Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #14

[mitzi]

I watched until CA kissed GA, I couldn't stand listening to her any more. She still makes me sick. So baby Caylee's one goal in her way too short life was make CA and GA happy? Seems a little backwards to me. I would think it would be their goal to make baby Caylee happy.

I agree! I also watched until Cindy took GA's head in her hands and kissed him, immitating Caylee kissing "CeCe". Gah! I also got tired of hearing ( in this video you spoke of), Cindy's masses of jewelry clinking together as she moved her hands. I just can't stomach the woman anymore!

 

[HMSHood]

I have to wonder if Casey Anthony is trying to repress something from her childhood. It came to my mind in light of Jerry Sandusky as he is highly cheerful and sociable in nature. It is possible that he too may have been abused. It can also be said of Lori Drew, Diane Downs, Betty Broderick, Gertrude Baniszewski, South Hadley 6, Jennifer Petkov, Dharun Ravi, Fred Phelps, Seung-Hui Cho, and Pol Pot. Looks like they too are trying to repress something.

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[skbsoccermom]

I've wondered for a long time if HHJP's appeal phobia wasn't a great part of this perfect storm. But I don't think he steered the jury anywhere. After watching the entire trial (and a few parts of it several times!) I am left with the overall impression that he went easy on the defense team.

I will be the first to admit that my opinion is of small worth as I have no credentials whatsoever ~ legal or otherwise. But I do have enough common sense to know when a person is not living up to their reputation. It's my opinion that HHJP built a reputation of no nonsense, by-the-book, high expectations of all participants when he held court. I felt he excused Jose and team from living up to his normal standards.

For example he wouldn't allow the prosecution to present the jury with a sniff test of the overwhelming scent of decomposition present in Casey's car trunk. (Remember that can?) He barred this, as I recall, because he thought it would create a situation wherein the jury would actually become witnesses themselves. But, in my opinion, he contradicted this when he allowed the defense to pass the velveeta cheese container around ~ (actually hand-to-hand from one juror to another) and then allowed them to comment on smell. (Lol, please don't make me go in search of a link ~ can anyone else reading also remember and verify this?)

So yes; while I don't think he was even-handed when dealing with the prosecution and defense, I would hate to actually call it steering the jury but I can sure see how that might well be the end result.

Thank you for your thought provoking post, Mrs G Norris. :blowkiss:

Yes, he allowed them to pass around some empty wrappers, and the talking heads were saying that some of the jurors took a wiff, turned their heads away and wrinkled their noses as if the smell were nasty. Given that we had a bunch of non-thinkers who didn't want to convict, that may have been confirmation to them that the trash was the source of the odor. After all, baez said so, and they apparently believed everything he said. The part about the trunk still smelling 3 years later went unheard ... probably because jeff said it.
I agree that jury selection was very rushed. At one point, he threatened to go to the homeless shelter next door and bring in jurors! I couldn't believe my ears. He was all about staying within the budget and doing everything as quickly as possible. He also gave those jurors the all-star, VIP treatment, and I think some of them (and you know who I mean) developed quite the ego. In jeff's book he said one of them shook their empty water bottle to signal the baliff to get him more water. They were there to do a civic duty, not to be pampered and treated like royalty. Every time I talk about that bunch, I feel my blood pressure rising.

 

[claudicici]

I know many of you see the fault in the jury or the judge,but honestly if I would have only known what the defense and the prosecution presented I 'm not sure what I would have believed.The prosecution was all about "where was Caylee?" and a bunch of scientific mumbo jumbo that would have bored me as well.The defense told a story that I may have believed if I wouldn't have known all these facts from here.If only the prosecution would have laid out the timeline it would have been so obvious,I have no doubt Casey would have been convicted.
I do believe however something happened to that girl.When she made those searches in March 08 she was looking at self defense ,hand to hand combat before she looked at how to make chloroform and weapons out of household items.Those searches were not about Caylee IMO.

 

[Desdemona]

I haaaaate that I'm thinking this, because I looooved JudgeBP, but I'm wondering if his fear of an appeal led him to steer the jury towards the defense's argument (in an erring on the side of caution 'kind of a way') just before deliberations. Call it a nagging doubt.

In revisiting the judge's charge to the jury, I didn't see any pro-defense slant. However, IMO the jury did not properly deliberate, nor did they IMO follow the instructions they were given (though I'm sure some here will disagree). Why remains a mystery to me. Again, JMO.

Probably neither here nor there, but on your topic of JBP erring on the side of caution, JBP was serving as chairman of the now-ended Florida Innocence Commission at the time. Much of the work of the commission paralleled the kinds of issues in the trial.

Florida Innocence Commission
http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/innocence.shtml

No idea what pressures he may have felt consciously or subconsciously in addition to the normal caution that goes with a death penalty trial. He did seem to be operating under an abundance of caution. Who wouldn't, presiding over a huge circus of a case like this -- a death penalty case with all eyes watching?

 

[Desdemona]

And when was JB hospitalized with that stomach problem? :waitasec:

Stomach problem:


Feb 14-15, 2009 JB "hospitalized over the weekend" as reported Monday 2/16.


Feb 10 2009 was Caylee's Memorial Service.


Oh, and Lee got himself an attorney ~Dec 29, 2008.


These can go along with the Dec 2008 - Feb 2009 'possibly staged suicide attempt? speculation' timeline...
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Links:
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/casey-anthonys-attorney-jose-baez-hospitalized/nJrZJ/
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/anthony-family-speaks-at-emotional-caylee-memorial/nJqpJ/
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/articles/ot/both/2008/12/29/Lee_Anthony_Hires_Attorney.html

 

[Desdemona]

Hmm. Interesting. There was an interview George & Cindy did, maybe for GMA? I forget, where Cindy had to make George's suicide attempt all about her. I remember her saying something like nobody knows she was suicidal too, and Casey talked her out of it. I'll have to dig up that old interview and watch their body language.

edited to add, is this the interview? watching it now
Grandparents Planned Suicides - YouTube

In this GMA video posted upthread by Gnatcatcher, how odd (as in hinky) is it that Cindy claims she considered suicide and wrote suicide notes in July and August 2008, due to Caylee being gone? That was months before Caylee's remains were discovered down the street, back during the time when Cindy was all over the airwaves swearing Caylee was alive, promising to knock on every door, and berating LE for not looking for a live Caylee.

Not saying there was no justification for her feeling suicidal if she indeed did. Just that the logic seems off.

Your driving mission is to locate your beloved missing granddaughter, whom you know to be alive; to bring her home where she belongs and thereby exonerate your falsely accused daughter. So you decide to accomplish this by.... committing suicide?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H88ZUJy8VY&feature=fvst"]Grandparents Planned Suicides - YouTube[/ame]

:shakehead: I'll never understand.

 

[kkdj]

Oh please!
Here's what I think! Jose and the Anthony's became aware of some Internet searches re suicide, so somebody had to be suicidal. Frankly, I see this whole trial as one big play. So embarrassing!
Perjury is a crime! George and Cindy perjured themselves.
For their murderous daughter!
Imo

 

[krkrjx]

I do not believe there was a "staged" suicide attempt.

I can easily accept that George was distraught over the entire situation, i.e., Caylee was missing, and IMO he knew she was dead. He knew Casey had killed her, but at that time I believe it was very difficult for his mind to process that Casey had deliberately murdered her child. His comment about things having "snowballed out of control" has, IMO, been taken way out of context. I think George was in his mind trying to figure out what happened that resulted in his granddaughter being dead at the hand of her mother and in his reach for an answer he steered toward it had to be some kind of accident or chain of events where things just got out of control. IOW, he was in a state of mind where all he could accept was this being anything but murder.

In that state of mind, George probably began thinking of many instances where he felt like a failure as both a dad and a granddad. I do not think it is too far out there to consider that a person feeling that way might consider suicide.

George's suicide attempt was not a fool proof method, obviously, but often a person can feel such despair that they feel suicide is their only out, while still wishing there were another way. For many, times of despair have led to a suicide attempt, but not a suicide success.

I do not recall any searches for "suicide." Are there any documented? Because from what I have read, there were none--there were clicks on links that mention suicide, but not an actual search for suicide. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Steely Dan]

Emus sleep?

Very well thought out post. Thank you. I agree that his Honor might have bent over backwards the wrong way at times.

Also, I recently went back over some old you tube videos of the jurors interviews. And also read some old articles. I had forgotten what a darn hurry the judge was in. That was his number one priority. SPEED in picking this jury. So he took a lot of shortcuts and I think it showed in the end. He threw people into the jury pool that had no business deliberating a capital murder case. And on top of it, he gave the attorneys very little leeway in scoping out the jurors. They had to take the dregs and could only knock out the worst of the worst.

I reread some of the weird things some of the jurors said and he glossed over everything and accepted everyone. JMO

I think HHJBP was like most people, he thought the trial was a slam dunk. So he bent over backwards for the defense in order to keep the reasons for a retrial nonexistent.

I have to wonder if Casey Anthony is trying to repress something from her childhood. It came to my mind in light of Jerry Sandusky as he is highly cheerful and sociable in nature. It is possible that he too may have been abused. It can also be said of Lori Drew, Diane Downs, Betty Broderick, Gertrude Baniszewski, South Hadley 6, Jennifer Petkov, Dharun Ravi, Fred Phelps, Seung-Hui Cho, and Pol Pot. Looks like they too are trying to repress something.

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I think those people suffer from narcissism and the birth defect of psychopathy. JMO

 

[magnolia]

Oh please!
Here's what I think! Jose and the Anthony's became aware of some Internet searches re suicide, so somebody had to be suicidal. Frankly, I see this whole trial as one big play. So embarrassing!
Perjury is a crime! George and Cindy perjured themselves.
For their murderous daughter!
Imo

BBM Absolutely~It all falls into place now. He played his part very well.IMO

 

[atthelake]

I hope it gets sent to every news station JB has been on recently trying to prove his info is right and AZ's and JWG's is wrong. Then I hope they all call him back and call him out. One can only hope.

Strawberry is good at that, lol!

 

[grammieto5]

I haaaaate that I'm thinking this, because I looooved JudgeBP, but I'm wondering if his fear of an appeal led him to steer the jury towards the defense's argument (in an erring on the side of caution 'kind of a way') just before deliberations. Call it a nagging doubt.

Hey Mrs. N, Good morning I've had some of the same thoughts about JP :-( In the beginning I had so much respect for him, I thought his behavior was a little weird during jury selection, he seemed more interested in just getting someone, anyone on this jury, but I still respected him, as the trial went on I started feeling different. And when I saw him smile at FCA after she looked him up and down when he passed in front of her, I thought what was that all about! I think JP did more harm than good in this trial. JP let JB get away with way too much, time after time.
moo

 

[grammieto5]

Oh please!
Here's what I think! Jose and the Anthony's became aware of some Internet searches re suicide, so somebody had to be suicidal. Frankly, I see this whole trial as one big play. So embarrassing!
Perjury is a crime! George and Cindy perjured themselves.
For their murderous daughter!
Imo

YEP! I agree! Everything the A's including Mallory and JB did was just rehearsals for the big play/trial. They all played their part perfectly.
I'm still shocked no charges have been brought against CA :/

 

[atthelake]

Clarification?. JB found searches for foolproof suffIcation that had a subset of a suicide page, so he planned ahead to point out suicide was primary search reason for the foolproof suffIcation to create doubt?

Oh please!
Here's what I think! Jose and the Anthony's became aware of some Internet searches re suicide, so somebody had to be suicidal. Frankly, I see this whole trial as one big play. So embarrassing!
Perjury is a crime! George and Cindy perjured themselves.
For their murderous daughter!
Imo

 

[zippitydoda]

That emu looks drunk.... tell em' to lay off the sauce....

 

[jane the dood]

Couldn't resist...

 

[magnolia]

YEP! I agree! Everything the A's including Mallory and JB did was just rehearsals for the big play/trial. They all played their part perfectly.
I'm still shocked no charges have been brought against CA :/

I don't too much buy the "few family members of a defendant", are ever charged with perjury opinions. I know of two cases right off the top of my head. The State has to be willing to charge them. I have no other choice than to believe the State of Florida just did not want to charge Cindy. It would be hard to convince me they did not have a good case. IMO

 

[krkrjx]

I don't too much buy the "few family members of a defendant", are ever charged with perjury opinions. I know of two cases right off the top of my head. The State has to be willing to charge them. I have no other choice than to believe the State of Florida just did not want to charge Cindy. It would be hard to convince me they did not have a good case. IMO

Maybe the SA felt a perjury charge might look like sour grapes after losing the murder case. I think it was a wrong decision to not charge her with perjury because of the negative message that sends. But if they had charged her, there would have been family members who would have lied to save Cindy.

Likely the SA not wanting to look like they were bullying the grandmother of a dead grandchild was their main consideration. They gave Cindy too much credit in the bereavement department, IMO.

 

[AZlawyer]

I do not believe there was a "staged" suicide attempt.

I can easily accept that George was distraught over the entire situation, i.e., Caylee was missing, and IMO he knew she was dead. He knew Casey had killed her, but at that time I believe it was very difficult for his mind to process that Casey had deliberately murdered her child. His comment about things having "snowballed out of control" has, IMO, been taken way out of context. I think George was in his mind trying to figure out what happened that resulted in his granddaughter being dead at the hand of her mother and in his reach for an answer he steered toward it had to be some kind of accident or chain of events where things just got out of control. IOW, he was in a state of mind where all he could accept was this being anything but murder.

In that state of mind, George probably began thinking of many instances where he felt like a failure as both a dad and a granddad. I do not think it is too far out there to consider that a person feeling that way might consider suicide.

George's suicide attempt was not a fool proof method, obviously, but often a person can feel such despair that they feel suicide is their only out, while still wishing there were another way. For many, times of despair have led to a suicide attempt, but not a suicide success.

I do not recall any searches for "suicide." Are there any documented? Because from what I have read, there were none--there were clicks on links that mention suicide, but not an actual search for suicide. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

There were no "suicide" searches. The only interesting search on June 16 was for "fool-proof suffication."

And IMO George's suicide attempt was not staged to explain the search--if it were, it would have been an attempt involving suffocation.