Sidebar Discussion #10

[NavySubMom]

Me too LG. I believe GA was set up that day he said he would do anything. Never in a million years did he think KC would accuse him of somrthing like this.
It never even entered his mind because it wasn't true.
IMO it was all a set up by JB, to assure KC that GA would do anything to save her. If you remember at the beginning of the case JB was with CA & GA in their livingroom & said KC's lying had to be more - like if GA molested her.
IMO he was guaging their reaction. His plan was set in motion at that point as a last ditch effort if he couldn't convince everyone that Kronk did it, no equasearch did it......

I completely agree with you com_n_sense, especially now after hearing JB describe the meeting with GA that he and Mason had (hoping we can believe JB to be telling the truth here) in his book, it moreso cements if for me,

that JB got GA to say on the stand in that pretrial hearing that he would do ANYTHING to help FCA, then with JB/CM in the livingroom with GA or whever they really were, telling him that in order to save FCA, her bizarre behavior and lying had to be explained by MORE than just trauma or grief/denial to explain the 31 days (as JB stated they indicated to GA it had to be MORE in his book), remembering that GA said he would do ANYTHING,

then I think they suggested or told GA that FCA said GA had molested her, so he hung his head in silence per JB, probably COMPLETELY unable to respond, saying to himself, "This, THIS is what they want me to do to save FCA, THIS is what I will have to agree to, molesting my daughter, THIS is what will save FCA from the death penalty."

He knew that they wanted him to agree to this lie, and that FCA wanted him to agree to this lie.

Wonder if they got any hints or notes from the Susan Smith trial, I watched it on CourtTV many moons ago when they had little or no commercials, and I watched Susan Smith's Stepfather, ON THE WITNESS STAND, agree that he molested her as a child. Wonder if JB wanted to take a page from that book to use in their own "story."

Defending Smith, Stepfather Says He Also Bears Blame
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/28/us/defending-smith-stepfather-says-he-also-bears-blame.html

ETA: Smith's stepfather may very well have molested her, I thought he did when I watched him testify, but I'm not putting that in here for the veracity of the Smith trial, just drawing a correlation to the FCA trial and GA molestation "theory".


IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Tulessa]

I'm off to my mountain. Love you guys

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I completely agree with you com_n_sense, especially now after hearing JB describe the meeting with GA that he and Mason had (hoping we can believe JB to be telling the truth here) in his book, it moreso cements if for me,

that JB got GA to say on the stand in that pretrial hearing that he would do ANYTHING to help FCA, then with JB/CM in the livingroom with GA, telling him that in order to save FCA, her lying had to be MORE than just trauma or grief/denial to explain the 31 days (as JB stated they indicated to GA it had to be MORE in his book), remembering that GA said he would do ANYTHING,

then I think they suggested or told GA that FCA said GA had molested her, so he hung his head in silence per JB, probably COMPLETELY unable to respond, saying to himself, "This, THIS is what they want me to do to save FCA, THIS is what I will have to agree to, molesting my daughter, THIS is what will save FCA from the death penalty."

He knew that they wanted him to agree to this lie, and that FCA wanted him to agree to this lie.

Wonder if they got any hints or notes from the Susan Smith trial, I watched it on CourtTV many moons ago when they had little or no commercials, and I watched Susan Smith's Stepfather, ON THE WITNESS STAND, agree that he molested her as a child. Wonder if JB wanted to take a page from that book to use in their own "story."

Defending Smith, Stepfather Says He Also Bears Blame
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/28/us/defending-smith-stepfather-says-he-also-bears-blame.html

ETA: Smith's stepfather may very well have molested her, I thought he did when I watched him testify, but I'm not putting that in here for the veracity of the Smith trial, just drawing a correlation to the FCA trial and GA molestation "theory".


IMO, MOO, etc.

Thank you, thank you NavySubMom for saying so concisely what I have tried to say many times. When I say GA "went along with it" this is what I mean. But now seeing it so well put, I ALSO see what Logicalgirl always asks about this theory....."Just when did George "go along" with they accusations?" He didn't. He denied it. But IMO he didn't deny it loud enough then, and he is not denying it loud enough now.
The very act of his not denying it now lends to the credibility of the accusations (for the FCA supporters). They think, well he must have done it, because he keeps his mouth shut while Jose spews on TV every chance he gets. So it furthers JB's objective which is to try and help JQ public see FCA with sympathy. Which will in turn allow her to return to some sort of "bella vita".

 

[SunnyinMO]

Speak for yourself, please. I am planning on attending.

Will help with your bail if necessary....:woohoo:
Don't forget your barf bag!!

 

[NavySubMom]

Thank you, thank you NavySubMom for saying so concisely what I have tried to say many times. When I say GA "went along with it" this is what I mean. But now seeing it so well put, I ALSO see what Logicalgirl always asks about this theory....."Just when did George "go along" with they accusations?" He didn't. He denied it. But IMO he didn't deny it loud enough then, and he is not denying it loud enough now.
The very act of his not denying it now lends to the credibility of the accusations (for the FCA supporters). They think, well he must have done it, because he keeps his mouth shut while Jose spews on TV every chance he gets. So it furthers JB's objective which is to try and help JQ public see FCA with sympathy. Which will in turn allow her to return to some sort of "bella vita".

As I have said a few times on here over the past few months, my sense of what CA/GA knew, WHEN they knew it, and their "part" in that fiasco of a trial has changed over this past year since the verdict.

The snippet that I saw posted that came out of JB's book, I don't have the exact quote handy, but when JB said he/CM told GA that, in order to explain FCA's 31 days, her "partying", her bizarre detachment and the whole shebang, in order to "save her", JB said to GA in that livingroom meeting that there had to be MORE than just the trauma of Caylee's death, MORE than just a denial-type-thing to have it go over well for FCA in the trial, (well, it had to be MORE for a NORMAL JURY :banghead: anyway),

when I read that, THAT is when I felt what I described above, the 40-second or so of GA hanging his head after JB/CM told GA that FCA said GA molested her, GA was probably utterly speechless, shocked, and then deeply saddened, THAT is when he realized that MORE and the ANYTHING meant he was being asked to agree to say that he molested FCA. How an attorney or daughter can EVER ask a father to agree to that when it never happened is beyond me, but then this whole defense team and trial scenario as it happened is beyond me!

IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[RR0004]

I guess your own words explain why you think Casey Anthony murdered Caylee.

And yes, it was in the majority of the public's (erronious) opinion, a slam dunk guilty verdict, in my opinion, because of that opinion, Anthony would have been wrongly convicted.

OY! Which words? Your words? I'm dizzy. Getting off this track...'cause it goes absolutely nowhere.

 

[logicalgirl]

Now Logical - did you forget the very first time a thwartcake was served? Remember, it was when the boy lawyer got thwarted in traffic. Then every time they were thwarted thereafter!

Wasn't that what JB put in the reply to why he didn't make the deadline. Gads, I remember us talking about them being thwarted and I think I made the first cake, but wasn't it that time that it started? PS - so glad you took over most of the baking, yours are better than mine, must be that Canadian sugar!

You are close - I named and presented the first one and it took off from there...now you're the fine design work person and I...do the baking!!!:floorlaugh:

 

[ZsaZsa]

As I have said a few times on here over the past few months, my sense of what CA/GA knew, WHEN they knew it, and their "part" in that fiasco of a trial has changed over this past year since the verdict.

The snippet that I saw posted that came out of JB's book, I don't have the exact quote handy, but when JB said he/CM told GA that, in order to explain FCA's 31 days, her "partying", her bizarre detachment and the whole shebang, in order to "save her", JB said to GA in that livingroom meeting that there had to be MORE than just the trauma of Caylee's death, MORE than just a denial-type-thing to have it go over well for FCA in the trial, (well, it had to be MORE for a NORMAL JURY :banghead: anyway),

when I read that, THAT is when I felt what I described above, the 40-second or so of GA hanging his head after JB/CM told GA that FCA said GA molested her, GA was probably utterly speechless, shocked, THAT is when he realized that MORE and the ANYTHING meant he was being asked to agree to say that he molested FCA. How an attorney or daughter can EVER ask a father to agree to that when it never happened is beyond me, but then this whole defense team and trial scenario as it happened is beyond me!

IMO, MOO, etc.

Yes, and in asking GA to fall on his sword for Casey it is obvious that Baez
knows absolutely that Casey is guilty of murder. He had to come up with the oldest taboo to shock the Jury into making sense of her indifference to Caylee's death..

 

[logicalgirl]

As I have said a few times on here over the past few months, my sense of what CA/GA knew, WHEN they knew it, and their "part" in that fiasco of a trial has changed over this past year since the verdict.

The snippet that I saw posted that came out of JB's book, I don't have the exact quote handy, but when JB said he/CM told GA that, in order to explain FCA's 31 days, her "partying", her bizarre detachment and the whole shebang, in order to "save her", JB said to GA in that livingroom meeting that there had to be MORE than just the trauma of Caylee's death, MORE than just a denial-type-thing to have it go over well for FCA in the trial, (well, it had to be MORE for a NORMAL JURY :banghead: anyway),

when I read that, THAT is when I felt what I described above, the 40-second or so of GA hanging his head after JB/CM told GA that FCA said GA molested her, GA was probably utterly speechless, shocked, THAT is when he realized that MORE and the ANYTHING meant he was being asked to agree to say that he molested FCA. How an attorney or daughter can EVER ask a father to agree to that when it never happened is beyond me, but then this whole defense team and trial scenario as it happened is beyond me!

IMO, MOO, etc.

Yup agree if that conversation ever happened, but I think they did it to gauge his reaction and see if he would lose his temper...which I think they would have preferred - would have make it a whole lot easier...

 

[TotallyObsessed]

As I have said a few times on here over the past few months, my sense of what CA/GA knew, WHEN they knew it, and their "part" in that fiasco of a trial has changed over this past year since the verdict.

The snippet that I saw posted that came out of JB's book, I don't have the exact quote handy, but when JB said he/CM told GA that, in order to explain FCA's 31 days, her "partying", her bizarre detachment and the whole shebang, in order to "save her", JB said to GA in that livingroom meeting that there had to be MORE than just the trauma of Caylee's death, MORE than just a denial-type-thing to have it go over well for FCA in the trial, (well, it had to be MORE for a NORMAL JURY :banghead: anyway),

when I read that, THAT is when I felt what I described above, the 40-second or so of GA hanging his head after JB/CM told GA that FCA said GA molested her, GA was probably utterly speechless, shocked, THAT is when he realized that MORE and the ANYTHING meant he was being asked to agree to say that he molested FCA. How an attorney or daughter can EVER ask a father to agree to that when it never happened is beyond me, but then this whole defense team and trial scenario as it happened is beyond me!

IMO, MOO, etc.

Yes. And he did, in fact, tell the truth on the stand when he testified that "No" he had never molested his daughter. So he didn't lie. Then. He just didn't shout from the mountain top 'HELL NO I DIDN'T DO THAT" the way most innocent people did, and hence the jury thought "well he seems to have lied about the affair, so he could be lying about this too". I see that.

But that doesn't in any way explain how they considered George to be on trial, instead of Casey. How they didn't look at the evidence presented...and yes, Rossva, there was plenty of evidence where a normal, thinking human being could come to the logical conclusion of what happened.

The law says "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT"...not "beyond ALL doubt". A very big difference. The might have had doubt, but not reasonable doubt that one picture, one accusation, and "newly" remembered ways to bury dead pets could get past. Considering the mounds of scientific, forensic and consciousness of guilt evidence presented. That jury failed. Period.

This case was a confluence of crazy and evil. Evil won out this time.

JB's defense was to explode a nuclear bomb (incest, molestation) to cover over the TNT bomb (the murder and 31 days of not giving a crap).

 

[NavySubMom]

Yes. And he did, in fact, tell the truth on the stand when he testified that "No" he had never molested his daughter. So he didn't lie. Then. He just didn't shout from the mountain top 'HELL NO I DIDN'T DO THAT" the way most innocent people did, and hence the jury thought "well he seems to have lied about the affair, so he could be lying about this too". I see that.

But that doesn't in any way explain how they considered George to be on trial, instead of Casey. How they didn't look at the evidence presented...and yes, Rossva, there was plenty of evidence where a normal, thinking human being could come to the logical conclusion of what happened.

The law says "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT"...not "beyond ALL doubt". A very big difference. The might have had doubt, but not reasonable doubt that one picture, one accusation, and "newly" remembered ways to bury dead pets could get past. Considering the mounds of scientific, forensic and consciousness of guilt evidence presented. That jury failed. Period.

This case was a confluence of crazy and evil. Evil won out this time.

JB's defense was to explode a nuclear bomb (incest, molestation) to cover over the TNT bomb (the murder and 31 days of not giving a crap).

I can't remember at the moment, what was the question asked to GA when he said

"No, and this is the first time I am hearing that"

or something along those lines, was that the molestation accusation question when JA asked him that, he was the first prosecution witness on the stand I remember, in fact the first witness for the whole trial,

was it THAT question? if so, I believe it was NOT the first time he was hearing that accusation, as he heard it from both JB/CM and Lippman before the trial, so a little white lie??

or was it the answer for the River Cruz stuff???

IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Okay, call me Miss Cleo! Remember a week or so ago when I said when Kathryn Casey's new book comes out on the 31st it will tank JB's book. Well, it looks like the pre-sales are already tanking it!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Okay, so the links show the book, but it is #1 in both! Click on the writing for the current list.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/229582011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_5_last"]Amazon Best Sellers: best Murder & Mayhem@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51w0ZlfQ-2L.@@AMEPARAM@@51w0ZlfQ-2L[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/229583011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_2_5_last"]Amazon Best Sellers: best True Crime@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51w0ZlfQ-2L.@@AMEPARAM@@51w0ZlfQ-2L[/ame]

 

[2goldfish]

I can't remember at the moment, what was the question asked to GA when he said

"No, and this is the first time I am hearing that"

or something along those lines, was that the molestation accusation question when JA asked him that, he was the first prosecution witness on the stand I remember, in fact the first witness for the whole trial,

was it THAT question? if so, I believe it was NOT the first time he was hearing that accusation, as he heard it from both JB/CM and Lippman before the trial, so a little white lie??

or was it the answer for the River Cruz stuff???

IMO, MOO, etc.

BBM if I recall, he said it in reference to supposedly being there the day caylee "drowned"

 

[com n sense]

Yes. And he did, in fact, tell the truth on the stand when he testified that "No" he had never molested his daughter. So he didn't lie. Then. He just didn't shout from the mountain top 'HELL NO I DIDN'T DO THAT" the way most innocent people did, and hence the jury thought "well he seems to have lied about the affair, so he could be lying about this too". I see that.

But that doesn't in any way explain how they considered George to be on trial, instead of Casey. How they didn't look at the evidence presented...and yes, Rossva, there was plenty of evidence where a normal, thinking human being could come to the logical conclusion of what happened.

The law says "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT"...not "beyond ALL doubt". A very big difference. The might have had doubt, but not reasonable doubt that one picture, one accusation, and "newly" remembered ways to bury dead pets could get past. Considering the mounds of scientific, forensic and consciousness of guilt evidence presented. That jury failed. Period.

This case was a confluence of crazy and evil. Evil won out this time.

JB's defense was to explode a nuclear bomb (incest, molestation) to cover over the TNT bomb (the murder and 31 days of not giving a crap).

I really don't think it would have mattered if GA shouted it from the rooftops or not. The seed was planted[at the beginning & allowed to grow through out the trial. Shame on JB for slaughtering an innocent man!!! His little plan worked so well that to this day there are people that really believe KC killed her daughter
& was molested by GA. He suceeded in making even the ones who knew of her guilt think she was molested, even raped.
JB knew by making the world believe KC was molested by her monster of a father that if he could molest her he surely could be capable of trying to cover an um - accident. What he was really doing was making GA look like a murderer in his smarmy way he has.
So there ya have it. GA became the monster instaed of the real monster.
You have to have a really evil mind to plan something like this.
All JMOH

 

[logicalgirl]

Okay, call me Miss Cleo! Remember a week or so ago when I said when Kathryn Casey's new book comes out on the 31st it will tank JB's book. Well, it looks like the pre-sales are already tanking it!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Okay, so the links show the book, but it is #1 in both! Click on the writing for the current list.

Amazon Best Sellers: best Murder & Mayhem

Amazon Best Sellers: best True Crime

Okay so I paged down the mayhem list to *80 and did not see baez being presumed guilty?:waitasec:

 

[ynotdivein]

I have no idea where to put this, but I want to applaud and thank the fact checkers who are rapidly debunking Baez's book.

Couldn't agree more. For anyone who's missed it, here's a link:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179945"]Fact-Checking "Presumed Guilty" ***LIST ONLY--NO DISCUSSION***[/ame]

As long as we're here....

Please remember that we have 215 pages of threads in Caylee's case.

Yes, 215 pages of threads, at 25 threads per page, with each thread probably averaging over 1,000 posts.

This means that any fact, photo, statement, document, video clip or side-by-side enhanced comparison of potential trunk stain residue that you might want to discuss is very likely right here at your fingertips--but YOU HAVE TO DO A SEARCH FOR THEM.

It's all well and good to rely on one another to help find information or to ask someone to provide a link. But at this point, in this case, most if it is right out there, and in fact is right here.

Do some sleuthing before you post a request for information from your fellow posters.

And if your comment more properly belongs in one of the 5,000 currently existing threads about this case, then find that thread and bump it.

Please and :tyou:

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I really don't think it would have mattered if GA shouted it from the rooftops or not. The seed was planted[at the beginning & allowed to grow through out the trial. Shame on JB for slaughtering an innocent man!!! His little plan worked so well that to this day there are people that really believe KC killed her daughter
& was molested by GA. He suceeded in making even the ones who knew of her guilt think she was molested, even raped.
JB knew by making the world believe KC was molested by her monster of a father that if he could molest her he surely could be capable of trying to cover an um - accident. What he was really doing was making GA look like a murderer in his smarmy way he has.
So there ya have it. GA became the monster instaed of the real monster.
You have to have a really evil mind to plan something like this.
All JMOH

But...what if that is what he WANTS us to think. That HE planned it and is the EVIL one? Yet another deflection from the real monster mom.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Ok.. as you guys know ive been reading the ucky book.. and in reading it some things about the whole GA / ca/ casey thing..

(the items in quotes are from the book)

it is obvious to me early on that jose hated GA, its obvious it stems from this...

Later on I would discover that George would say some pretty negative things about me to law enforcement

In reading in the book .. and i will have to find more examples..as i can and save them
but this is what he said about trying to bail casey out..

Most bondsmen require a 10 percent payment in cash and then collateral that equals the rest. In the case of the Anthonys, they would have to pay him $ 50,000 and own a house worth $ 450,000. Their house wasn’t worth close to that, but Polakoff was willing to give them a break. He said that if the Anthonys made payments on the $ 50,000 and put their home up for collateral, he would post Casey’s bail. It was exactly what the Anthonys were looking for

After meeting with the bondsman and spending a lot of time arranging to get Casey out, I was shocked when, at the last minute, Cindy said “no.” “George doesn’t want to post the bond,” she said. My jaw hit the ground, because they were sure Casey knew where Caylee was, and I couldn’t understand why they weren’t doing everything they could to find Caylee. I told her that I had gone to a lot of trouble to arrange this and that I was furious she was saying no. “He’s my husband,” said Cindy. “He’s half owner of the house. I have to respect his wishes.” Angry as I could be, I went to see Casey. I told her that George was preventing her from getting out of jail.

this brought to mind to me casey and her comment in a jail visit about them passing by or passing up on an opportunity to get her out....

The whole thing to me is this.. first off.. we dont know if any of the above is true.. as look at the source.. butt
where in the heck would the A's get 50 grand for the deposit.. and what second mortage company in their right mind would have loaned them the money with neither of them working...
casey and her stealing had already tapped all their money..

I personally believe (after reading the book) that Jose got angry at the A;'s early on and did his best to put as big of wedge between them all as he could..
there are many times in the book where he talks about telling casey things they did or didnt do.. I think he egged on her anger at them..

there is one point in the book when he talks about casey getting angry at george or deciding she hated him or something to that effect that I cant find right now.. but i remember reading.... and it had to do with tales jose was telling her..

 

[KarmaGet'em]

Ok.. as you guys know ive been reading the ucky book.. and in reading it some things about the whole GA / ca/ casey thing..

(the items in quotes are from the book)

it is obvious to me early on that jose hated GA, its obvious it stems from this...


In reading in the book .. and i will have to find more examples..as i can and save them
but this is what he said about trying to bail casey out..





this brought to mind to me casey and her comment in a jail visit about them passing by or passing up on an opportunity to get her out....

The whole thing to me is this.. first off.. we dont know if any of the above is true.. as look at the source.. butt
where in the heck would the A's get 50 grand for the deposit.. and what second mortage company in their right mind would have loaned them the money with neither of them working...
casey and her stealing had already tapped all their money..

I personally believe (after reading the book) that Jose got angry at the A;'s early on and did his best to put as big of wedge between them all as he could..
there are many times in the book where he talks about telling casey things they did or didnt do.. I think he egged on her anger at them..

there is one point in the book when he talks about casey getting angry at george or deciding she hated him or something to that effect that I cant find right now.. but i remember reading.... and it had to do with tales jose was telling her..

I have my doubts on how true this is...
The part you quoted that said:

“He’s my husband,” said Cindy. “He’s half owner of the house. I have to respect his wishes.” Angry as I could be, I went to see Casey. I told her that George was preventing her from getting out of jail.

I don't buy it. I thought the house was solely in Cindy's name? Poetic license?

 

[logicalgirl]

Ok.. as you guys know ive been reading the ucky book.. and in reading it some things about the whole GA / ca/ casey thing..

(the items in quotes are from the book)

it is obvious to me early on that jose hated GA, its obvious it stems from this...


In reading in the book .. and i will have to find more examples..as i can and save them
but this is what he said about trying to bail casey out..





this brought to mind to me casey and her comment in a jail visit about them passing by or passing up on an opportunity to get her out....

The whole thing to me is this.. first off.. we dont know if any of the above is true.. as look at the source.. butt
where in the heck would the A's get 50 grand for the deposit.. and what second mortage company in their right mind would have loaned them the money with neither of them working...
casey and her stealing had already tapped all their money..

I personally believe (after reading the book) that Jose got angry at the A;'s early on and did his best to put as big of wedge between them all as he could..
there are many times in the book where he talks about telling casey things they did or didnt do.. I think he egged on her anger at them..

there is one point in the book when he talks about casey getting angry at george or deciding she hated him or something to that effect that I cant find right now.. but i remember reading.... and it had to do with tales jose was telling her..

You will remember from the early jail tapes George encouraged her to get another lawyer...he didn't trust Baez...and didn't they already have a second mortgage on that house?