Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #21

[Ruflossn]

This is my first post, as I have quietly read and ponder on all post. I am looking for or need assistance in constructing a definite timeline leading up to the murders. I have looked here and on other boards and I am shocked that no time line has been established. I am interested in the 24 hours leading up the incident. Anybody has any ideas or can point me in the right direction.

Yentis ~
Welcome to the thread. I have found that attempting to determine a definite time line has been an exercise in futility. The only thing I have ever been sure of was found in the autopsy reports. If you read the autopsies, you will notice that it is documented that both girls were "found" at 5:21 pm. The autopsy report does not list a TOD. (At least not that I could find). I always found it interesting that on the autopsy there was info regarding the date, location etc.. of when the deceased became "injured, ill" but, under the info for "time" it is listed as unknown. In my experience, there is usually a TOD determined from taking an anal temperature &/or liver temperature. It has always been my opinion that the girls were found almost immediately after being shot / killed. I wonder if that is why there has never been a TOD publicly announced. Also, iirc, the autopsy reports released to the public are not the complete results. Maybe the TOD was deliberately left out? As usual, there are a million questions that revolve around this case.

Again, welcome to this thread. I always enjoy reading new posters info and view points.

 

[little726]

This is what Hoppyfrog, regarding rumors on the Pat Kimmi case;

"And regarding rumors: if you have read a rumor, in your post you must label it as such and give a link. If you have heard a rumor, you must label it as such and state where you heard it."

Thank you,

Hoppy
moderator

 

[Shutterfly]

This is what Hoppyfrog, regarding rumors on the Pat Kimmi case;

"And regarding rumors: if you have read a rumor, in your post you must label it as such and give a link. If you have heard a rumor, you must label it as such and state where you heard it."

Thank you,

Hoppy
moderator

And with that...here we go....

A bit of history...
I haven't involved myself in this case in a year and a half I believe. I haven't so much as come to this thread. It drove me crazy and I had to step away. Taylor and Skyla are what brought me here to WS's. There was a time when I was up to my eyeballs in their case. And for those of you who don't remember me, I am NOT a local. I live about 1000 miles away and I have never set foot near the area where Taylor and Sklya were guned down. I had a dream about Taylor and Skyla, that's what got me hooked on this case. I won't discuss that dream in detail, I'm sorry. I don't believe in psychics, and for me to have had this dream has caused me much chaos within my soul because it was so real and at the time, I knew NOTHING about this case. I never did discuss this dream, except with one person. I have reason to believe that some of you may know who that person was. I use to talk to a few people, realtime, about this case. I hadn't in over a year. Until April 12th I believe it was....

Take this with a grain of salt until I can figure out how to prove ANY of it. I'm going to call it RUMOR, speculation...and it's okay if you just want to believe that I'm full if as well, until I can determine how to work this out satisfactorily in order that you might accept it as some form of truth. I know well how passionate those involved in this case are in solving it. I wouldn't play with any of you like that, I give you my word...nor would I risk my WS's account.

I got an email on April 14th. It was sent to an old email address that I never use, so it took me a couple days to find it. It was sent on April 12th. In the email, the sender asked me how I was, etc, and then it said this;

"I have a man with the OSBI that would seriously like to talk to you. Are you ready to pick this up again?
Call me. Please!"

I almost fell out of my chair. First, because she had obviously told an actual LE officer about this crazy dream I had. I was mortified thinking that this guy, if he existed, must think I'm a fruitloop. It was 2 am when I got the email so I called her later that day. Secondly, I hadn't spoken to this person at all in at least 14 months. So this just came out of a clear blue sky. This is what she told me as best I can remember.

She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.

She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.

It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.

*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.

*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?

So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....

 

[Ruflossn]

And with that...here we go....

A bit of history...

She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.

She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.

It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.

*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.

*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?

So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....

Hi Shutterfly~
I am aware of the dream you had.
It was shared with me by the person you are referencing.
I would start by trying to determine if the OSBI has an officer named, "Kurt".
I am a little concerned about the statement - "someone whom she believed to be OSBI". This makes me think the person's credentials were assumed and not verified.
Lastly, I would never give permission for someone to release my personal info.
I would request the officers phone # etc.......... and call him.

Take Care and it is nice to hear from you.

 

[wfgodot]

Shutterfly, while I never heard or read the entire scenario of your dream, I do recall reading your reference to the dream and an implied suggestion regarding a person possibly of interest, so to speak. (Wow, that seems like forever ago; I was still in San Antonio and reading as a guest here.) And nothing in my reading since then has caused me to eliminate that person as a very strong candidate. #1 in my book, that particular train of thought.

As for the "OSBI" guy, go in fear of people who contact you out of the blue and announce that the government wants to get ahold of you. (That's just a general rule, lol.) "Kurt" sounds like a figurative character and not a literal one and, as such, may have been the fictitious bait for a fishing expedition into the waters of your (and, by extension, others') knowledge of the case. Keep us posted if you get any calls please. And like Ruflossn says above, steer clear of giving personal info of course. I think the emailer and "OSBI guy" are the same person, with some male person playing The Voice of Kurt if a call does come.

 

[tapu]

A general thought after reading this:

Some of us, if we're lucky, run into one, maybe even two, good, good friends in life who will keep a confidence. These friends are pretty much never, ever online friends.

And that makes sense. The loyalty just doesn't feel the same, precisely because of the anonymity, I think.

Of course, it's a good thing to realize all around that pretty much anything you tell someone could very well got told somewhere, and that chain can go on and on.

Sorry for your disappointment and confusion, Shutterfly. --tapu

 

[little726]

I'm a little confused, shutterfly. Is this Kurt person somehow involved with Taylor and Skyla's death?

 

[wfgodot]

OSBI's Track Record Investigated After Criticism From Lawmaker
NewsOn6
---
The list of Oklahoma's unsolved homicides is lengthy. Pastor Carol Daniels was murdered in an Anadarko church. Taylor Paschal Placker and Skyla Whitaker were gunned down in Weleetka. The Denneys were shot to death in their Locust Grove home. Poteau bar owner Joe Neff was found dead near Pocola. Sam Sanders was killed in Fairland, his wife badly beaten. Three young girl scouts were murdered at camp in 1977 and the list goes on. All of those cases were investigated by the OSBI. All of them are unsolved.
---
When Representative Morrissette questioned the OSBI the agency called a news conference. Jessica Brown released some impressive statistics. The OSBI boasts an 89% homicide clearance rate over the past five years. That's much higher, they claim, than the national average. But what exactly is a homicide clearance rate?

"That is a homicide that, uh, someone's been arrested or charged. The suspect is dead or it was a homicide suicide," said Brown.

When questioned further about the rate Brown seemed confused and had to double check that what she had just said was correct.

"I think that's correct. I can look it up real quick if you'll hold on just a second," said Brown.

There are actually more reasons a homicide could be considered cleared. According to the OSBI a homicide is cleared when there's been an arrest, charges filed, if the investigation is complete but the District Attorney doesn't file charges, the suspect dies or other circumstances prevent prosecution.

"So it doesn't necessarily mean that the case has been solved," asked Jennifer Loren, with The Oklahoma Impact Team.

"I think what we're doing here is semantical a little bit, solved versus cleared. It may not be solved but it is cleared," said Brown.

So the real question remains: How many of OSBI's homicides have been solved? We asked for actual arrests over the past five years. Brown said she couldn't us get those numbers right away because she'd have to pull agents in off the streets in order to get us that data.
---

and much, much more, at
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12379331

 

[Pensfan]

I, unfortunately, lived 27 years around Atoka, OK. This area is very rural, poor, uneducated, and clannish; but these murders aren't from clan or drug retaliation. This is a random thrill killing and that’s why no crimes in this area have been seen like it before or since these murders. LE hasn’t been able to solve this crime because they have incorrectly profiled the killers. These killers are best friends and the “leader” or both have Disorganized Episodic Aggression. If LE would publish a list of these characteristics to everyone around this tiny town, the good ‘ole folk could identify these best friend killers (aged 16-25) very quickly. Here are the characteristics of Disorganized Episodic Aggression.

Ritualistic behavior
Attempts to conceal mental instability
Compulsivity
ADHD or ADD or Bipolar-biochemical symptoms
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Possible evidence of genetic disorder
Periodic search for psychiatric help
unreliability
untruthfulness
History of suicidal gesture
History of committing assault
Hypersexuality and/or abnormal sexual behavior
poor judgment
History of drug or alcohol abuse
Parents with history of chronic drug or alcohol abuse
Victim of childhood physical or mental abuse
Probably a result of an unwanted pregnancy
Unhappiness in childhood resulted in inability to find happiness and probably not to finish high school school
Extraordinary cruelty to animals
unable to follow any life plan
Attraction to arson without homicidal interest
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy

Here is an excellent article to read related to Disorganized Episodic Aggression. (Yes, I am an old psych nurse.)
http://www.ravenndragon.net/montgomery/csi/oconnortypology2.pdf

 

[LadyD'enah]

Some very interesting information there Pensfan - thank you. I'm curious to know, do you have an idea of who the killers are? Or is this all information you have deduced from studying the case?

 

[Pensfan]

Some very interesting information there Pensfan - thank you. I'm curious to know, do you have an idea of who the killers are? Or is this all information you have deduced from studying the case?

I have no idea of the identity of the murderers. I haven't lived in SE Oklahoma for many years.

I truly believe that this bizarre killing was a thrill kill based on the fact that the victims were young, innocent, and helpless. There has never been a case like this near this small town.

The Girl Scout murderer case happened over 35 years ago and the suspect had raped other women. He died in prison for these cases. The DNA was too old in his case to test to find the killer of the girl scouts. These girl scouts were raped and brutalized. The Weleetka case was not sexual; the locals would have leaked this info if it was sexual. These killers were impulsive, explosive and sociopathic which is exactly the same type of young adult that tortures small animals for thrills.

Praying these monsters are found and punished SOON!

 

[Ruflossn]

And with that...here we go....



"I have a man with the OSBI that would seriously like to talk to you. Are you ready to pick this up again?
Call me. Please!"

I almost fell out of my chair. First, because she had obviously told an actual LE officer about this crazy dream I had. I was mortified thinking that this guy, if he existed, must think I'm a fruitloop. It was 2 am when I got the email so I called her later that day. Secondly, I hadn't spoken to this person at all in at least 14 months. So this just came out of a clear blue sky. This is what she told me as best I can remember.

She told me that someone whom she believed to be OSBI, by the name of Kurt, was nosing around, asking questions three days prior. She claims to have a son who lived near where these murders took place and that this LE officer visited her son at his place of employment. She says that her son and this gentleman went to school together. She told me that her son had a hunting lease on property adjacent to where these murders took place, and that's why LE was asking questions of her son. And yes, she told me that SHE called this LE officer after the visit to her son, she recited the dream I had to him. I was p*ssed.

She wanted me to talk to him and she said that he told her to try and get in touch with me and to get him my name and number. She wanted 'permission" I suppose to give him this info but I don't understand now why. She had no issue with revealing the content of this crazy dream of mine after I'd specifically told her a million times to tell no one. I wasn't ashamed of it or hiding it, I just didn't want people to think I was crazy, so I asked her never to tell it. I didn't find out until my conversation with her on April 14th that she HAS told other people. But I let it go and played along. Sure, if she wanted to give him my name and number.....go for it. I'd like this case solved so badly that I'd tell it now...whether I look like a fruitloop or not.

It's now ten days later. I haven't received another email from her (or a response to two emails I've sent to her) and NO ONE has called me re this case. I was trying to sorta wait it out and see if this Kurt called, or what the heck was going on. But since ten days have gone by I decided to post it and let you guys see what, if anything, you make of it. I just found it really, really odd that this happened out of the blue like this and I confess, it bothers me just a little and I can't quite put my finger on exactly why.

*Yes....I have the email.
*I can also pull that two hour phone call off of my phone records if need be.
*The source? Those of you who have been around and on this case since the beginning know who she is. I met her here on this very forum. She hasn't been around here in a very long time.

*These are the only things I can prove...kwim?

So once again.....call all of it RUMOR until someone can help me sort it out...if it's even worth sorting. But at least now you know what I know and I can stop carying this around, wondering what to do with it.....

Shutter~
One of the OSBI investigators that is working closely with this case is Kurt Titsworth. Some people do not believe he is doing a good job on this case. I believe he is doing the best with what he has to work with. I would imagine this is the "Kurt" that was referenced by your friend. Again, this is all jmo. And FTR, I do not think you are a fruitloop. Your dream was a personal matter and we can not control our dreams.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Pensfan, amazing information.
I believe the local folks could pinpoint these people too.

 

[GetSmart]

"deja vu"
Poor Shutterfly !!
I don't think YOU are the Fruitloop !!!

 

[wfgodot]

I, unfortunately, lived 27 years around Atoka, OK. This area is very rural, poor, uneducated, and clannish; but these murders aren't from clan or drug retaliation. This is a random thrill killing and that’s why no crimes in this area have been seen like it before or since these murders. LE hasn’t been able to solve this crime because they have incorrectly profiled the killers. These killers are best friends and the “leader” or both have Disorganized Episodic Aggression. If LE would publish a list of these characteristics to everyone around this tiny town, the good ‘ole folk could identify these best friend killers (aged 16-25) very quickly. Here are the characteristics of Disorganized Episodic Aggression.

Ritualistic behavior
Attempts to conceal mental instability
Compulsivity
ADHD or ADD or Bipolar-biochemical symptoms
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Possible evidence of genetic disorder
Periodic search for psychiatric help
unreliability
untruthfulness
History of suicidal gesture
History of committing assault
Hypersexuality and/or abnormal sexual behavior
poor judgment
History of drug or alcohol abuse
Parents with history of chronic drug or alcohol abuse
Victim of childhood physical or mental abuse
Probably a result of an unwanted pregnancy
Unhappiness in childhood resulted in inability to find happiness and probably not to finish high school school
Extraordinary cruelty to animals
unable to follow any life plan
Attraction to arson without homicidal interest
Symptoms of neurological impairment
Feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy

Here is an excellent article to read related to Disorganized Episodic Aggression. (Yes, I am an old psych nurse.)
http://www.ravenndragon.net/montgomery/csi/oconnortypology2.pdf

The only problem with the utility of a Disorganized Episodic Aggression theory - in rural Oklahoma, where meth and alcohol are major problems and poverty, family dysfunction, and lack of opportunities are all prevalent to a pronounced degree - is that most towns have many individuals who fit this pattern of behavior. Still, it's a very good theory: no lack of suspects, certainly, though OSBI has yet to find the right combination.

I can't agree with the random "thrill kill" theory, though; I think these murders served a purpose to the killer(s) beyond that of the kill itself, and the answers are close enough at hand that these crimes should have been solved long ago. Some locals must know the answers but, either through fear of the criminals or their families, or of authority, their silence has succeeded in making this, for the time-being, an almost unsolvable case.

 

[Pensfan]

The only problem with the utility of a Disorganized Episodic Aggression theory - in rural Oklahoma, where meth and alcohol are major problems and poverty, family dysfunction, and lack of opportunities are all prevalent to a pronounced degree - is that most towns have many individuals who fit this pattern of behavior. Still, it's a very good theory: no lack of suspects, certainly, though OSBI has yet to find the right combination.

I can't agree with the random "thrill kill" theory, though; I think these murders served a purpose to the killer(s) beyond that of the kill itself, and the answers are close enough at hand that these crimes should have been solved long ago. Some locals must know the answers but, either through fear of the criminals or their families, or of authority, their silence has succeeded in making this, for the time-being, an almost unsolvable case.

My elderly mom still lives in Okla. and cries for these little girls. I keep track of the news (or should I say the lack of news) on this case for her. It really seems to me that the one young male (that threatened his own family with killing them and burning their house to the ground) is Borderline Personality Disorder if not sociopathic and pathologically unpredictable. IMO, he fits about all of the DEAggression characteristics. The mentally retarded male who was his buddy would be the perfect companion for the sociopath's thrill kill. The sociopath could easily have encouraged this MR young man to "play along". I'd be willing to bet that this MR young man is only borderline MR and has a high-enough IQ to play "Natural Born Killer". Having lived in SE Okla., I will never type these crazy males' names. Some of these clans are beyond unpredictable to begin with and once you add meth., it gets really scaaaaaarey. IMHO, there are people in that tiny town that are so afraid of these crazy clans, that $160,000 reward is just not worth reporting what they know.

IMO, one of these precious girls also has a very disturbed relative who closely fits the characteristics of BPD or sociopath with DEAggresion. It's time for the OSBI to release all of their discoveries, so that this crime can be solved by the public if they can't do it. Continuing to pray for justice.

 

[noZme]

I sometimes wonder if more progress would have been made if the investigation had been left to Sheriff Choate. A rural county doesn't have the resources OSBI does, but with all the state has at it's disposal, the record is pathetic. They moved in with all the big guns & the "face of OSBI", darling spokesperson, J Brown & alienated the locals. The Weleetka perp is known in the area or was traveling through & would have stood out to the residents. Either way, the locals would have been key to solving this horrible crime, but instead clammed-up.

I remember very early in the investigation, perhaps that Monday, the sheriff stated they had someone in mind. Too bad we cannot rewind & try another course......... I haven't posted here for a long time; it is the most discouraging case I follow.

 

[little726]

I sometimes wonder if more progress would have been made if the investigation had been left to Sheriff Choate. A rural county doesn't have the resources OSBI does, but with all the state has at it's disposal, the record is pathetic. They moved in with all the big guns & the "face of OSBI", darling spokesperson, J Brown & alienated the locals. The Weleetka perp is known in the area or was traveling through & would have stood out to the residents. Either way, the locals would have been key to solving this horrible crime, but instead clammed-up.

I remember very early in the investigation, perhaps that Monday, the sheriff stated they had someone in mind. Too bad we cannot rewind & try another course......... I haven't posted here for a long time; it is the most discouraging case I follow.

And they're still "clammy."

 

[Shutterfly]

Shutter~
One of the OSBI investigators that is working closely with this case is Kurt Titsworth. Some people do not believe he is doing a good job on this case. I believe he is doing the best with what he has to work with. I would imagine this is the "Kurt" that was referenced by your friend. Again, this is all jmo. And FTR, I do not think you are a fruitloop. Your dream was a personal matter and we can not control our dreams.

"deja vu"
Poor Shutterfly !!
I don't think YOU are the Fruitloop !!!

But alas, a certain 'nameless' investigator sure sounded as though he believes I'm a fruitloop. I could crawl under a rock and just die. I've never been so humiliated in my life. So THIS is what it's like when you start a sentence with " I have a dream" and you're not Martin Luther King Jr? Sheesh. I won't make THAT mistake again.:furious:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

But alas, a certain 'nameless' investigator sure sounded as though he believes I'm a fruitloop. I could crawl under a rock and just die. I've never been so humiliated in my life. So THIS is what it's like when you start a sentence with " I have a dream" and you're not Martin Luther King Jr? Sheesh. I won't make THAT mistake again.:furious:

Shutterfly, I am sorry that you were betrayed and humiliated in this way. We all know you are not a fruitloop. Hugs, wm