She cut her own throat

[beesy]

According to that poly I was talking about...he did stab or cut Darlie. What he used I have no idea. I never said I had proof. I thought we were here spouting out theories. I just gave one of mine. I didn't ask you to believe it. I only stated that I believe it. And if you are going to get into specifics...the whole second attack is a theory. We have nothing to conclusively prove that it actually happened at all. It was just a theory a few of us were kicking around.

Suppose he cut Darlie accidently while trying to get the knife away from her? That would still be "cutting" Darlie. So Darin at first tries to stop it, maybe while she's stabbing Damon during the first attack. When Darlie gets injured and when he realizes both boys are dead(they think), it went from there. Past the point of no return. She could say he attacked her, which if he was trying to stop her, techinally he did. Devil woman
The 2nd Attack Theory was presented by the prosecution. There is evidence for it. You done good girly

 

[beesy]

The clean up is hard to figure. It obviously was something started and abandoned (on the floor). The sink area clean up must have been to get rid of Darlie's blood. She just didn't want them to know that is where she cut her throat. It makes sense she would cut it there. Being a neatnik like she was, the sink would be the natural place to do something like that so as not to make a mess before she was ready for it to be made.

I think the clean up on the floor was another matter. Maybe Devon's death was not intentional. Let's say she snapped or that she and Darin were arguing and that it got so heated with one of them waving the knife around that one of them stabbed Devon or hurt him in the heat of the moment. Maybe the first plan was to take his body somewhere else and clean up the blood she tracked into the kitchen. She or they tried to clean it and it soon became apparent that it was a futile effort so they abandoned that idea and came up with the intruder story. That would explain the poor planning.

Or maybe the killings were planned and the initial plan had to be abandoned and what we see now is just some last minute thing thrown together. Like maybe the crime scene just got away from them...more blood than they estimated, less control than they figured, etc, etc.

Like maybe he had been kidnapped? Maybe they were doing it for both of them, or trying to. I think she planned to kill both of them the entire time. So she might have been injured somehow or they realized they couldn't fake the kidnapping, so she became a victim too.

 

[deanws]

Suppose he cut Darlie accidently while trying to get the knife away from her? That would still be "cutting" Darlie. So Darin at first tries to stop it, maybe while she's stabbing Damon during the first attack. When Darlie gets injured and when he realizes both boys are dead(they think), it went from there. Past the point of no return. She could say he attacked her, which if he was trying to stop her, techinally he did. Devil woman
The 2nd Attack Theory was presented by the prosecution. There is evidence for it. You done good girly

I know. I read that a while ago, but I don't think the proof is absolutely positive for that. I think the prosecution was trying to put it all together..like we are. So, while I believe it happened that way....others disagree. If what you are posing is true... how the heck did Darin get from being so mad at her...possibly hurting her...then helping her stage the act all in a matter of minutes? That is why that theory bugs me. And, if we go along with the second attack theory...who did it? I think the second stabbing took place when she was on the phone...when she was trying to get Darin's attention that he wasn't quite dead yet. UGGG...help me out here!!! It doesn't all fit together! That is why I can't seem to put it all together.

 

[beesy]

I know. I read that a while ago, but I don't think the proof is absolutely positive for that. I think the prosecution was trying to put it all together..like we are. So, while I believe it happened that way....others disagree. If what you are posing is true... how the heck did Darin get from being so mad at her...possibly hurting her...then helping her stage the act all in a matter of minutes? That is why that theory bugs me. And, if we go along with the second attack theory...who did it? I think the second stabbing took place when she was on the phone...when she was trying to get Darin's attention that he wasn't quite dead yet. UGGG...help me out here!!! It doesn't all fit together! That is why I can't seem to put it all together.

Maybe not MAD, but more like stop what the beep are doing? Then if he cut her by accident, what's Darlie going to say? Darin attacked me and killed the boys. That's what Darlie would say. So there's that sick bond again. I don't know beesy brain all burnt up

 

[deanws]

Maybe not MAD, but more like stop what the beep are doing? Then if he cut her by accident, what's Darlie going to say? Darin attacked me and killed the boys. That's what Darlie would say. So there's that sick bond again. I don't know beesy brain all burnt up [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_3_103.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_3_103.gif[/url]

I know! Mine is too. :doh:

 

[JimPence]

:waitasec: As a novelist, I have to be all of the characters in my stories, including the bad guys. And I often have to imagine how I would commit certain crimes. Thus, I've been applying my somewhat morbid imagination to the question of what it might look like if I tried to cut my own throat without killing myself, and then what it would look like if I was an intruder who was sitting on top of Darlie and trying to cut her throat. (Okay, so I'm sick. What can I say?)

First, if I was trying to cut my own throat, I'd probably use my left hand to hold the knife. Since most people are right-handed, I'd want it to look like a right-hander did the deed.

Now, with the butcher knife in my left hand I bring the blade across my throat, taking care not to cut too deeply.

What I notice is that unless I deliberately hold my left elbow up high and force a straight cut, the blade naturally takes a somewhat diagonal path from my upper right neck area down toward the left upper pecs.

If you look at the photo of Darlie's throat, that's exactly the path of her scar.

Now, to the second part of the experiment. I'm going to take Darlie at her word that she awoke and felt the pressure of someone on top of her. For the purposes of the experiment, I'm assuming that this is when her throat was cut.

I hold the knife in my right hand, as we assume the attacker would, and then slash, not trying to force a particular path. This time, the most natural path of the scar is from the lower right to the upper left. The exact opposite of Darlie's scar.

However, if I am on top of Darlie, attacking her. I don't think I would slash her throat at all. I would stab straight down, just as Devon and Damon were stabbed. It's much more efficient.

If I'm going to slash another person's throat, I would do it from behind, a la the OJ case. Better penetration, better control of the victim, and little chance of failure.

I think she cut her own throat.

That's the theory. OK WS'ers. Shoot it down!

Jim

 

[beesy]

:waitasec: As a novelist, I have to be all of the characters in my stories, including the bad guys. And I often have to imagine how I would commit certain crimes. Thus, I've been applying my somewhat morbid imagination to the question of what it might look like if I tried to cut my own throat without killing myself, and then what it would look like if I was an intruder who was sitting on top of Darlie and trying to cut her throat. (Okay, so I'm sick. What can I say?)

First, if I was trying to cut my own throat, I'd probably use my left hand to hold the knife. Since most people are right-handed, I'd want it to look like a right-hander did the deed.

Now, with the butcher knife in my left hand I bring the blade across my throat, taking care not to cut too deeply.

What I notice is that unless I deliberately hold my left elbow up high and force a straight cut, the blade naturally takes a somewhat diagonal path from my upper right neck area down toward the left upper pecs.

If you look at the photo of Darlie's throat, that's exactly the path of her scar.

Now, to the second part of the experiment. I'm going to take Darlie at her word that she awoke and felt the pressure of someone on top of her. For the purposes of the experiment, I'm assuming that this is when her throat was cut.

I hold the knife in my right hand, as we assume the attacker would, and then slash, not trying to force a particular path. This time, the most natural path of the scar is from the lower right to the upper left. The exact opposite of Darlie's scar.

However, if I am on top of Darlie, attacking her. I don't think I would slash her throat at all. I would stab straight down, just as Devon and Damon were stabbed. It's much more efficient.

If I'm going to slash another person's throat, I would do it from behind, a la the OJ case. Better penetration, better control of the victim, and little chance of failure.

I think she cut her own throat.

That's the theory. OK WS'ers. Shoot it down!

Jim

No, no, no, shoot it down I will not! Darlie said she was laying on her right side when awakened, sometimes she was "frightening" with the blur of a man, sometimes he was standing at the end of the couch and sometimes already heading for the kitchen. Now this blur decides to poke around at her throat and shoulder. To do that, he'd have to twist his arm around. If she flipped over to struggle with him, there are all those yummy organs to hit. He didn't contort himself to slit the boys' necks, he stabbed them as they lay. So that tells us...what? She cut her own throat. I think she recoiled and the knife bounced back down. Maybe that's why you see that little skip in the scar.
OJ, like you said, did the usual ear-to-ear slice. From behind, pulling Nicole's head back and exposing her throat. But Darlie's intruder was not in a position to do that and would not have tried it. Simply stab, stab, stab, what you can hit. If she had really struggled with this blur, she probably would have had stab wounds, not boo-boos, but stab wounds on her torso, arms, thighs, her left side, her back, her *advertiser censored*! So: conclusion? She cut her own throat. I think she was somehow injured during the attacks on the boys. I don't know. I can't figure it all out. So she then had to become a victim too. You can tell something went awry in there somewhere, the clean-up was stopped. Its possible Darin cut her arm accidently or on purpose. Suppose he was trying to yank the knife away from her when he first saw what was going on? And there is no way she could have slept through being beaten with a blunt object. She had no head injury. She was alert and oriented, yet somehow she sustained such trauma she can't remember anything about the attack. Sheese
Now, let me ask you something. As an author, would you write Darlie's story as she tells it in a novel? It's not belieavable even in make believe land, is it?

 

[Goody]

See my posts #57 and #58. D&D were told to sit or stand near the glass doors before the medics arrived. I'm not sure if the story about them whispering together is true or not. I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Note that the paramedic said Darlie was not crying or yelling at that point. I don't think anyone said she was crying that night at all. She doesn't sound like it on the 911 tape.

 

[Goody]

:waitasec: As a novelist, I have to be all of the characters in my stories, including the bad guys. And I often have to imagine how I would commit certain crimes. Thus, I've been applying my somewhat morbid imagination to the question of what it might look like if I tried to cut my own throat without killing myself, and then what it would look like if I was an intruder who was sitting on top of Darlie and trying to cut her throat. (Okay, so I'm sick. What can I say?)

First, if I was trying to cut my own throat, I'd probably use my left hand to hold the knife. Since most people are right-handed, I'd want it to look like a right-hander did the deed.

Now, with the butcher knife in my left hand I bring the blade across my throat, taking care not to cut too deeply.

What I notice is that unless I deliberately hold my left elbow up high and force a straight cut, the blade naturally takes a somewhat diagonal path from my upper right neck area down toward the left upper pecs.

If you look at the photo of Darlie's throat, that's exactly the path of her scar.

Now, to the second part of the experiment. I'm going to take Darlie at her word that she awoke and felt the pressure of someone on top of her. For the purposes of the experiment, I'm assuming that this is when her throat was cut.

I hold the knife in my right hand, as we assume the attacker would, and then slash, not trying to force a particular path. This time, the most natural path of the scar is from the lower right to the upper left. The exact opposite of Darlie's scar.

However, if I am on top of Darlie, attacking her. I don't think I would slash her throat at all. I would stab straight down, just as Devon and Damon were stabbed. It's much more efficient.

If I'm going to slash another person's throat, I would do it from behind, a la the OJ case. Better penetration, better control of the victim, and little chance of failure.

I think she cut her own throat.

That's the theory. OK WS'ers. Shoot it down!

Jim

Well, bravo, Jim. I did similar experiments myself many moons ago and came to the same conclusion. And just think....you don't have those big melons between the knife and your neck. hahahahahahah. It definitely would not be easy, if even possible for someone to cut her neck while she was laying down and struggling, all things considered in that rather limited space on the couch. I agree that the neck wound is self inflicted. Not so sure about the arm wound though.

 

[txsvicki]

But why? On purpose or accidentally?

This sounds really morbid, but I will say it since I believe that Darlie planned the murders. Darlie had cooked home made chicken soup for dinner. Could she have practiced stabbing a whole chicken and knew some what ahead of time how much pressure to apply to get thru cartilage or in the case of her throat to not hit an artery?

 

[Goody]

This sounds really morbid, but I will say it since I believe that Darlie planned the murders. Darlie had cooked home made chicken soup for dinner. Could she have practiced stabbing a whole chicken and knew some what ahead of time how much pressure to apply to get thru cartilage or in the case of her throat to not hit an artery?

I don't think she needed to practice. I suspect that knife was so sharp, it wouldn't take much to push it through a young boy. She outweighed them probably three or four times. Not much of chance for 30 or 40 pounds against 110/20.

 

[deanws]

This sounds really morbid, but I will say it since I believe that Darlie planned the murders. Darlie had cooked home made chicken soup for dinner. Could she have practiced stabbing a whole chicken and knew some what ahead of time how much pressure to apply to get thru cartilage or in the case of her throat to not hit an artery?

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think she needed to practice. I suspect that knife was so sharp, it wouldn't take much to push it through a young boy. She outweighed them probably three or four times. Not much of chance for 30 or 40 pounds against 110/20.

I was only wondering because I also think the whole thing was preplanned and to plunge a knife 5 inches into a human wouldn't be too easy if hitting cartilage and rib bones. One of the boy's stab wounds did hit cartilage and not go nearly as deep as the 5" deep stab wound.

 

[JimPence]

Now, let me ask you something. As an author, would you write Darlie's story as she tells it in a novel? It's not belieavable even in make believe land, is it?

Interesting you should bring that up, Beesy.

In good fiction, everything must have a logical and reasonable explanation. A good plot is nothing more than a sequence of cause-effect events that move in increasing intensity toward a climax. And everything must have an explanation. That's why you get frustrated with a book or movie that doesn't tie up all the loose ends.

The mistake most beginning fiction writers make is in taking something from "real life" and fictionalizing it. I'll tell them that their story isn't believable and they'll say, "But it really happened that way!" The problem is that in real life, crazy and senseless things happen. Loose ends are rarely tied up and often things don't have a logical explanation. That makes for lousy fiction.

Applying this to Darlie's stories, on the one hand it actually earns a few points in her favor. I actually would expect there to be a certain degree of inconsistency in her stories. If her every account of the events matched up perfectly, then that would immediately signal to me that the story was contrived.

Where I have problems with Darlie's stories is not that there are inconsistencies, but the kind of inconsistencies that we find. For example, the so called attacker. Her various versions of how, when, where, and how many attackers there were are not the kinds of inconsistencies that come from a foggy memory. Instead, it reminds me of what I do when I'm rewriting my novels.

My books change (often drastically) from the rough draft to the final version. People who were minor characters might become major characters. Other characters might be written out entirely. Events may be dropped or added. Good guys might become bad guys, and vice versa. In fact, one of the most difficult parts of getting the manuscript ready for publication is going through and catching all of the inconsistencies that have been introduced during the various rewrites.

My wife is my biggest helper in this area. By the final stages of the story process, I'm too close to the events to catch my own inconsistencies. So my wife does my final "proofing" and it's amazing what she found with my latest book. I'm just glad she caught the errors and not a reader or reviewer.

Darlie's stories reflect a "manuscript" that has been repeatedly rewritten, but has remained "unproofed". Unfortunately for her, she didn't have a good editor to polish her stories!

Jim

 

[Goody]

I was only wondering because I also think the whole thing was preplanned and to plunge a knife 5 inches into a human wouldn't be too easy if hitting cartilage and rib bones. One of the boy's stab wounds did hit cartilage and not go nearly as deep as the 5" deep stab wound.

Yes, but look at how deep a young boy's torso is at that age. The knife blade is probably longer than their torso is deep, esp for healthy, active boys who are on the slender size as Devon was. Even Damon, though a bit chubbier, was on the slim side. Plus rib bones were more like cartilage than bone at that age. Not as easy as slicing through a ham maybe but not nearly as cumbersome as stabbing a fully grown adult, no matter how skinny. I have never heard anyone even hint at a practice session on a chicken or turkey, etc....that is pretty chilling. I guess anything is possible but I think I would have to hear it from her before I would latch onto that one. You are welcome to your speculations though.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I read a story the other day where this kid stabbed his mother 100 times - all over her body, head, etc. I would think that in the "heat of the moment," it really doesn't matter what body parts are in the way. They stab just as easily as any other part.

 

[Goody]

Interesting you should bring that up, Beesy.

In good fiction, everything must have a logical and reasonable explanation. A good plot is nothing more than a sequence of cause-effect events that move in increasing intensity toward a climax. And everything must have an explanation. That's why you get frustrated with a book or movie that doesn't tie up all the loose ends.

The mistake most beginning fiction writers make is in taking something from "real life" and fictionalizing it. I'll tell them that their story isn't believable and they'll say, "But it really happened that way!" The problem is that in real life, crazy and senseless things happen. Loose ends are rarely tied up and often things don't have a logical explanation. That makes for lousy fiction.

Applying this to Darlie's stories, on the one hand it actually earns a few points in her favor. I actually would expect there to be a certain degree of inconsistency in her stories. If her every account of the events matched up perfectly, then that would immediately signal to me that the story was contrived.

Where I have problems with Darlie's stories is not that there are inconsistencies, but the kind of inconsistencies that we find. For example, the so called attacker. Her various versions of how, when, where, and how many attackers there were are not the kinds of inconsistencies that come from a foggy memory. Instead, it reminds me of what I do when I'm rewriting my novels.

My books change (often drastically) from the rough draft to the final version. People who were minor characters might become major characters. Other characters might be written out entirely. Events may be dropped or added. Good guys might become bad guys, and vice versa. In fact, one of the most difficult parts of getting the manuscript ready for publication is going through and catching all of the inconsistencies that have been introduced during the various rewrites.

My wife is my biggest helper in this area. By the final stages of the story process, I'm too close to the events to catch my own inconsistencies. So my wife does my final "proofing" and it's amazing what she found with my latest book. I'm just glad she caught the errors and not a reader or reviewer.

Darlie's stories reflect a "manuscript" that has been repeatedly rewritten, but has remained "unproofed". Unfortunately for her, she didn't have a good editor to polish her stories!

Jim

That is exactly why I say she is in permanent edit mode.

 

[Goody]

I read a story the other day where this kid stabbed his mother 100 times - all over her body, head, etc. I would think that in the "heat of the moment," it really doesn't matter what body parts are in the way. They stab just as easily as any other part.

Agreed if they are in some frenzied state and out of control. I don't see lack of control in these killings. These wounds were well targeted on Devon as if the stabber was methodical in approach. On Damon the stabber seemed to be less focused or not as sure where to place the wounds effectively. I think some time passed between these two killings, that one was not done immediately after the other. The problem is that Darin can't be tied to the sock and that messes up the timelime if you believe it was not a plant but a mistake. I am pretty certain it was not a plant just as the FBI profiler claimed. And I don't think Darlie took it down the alley. If she had, I suspect that it would have never been found. It was Darin's mistake and that is why he was so bent out of shape that he wasn't told about it right away.

I am not sure I agree that any body part stabs as easily as any other. The back is full of bone and difficult to penetrate deeply. However, if one is stabbing one's chest and stomach area, esp on a young child, just about any area will, as you say, stab as easily as any other.

 

[beesy]

I think she attacked the boys, did her little attempt to stage the scene and then sliced the neck, realized Devon was trying to crawl to the door and did the second attack.

You mean Damon
But why did the clean up stop? She said "screw the footprints, too many" right?
Something went wrong before she cut her throat I think, but what? Or was the whole thing just messier and more difficult than she thought it'd be? The footprints which were still visible, whose blood was that? You know we've mentioned how most kids are snatched from the house. I think Darin was in bed, as he said. Did Darlie start thinking that the money problems and lack of freedom were the boys' fault and just start stabbing? Darin found her and they decided maybe they could stage a kidnapping? They quickly realized that wouldn't work. How could they get the kids out of the house? Is that why the cleanup stopped? So then Darlie had to be a victim. Nobody would believe Darin could survive an attack.
We've got his big area where we can't figure out the mechanics. The cut screen and sock could have been done when they thought they could stage a kidnapping. To us, we know they could never get away with that, but maybe they didn't at first. Something tells me she had not intended to be a victim. So then Darin cuts her arm and the hesitation mark could come from her screaming at him to stop. Fine, fine, then Darlie you cut your throat then. I've always thought it was weird she didn't look in the mirror when she cut it. I think she didn't cut it in the bathroom because it was too pretty and it was small. Maybe Darin held a mirror for her?
Wow, I've really babbled

 

[beesy]

That is exactly why I say she is in permanent edit mode.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy