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It has been 6 months since TS was murdered. The Grand Jury in Fl is convened for six months at a time. If MS isn't arrested in the next few weeks then I don't think he will be. They've had plenty of time for forensics of all sorts to come back. I'm afraid he might just get away with this. It happens. Justice then sometimes comes in other ways. It's the little girls I feel for the most. Can someone like Mark be all of the things we know he is but still be a decent dad?

You ask “Can someone like Mark be all of the things we know he is but still be a decent dad?“

Teresa described Mark as “an incredible husband” and “an amazing father to our girls”, according to her 11/17/2012 acceptance speech for the Fort Myers Chamber of Commerce Women in Business Apex Award:
Apex speech: Top 5 finalist: Nov. 17, 2012
EXCERPT: “People ask me how I find time to do it all. I have an incredible husband who has been an amazing father to our girls. Mark, you are my rock.”

Full speech at these links:
http://www.drteresasievers.com/apex.php#.Vo7HovkrKM9
http://ourmothershome.com/website/2012/11/omh-board-president-nominated-for-apex-award/
 
Hoping to get info on the Van, and why it's still in LE' possession.
Could MS have had a tracker on the Van that CWW used for tracking
TS' arrival time?
I am so curious about that van as well!! Wouldn't they have had time to get every thing they need out of it by now? Is it possible that LE released it to MS but he said he didn't want it back so it's elsewhere and never returned to the home?
 
You ask “Can someone like Mark be all of the things we know he is but still be a decent dad?“

Teresa described Mark as “an incredible husband” and “an amazing father to our girls”, according to her 11/17/2012 acceptance speech for the Fort Myers Chamber of Commerce Women in Business Apex Award:
Apex speech: Top 5 finalist: Nov. 17, 2012
EXCERPT: “People ask me how I find time to do it all. I have an incredible husband who has been an amazing father to our girls. Mark, you are my rock.”

Full speech at these links:
http://www.drteresasievers.com/apex.php#.Vo7HovkrKM9
http://ourmothershome.com/website/2012/11/omh-board-president-nominated-for-apex-award/

And that reminds me of Sandra Bullock's acceptance speech praising her rock of a husband (ew) :(

Michael Skakel, among many other murderers, was tried and convicted of murder decades afterwards (and he had family and money behind him)

If MS had nothing to do with the murder of the mother of his children and continues to brainwash the girls against her side of the family, then HELL NO he can't be considered a decent father.

The fact that MS put his sexual (or otherwise) needs above his daughters' welfare, HELL NO, he can't be considered a decent father. It goes deeper than infidelity.

If MS murdered her, then HELL NO he can't be considered any kind of father other than biologically.

Pretty much, my answer is no.

:drumroll:
 
What if he's innocent?

Highly unlikely IMO. What if he is not caught would be a more suitable question to ask THAN what if he's innocent- again my strong HO.
Moo!!!!!!!!!!


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where is local news LIVE in Florida right now?
 
He still is innocent - until proven guilty. Evidence will show one way or the other.

-Nin

Just for clarity, it's "presumed innocent until proven guilty." And I know I'm stating the obvious, but that means nothing more than a court of law presumes innocence until guilt is proven. Obviously a person who commits a crime is guilty upon commission of the act, it just must be proven to convict. But the absence of a conviction by no means equates to that person being innocent.

Mark Sievers is not innocent. MOO
 
He still is innocent - until proven guilty. Evidence will show one way or the other.

-Nin

I always like to make the point, though, that the presumption of innocence is just a criminal court thing. He may be innocent, but if he ordered the hit, he's guilty now and will continue to be guilty regardless of what happens in court. Conversely, if he's innocent, he will continue to be innocent even if wrongly pronounced guilty by a court of law. Also, only the judge and jury are required to presume innocence; the public is free to come to their own conclusions.
 
Just for clarity, it's "presumed innocent until proven guilty." And I know I'm stating the obvious, but that means nothing more than a court of law presumes innocence until guilt is proven. Obviously a person who commits a crime is guilty upon commission of the act, it just must be proven to convict. But the absence of a conviction by no means equates to that person being innocent.

Mark Sievers is not innocent. MOO

Great minds lol...
 
It has been 6 months since TS was murdered. The Grand Jury in Fl is convened for six months at a time. If MS isn't arrested in the next few weeks then I don't think he will be. They've had plenty of time for forensics of all sorts to come back. I'm afraid he might just get away with this. It happens. Justice then sometimes comes in other ways. It's the little girls I feel for the most. Can someone like Mark be all of the things we know he is but still be a decent dad?

Until the grand jury indicts CWW and JR on first degree murder charges, I won't consider the possibility of MS getting away with this. I think their cases may take longer than usual for indictments because of the probability of witnesses in Missouri being subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury in Florida. I'd imagine JR's girlfriend and AW's mother are absolutes. Let's not give up hope quite yet.
 
Let's use TSh for Taylor S.

Reminder: Name variations are not allowed. We don't need dozens of posts explaining new name variations.
 
Does anyone get the feeling the family photos are staged around the house...I know that seems odd to say but..when I was a kid I never had pictures of my parents on my dresser...and as an adult...I never had pictures of myself, my husband and our kids in the bathroom...jmo
 
Just for clarity, it's "presumed innocent until proven guilty." And I know I'm stating the obvious, but that means nothing more than a court of law presumes innocence until guilt is proven. Obviously a person who commits a crime is guilty upon commission of the act, it just must be proven to convict. But the absence of a conviction by no means equates to that person being innocent.

Mark Sievers is not innocent. MOO

THIS. ^^^

I always like to make the point, though, that the presumption of innocence is just a criminal court thing. He may be innocent, but if he ordered the hit, he's guilty now and will continue to be guilty regardless of what happens in court. Conversely, if he's innocent, he will continue to be innocent even if wrongly pronounced guilty by a court of law. Also, only the judge and jury are required to presume innocence; the public is free to come to their own conclusions.

Ha! I was juggling about 100 balls and KNEW you'd make sure this was clarified. Thanks to you and Greater Than! :highfive:

We ain't in a courtroom and none of us would be eligible to be seated on the juries for any of these defendants, including potential defendants. We are free to use our own deductive reasoning and draw our own personal conclusions.

Casey Anthony was acquitted by a jury but I KNOW she is guilty and nothing will ever change my mind about that
 
Maybe it was anonymous but the 77 had a significance which would only be known to MS. Just a guess...

I figured it was a nice gesture to pay the fees, to insure that the recipient would receive 75 net and not 75 less fees. I do that with paypal donations since they make that option so easy. Could be anyone's guess, though.
 
Iwonder if any of the life insurance companies would payout to the girls.
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Doubtful (ETA: for an indefinite period) imo and here's why.

(IIRC from Ins Pol. thread & links) the policies on Dr TS's life named MS as primary benef and the Dau's as contingent benef's.
If Dr TS died from vehicle crash, & death cert stated MoD = accident, ins co wd/pay all $ to primary (MS), no $ to contingent (Dau's).
Contingent benef's rcv $ only if primary benef pre-deceases the insured (Dr TS) or is otherwise disqualified from rcvg $, which he wd/be if convicted of her murder (or perhaps some other crim offense, such as manslaughter in causing her death).

LI co may hold death benefit $ for undetermined period, because Dr TS's death cert says MoD = homicide and the investigating LE agency has advised LI co's that (paraphrasing --->) MS the primary benef is a POI or suspect in her death, thus disqualifying him under FL 'Slayer Statute,' from receiving the death benef $, if convicted.


So, if LI co 'skips over' MS as primary benef and pays $ to Dau's (or their guardians/ custodians) as contingent benef's, and
if, say, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 yrs from now ---
- MS is not tried in connection w her death, or
- MS is tried and found not guilty,
then LI co would be legally obligated to pay MS as primary benef all the $ it already pd Dau's.
When MS would complete claim forms & send to LI co, it would (virtually certainly) refuse to pay, and when MS would sue, LI co could not use as a defense “we already gave $ to Dau’s.” Anyone think a LI co wants to pay two times? No, heck no.


Bonus:
To prevent paying twice, LI co may file an interpleader action* in ct, basically saying - a life ins policy on this decedent (Dr TS) named MS as primary benef and Dau 1 & Dau 2 as contingent benef's; death ctf states MoD = homicide; we/the co cannot determine who to pay, so co is tendering the funds (enclosing a check for the death benefit amt, payable to the ct) and pls, court, you figure out who should receive it. Then the benef's are notified of action and can file their responses w ct. After hearings, maybe full blown trial, judge (or jury) eventually decides who sh/receive $ and releases funds/issue ck. to that person. JM2cts.

Welcoming W/S legal & life ins professionals & others to correct or clarify ^. Thx in adv.

ETA: More discussion in the Life Ins Policy thread.
________________________________________________
** "Interpleader is civil procedure that allows a plaintiff to initiate a lawsuit in order to compel two or more other parties to litigate a dispute. An interpleader action originates when the plaintiff holds property on behalf of another, but does not know to whom the property should be transferred. It is often used to resolve disputes arising under insurance contracts." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpleadervet
 
I hate to say it, but I agree with you Frigga. I would think they would have all the forensic testing back by now and they still don't have enough on Mark to arrest him? Frustrating! And not only that, neither of the killers in jail have had their charges bumped up to 1st degree.....ugghhhh! Even if JR starts talking it may not be enough to convict MS unless MS spoke to JR directly about the murder of TS, which it doesn't seem he did. It's easy to convict MS in the court of public opinion, but if LE doesn't have any tricks up their sleeves it's going to be much harder in a court of law.

And the mental manipulation he is applying to those children is disgusting. How dare he poison their impressionable minds against TS's family. Not only did they lose their mother but now they are being forced to lose a grandmother, aunts, uncles and cousins that love them. I'm sure he is brainwashing the girls to look at that whole side of the family as the enemy. JMO, and I do hope I'm wrong.

Trust me, Sheriff Mike Scott has plenty of "tricks up his sleeve." If you recall, he previously said this case had more evidence than he or other LE had ever seen. The public could not understand what was taking so long. It has become clear now with over 29,000 pages and now 1,500 photos in the early releases that LE had their hands full to say the least. No doubt they are withholding evidence against MS based on the "ongoing investigation" exception to the Fla. sunshine laws. Have no fear...Sheriff Scott will NOT allow MS to escape.
 
Trust me, Sheriff Mike Scott has plenty of "tricks up his sleeve." If you recall, he previously said this case had more evidence than he or other LE had ever seen. The public could not understand what was taking so long. It has become clear now with over 29,000 pages and now 1,500 photos in the early releases that LE had their hands full to say the least. No doubt they are withholding evidence against MS based on the "ongoing investigation" exception to the Fla. sunshine laws. Have no fear...Sheriff Scott will NOT allow MS to escape.

Yep, and I'm very impressed with how thorough the crime scene investigation was. And that's just what we've seen! There's plenty more evidence we don't know about yet. But the thoroughness of the pictures, interviews, etc. that we've seen gives me hope that Mark's days as a free man are numbered.
 


Doubtful (ETA: for an indefinite period) imo and here's why.

(IIRC from Ins Pol. thread & links) the policies on Dr TS's life named MS as primary benef and the Dau's as contingent benef's.
If Dr TS died from vehicle crash, & death cert stated MoD = accident, ins co wd/pay all $ to primary (MS), no $ to contingent (Dau's).
Contingent benef's rcv $ only if primary benef pre-deceases the insured (Dr TS) or is otherwise disqualified from rcvg $, which he wd/be if convicted of her murder (or perhaps some other crim offense, such as manslaughter in causing her death).

LI co may hold death benefit $ for undetermined period, because Dr TS's death cert says MoD = homicide and the investigating LE agency has advised LI co's that (paraphrasing --->) MS the primary benef is a suspect in her death, thus disqualifying him under FL 'Slayer Statute,' from receiving the death benef $, if convicted.


So, if LI co 'skips over' MS as primary benef and pays $ to Dau's (or their guardians/ custodians) as contingent benef's, and
if, say, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 yrs from now ---
- MS is not tried in connection w her death, or
- MS is tried and found not guilty,
then LI co would be legally obligated to pay MS as primary benef all the $ it already pd Dau's.
When MS would complete claim forms & send to LI co, it would (virtually certainly) refuse to pay, and when MS would sue, LI co could not use as a defense “we already gave $ to Dau’s.” Anyone think a LI co wants to pay two times? No, heck no.


Bonus:
To prevent paying twice, LI co may file an interpleader action* in ct, basically saying - a life ins policy on this decedent (Dr TS) named MS as primary benef and Dau 1 & Dau 2 as contingent benef's; death ctf states MoD = homicide; we/the co cannot determine who to pay, so co is tendering the funds (enclosing a check for the death benefit amt, payable to the ct) and pls, court, you figure out who should receive it. Then the benef's are notified of action and can file their responses w ct. After hearings, maybe full blown trial, judge (or jury) eventually decides who sh/receive $ and releases funds/issue ck. to that person. JM2cts.

Welcoming W/S legal & life ins professionals & others to correct or clarify ^. Thx in adv.

ETA: More discussion in the Life Ins Policy thread.
________________________________________________
** "Interpleader is civil procedure that allows a plaintiff to initiate a lawsuit in order to compel two or more other parties to litigate a dispute. An interpleader action originates when the plaintiff holds property on behalf of another, but does not know to whom the property should be transferred. It is often used to resolve disputes arising under insurance contracts." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpleadervet
Thanks for the logical explanation. I was hoping for some magical loophole.[emoji6]

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