably means nothing.
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If any bodies were dumped on the side of Sunrise highway they might turn up. Alot of those back streets were flooded I would actually be surprised if a body didnt float up they seem to be everywhere in that area.

http://www.longisland.com/news/01-1...-copiague-parking-lot-police-investigate.html
 
LindsayLohan6 said:
If you read the forgotten thread, the 90's seemed to turn up alot of badly decomposed in wooded areas at the end of quiet residential streets.
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I know, Lohan, bodies turn up all over Long Island. I think maybe I should have been more specific in terms of what I would be looking for? Isolated area, 2 or more bodies, cod strangulation, physical similarities, that type of thing.
 
What if the guy featured in this video or the youtube comment poster are LISK?

[video=youtube;SqmreS0pxw4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqmreS0pxw4[/video]

I assume that the comment on the video is aimed at the guy featured in the video, maybe he knows something about the guy being interviewed that we do not?
 
Youtube comment on the video listed above from youtuber zakznorf12:


"lol no way satan that doesnt look like you"



Posters channel contains only one upload:

[video=youtube;10pIS3_WDQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pIS3_WDQA[/video]

"YOU GUYS ARE DEAD IN THE WATER"
 
The person that found the body in the water featured in the video is called John Genua and lives fairly close to the dumpsite:


https://www.facebook.com/john.genua


Works at:


http://www.rotaxmetals.net/ based in brooklyn new york.


"Whether you are a manufacturer looking to fabricate, an architectural designer seeking the perfect copper or brass part for your furniture design, or a distributor, Rotax Metals has what you are looking for."



Working in this role he would have access to burlap sacks:



Burlap bags are used to Ship and store metal parts and hardware.


https://www.uline.com/BL_227/Burlap-Bags




Previously worked at Fed ex ground again having easy access to burlap bags.


Appears to be fascinated with horror movies and has his own band called "brothers grim"


Plus a youtube comment on the video where he finds a body in the water says "he doesn't look like satan"?


Worth checking this guy out....
 
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