Wouldn't you think he would want to stay around and talk to the police a little more about a murderer being out there and giving them any info he could to help them besides the information he gave them from that morning? Twenty minutes after finding her "Okay, lets go".snowqueen said:To answer a couple of questions:
I see absolutely no reason for the Ramseys to have accompanied JonBenet to the morgue. They probably did not know when she was taken since they left (were instructed to leave) the house shortly after she was found.....and she wasn't taken out of the house until around 8:00 p.m. Snowqueen, no one is saying the proper ettiquette is to accompany your child to the morge, I think what we are all saying is most people, most mothers, most fathers, would not be able to leave her. I have said this before but it warrants repeating, it would be more like the Rhett Butler and Bonnie scene with most people. It would. We are talking about a six year old, 40 pound tiny child. Her hands still look like babies' hands. In my opinion, it is going to take quite a bit of medication to get that family away from that child. They are not going to leave willing. Not in that short amount of time.
That is if they are innocent.
Why was John trying to make arrangements to fly to Atlanta? To pull his family together? Patsy's parents and sisters, John's children, his brother, many of their friends lived in Atlanta. A flight to Atlanta was no more to them than a short trip in the car is to me.
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Would not be able to leave her?
Perhaps John realized after having lost one daughter that death is final....and other than answer questions there wasn't much they could do.
Maybe he was thinking that they had provided enough info to keep the PD busy until they could get JonBenet buried and back to Boulder.
And maybe - just maybe - if the police had acted in a more professional manner they would have returned to Boulder immediately following the funeral/before going on CNN.........but I think Eller gave them some idea of where the focus was being placed by threatening to withhold JonBenet for burial.
Perhaps John realized after having lost one daughter that death is final....and other than answer questions there wasn't much they could do.
Maybe he was thinking that they had provided enough info to keep the PD busy until they could get JonBenet buried and back to Boulder.
And maybe - just maybe - if the police had acted in a more professional manner they would have returned to Boulder immediately following the funeral/before going on CNN.........but I think Eller gave them some idea of where the focus was being placed by threatening to withhold JonBenet for burial.
No one was returning to Boulder. I think we both know that. They were trying to leave as quickly as possible.snowqueen said:
They had no intention of returning to Boulder and had no intention of talking to anyone at all. And why would someone who believes a murderer came in and killed their daughter, why would those people approximately one hour after finding the note let their son go off to their friend's house instead of keeping him with them in a house full of police. Why do you think they would do that?
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snowqueen said:
Yeah...a short trip in the car/plane away from helping the LE find the killer of 'that' child. Apparently monitoring murdering pedophile kidnappers pissed off at John can't touch him on the way to the airport, or at the airport. It's like magic....
Poor Patsy, in DOI she tells us how she waited months for the cops, fifteen minutes away, to call her and let her know what was happening with the investigation.....but when Pasta Jay was arrested for attacking the reporter Patsy immediately drove to the Boulder Police Station to pick Pasta Jay up. Guess she forgot to ask how the investigation was going with finding her daughter's brutal killer.
Some invisible wall kept Patsy from dialing the Boulder cops and ask if they'd found her daughter's killer. Even at the police station Patsy was mysteriously kept from inquiring....the LE cops must call Patsy first!
Or Patsy simply forgot to ask when she went to pick up Pasta Jay...heck any old parent of a brutally murdered kid might forget to ask the cops, 'find the killer yet?', when they are picking up a friend in trouble at the police station.
Bet Patsy thought later, 'Doh! I've been waiting months to hear any information and can you believe I forgot to ask....Gee I sure hope the Boulder Police call me!
UK Guy I found the article you posted had many similarities to the murder of JonBenet.
I think TAKING the body and dumping it in a remote place would buy the kidnapper more time than hiding it in the home.
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snowqueen said:
You are correct....we are both expressing our opinions.
For me...I seen, read etc...everything since the day after the murder happened. The Ramseys did the opposite what all the other parents of murdered child did....they behaved as if they were guilty.
I bought their book DOI and the Ramseys said in the book, the proceeds were going to the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation....nothing on the Ramseys or the lawyers getting any money...the Foundation was to inherit the profits.
Well I guess I bought the only copy of the book for the Foundation did nothing to change child killer law or anything the Ramseys declared on numerous tv appearances....in fact the Foundation didn't get any money from the book for the Foundation only gave money away to the Ramsey's church and the Ramsey's kid's summercamp and bought computer equipment.
Plus the phone number and website listed in the book, for leads, was no longer working.
And John wanted to spend every last dime and the rest of his life finding the killer....is it just me, or do we see a conflict here?
LOL - My library has a copy so there must have been at least two copies sold.Show Me said:
I'm not at all familiar with the Foundation/income/distributions, etc.
Where did you get this information? I would be interested in reading more.
When you say the website/telephone was disconnected, when was that?
roseofsharon
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JR was making arrangements to fly to their home in
Charlebois (spelling ?) Michigan.
Charlebois (spelling ?) Michigan.
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snowqueen said:
Try ACR's fantastic website.
http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenet-foundations.htm
This is the Foundation that was set up as a memorial to honor JonBenet Ramsey
There are 130 documented references on this web page directly relating or connected in one way or another to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. The foundation was set up as the source of funding for the $100,000 reward being offered. In the Ramsey's book, "Death of Innocence," page 164/165 where the Ramsey are explaining the purpose of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Founation, they are quoted as, "Patsy and I guaranteed a reward of one hundred thousand dollars."
INCOME SOURCES TO THE FOUNDATION Included sources of monies pledged and possible donated contributions from friends and family, corporations and the general public. John and Patsy Ramsey pledged $15,000 PER YEAR for 1997, 1998 and 1999. There are no contributions of this scale from any source in any one of the three tax years listed.
The Ramseys friend/attorney Mike Bynum pledged profits from the resale of the Boulder house, Ramsey friend Linda McLean pledged all profits from the sale of her book when it was released August 21, 1998, Ramseys pledge profits from their hard back book released March 18, 2000 after legal expenses and ALL of the profits from their soft back (January 2001 edition) book. Ramseys book had a first printing of 300,000 copies. John Ramsey even said in August 2000 that one of his original plans was to sue the tabloids and donate the money to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. Although the Ramsey said there were no plans for fundraising, a Ramsey press release was issued in February 1997 giving a bank address in Colorado where public fund contributions could be sent. In March 26, 2000 an Internet poster who made a donation to the Foundation in Janaury received an e-mail from "PtsyR@aol.com" and signed by John Ramsey. That e-mail provided a new foundation address for donations as P.O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA 31139.
CONTACT INFORMATION TO HELP FIND THE KILLER: The Ramseys, in their book, "Death of Innocence," page 374 asks the public help to find the killer of their daughter and their contact/resource list includes the family web site as www.ramseyfamily.com (that no longer exists), an e-mail tip address of JonBenetinfo@aol.com (that returns mail as 'unknown'), a tip hotline telephone number (which was printed in error at publication and never corrected), and the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation legal tax address at P.O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA 31139 is listed in the book as where to mail confidential tips.
COMMITTMENTS TO THE FOUNDATION: Included the $100,000 reward, plans to offer a grant program, plans for an outreach program called SHOES that would advocate legislation, SHOES would offer resources and rewards, SHOES would use tools to track pedophiles, SHOES would put reward funds in place, SHOES would advocate child murders to a federal offense. John Ramsey said in an online ABC Chat "In Their Own Words" on March 20, 2000 that he wants the Foundation to protect children against predators, through legislation and that he wants child murders to be a federal offense. Where are the grant programs? Where is the SHOES organization?
Early documentation shows that the Ramsey family web site at www.ramseyfamily.com displayed press releases as well as ads and flyers the Ramseys sent out in search for their daughter's killer in the spring and fall of 1997. Later the web site was used to advertise the $100,000 reward. In December 26, 2001, Ramsey attorney, Lin Wood is quoted in the media as saying that the Ramsey family no longer has the reward money. By November 25, 2002, the Ramsey family, via their attorney Lin Wood stated they will no longer communicate with one Susan Bennett whose web site URL is listed in the Ramseys books and was on their Ramsey family web site as the main source for the garotte illustrations. By 2003 the Ramsey family web site no longer existed and the domain at www.ramseyfamily.com expired April 19, 2004.
Patsy Ramsey said in August 2000 during the Atlanta interviews that she had never even seen the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation books or financial records. The Foundation was opened on March 31, 1997 and Patsy Ramsey is listed as the President of the Foundation. The "Bylaws of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation state, "the Board of Directors shall annually prepare a report, verified by the President and Treasurer or by a majority of the Directors, to be prescribed at the annual meeting of the Board of Directors, showing in appropiate detail the following: (a) the assets and liabilities, including the donated funds, of the Corporation as of the end of the fiscal year." The Board of Directors consisted of John and Patsy Ramsey.
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How John and Patsy loved to go on tv and get there kudos boasting of all the grand things they were going to do to make a better world. 'Look at us, such good Christians doing great things for the world.' Yet look at the track record and you see how shallow and meaningless their daughter's foundation and tip line was to them.
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I think the foundation deserves it's own thread....off to start a new thread.
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Anthony Shore was not convicted until 2004. If you read the Anthony Shore thread, in this discussion, it IS chilling. If you believe that an intruder is responsible for JB's death, as I do, he is your poster boy. One would think, however, that he is in codis by now, and has has been checked out -- however a request to Boulder PD, late last year drew no response at all.IrishMist said:
1. Killed by garrote
2. Killed and molested children
3. Cruel, high IQ, arrogant. controlling, psychopath
4. SBTC (Southern Bell Lineman for many, many years) Would have used lineman rope and prusik knots to climb. The heavy rope in question in the bedroom would have been a familiar tool.
5. Total disdain for his father who abandoned the family ( note arrogant disdain for John Ramsey in the ransom note, the father figure).
ETC.
6. As an interesting aside, the last woman he lived with as quite young when he met and represented her as pianist at a talent pageant.
What doesn't fit or remains unknown:
He generally abducted and dumped his victims
Killed in the Texas area, as far as is known
We don't know if he has been run for a DNA match.
I'm hoping we will at least know, someday, if he has been run for a match. Maybe a tickle by several of us to Boulder PD would elicit a response!
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They could have found out,JR did ride along to the airport to pick up others,I believe...but he couldn't be bothered with JB?snowqueen said:
Escorting the child's body would be an act of love by a parent,just one of the few things left that can be done for a loved one.I know it was said that parents of murdered children are usually reluctant to leave ,and ususally cling to the child's body.
So for the R's trying to high- tail it out -of -town so soon raised a red flag to detectives,I'm sure.I know I've read there are certain things they look for.As I bet escorting or not escorting the child's body to the morgue would be looked at as well.
I think they didn't do it b/c they were trying to distance themselves from guilt they were feeling.
But,like I said earlier...JMO.
People do not normally escort a body to the morgue. Maybe to a funeral home, but not a morgue. IMO - This is just another way to point fingers at the Ramseys.
The Ramseys had been escorted out of their home shortly after JonBenet was found. The police wanted them away from the scene and did talk with the Ramseys that afternoon. So it's not like the police never got an opportunity to talk with them. They just didn't get what some people wanted, i.e., to separate them and "break them down." The BPD was their own worst enemy.
With regard to John wanting to go to Atlanta - that was where their families and a lot of their friends were and I'm sure he knew that's where JB would be buried. JMO
The Ramseys had been escorted out of their home shortly after JonBenet was found. The police wanted them away from the scene and did talk with the Ramseys that afternoon. So it's not like the police never got an opportunity to talk with them. They just didn't get what some people wanted, i.e., to separate them and "break them down." The BPD was their own worst enemy.
With regard to John wanting to go to Atlanta - that was where their families and a lot of their friends were and I'm sure he knew that's where JB would be buried. JMO
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"In his seventeen years as chief deputy medical examiner, Frank has had his hands on just about every unnatural death in the county some 4,500 cases since he started this job in 85. Fifty-two years old, mustachioed, sharp-eyed, with energetic brows and a badge at his hip, Frank investigates the scene of death, presides over the case, and, if need be, escorts the victims family down to the morgue to view the corpse."snowqueen said:
http://etude.uoregon.edu/spring2003/doa/index.html
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You cannot STOP families from going to the morgue IF they want to go. If only to wait outside the autopsy/examination room, to find out information about how the victim died. Now, if the mom and/or dad already KNEW how their daughter died...of course there wouldn't be any need to go, now would there?snowqueen said:
Snowqueen: The fact that John was making arrangements to leave the area 20 minutes after the finding of the body is just cold, period. He wants to get his family out of town; he also let Berke leave the house the morning of the 26th when JB was missing at approximatley 7:30 a.m. Would you do that or would you keep your son with you, among friends and police for his safety.snowqueen said:
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