SIDEBAR #57 - Travis Alexander forum

[Spellbound]

Hi all, brought my computer! I went to Dr. on ednsday. Hedid a lot , called me yesterday morning to get to the hospital
as my blood was very low, hemoglobin.checked me , did cat scan and gave me two pints of blood. C scean came back ok .my gastro man just cam this and is doing an enter(cant think of the word. ) esophageal (SP)this afternoon if ok I may get to go home.:seeya:

Hey there, Nore! That extra blood must have made you feel well enough to pop in for a bit. So good to see you here. I hope everything else goes well for you. Good luck, lovely lady.

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped with Ms. Arias

Section 9

What Did I Have on My Hands

L will discuss:

in Chap. 46 - assessment on "what I had ...from a evidentiary standpoint"

in Chap. 47- what he "believed (as opposed to what I believe now)" happened on June 4, 2008

in Chap. 48- he shares belief " 'What I believed the State would argue' "
======================================================

Chapter 46

So What Now?

L had "a ton of evidence....like handling 5 death penalty cases at once"

L states that most DP cases have 6 file boxes- the murderer's case- 30 boxes, hours of videos, audios

L gives "general idea of the reality that I saw before me in the fall of 2012":

-"...rather than being a 'former girlfriend' of Mr. Alexander.....Ms. Arias was still involved in a relationship with Mr. Alexander. At the time the two likely would have labeled thsis relationship a friendship...they sure acted like a couple....were having a sexual relationship..traveled together, use each other's cars...would talk or communicate in some fashion if not every day then darn close to it....What label would you place on this relationship?"

"..when I say they acted as a couple...I'm not saying that this was some sort of healthy loving relationship, far from it as sometimes they treated each other horribly." (pg. 258)

L saw relationship (in fall, 2013) as " clearly toxic"- sexual part- made it "more than a friendship" which "added to the toxicity"

L states that he thought their "connection ... was hard to put a label on....that evidence might make explaining this relationship even more difficult....the true relationship was really only something that the two of them know....could be true of any relationship, but the way I saw it, what was going on here was more than a matter of privacy..."

L states that most friends/loves ones know who you are seeing/"significant other"

"In contrast, to those in Mr. Alexander's world the two were friends at most and at the least Ms. Arias was a 'scary stalker girlfriend'. Those who thought Ms. Arias was the crazy ex-girlfriend [or just friends] thought this because of what Mr. Alexander had told them.

in 2012, L states- TA and murderer didn't tell anyone "full extent of their relationship. However, it seemed to me that at least one of them took active steps to divert attention from the true nature of their relationship" (pg. 259)

with evidence, L had to "consider"- murderer was "crazy ex-girlfriend"- wouldn't leave TA alone- by slashing tires- sending "former girlfriend Lisa a cryptic email"

but- Det. Flores (on 48 Hours interview) said no evidence did those things- "Incidentally, that remains true today"

L still states- why TA still involved with murderer "at all, let alone sexually"?

"The text messages and other electronic communications demonstrated to me that Ms. Arias was intensely loyal to " TA - she would "take his verbal grenades over and over again, yet she never let them deter her from the relationship... no matter what Mr. Alexander would say to Ms. Arias it never diminished the love she seemingly had for him....however angry Mr. Alexander may have been....it never seemed to diminish" his "desire to maintain his relationship with her....he would call ...horrible names but never acted like he wanted the relationship to end...never took steps to permanently cease contact..never sought out a restraining order...instead...continued to communicate....have sex with .."

"Thus, in my mind, he either truly cared for this woman or he was using her for sex, there are no other explanation. 'Facts are stubborn things' " (pg. 259)

L states sex tape told him they had intense sexual relationship- "forbidden" by their religion- added intensity

"Based on what I had heard on the sex tape and what I had seen in the nude pictures, this sexual relationship was something that some might consider kinky and/or wild....seemed to me there is no way that this forbidden sexual behavior was something that they truly regretted because there seemed nothing tame about their sex life. The sex tape also made me consider the fact that Mr. Alexander might have had a sexual interest in children because in this tape he compared Ms. Arias' orgasm to that of a 12 year old girl. He also talked about corking the pot of a 12 year old girl. It never made any sense to me why he would say such things if he did not have such an interest. with my experience as a sex crimes attorney and my knowledge of his background I felt that if he had such an attraction he had likely been a victim of sexual abuse as a child. Could I conclude any of this definitively? No, but the evidence pointed in that direction" (pg. 260)

on what happened on 6/4/2008- initial thoughts crime scene-in fall, 2011- any evidence obtained did not change L's mind on how TA was killed

"I still believe that the crime scene was fueled by passion that the evidence pointed to the reality that a brutal struggle took place that day that ended in one lover having killed the other" (pg. 260)

But the murderer had changed her story - "While it is true that Ms. Arias changed her story, I would challenge you to come up with a single piece of evidence that I should have viewed differently once the change occurred"

the murderer's testimony: the murderer claims-

-she stated that- traveling from southern Calif- decided to "give into" TA's "request" - to visit him in Mesa

- she arrived at house "around 4 am on the morning of June 4, 2018"

-"several minutes after her arrival, the two went to sleep and woke up in the early afternoon...[she] woke up first..took a shower...after Mr. Alexander woke up the couple had sex....took photographs of each other. After...the two hung out...went to" TA's "office sometime before 5pm to look at a CD containing pictures of their travels....the CD would not work" TA "displayed his anger by throwing the CD across his office...had sex again...[TA] took a shower."

-"As the story goes, Mr. Alexander consents to Ms. Arias taking 'tasteful ' pictures of him in the shower....[she] drops the camera...[TA] jumps out of the shower and attacks [her] by throwing her to the ground....[she] eventually breaks free...runs into his closet and grabs a gun, Mr. Alexander's gun as she tells it. [she ] points this gun at [him] who tries to tackle her 'like a linebacker'..during this interaction the gun goes off...[TA] gets shot in the face. Further struggles ensues and [she] picks up a knife and nothing is recalled by [her] until she is driving near the Grand Canyon."

"without disclosing confidential information, that was her story and she was sticking to it. Did the physical evidence change because she changed her story? No......the physical evidence at the crime scene demonstrated that there was a struggle, it did not definitely portray the motive of the killer other than the fact that Ms. Arias was determined not to stop until she had killed Mr. Alexander" (pg. 260)

L reiterates what "he was left with"- 2 people in intense relationship, who were " 'addicted' " to each other which "could have been based on sexual chemistry..on the unhealthy love they seemed to have for each other....or psychological traumas they experienced as children...still dealing with" (pg. 261)

L felt that it seemed to him that they "were definitely addicted to each other"- doesn't know why- "apart from' for the murderer "returning to Yreka, it seemed that neither of them took meaningful steps to end this addiction"

he had a client with no "prior criminal history who killed her lover....stabbed him 27 times, shot him, slit his throat and was claiming self-defense."

did he believe her? No

"..what I believed was not important in a court of law. With few exceptions the client gets to tell their own story" (pg. 262)

(continued)

 

[MsJosie]

Sunlight helps your body produce vitamin D. It helps with depression and is for heart health. My levels were very low one year and I took a prescription of it, and now I take it daily. Of course opening my curtains and blinds could of helped too.

I read on line, sitting in sunlight each day helps, but it is getting colder outside and with Kansas wind and dust it is not always the best for me to be outside.

Did you ever hear of chemical poisoning, actually I had sulfur poisoning. It is not fun at all. ALL doctors, medical staff and pharmacies KNEW I had a major issue with sulfur, sulfite, sulfate, sulfa, in foods, water, medications. From 2005 until January 2016 I have been ill...MRSA, Head Shingles twice, cellulitis, chronic ear infection....and high BP...I mean high, and walked around in a fog. I remember writing here and mentioning some of this.

Last Christmas I made my last plans for life here on earth.....I was so sick. I kept researching and "trusted" my doctors who kept saying take Vit D, take Atenenol, take Levofloxin.

I discovered that Vit D, by prescription, and the Atenenol has Sulfas....in coloring, preservative and coatings....the Atenenol aldo caused my racing heart and heart pain along with the Levofloxin. Yet, I was to keep taking them per the doctor but pharmacy said to stop.

I listened to the pharmacy

For 11 years I was taking meds that had Sulfas in them and the doctors KNEW and admitted it. The pharmacy said I had sulfur/sulfa poisoning and it can be deadly.

I stopped taking all the above. It was very painful going through withdrawal from the Atenenol, but I knew if I stayed on the meds I would die. So what happens....my BP Is normal the high BP was caused by the Sulfas and now the heart races only if I eat something that contains any type of sulfur. Don't eat that food and racing heart stops.

I still have OA, RA, Fibro and ear issue but head is clear I can think and am not in a fog. I know the Vit D helped my aches but I cannot take it so I have looked for a replacement.

That is why I was interested in the light bulb....another easy help maybe.

And 7 more months my insurance changes when I turn 65, I will have a larger list of doctors to pick from. I will be looking for a new doctor, to one that listens and believes me and the tests!

I will look for this light bulb....I can adjust the daily use...thanks.

PS I am on the iPad so forgive spelling, it changes words and I do not always catch the change

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped with Ms. Arias (continued)

Chapter 47

What Did I Believe Happened on June 4, 2008

this is what L thought happened before trial began

"The theory I had then and the theory I have now are vastly different...there are only a few aspects of my thinking about what happened that day that has remained consistent from the first day that I received the file until the present day.....most prominent being what happened tp" TA " ...was horrific....a fate he did not deserve....was a true tragedy. The other being that his killing was fueled by a strong passionate rage" (pg. 263)

L states that theory of events before trial- tho' he doesn't "currently believe this theory to be correct at the same time it might very well be spot on as I did not simply pull it out of thin air"

L "contemplated" what happened "a great deal for a number of years.. preeminent question in my head from August of 2009, to the day the trial began..one of the first questions that came to mind from the first day I was assigned the case"

L states that to answer question...began with "what was the clear reality" - TA was shot in the face, stabbed 27X, had his throat slit...struggle took place....the murderer killed TA- evidence and she admitted it

not clear- Why? no motivation at crime scene- even tho' she said she "acted in self-defense"- she had "history of lying"- l didn't accept what the murderer said

L re-examined motivation when new evidence was discovered- he had to "combat any theory the State might offer and/or look for the best way to present the case to the jury"

L states that no evidence would provide motivation- again, only murderer knows and we are "left to theorize"

by late 2012 he states he had "some pretty well developed thoughts"

some of murderer's supporters believe the "ninja story" was true- L talked the murderer out of that story- some supporters believe she acted in "self- defense" and he couldn't prove that because "I am too inept of a lawyer to do so"

L states that some TA supporters "believe that I am an idiot on several levels because "they think I believe Ms. Arias' self- defense story even though I never publicly said I did- supported either her story and/or what she did that day simply because I was her lawyer" (pg. 285)

L states "I can't win with either argument. Regardless of what I say, someone thinks I am an idiot. So be it. I am not too concerned with what people think of me. Instead of trying to win with one side or the other, what I can do is continue to question why there are sides to begin with"

L states again- events of 6/4/2008 were "tragic...This is not a sporting event with teams or sides, it is a tragedy...even saying this..might only add to the reason why people that chose sides see me as an idiot. The good news for me in this regard is that I have nothing to lose because I am an idiot either way....so ..makes me unafraid to offer you an unrestrained look into the theory I had back in 2012, about what happened..." (pg. 266)

"So what does this idiot think happened?"

L states can't look at what happened by "simply looking at that day in a vacuum....I believe that the days preceding...contained many events and/or facts that provided insights..."

-back in Apr., 2008, the murderer moved from Mesa back to Yreka..have to assume the murderer didn't want to kill TA then "because she didn't do it " ...they had fight day she left and she was alone with him at his house- motivation to kill him "after she moved away from Mesa and sometime before she actually killed him"

L thought that there were "three 'suspects' " for motivation:

-"Suspect #1"- convo that they had on/about May 10, 2008- recorded by murderer- later played in court as "phone sex tapes"- not valid as motivation according to L- "not sort of interaction that would motivate" the murderer to kill TA- " this 'suspect' was dismissed" by L

-"suspect #2"- "could not be easily dismissed"- online convo May 26, 2008- "bulk" of convo was fight--TA very angry- called the murderer " '*advertiser censored*, a ''*advertiser censored*' a '3-hole wonder' " also "soulless, evil, and generally berates her character"

- the murderer "responded to these attacks in a passive and/or apologetic manner" but L thinks that this "did not absolve the 'suspect' as being the motivating force"

-evidence pointed to this- gun was stolen on May 28, 2008 where the murderer was living- grandparent's home- first step in plan would be getting gun

-police report - the murderer was on drive with her sister, Angela, when break-in happened- called them back to home- the murderer spoke to police- reported few items missing- her laptop was hidden and/or "sitting in her clothes hamper"- many to her things not taken "relatively speaking [the house] was not in too much disarray"

- few days after gun stolen- the murderer started driving south from Yreka- eventually arrives near Pasadena, Ca on 6/3/2008- here she " 'goes off the grid' " ( cell phone off and makes no credit card purchases- she is not traceable) before she drives to Mesa - happens between 9pm and 10pm night of 6/3/2008 - the murderer's "presence cannot be accounted for by objective evidence until nude photographs of her lying on Mr. Alexander's bed are taken on the afternoon of" 6/4/2008

-"Suspect #3"- something happened after the murderer arrived at TA's house- some interaction, some fight caused the murderer to go into rage "around 5:20 pm"- "suspect" because the murderer was in TA's house for "several hours " before killing him "and when she did, the killing itself was clearly fueled by anger"

L states that "based on the facts above, I am sure you can tell that neither of these 'suspects' could conclusively be eliminated as suspects nor could either be proven 'guilty' without physical evidence"

l had to consider "which 'suspect' was it" before 1st trial 2013

at time, L states that "suspect #3" was correct- that her motivation "did not arise until she arrived at his house"

-why? if the murderer left Yreka to kill TA- the motivator would be "suspect #2"- the online chat, "fueling her homicidal wrath for approximately 10 days"- was somehow " tapped for several hours while" they had sex

"...this theory did not make sense to me because this theory gave rise to many questions for which clear answers were not apparent"

-L talks about some questions - like "Why kill him over these words...this was certainly not the first time" TA called her names/attack her verbally- "Why wouldn't she simply think 'screw him' and go on with her life?"

-L states "at the time" in 2012- stealing gun from grandparent's home didn't make sense to him- could have just taken the gun without break-in (L says that what he knew about grandfather- he wouldn't have noticed)- after break-in, police would be involved- the report would have type of gun stolen- in "subsequent reports" her father had illegal firearms in his home- likely untraceable- the murderer could have gotten gun from father- he couldn't report gun stolen- illegal

-L considers the car rented at Redding Airport- to avoid detection? - he doesn't believe that- didn't make sense to him (whether premeditation happened then)

-have to give driver's license/credit card to rental agency- not covert- brother's neighbor drove the murderer to airport- created witnesses and "paper trial"

"I believe Ms. Arias when she said that Redding was simply a bigger town with better prices"

-but, L considers- why rent car at all?- why not drive own car?- his theory: she didn't want anyone to recognize her in Mesa- but "not many people in Mesa knew what type of car she drove"

-L states he thought real reason rent car- so she could "go safely"- he didn't think her car would make it to Ca and Utah- no routine maintenance on her car

- doesn't make sense to L that the murderer was "planning to kill Mr. Alexander at this time"

L speaks of next step on road trip: Monterey, CA- several things happened, but can only speak of

-the murderer visits former boyfriends- Matt and Darryl- "why create witnesses?" - why borrow gas can "that she doesn't need?"

-the murderer conducted banking transactions- created electronic trail- means she has "plenty of cash available to her if she wanted to go into Arizona covertly"- she could have bought things with cash- then no record of transactions, but she deposited cash into her accounts- leaves a trial

- the gas can bought at Walmart- Salinas, CA- L did not think this too significant in 2011- if she had plenty of cash to buy gas

"...it actually negated premeditation in my mind because (thought it made no real sense to buy it at all), as my thinking went; why would you buy a gas can if you already have two gas cans and were going on a covert mission? Not only that, she kept the receipt.....why wouldn't she throw a way the receipt?" (pg. 272)

L speaks of next step- Pasadena, CA- the murderer purchased several gallons of gas at convenience store- some with cash- some credit card- why use credit card- if she paid cash, no trace of her buying gas or how much gas- doesn't speak to L of premed

-somewhere "very close to city" [Pasadena].. she goes.. "off the grid"- cell phone off- makes no purchases- between 9pm- 10pm night of 6/3/2008

L speaks of next stop- TA's home- what happened there we "..,at least in part, rely on what" the murderer said happened

"..much of my thinking, as it relates to those events, is based on facts that stand alone. In formulating my theory, I chose to rely on facts that do not depend exclusively on Ms. Arias' word but may ultimately be consistent with the portions of her story that make sense."

-the murderer told Det. Flores she got to TA's house about 4am morning of 6/4/2008- made sense to L , given time takes to drive from Pasadena to Mesa "some computer forensics introduced at trial further supports this claim"

L states the murderer tells Det F that she and TA slept 'til "early afternoon .....after they woke up they had sex"- pics on TA's camera "objectively demonstrate that this encounter took place in the early afternoon as" the murderer "claimed"- more pics tell that "around 5:20 that evening" the murderer "the only other person in the home was taking pictures of Mr. Alexander in the shower and that within a matter of minutes his severly wounded or dead body was being drug across the bathroom floor...these are the facts" (pg. 273)

"..in my thinking, the idea that Ms. Arias wouls drive from Yreka...to Mesa..with designs on killing Mr. Alexander, finally arrive at his home and not kill him right away, made no sense to me....if she had the gun with her, she simply could have shot him...she could have killed him then and there. She could have then gotten back in her car and drove away and it would have been highly likely that no human being would have ever known she was there." (pg. 273)

L states it this "makes sense...Ryan Burns was waiting for her in Utah" - few hours after she arrived at TA's house

L states that it doesn't make sense that she had sex with TA, let him take nude pics of her- that's why he thinks that the motivation to kill TA "arose after arrived at his home aka 'Suspect #3' ... "this is my objective analysis at the time"

L states that you may "think.. I am ignoring all the signs of premeditation related to...trip...let me concede to you as I have to myself, that I could be wrong. The truth of the matter could be that Ms. Arias pulled into the driveway .....with the idea that she was going to walk in and kill him. At the same time then,those who believe that killing Mr. Alexander was Ms. Arias' plan when she pulled up to his house, would have to concede that if that was her plan she did not carry it out when she had the chance. That Ms. Arias did not initiate her plan at that point in time in which she was most likely to get away with it. To me this means that even if 'Suspect #2' is what motivated her trip to Mesa , when she got to his home, she changed her mind. If she arrived at Mr. Alexander's hone with the intention of killing him, her premeditation to do so ended when she did not do it when they were alone together in his office. This, in my mind supports my theory of the fact that something happened...that day...something set [her] off, which would ultimately turn us back to 'Suspect #3"(pg. 274)

L states that just because he thinks "Suspect #3" is correct "does not completely explain what I think happened"

What he believed "at the time":

- believed the murderer arrived at TA's house at 4pm- because of timeline "consistent with when she went 'off the grid' "

-based on computer records, TA was waiting up for the murderer

- that TA did want to have sex with the murderer when she arrived- "Why?"- because TA "always seemed interested in having sex with" the murderer- it had been "several weeks since the two had sex...he would be anxiously awaiting her arrival"

-they didn't have sex if they woke early afternoon- nude photos taken- he believed "without any physical evidence to support it" they had "second sex session"- L thought this because:

"given the sexual appetite Mr. Alexander showed towards Ms. Arias it made sense to me that he would want to have sex again before she left"

- "ultimate question" what happened after TA was in shower?

- L "believes" that when the murderer went to leave, TA made it "obvious to her that he wanted her out of the house before anyone saw her...were done having sex, so they were done hanging around....Ms. Arias felt used.....she blew her chances with Ryan Burns over this tryst and she simply had enough....she felt like this toxic relationship would haunt her for life if she didn't put a stop to it...she decided then and there, during a fir of rage. to put an end to the relationship" (pg. 275)

"How did she kill" TA?

-"once she decided to kill him she grabbed a gun... grandpa's gun? Yes...could this gun have been in Mr. Alexander's home? Yes....gun obtained elsewhere? Yes. Did it matter to me which gun it truly was? No..regardless of where the gun came from or who it belonged to, she did not grab this gun with ill intent until this point in time"

- (from forensic data)-after she grabbed gun she pointed it at TA....in response to having gun pointed at him, TA "leaps towards" the murderer to try to knock gun out of her hands ..when he did this, the murderer fired gun- shot TA in face- L considers this the "first injury"

- the murderer surprised that TA was still alive- gun jammed- the murderer went to grab knife- at same time, TA got to feet- leaned against bathroom counter- looked in mirror--then the murderer began stabbing him in his back "which gave rise to the struggle that ensued in the bathroom"- explains defensive wounds, blood splatter in bathroom

L believed "at some point in time during this struggle in the bathroom that Ms. Arias stabbed Mr. Alexander in the chest....due to the amount of blood in the hallway, after suffering this deep stab wound to the chest Mr. Alexander tried to make it down the hallway....he ultimately fell at the end of the hall where Ms. Arias slit Mr. Alexander's throat...After which time Mr. Alexander was dead and she drug his body down the hall"

"Is my thinking foolproof? No, in fact, I have another theory I will share in my final book that I believe is close to fool proof as it gets"

"....if you put aside whatever emotion you may have about the case and consider what I have said this theory makes a lot of sense" (pg. 278)
===================================================

(continue)

 

[RickshawFan]

"The text messages and other electronic communications demonstrated to me that Ms. Arias was intensely loyal to " TA - she would "take his verbal grenades over and over again, yet she never let them deter her from the relationship... no matter what Mr. Alexander would say to Ms. Arias it never diminished the love she seemingly had for him....however angry Mr. Alexander may have been....it never seemed to diminish" his "desire to maintain his relationship with her....he would call ...horrible names but never acted like he wanted the relationship to end...never took steps to permanently cease contact..never sought out a restraining order...instead...continued to communicate....have sex with .."

***
"I still believe that the crime scene was fueled by passion that the evidence pointed to the reality that a brutal struggle took place that day that ended in one lover having killed the other" (pg. 260)

Nurmi, get thee to a better [nunnery] education! This is not a Shakespearean tragedy... Passion, lust, poor long-suffering love victim, repeatedly rebuffed by her lover although she meets his every need, desire, never diminishing, slinging arrows of love, brutal struggle to the death....


Saith Nurmith, assessing the crime.....

Shakespeare Love Quotes 6: Antony & Cleopatra – Act 5, Scene 5
“The stroke of death is as a lovers pinch, Which hurts and is desired”


Saith Jodith, assessing her stalking.....
Shakespeare Love Quotes 9: The Tempest – Act 3, Scene 1
“Hear my soul speak. Of the very instant that I saw you, Did my heart fly at your service”

Jodith on Princess Jodith....
Shakespeare Love Quotes 23: Anotony & Cleopatra – Act 3, Scene 5
“Her passions are made of nothing but the finest part of pure love”

Saith RickshawFanish in defense of TA.....
Shakespeare Love Quotes 22: As You Like It – Act 3, Scene 5
“I [Jodi] pray you, do not fall in love with me, For I am falser than vows made in wine”.

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped with Ms. Arias (continued)

Chapter 48

What I Believed the State Would Argue

L knew State was going to claim First Degree Murder- premeditated or felony murder- that focus would be that the murderer planned to kill TA and "carried out her plan on " 6/4/2008

bigger question- what motivation- why she killed him- not how they could prove the murderer "did not act in self-defense"

"..why was I more concerned about the attribution of motive to Ms. Arias than I was her self-defense claim"- his main goal- save the murderer's life- "finding of guilt is really a secondary consideration"

L never thought that the murderer would not be convicted of First Degree Murder- didn't feel jury would accept claim of self-defense- thought the motivation "would become the prominent issue"

L states that "the why" of State's argument very important to him

"The way I saw things, whichever side better defines the 'why' this crime occurred would ultimately prevail on the issue of life versus death...I had a hard time reconciling the possible motives that they might attribute to Ms. Arias with their theory of the case" (pg. 278)

L "assumed" that State was going to argue- murderer took grandfather's gun so she could kill TA- State was "going to make a big deal" about the murderer renting car in Redding instead of Yreka- white car was "desire to be more covert"- L couldn't understand how rented car could be "covert"

-her time in Monterrey- L believed the State wouldn't "comment much on it"- except for the gas cans "nothing she did there...banking transactions, was consistent with the idea that she was on a covert mission to kill" TA

L had idea what State was going to argue on the murderer's arrival at TA's house

"..in order to prove to the court that Ms. Arias should be eligible for the death penalty the State had to prove at least one aggravating factor to the Judge.....proving these factors requires the State to give a description to the court of how the killing took place and sometimes why the killing occurred....to convince the judge that the required legal standard had been met"

L wasn't the murderer's lawyer when this hearing occurred- he read transcript

-seemed to L that State was going to argue- the murderer arrived at TA's house with intentions of killing him- that murderer hung around several hours, had sex to make TA tired, "vulnerable"- that it would be "easier for her to kill him"

-the murderer saw "opportune moment" to kill when TA in shower

- what happened next- told thru Det. Flore's testimony in court:

-he told court that he "recently" talked to Dr. Horn- "based on what Dr. Horn had told him Ms. Arias had shot Mr. Alexander first...this wound only stunned Mr. Alexander...he was able to stagger to his bathroom counter where he aspired blood onto the sink"

- the murderer "then begins inflicting the knife wounds...27 of them.....the fatal wounds being either the deep stab to Mr. Alexander's chest or the slashing of his throat...fatal wounds occurring last because of the defensive wounds....on" TA's hands (pg. 279)

-at hearing- The State never stated why the murderer did this- "...State had not been able to fit into the factual scenario that they adhered to so rigidly"

-in order to prove premeditation, before the murderer arrived at house, the murderer had a plan in place when she pulled up to TA's home

- that TA was in his shower "minutes before death"

"I assumed that this story would be the State's story going forward because Detective Flores was under oath when he relayed this version of events and because... also retold this version of events to CBS when he interviewed on '48 Hours'. However, most of all, I thought that this would be the story because it fit the evidence" (pg. 280)

L thought that there was lots of holes in State's theory- not issue with "order of wounds" tho'

- issues:

- why the murderer rented car in Redding instead of Yreka- not "covert"- rental agency in airport- with surveillance cameras (L still thinks more covert to drive own car)
-the murderer visited 2 former boyfriends- performed banking transactions in Monterey

-that the murderer had to wait 13 hours before "right moment arrived" when TA was weak, vulnerable (made no sense to L- why wait for TA to be weak?

"..the question I believed that would make a difference between..being sentenced to life or sentenced to death..Why did she do all of this? Based on the State's theory of events at some point in time Ms. Arias decided that she wanted to kill Mr. Alexander"

L never heard State make any argument that the murderer wanted to kill TA before she moved back to Yreka

-to accept State's version- after moving back to Yreka, the murderer needed to kill TA- why? because she was enraged, jealous about TA's relationship with Mimi Hall- didn't make sense to L because TA"s, Mimi's relationship existed before the murderer moved back to Yreka- L wondered how state would explain that to jury

-if State's theory was that murderer angry because of name calling online chat May 26, 2008, why didn't she kill him as soon as she got to TA's home- immediately? or when they were alone in TA's office? or before nude pics taken?

"I saw this as a huge problem for the State on two levels. One, because it necessarily shortened the time of ant premeditation that may have existed with Ms. Arias' mind to that day and that day alone. Secondly, when such a temporal restraint is placed onto Ms. Arias' motivation, the motivation for the murder becomes directly related to what transpired on that fateful day between the two of them" (pg. 281)

End of Section 9 (pg. 281)
===========================================================

Next:

Section 10
How Was I Going to Save Ms. Arias' Life?

Chapter 49
Why Did I Fight For Ms. Arias Life?
===================================================

 

[RickshawFan]

Nurmi makes so many assumptions in his interpretation of the evidence! Every conclusion he draws is based on an unexamined assumption. He also takes concrete evidence like texts and photos as though these speak the truth, but he doesn't even consider the possibility that much of the stuff he's relying on could be/is manufactured. And he's not smart enough to see this. Most of it depends on the word of the killer.

It's too bad Nurmi's education wasn't more rigorous: his critical thinking skills should be a lot sharper for someone with an advanced degree. They would also be a lot sharper if he hung out with smart people. [You can tell, by way of contrast, that JM hangs out with smart people. Maintaining and developing high-end verbal and critical thinking skills over the years requires associating with brainy people, IMO. These skills do not survive in a vacuum.]

And if he wasn't sure how to process and evaluate all this detail, he could have hired himself a detective to help him look at stuff and bounce ideas around with. Nurmi's logic just isn't....

 

[YESorNO]

Legally Speaking: Kirk Nurmi Interview - Part 5 (final)

[video=youtube;uBljQh-_A_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBljQh-_A_Q[/video]

 

[Niner]

Hey!

Zuri, I hope someone does something nice for that Food Lion employee. That sure was a close call! Something similar happened to my mother a few years ago .... only the caller told her her grandson was in the hospital in another country. At least she called me to check on him first, but it had her very upset and worried.

Oh that reminds me - it happened to my Huz, except he was the one in trouble. Somehow "they" called his best friend and said he was in jail in the Netherlands and didn't have any money and had lost his passport - oh, actually, it came thru an email. I believe the Huz' email was hacked. Somehow my Huz got a hold of his friend and told him - it wasn't him in jail, and no lost passport!

Question ?? - my Huz does not want me to get in touch with his brother (older by 12 years) that lives in Modesto, along with his niece and two nephews. But I don't think that is right... I thought after the Huz' doctor appt on Monday - asking the doctor "how long" my Huz has... and getting in touch with his nephew's wife (friends on Facebook), and letting them know all about what's going on with him. What do you all think? Should I do that? Go against my Huz' wishes?? :thinking: :waitasec: My Huz doesn't think he'll make to next Spring, as he hasn't been feeling too well in the last couple of days... I thought I'd ask the doctor (also) about getting another red blood cell transfusion for him. Last time, it seemed to "perk" him up a bit - you know - a little more energy. And he fell again... :gaah: He was trying to shoo one of the kitties off his spider plant, was leaning on the metal patio table and the table collapsed, and down goes the Huz. He has about a 5 to 6 inch part of his forearm ripped away... :scared: part of the skin is gone and the other part is all black and blue... GAHHH!!!! Luckily we had gauze pads, gauze rolls, etc. and he took care of his arm. I told him to be more carefully about walking only with his cane; he doesn't like to use the walker anymore... AND he's been grouchy for past week - but I can take that! LOL! And I understand why he's grouchy, I would be too!

Anyway - my problem!

Oh, and Nurmi's book - slow reading for me! Got up to chapter 4 last night. :read:
I haven't marked anything down that seemed pertainent - so nothing "new" to report on the book so far!

L still states- why TA still involved with murderer "at all, let alone sexually"?

"The text messages and other electronic communications demonstrated to me that Ms. Arias was intensely loyal to " TA - she would "take his verbal grenades over and over again, yet she never let them deter her from the relationship... no matter what Mr. Alexander would say to Ms. Arias it never diminished the love she seemingly had for him....however angry Mr. Alexander may have been....it never seemed to diminish" his "desire to maintain his relationship with her....he would call ...horrible names but never acted like he wanted the relationship to end...never took steps to permanently cease contact..never sought out a restraining order...instead...continued to communicate....have sex with .."

That's not true from what Hope4More came up with the texts. He did NOT contact her after May 26th or was it May 22nd Hope4More?? She might have texted him, but he did not answer her. I don't believe he talked to her while she was making her killer tour thru California...

MsJosie :hug: Hope you feel better! Yes, hopefully, you'll get a doctor who listens to you!!

Okay - off to watch a movie with the Huz!

:seeya:

 

[atthelake]

I too know that I tend to get depressed over the holidays.... so walk with me tonight and we are going to put on Christmas music and make cookies for all of my neighbors!!! I always feel better when I do things for others.. It gets me out of my funk.

Putting on Christmas music ... right now Mannheim Steamroller.

Here is the recipe for lace cookies! Everyone here get some when I'm done!!

 

[Zuri]

Zuri, I hope someone does something nice for that Food Lion employee. That sure was a close call! Something similar happened to my mother a few years ago .... only the caller told her her grandson was in the hospital in another country. At least she called me to check on him first, but it had her very upset and worried.

We think alike Spellbound. I called Food Lion Corporate today to commend the employee to make sure she gets the praise and that her District Manager is aware. My mother will do something nice for her and include a note. Preying on the elderly is awful, and happens more times than not, in all kinds of ways. I am sorry this happened to your Mom. Simply Awful.

 

[Spellbound]

Ms. Josie, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I hope you continue to feel much better now. I can relate to the fibromyalgia... ouch.

Niner..... I don't know what to tell you as to your husband's wishes to not tell his brother, or the niece and nephews. Does he get along with and speak to them? I can understand not wanting their attention put on him as a "terminally ill person" (if that is what this may be). But if they are somewhat close, they won't want to be hit with horrible news when they cannot see or speak to him while he is still able to. I hope others here have some advice to share that will help you decide what to do.
He really needs to understand that there is no shame in using a cane or walker while his balance is off kilter.... it is so much better than getting battle wounds that may be hard to heal while his immune system is working overtime. What if he falls and gets hurt and you can't help him get up? Oh men!! They turn our hair gray too early (gotta blame it on something).

 

[atthelake]

Okay everyone here is the Christmas music I have playing? good !!let's get out of any funk we got going on tonight!

Next for Christmas and getting in the mood and out of a bad mood we need to have our senses peaked.

So, on the stove we have cloves and cinnamon boiling in this sidebar ...and the room smells so good!

No children here .. no hubby... nobody here except for me.. and all of you... but starting to remember days gone past... And in the near future where I will give all my neighbors some cookies. probably about a quarter of them I would think are Muslim or Jewish or Hindu... So I'm trying to between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

 

[Spellbound]

We think alike Spellbound. I called Food Lion Corporate today to commend the employee to make sure she gets the praise and that her District Manager is aware. My mother will do something nice for her and include a note. Preying on the elderly is awful, and happens more times than not, in all kinds of ways. I am sorry this happened to your Mom. Simply Awful.

That is so nice of you, Zuri! Sometimes just going out of our way a little bit will make an employee feel appreciated. I just am so happy your mom didn't get caught up in this scam. I hope she will stay more aware now.... as will I.

 

[Spellbound]

Okay everyone here is the Christmas music I have playing? good !!let's get out of any funk we got going on tonight!

Next for Christmas and getting in the mood and out of a bad mood we need to have our senses peaked.

So, on the stove we have cloves and cinnamon boiling in this sidebar ...and the room smells so good!

No children here .. no hubby... nobody here except for me.. and all of you... but starting to remember days gone past... And in the near future where I will give all my neighbors some cookies. probably about a quarter of them I would think are Muslim or Jewish or Hindu... So I'm trying to between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

View attachment 85636

Oh, I would love to be in your home right now! I bet it smells really nice .... cinnamon and cloves on the stove. I love it!! Thank you for sharing this lovely post!! Happy holiday feelings to everyone!

I really REALLY like your little nook for the stove area. So cozy to see this.

 

[atthelake]

Pretending a chef on TV I do what they do and put everything in little bowls so I don't have to think about it while I'm listening to music ... Won't be long before the first batch is done for everybody!

Has anyone else turned off their television for a Friday night and decided to listen to Christmas music to get in a better mood?

 

[Susza]

Jingles for Nore!! Sending love and feel betters, too.
Glad she is able to keep in contact with you coffeej. Thank you for keeping us informed.

Yes, JINGLES are coming your way, NORE!

Thank you, Coffee, for keeping us updated.

 

[Zuri]

Hatfield, please take good care and keep posting. St. John's Wort works for some people as does SAM-E, both which can be found in the vitamin aisle. Most everyone needs Vitamin D as we don't get out as much and we typically use sunscreen. A lot of makeup has SPF in it too. The light therapy helps as mentioned in previous posts.

IMO the holidays can be overwhelming. Crowds of people, more cars with annoying drivers on the road, commercials etc are an onslaught of visual stimuli. The pressure of buying gifts for people, especially when you are down, can be almost too much. Christmas carols evoke memories of years past and can be a source of sadness, especially when loved ones aren't present.

I hope you will keep posting, especially on the days you are down. I know we will all join in making you smile as best we can. Next thing you know, you will be asking us to stop making you laugh because your face hurts or you have a cramp in your side. They make medicine for that too!

 

[Zuri]

Ms. Josie, I hope you feel better. No one knows your body better than you and I am so glad all those awful symptoms have diminished.

 

[Zuri]

Okay everyone here is the Christmas music I have playing? good !!let's get out of any funk we got going on tonight!

Next for Christmas and getting in the mood and out of a bad mood we need to have our senses peaked.

So, on the stove we have cloves and cinnamon boiling in this sidebar ...and the room smells so good!

No children here .. no hubby... nobody here except for me.. and all of you... but starting to remember days gone past... And in the near future where I will give all my neighbors some cookies. probably about a quarter of them I would think are Muslim or Jewish or Hindu... So I'm trying to between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

View attachment 85636

ATL, I am at your door. Your house is gorgeous and the smell divine!