Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

[ShurlT]

OK, I quit. Fred's MILITARY HISTORY IS RECORDED ON NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS. I STARTED AT 4:45 am, PROBABLY BEFORE AND IT'S 6:00 am NOW. I HAVE 34 PAGES FROM ADVANCED INFORMATION ON HIM. I HAVE THINGS TO DO AND I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE ALL DAY.

 

[Rhett]

Richard, or anyone would it do any good to do a letter writing campaign to the governor of the state where Coffey is held or the governor of Maryland to allow Coffey to be questioned about the Lyon girls abduction? It would be so great to bring their bodies home to be buried and to maybe know what happened to them. It is so frustrating when different states won't work together or when the police don't want to reopen a case.

 

[ShurlT]

thefirstman...I've found some of you comments very interesting and was glad to see some intelligent discussion finally going on here for a change. I have to agree from experience there was some kind of apathy by police in those years.
My youngest daughter ran away a couple of times around age 14/15. At first I felt responsible/guilty until the night she ran away while I had spent the whole day...a Saturday...getting my very elderly grandmother who had fallen and broken her hip transferred from Suburban Hospital to my home so I could care for her until she recovered. This activity was used to cover her escape and I didn't realize she was gone until early evening. I spent an interesting, intense evening searching, phoning and looking all over the area for her until I happened to catch her and another girl crossing Rockville Pike right in front of me. The short of the long was I knew she had no reason to run away this time and I was angry. I took the other girl to her mother and told her not to let her daughter hang around with my daughter and that I had caught them running away.

The first time she ran away I reported her missing to the same police station you mentioned which was the juvenile unit up on Randolph Rd. The officer I spoke to presented the appearance of taking information but not eager to do anything and began explaining there was a wait first before they could put her into the missing bracket or something like that and for me to just wait and almost like on the QT nearly whispered in my ear "just wait, someone will probably contact you." This was in relation to his saying these kids were almost aways run aways and they'd be staying with someone and sooner or later I'd probably get a call from her or someone she was staying with or someone who knew where she was. I was left with no help whatsoever and this wasn't good enough for me. I've taken care of kids since I was 9 years old & this is not acceptable. I realized I didn't know who she hung around with, what their names were or where they lived so I began covering our neighborhood from Rockville Pike to the Blanford Apts near Monroe St to the Americana apt building where her best friend lived.
Somehow, I ran into a kid on Monroe st who told me my daughter was seen with a girl who live in a brick house down the block from where we were standing so I went and knocked on the door and a young girl answered that I had never met before or since. She denied she knew anything about where my daughter was. I already expected the kids to protect her and lie about what they knew...IF...she had run away so I just told her..."when you see her tell her I'm looking for her and for her to call me at home any time of day or night." I made it sound like I knew she knew where my daughter was and I wasn't going to take no for an answer but I wasn't going to stand there and argue or call her a lier. I was walking on eggs & I knew it. It was important to get my daughter home safely...not tick people off.
She was gone a week & 1/2 or 2 weeks, I don't recall anymore. She had continured to go to school she told me and was staying in the Blanford apartments with adults who let her call me but were listening on another phone to make sure she didn't tell me where she was. (Harboring a runaway was illegal.) I went to the school & her class room to try to convince her to come home. A few days later she did. I never heard from the police up there but I called & let them know she was home.

Soooo, the 2nd time she ran away her father & I sat at the kitchen table nearly 2 hours trying to find out why she ran away, what was going on...knowing she had no reason but not pointing that out to her at that time. The object was not to have a family argument that went nowhere but to find out what was going on with her and try to find a solution. She continued to refuse to tell me anything and in fact was carefully trying to make me feel guilty. It wasn't working this time. I finally got quietly angry and said that's it, we're going to Wheaton Police station. We did. An older officer talked to her like a Dutch father about the idea of a found puppy that is housed, fed and given a place to sleep...how much it costs parents per year to raise a child and how every time the puppy was fed it bit the hand of the feeder and how eventually the feeder of the dog would decide it couldn't take care of the puppy anymore. Much of what he said was good and a lot of it corresponded to what I had said in the kitchen. I had begged, I had pleaded I had tried to reason, I had stayed as reasonable as I possible could the whole time I had talked with her before going up there. She had stood her ground and offered nothing to help me understand. Officers at the police stations talked us into attending a group they call, "PACT," Parents and Children Together. I was coming to the end of my rope with everything and must have begun shutting down based on what happened next.
These meetings were held right there at the same police station. We were place in a room and told to wait. We sat and we sat and we sat and we sat and we waited. I don't know how long we waited but I finally began to wonder if they had forgotten us and go back & forth to the door wondering if I should try to find someone to see what was going on. I looked out the door, nobody was coming. I sat back down. Looked again. Sat back down. This was getting ridiculous. We had sat there the whole time not talking because all the talking had already been done. I was looking for this so called help they had told me about. Where was it?
Suddenly, I realized I could hear voices through the wall. I couldn't make out everything that was being said but I did hear someone say, "They're not talking," and I looked at the wall and realized we were being watched through a two way mirror in a police station. I just couldn't believe it. This fiasco had gone on since around 5 or 6 o'clock. It was now around 11 or 11:30 PM. I was done. I found somebody and asked where the rest room was. There just was no place to turn anymore and these people were just like the rest. They weren't doing anything either & we were just hanging. I needed to think and I didn't know what to do anymore and was considering running away myself. I left the bathroom and walked out the front door, sat on the step and just stayed there until one of the female officers came and found me. Now, she wanted to talk and all I could say was, "It's too late." I had gone completely empty and blank. There wasn't anything to talk about anymore.
I did say a few things but nothing mattered anymore about trying to solve the problem and we went home. Some time later my daughter and I had a conversation about this little episode and she admitted to me she had no reason to run away that night, she was helping the other girl run away because the other girl supposedly was having trouble at home. They were making plans to start hitch hiking to California when I picked them up on the street. If I hadn't found them when I did it's a good possibility they would never have been found again and maybe not alive.
My fortune cookie when my husband and I got married said, "Best place to look for helping hand at end of right arm."

 

[Thrasher]

Thanks, Richard, for stepping in again and providing perspective.

A crime of opportunity is certainly what it seems to be. People want to invest so much significance into events - whether it is the death of JFK, Princess Diana, Amelia Earhart, or the latest murdered rap artist - that there has to be a grand conspiracy befitting the significance of their idol. But common sense requires us to start with the simplest explanation, and only complicate it as needed. Sometimes history turns on an unfortunate series of events with no central planning.

How would TRM "research" these girls? How would he know they would walk to Wheaton Plaza that day, or what route they would take? Would he spend weeks parked in front of the Lyon house? How are they different from hundreds of other blond girls hanging out at Wheaton Plaza? I could be wrong, but I don't think research suggests that sexual predators against children typically spend weeks plotting against a particular individual, unless it is a neighbor or someone they are in regular contact with anyway.



Yes, you could stake them out in a car at the end of Faulkner Place (or one of the other roads ending next to the plaza) and wait for kids to emerge and walk down the grass and toward home. Perhaps this happened. But could the same person who did this be the one who a few hours earlier was sitting in the middle of the plaza with a tape recorder, working some scheme to get kids (the same kids, in this case) to talk? Is it plausible that he would have asked them, "and how do you walk home, and when will you be leaving?" I have it on good authority that the girls were not idiots.

Theory #2 has little to commend it except two witnesses who claim to have seen them walking that route during that day. But consider - it was not a public story until Friday the 28th. The earliest Mr. Mann heard the story was at least four days after the time he says he waved to them - a wave he presumably would not have thought about until he heard of the disappearance. The description of the girls would match hundreds of kids in that area (including my own two sisters). The girls had walked that route regularly, perhaps even on a day shortly preceding March 25. In the month after their disappearance, literally hundreds of people in the area were sure they had seen the girls - not to mention all those people calling from Arizona to say they saw them in the studio audience at a taping of "Truth or Consequences." A combination of wishful thinking, imagination, and a desire to be part of the excitement will lead people to report these things. It is easer to believe the witnesses on the Drumm route were mistaken then to believe the alternative.

Everyone wanted to see them - it is human nature. Even Mary Lyon said she found herself looking back every time she passed blond girls on the street. So did I. I did a double take at every beige Ford station wagon, even when I was in another state.

I don't think the runaway theories are even worth considering. The facts (not the theories, imagination, or anecdotal stories) leave two real possibilities:

#1. TRM decided to troll Wheaton Plaza on a beautiful day, Easter break from school, with many school-age kids around. He ran a successful scam on the girls. Even though they initially left him (as described by witnesses), they met or encountered him later in the Wheaton Plaza area (probably the parking lot), and at least either willingly got into his vehicle, or didn't put up too much resistance. (Perhaps he grabbed one and scared the other, but in any case this could happen in the Wheaton Plaza parking lot without attracting attention. People might think it was a family matter. I saw more bizarre behavior ignored in that parking lot in my days.) This differs greatly from the Faulker/Drumm/McComas residential neighborhood, which then had many small children, stay-at-home mothers, and retirees, who are much more likely to see and report a disturbance.

#2. They indeed exchanged waves with Mr. Mann at Devin Place as they were walking home. Shortly after, someone pulled alongside them and persuaded them to get in. This could be TRM, but I struggle to find a scenario where he would talk to them with a tape recorder, separate from them in the plaza (as the witnesses describe), then know their route home, know how to get there by car, and time his drive so he intercepted them in the Drumm/McComas area. At which point they recognize the man with the tape recorder, and for some reason find it convincing to get in his car there, not questioning how he found them or why he pursued them. If #2 is the truth, I find it more probable that this was someone other than TRM.

In both scenarios, remember that the girls were a few days from their 11th and 13th birthdays. They were bright, healthy, and normal size for their ages. How does one man force both of them into a car and secure them without a major commotion?

It has been argued that if it was not the TRM, why didn't he come forward? Probably because he was a criminal sexual deviant himself and wanted nothing to do with the police either. Even harder to believe is the idea of multiple actors - how many sexual predators work in teams? For a while there was the rather dubious "white slaver" theory floating about, which might involve a conspiracy, but if you are recruiting sex slaves for export, would you work Wheaton Plaza? Sadly, there are many places in this country where you can abduct children very easily, with little risk, and little police or public interest. Wheaton in 1975 was not one of them.

 

[Thrasher]

Rhett - you could petition the governor of North Carolina, but the reality is that right now, Coffey has no incentive to talk and he cannot be compelled to do anything. Montgomery County has nothing on him; just interesting circumstantial evidence. Richard can clarify this, but I think MCPS talked to Coffey multiple times - but he did not volunteer anything, and they have no evidence to confront him with. He is in for life in NC, and several states have warrants out that would try him if he were ever paroled. My hope is that, if he gives up on getting parole, and Maryland gives immunity, he might tell what he knows (or at least where bodies or other dispositive evidence could be found); he would do this out of what, for lack of a better term, we will call "mercy," if we can imagine such a quality in someone like Coffey. For Kathy Beatty too, although at least there they know what happened. John and Mary Lyon are now 68 years old the chance of resolving this in their lifetime grows slimmer.

 

[thefirstman]

Thanks, Richard, for stepping in again and providing perspective.

A crime of opportunity is certainly what it seems to be. People want to invest so much significance into events - whether it is the death of JFK, Princess Diana, Amelia Earhart, or the latest murdered rap artist - that there has to be a grand conspiracy befitting the significance of their idol. But common sense requires us to start with the simplest explanation, and only complicate it as needed. Sometimes history turns on an unfortunate series of events with no central planning.

How would TRM "research" these girls? How would he know they would walk to Wheaton Plaza that day, or what route they would take? Would he spend weeks parked in front of the Lyon house? How are they different from hundreds of other blond girls hanging out at Wheaton Plaza? I could be wrong, but I don't think research suggests that sexual predators against children typically spend weeks plotting against a particular individual, unless it is a neighbor or someone they are in regular contact with anyway.



Yes, you could stake them out in a car at the end of Faulkner Place (or one of the other roads ending next to the plaza) and wait for kids to emerge and walk down the grass and toward home. Perhaps this happened. But could the same person who did this be the one who a few hours earlier was sitting in the middle of the plaza with a tape recorder, working some scheme to get kids (the same kids, in this case) to talk? Is it plausible that he would have asked them, "and how do you walk home, and when will you be leaving?" I have it on good authority that the girls were not idiots.

Theory #2 has little to commend it except two witnesses who claim to have seen them walking that route during that day. But consider - it was not a public story until Friday the 28th. The earliest Mr. Mann heard the story was at least four days after the time he says he waved to them - a wave he presumably would not have thought about until he heard of the disappearance. The description of the girls would match hundreds of kids in that area (including my own two sisters). The girls had walked that route regularly, perhaps even on a day shortly preceding March 25. In the month after their disappearance, literally hundreds of people in the area were sure they had seen the girls - not to mention all those people calling from Arizona to say they saw them in the studio audience at a taping of "Truth or Consequences." A combination of wishful thinking, imagination, and a desire to be part of the excitement will lead people to report these things. It is easer to believe the witnesses on the Drumm route were mistaken then to believe the alternative.

Everyone wanted to see them - it is human nature. Even Mary Lyon said she found herself looking back every time she passed blond girls on the street. So did I. I did a double take at every beige Ford station wagon, even when I was in another state.

I don't think the runaway theories are even worth considering. The facts (not the theories, imagination, or anecdotal stories) leave two real possibilities:

#1. TRM decided to troll Wheaton Plaza on a beautiful day, Easter break from school, with many school-age kids around. He ran a successful scam on the girls. Even though they initially left him (as described by witnesses), they met or encountered him later in the Wheaton Plaza area (probably the parking lot), and at least either willingly got into his vehicle, or didn't put up too much resistance. (Perhaps he grabbed one and scared the other, but in any case this could happen in the Wheaton Plaza parking lot without attracting attention. People might think it was a family matter. I saw more bizarre behavior ignored in that parking lot in my days.) This differs greatly from the Faulker/Drumm/McComas residential neighborhood, which then had many small children, stay-at-home mothers, and retirees, who are much more likely to see and report a disturbance.

#2. They indeed exchanged waves with Mr. Mann at Devin Place as they were walking home. Shortly after, someone pulled alongside them and persuaded them to get in. This could be TRM, but I struggle to find a scenario where he would talk to them with a tape recorder, separate from them in the plaza (as the witnesses describe), then know their route home, know how to get there by car, and time his drive so he intercepted them in the Drumm/McComas area. At which point they recognize the man with the tape recorder, and for some reason find it convincing to get in his car there, not questioning how he found them or why he pursued them. If #2 is the truth, I find it more probable that this was someone other than TRM.

In both scenarios, remember that the girls were a few days from their 11th and 13th birthdays. They were bright, healthy, and normal size for their ages. How does one man force both of them into a car and secure them without a major commotion?

It has been argued that if it was not the TRM, why didn't he come forward? Probably because he was a criminal sexual deviant himself and wanted nothing to do with the police either. Even harder to believe is the idea of multiple actors - how many sexual predators work in teams? For a while there was the rather dubious "white slaver" theory floating about, which might involve a conspiracy, but if you are recruiting sex slaves for export, would you work Wheaton Plaza? Sadly, there are many places in this country where you can abduct children very easily, with little risk, and little police or public interest. Wheaton in 1975 was not one of them.

For me I think it is worth being devil's advocate:

I actually agree with Thrasher that being picked up in the parking lot is the most likely scenario. That said, he still would have to know where in the parking lot they might show up and that was probably done by spying the mall parking lot waiting for non-accompanied youths to enter and then predicting that they will return the same way they came.

Here's devil's advocate. I believe that it is possible that TRM was looking for a last name. He then goes to his car looks them up in the phone book, looks up their address on a map and goes to their street.

If this is the case he could easily have been staging a lie from the get go. "I need a recording of young people. My wife and son were visiting her sister in the area and got in a terrible car accident a few days ago. She's in a coma at Holy Cross. The Dr.s say the voices help may help her live".

He then drives to their street and waits. When they show up he says, "Oh my this is amazing! My wife's sister is Jenny Jones (a neighbor's home obtained from a mailbox) Do you guys know Jenny?" He initiates more small talk and then says By the way the recording did not come out, can you help me some more?" "Here just sit in the car and say a couple of things".

 

[ShurlT]

Rhett...I talked to the superintendent of Pender Prison sometime in 2007 about a similar idea to the one you have where someone else wanted to see if they would grant permission to visit inmates.
The deal is the inmate has to put in a permission request themself for an ok for a visitor and the superintendent cannot allow anyone in to see an inmate without that inmates permission and request including police, newspaper journalists, etc. My understanding is this has to do with their legal rights. I'm sure the governor could be written to and asked but whether he can over ride this law is questionable.
Those of us who have followed this case since 2004 have hoped that either Charlotte, NC or Bristol, VA would persue their cases for the death of Neely Smith, NC and Travis Shane King, VA that they have recently said they have new evidence and could probably extradite Coffey to these states. Our hope has been that maybe MCP could make a deal with Coffey not to give him the death penalty if he would say whether he took the girls and what he did with them. Dective Mandano/Mundano (sp?) told me they were in contact with Bristol immediately after they heard what Bristol announced. We've waited and nothing has come of it. The only problem with this is...both Bristol and Charlotte made these announcements right after local TV stations and newspapers brought up something about the cases and/or were just reminding people of the anniversary of their abuctions and murders. Personally, I think they were covering their back door.
The other possible scenario we've hoped for is if MCP would look for posible DNA in the Kathy Lynn Beatty case, since there were things found at the scene that might match Coffey and have him extradited for that case, then, offer him a deal for the Lyon case. I talked with Dective Mandano about this, too. The superintendent at Pender told me by law they have the DNA of every inmate and other police agencies can get access to their database. I assumed Dective Mandano already know this when I talked with him about Kathy Beatty's case and therefore did not think it necessary to point it out to him. Maybe I failed to do the right thing in that respect because I don't know if every state requires DNA be taken from their inmates or if it's just certain states.
Maybe what we should write about is to request Charlotte and Bristol do what they said they'd do.

 

[forthelost]

http://www.forthelost.org/lyon.html

 

[thefirstman]

That the MCP have a suspect in Fred Coffey Jr sitting in prison for crimes very similar to what was most likely perpetrated on the Lyon sisters.

I imagine that the family does not want the publicity of making particulars of the case known again.

That said I am convinced that if the public were asked to help in this case now, that someone somewhere holds the key to this case.

 

[Thrasher]

It has now been 33 years, four months - a third of a century - and I think the chances of any witness coming forward are remote; even if one did, the chance that the information would be reliable and lead to a solution is even more remote. Many of the original investigators and figures close to the case are deceased.

I think the best chance is a confession - perhaps a deathbed one - or someone stumbling upon forensic evidence somewhere.

As for Coffey, when he came to the attention of MCPS in 1987, there was great publicity. His picture was on the front page of the Washington Post. There was every opportunity for a witness to recall and share a memory or encounter with him. Apparently no one did. 21 years later, the result isn't likely to be any more promising.

I can assure you the Lyon family does not want publicity - but they would be willing to put up with it for a constructive purpose. But attention mostly just results in more hoaxes, lunatic theories, and painful memories.

 

[thefirstman]

Much of what you said seems right. I understand fully that the family does not want any more pain then they must live with in this tragedy. I respect their need for privacy. Without substantial motivation I would hope that authorities and others refrain from working against the family's wishes.

That said things do change, people die, shadows are lifted, secrets revealed. Different angles bring different light.

This case has such a haunting effect on the residents of wheaton, kensington, montgomery county, the state of Maryland. Most everyone I know that grew up here born 1967 or earlier remembers this like it was a huge punch in the stomach. And it did not go away.

Who else was at the Wheaton Plaza that day? Who else saw TRM at other locations? Who ran the hotel Coffey stayed at. Coffey had relatives in VA. What about their neighbors? Can the sketch be hypothetically put into a computer simulation that helps modernize the visual? What about Coffey's ex-wives? What about their places of residents? What about people who knew him in the Navy? What about other Vitro employees?

The beast gets to breathe but his victims did not.

That injustice pains me greatly!

All of this is simply my way of praying for the family to have as much peace and relief in their lives as possible.

 

[Thrasher]

Thanks for the prayers. I feel the pain. I see John and Mary Lyon fairly often, and they are always so positive, kind and generous. John's courage and sense of humor are amazing. Sadly, people who don't know him have mistaken his positive approach to life as not caring too deeply. This is a tragic misunderstanding.

A lot of silly and useless stuff is said about the case, but if any of this can ultimately help with the case, it is certainly worth it. When the thread first appeared a few years ago, people came forward then with memories of TRM or Wheaton Plaza that day. I don't know how reliable any of that is, but its worth looking at. Thanks for helping to keep the story alive.

 

[thefirstman]

I appreciate your personal connection to the family and therefore the case.

The very real and personal aspect of it is easily lost in this relatively impersonal forum.

I have read through this forum a couple of times and I have read others related to this nightmare of a moment in time.

A tragedy like this creates feelings in most everybody who hears of it or encounters the story in any way. Most of us struggle to contain the feelings that arise in the process.

In this way the family is seemingly infinitely vulnerable as they themselves are likely to stir feelings in people for simply being who they are. Then they are likely faced with encounters that can be loaded.

I believe that maximally protecting them and the memory of their loss is priority one in this process.

All of that said their are four reasons for this forum to exist in my opinion: 1. To help people cope with the feelings of the tragedy. 2. The hope, no matter how remote, that the discussion will help people piece together enough to help resolve some part of the tragedy - bring justice - discover the girls fate. 3. It is a stunning reminder to all of us of the reality that people like Coffey do exist and prey on our loved ones. 4. And to face the reality that for the most part there is very little justice in this world. Lets face it, as I write this the Wiesenthal center has some of its top people in Chile/Argentina tracking down 94 year old Austrian Nazi physician Aribert Heim (may his name be blighted from memory) or better known as Dr. Death. This guy was the top physician at Mathausan death camp and castrated inmates with no anesthesia and injected people with gasoline into their hearts. The world can be a very very dark place.

I appreciate what you say about the Lyon family and their courage. It is a testimony to the spirit of their daughters that they are who they are!

 

[Thrasher]

As it happens, I just got back from Europe and concentration camp/Holocaust sites. The world can indeed be a dark place.

The vulnerability of the Lyons, which you mention, is what I think always struck me as the greatest thing to deal with. They had to live at the mercy of people from the beginning -hoax phone callers, people just driving slowly in front of their house - through it all, John continued to work in the public eye. He still works, at 68 years of age, with the Montgomery County Victims Assistance Program, where he started as a volunteer in 1992 after WMAL fired him. He has to talk about his own experiences there often. He still performs music publicly, and through all this knows that any person he looks at could be the perpetrator. He still has to face the occasional person who gives him that "Oh my God, you're those people who..." look.

Few things would make me happier than to see this solved. Maybe someone with the missing piece will post a message here someday.

 

[maconrich]

This is my first post in this thread, but it's one I've been reading with interest, frustration and sadness. One thing has stuck in my mind about the TRM: if I'm remembering correctly, someone came forward and admitted to being the person seen at the other mall (not Wheaton), and that made me wonder if the Wheaton TRM may have also seen this other person - perhaps making him think it would be a good way to lure girls? Meaning there could have been (at least) two men doing the same thing in a relatively close time-frame: the one that came forward and the one who was seen talking to the Lyon sisters. I doubt that even if this would be true it would matter much or help at all...but it's something I wanted to put out there, so to speak... The other thing is re Coffey. Since Bristol, VA and Bristol, TN are almost the same location (and Bristol, TN was extremely remote until fairly recently), I'm wondering if anyone knows of any missing children in that part of TN that might connect. (Or for that matter any unidentified remains from that area) My thoughts and prayers go out to the Lyon family...

 

[Thrasher]

The number of TRMs has always been a question, and I think this has been discussed in this forum a couple years back. I am confused myself. I don't think anyone can say with confidence that the person who came forward is or is not the Wheaton Plaza person. Of course, we don't know definitely that the Wheaton Plaza person is the culprit. All we know for certain is that (1) he was never seen again after March 25, 1975, and (2) no one ever came forward after March 25, 1975, to explain a bona fide reason for being at the Plaza on that day with a tape recorder. The person as described would seem to be much older than Coffey was then, but there is a vague resemblance.

Richard, who posts to this site regularly, has the best records on this and has spoken with MCPS about the TRM. He would be the best to answer these questions.

As for Coffey, by his own claim he has killed or molested more than 100 children. If this is anywhere close to being accurate, there is no reason Bristol could not have been one of his stops. He seems to have gotten around very quickly in the 1975-1985 period, and he is probably a reasonable suspect in hundreds of missing/murdered children cases.

 

[maconrich]

Hi Trasher -- TY for the reply and so sorry to have brought up something that's been discussed before. I'll go back to reading - there's so much information here. The fact so much time has passed with no resolution is just so frustrating (and most likely makes things more confusing for me since I've not followed the case that long). I hear you on Coffey, and as someone from NC it burns me up to realize he's being provided for by people like me (aka taxpayers) and yet isn't required to disclose any/all information about other crimes he's committed. But I do understand that's how the cj system works... Thanks again! ~Barbara~

 

[Kammym3]

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with the Lyon family? I'm actually related to them but have never met them. I have always heard about my cousins that got kidnapped and remember seeing one of them in People magazine I believe when I was young. I was born a few years after Katherine. My dad passed away this year, that's how I'm related to them, he and their dad were cousins and I would like to meet some of my relatives that I have never met. Thanks for any info you can give.

 

[Thrasher]

I sent you a private message on this--

 

[Richard]

The number of TRMs has always been a question, and I think this has been discussed in this forum a couple years back. I am confused myself. I don't think anyone can say with confidence that the person who came forward is or is not the Wheaton Plaza person. Of course, we don't know definitely that the Wheaton Plaza person is the culprit. All we know for certain is that (1) he was never seen again after March 25, 1975, and (2) no one ever came forward after March 25, 1975, to explain a bona fide reason for being at the Plaza on that day with a tape recorder. The person as described would seem to be much older than Coffey was then, but there is a vague resemblance.

Richard, who posts to this site regularly, has the best records on this and has spoken with MCPS about the TRM. He would be the best to answer these questions.

As for Coffey, by his own claim he has killed or molested more than 100 children. If this is anywhere close to being accurate, there is no reason Bristol could not have been one of his stops. He seems to have gotten around very quickly in the 1975-1985 period, and he is probably a reasonable suspect in hundreds of missing/murdered children cases.

You summarize the facts well regarding TRM. To clarify just a bit, the story of this enigmatic person being at Wheaton Plaza and speaking with the Lyon girls first broke in the press and on television about a week after they disappeared.

After hearing the initial reports of the Lyon Sisters' disappearance, a 14-year-old boy (whom the press called "Jimmy") told his parents that he had seen both girls on that Tuesday, 25 March 1975 at Wheaton Plaza. When he also told of seeing them speaking with a man in a brown suit who had a tape recorder and microphone, his parents took him to the Montgomery County Police Headquarters to tell his story to police investigators.

"Jimmy" was personally acquainted with both Sheila and Kate Lyon, as he lived within a block of them, and rode the same school bus as Sheila. So he recognized them at Wheaton Plaza that day, although he did not claim to have spoken with either one. His story of seeing them talking to the "Tape Recorder Man" was corroborated by another boy about his age who was with him that day at the mall. The other boy stated that he did not know what was being said by the girls, but "Jimmy" stated that he heard one question asked; "Are any of you into sports?"

"Jimmy" was at the station for at least two hours and during that time, he described the man (popularly referred to as the Tape Recorder Man or TRM in this forum) to Officer Daniel Morton, who drew the initial sketch. That sketch was dated 28 March 1975 (a Friday evening).

The Montgomery County Police did not immediately release the sketch and TRM story. First, for the next two days - Saturday and Sunday - they questioned employees at Wheaton Plaza as to whether or not they had ever seen such a man. They had no luck. Next, on Monday, they released the sketch and story to the news media. Most papers printed the sketch for the first time on Tuesday, 1 April, although TV stations may have shown it Monday Night.

In response to that press release, three employees at Wheaton Plaza called police to state that they had seen TRM the Saturday previous to the girls disappearance (22 March 1975).

Aproximately 15 other persons called to state that they saw a man fitting the description at two malls in neighboring Prince Georges County: Iverson Mall and adjacent Marlow Heights Shopping Center (they are essentially one very large mall joined together by parking lots.) These sightings reportedly took place on Saturday 15 March 1975.

At least one person reported seeing someone fitting TRM's description at Bowie shopping center (also in Prince Geroges County) on a date not reported by newspapers, but prior to the girls disappearance.

And another person reported that he saw a man in a suit with a tape recorder attempting to speak with children or adolescents on previous occasions at both Wheaton Plaza and at White Oak Shopping Center (in Montgomery County). When speaking of this with a neighbor, the neighbor stated that he had seen a similar man, also at Wheaton Plaza.

All of these sightings were prior to the girls' disappearance, and at no time afterward was such a person with a tape recorder seen. News coverage being what it was, anyone attempting such a scheme or even a hoax would have been reported immediately. The significant fact here is that TRM disappeared at the same time the Lyon girls did - even though almost a week passed before the story was made public.

Another significant fact is that with all of the reported sightings, police asked if there were any suggested changes to the origional TRM sketch. In almost all cases, there were no suggested changes by eyewitnesses. Only a few minor changes were made to the origional sketch by Officer Morton, and these were to the mouth and chin area. I believe that both sketches can be viewed side by side on the Doenetwork and NCMEC websites. Officer Morton simply modified his origional sketch and did not even change the origional date of 28 March when the new sketch was released.

News paper reports of the time mentioned that Police were questioning several men in the Prince Georges County area, but stated that none were considered suspects.

Many years later, I personally spoke with Montgomery County Cold Case investigators assigned to this case and I asked them about the many sightings of TRM. I was told that back in 1975, a man came forward to admit to being the TRM at Iverson Mall/Marlow Heights Shopping Center - BUT, he claimed that he was NOT the TRM at any of the Montgomery County sightings. He produced evidence that on the day and time of the Lyon sisters disappearance, he had been involved in a motor vehicle accident with a Government Vehicle. His story seemed to check out and he was let go. None of this was reported to the newspapers, however.

I do not have the name of that self confessed TRM Number 2, and I do not know if he was photographed, or put into any kind of line-up to be identified by the eyewitnesses who reported seeing a TRM at any of the shopping centers or malls. The officers stated to me that he was a family man and did not want his family embarressed by his rather strange behavior. And he probably did not want any reprisals or revenge coming his way, either.

Was TRM real? I think the evidence is pretty much overwhelming that he was a real person who was in the habit of using a tape recorder and microphone to attract children.

Was he the abductor of the Lyon Sisters? The fact that he and/or someone who looked exactly like him was seen doing this on a number of occasions PRIOR to the girls disappearance, and then not being seen again
IMMEDIATELY after their disappearance, supports a strong feeling or belief that he was responsible for the girls' disappearance.

Was there a "TRM Number 2" ? Possibly, but personally I doubt that very much. More likely the guy who "confessed" to this was a hoaxer as seen in so many of these cases. The fact that he had a solid alibi for his whereabouts on 25 March makes me suspect that he felt comfortable "getting into the act" by confessing. If the police felt he was telling the truth, why did they let the second TRM sketch stand? Wouldn't they suspect that the changes made were based on sightings of this "Other" TRM?

Another consideration as to why this guy might have been lying could be that he actually knew the real TRM and was trying to cover for him for some reason - perhaps trying to lead police AWAY from Prince Georges County. In 1982, there was a brief interest in Prince Georges County as a possible burial site of the Lyon Sisters when a convicted murderer named Mileski (see the thread on possible suspects) reportedly bragged to other inmates of his involvement in their disappearance.

It is important to keep discussion of TRM and discussion of the potential suspect Fred Howard Coffey, Jr. separate to an extant. It is possible that the two are one and the same person, but that has never been proven or admitted to by Coffey.

Fred Coffey has an extensive record of violence toward children, although his real record is likely much more extensive than what he has been convicted of in Virginia and North Carolina.