Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt7

[Melanie]

Isn't a notary supposed to watch the signatures go onto the documents? I mean, that's the whole point of notaries, to witness the signing of documents!

Yup - been a CA notary for 11 years. I refuse to sign any kind of document (especially house deeds, quit claims, power of atty's) without being signed in my presence. Trust me, I've PO'd a LOT of people by saying - go get new documents then come back and see me. I will never allow 2nd signatures on legal documents - they have to go get new sets. I swear I thought one guy was going to punch me out.

In my state it is illegal to notarize anything without WATCHING the signer sign it. You could lose your license and be liable legally.

My license recently expired, and due to the liability being placed so heavily on the notary, I doubt I will renew. Even ID's can be forged these days, and it would still be my fault.

However, there are different rules for each state, so I can only comment on what goes on in California. Here we also have to go thru a background check and get fingerprinted at the local police department (that's always a bit scary) - LOL.

Mel

 

[rockman]

Here is a good large picture of a straw bale tied.
http://earthandstraw.com/wp-content/uploads/strawbale.jpg
It takes about 8ft of bale twine for each tie.
So you can get about 16ft of bale twine from one bale.

Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?

 

[rockman]

Hi JBean! I was a notary here in Virginia back when I worked and I had to witness the person actually signing the document. It still works that way here to my knowledge.

That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Yeah, me neither - but I will say that it took a long time to get the taste out of my mouth:yuck: I think there's something to be said about the "power structure" in the Coleman clan and their affiliation with JMM. If JM has known CC since he was a boy, we can assume she's known BC & KC as well. It occurs to me that there's a distinct appetite for control in these boys. I don't know what KC does, but the rest of them are all in (were in) postions where they have an unusual amount of control over other people.

JM has this same unusual power to an immense degree. I don't know what kind of power DM exerts from behind the throne, but it's still behind the throne and that's got to rankle someone like CC who was probably brought up to think that it's wrong - the threats he was making had to come from somewhere in his brain!.

I don't know anything about their mom, but I can't help but wonder how she has been treated too. She looks a million miles away in every photo I've seen.

Heck yah! And CC's best friend too, the youth leader who doesn't like whiners, crybabies or something like that, he struck me as some kind of Drill Sargent for Jesus...:couch:

 

[Jack]

That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

Yes, MO law requires the notary to witness the signature. However, if you happen to know the notary and they are willing to give their stamp without witnessing... I've seen this done.

 

[JBean]

Yup - been a CA notary for 11 years. I refuse to sign any kind of document (especially house deeds, quit claims, power of atty's) without being signed in my presence. Trust me, I've PO'd a LOT of people by saying - go get new documents then come back and see me. I will never allow 2nd signatures on legal documents - they have to go get new sets. I swear I thought one guy was going to punch me out.

In my state it is illegal to notarize anything without WATCHING the signer sign it. You could lose your license and be liable legally.

My license recently expired, and due to the liability being placed so heavily on the notary, I doubt I will renew. Even ID's can be forged these days, and it would still be my fault.

However, there are different rules for each state, so I can only comment on what goes on in California. Here we also have to go thru a background check and get fingerprinted at the local police department (that's always a bit scary) - LOL.

Mel

Maybe it just depends on the type of document and whether it is an acknowledgement or a full jurat or affadavit. I am sure it can be a notarized acknowledgement without signing it front of the notary.

 

[Melanie]

Hi Brownie.:blowkiss: Not here in Cali. As long as the person says they signed it, that's all that is needed.

All deeds have to be signed in the presence of a notary:

• That the signer personally appeared before the notary public on the date indicated and in
the county indicated.
• That the signer signed the document in the presence of the notary public.
• That the notary public administered the oath or affirmation.*
• To the identity of the signer.

If someone just showed up and said yah, I signed it, we would have real estate fraud all over this country.

The completion of a certificate of acknowledgment that contains statements that the notary public knows to be false not only may cause the notary public to be liable for civil penalties and administrative action, but is also a criminal offense. The notary public who willfully states as true any material fact known to be false is subject to a civil penalty not exceeding $10,000. (Civil Code section 1189(a)(2))

However, there is 1 exception (which would not apply to trust deeds, or quit claim deeds, etc) and that is the simple acknowledgement.

Question:

Am I (notary) required to see the person sign the document at the time I perform the notarization?

Answer:

If you (notary) are preparing a certificate of acknowledgment, then “no.” The document can be executed before the person brings it to you for notarization. In an acknowledgment, the signer must personally appear before you (the notary) and acknowledge that he/she executed the document, not that they executed the document in your presence.

I'm rambling now, but Deed's must be signed before a Notary:

Signatures - The Grantor(s) must sign the deed before a notary
public. The Grantee does not get that portion of the property
belonging to any Grantor who does not sign. If the property is
community property, both spouses or domestic partners
must sign the deed.

If I'm not on base, I'd be happy to be corrected.

Best,

Mel

 

[Melanie]

Maybe it just depends on the type of document and whether it is an acknowledgement or a full jurat or affadavit. I am sure it can be a notarized acknowledgement without signing it front of the notary.

Correct, correct, correct. Acknowledgements can be signed in advance. But if we're talking real estate document - nope. Especially jurats. I've always erred on the side of caution though and have asked everyone to sign in front of me. I was always worried it would come back and bite me in the arss.

I'll have to look at the docs when they are released (it doesn't sound like the notary pages have been releasted yet).

:blowkiss:

Mel

 

[WestSideGal]

That is how I understand it works here in Arkansas. Also in Missouri if I am not mistaken.

In MO, they can present a photo ID or be personally known to the notary - as a notary, I have to check the box on which I accepted as ID. Of course, never for a close personal friend or family member. Here they just have to attest that they signed the document, doesn't have to be in front of you. Our log book is pretty thorough - you have to have the date and time you notarized, what document it was, when it was dated and the name, address, phone number and signature of the person (along with some other things). There have been subpoenas for these log books and I keep mine for just such reasons.

EDIT: Just to clarify - I was not notarizing a Deed of Trust - today they were acknowledgments.

 

[chestergal]

Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?

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http://www.bridoncordage.com

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http://www.bridoncordage.com/testimonials.html

 

[JBean]

In th murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks the murderers paid off a notary (2K I think) to notarize the signatures of the people that had been killed. She didn't realize they were murdered at that time. they told her if she talked they would harm her family. She ultimately came clean and of course it was very important to the prosecution. Horrible case.

 

[JBean]

Correct, correct, correct. Acknowledgements can be signed in advance. But if we're talking real estate document - nope. Especially jurats. I've always erred on the side of caution though and have asked everyone to sign in front of me. I was always worried it would come back and bite me in the arss.

I'll have to look at the docs when they are released (it doesn't sound like the notary pages have been releasted yet).

:blowkiss:

Mel

I totally agree.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

sex addiction????? I know we've discussed it before. Wonder if MM is the only one he was sexting with.... Yuck!

The whole sex addiction thing makes me think of Phil Markoff... It will be interesting to know everything that has been found on CC's computer, cell phones etc.

Markoff was at least posting as bi-sexual (don't know if more details have come out about that) if CC had any of those issues it sure would produce a lot of inner conflict considering his background.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature.

I'm not disagreeing with you, JBean :blowkiss:, but I was told many times I (ex-we) could not do that without Notary being in my (ex-our) presence. Perhaps it's a "thing" that is a preference for a Notary??? Hey, I live in a very small State. They still are dealing with an ex Mayor who has served time as a Felon and now has his own radio show.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

On Nancy they said he told his girlfriend he was getting a divorce.

What else is she going to say?

 

[Melanie]

In th murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks the murderers paid off a notary (2K I think) to notarize the signatures of the people that had been killed. She didn't realize they were murdered at that time. they told her if she talked they would harm her family. She ultimately came clean and of course it was very important to the prosecution. Horrible case.

Notaries are a special bunch and 99.5% of us are really honest -- I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Gives us all a bad name

I'm sure this notary doesn't have a license anymore, and paid quite a hefty fee. It's just not worth it - ever!

Mel

 

[TallCoolOne]

Thanks for the info and the picture. Being a "city boy", I am having trouble believing that the twine used to tie hay bales would be strong enough to strangle someone with. When I hear the term "twine" I think of thin rope that could break easily. I guess I am off base here, since the twine is strong enough to hold the hay bale together.

Can someone clarify /confirm?

Having been the one riding on the hay wagon whilst bailing hay and straw I can attest to the strength of the twine. The old bailers used only two stands to hold the bale together and hay is compacted in the process. It's tough stuff, we've used it for many other purposes on the farm. After a couple of years it will weather if left out in the elements and become frail, but otherwise it will hold strong.

 

[JBean]

Notaries are a special bunch and 99.5% of us are really honest -- I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Gives us all a bad name

I'm sure this notary doesn't have a license anymore, and paid quite a hefty fee. It's just not worth it - ever!

Mel

Oh my gosh I am real estate developer and notaries are part of my world LOL. I know that almost all notaries are honest. I think this poor gal had NO idea as to the severity of what she had done. In the final analysis I am sure she was happy she could help the prosecution convict these murderers.
RIP Tom and Jackie Hawks

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Originally Posted by JBean
No, you do not have to sign in front of a notary. You can prove who you are to the notary and confirm to them that you signed it and that is sufficient to notarize your signature.

It is the way it works here, too. They sign the log in front of the notary and the signatures must match.

A notary is not responsible if someone slips a fake ID on them. They can only go by what is provided and without DNA...they would never know unless they spot the ID as fake.

 

[Melanie]

Oh my gosh I am real estate developer and notaries are part of my world LOL. I know that almost all notaries are honest. I think this poor gal had NO idea as to the severity of what she had done. In the final analysis I am sure she was happy she could help the prosecution convict these murderers.
RIP Tom and Jackie Hawks

What shows she was a bbbbaaaadddd Notary was taking 2K to notarize the documents. Man, I didn't know the fees went up so high (I kid, I kid). In honesty, I feel sorry for her, as I'm sure she had no idea this involved deaths. I'm just praying the CC notary documents are legit. I'm sure the Notary will be called to present her book as well to compare with Sheri's real signature.

Best,

Melanie