so there is no DNA evidence that ties the WM3.....

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Again, what about Jacoby's mtDNA? It was there, too, and he says that he wasn't at the discovery site. To my knowledge, he had no direct contact with the boys on May 5, 1993. If the TH hair is innocent secondary transfer, how did the Jacoby hair arrive on the scene?

The hair linked to him could also be from something like 16% (someone may be able to correct me of the percentage here) of the population .. They are not matches they are just 'similar'. Same goes for the TH hair. They are not actual matches.
 
The TH hair could have come from 1.5% of the population. The Jacoby hair could have come from 7% of the population. However, whoever is the source of the hair must share a maternal ancestor with TH and Jacoby, respectively, and must have been in West Memphis, Arkansas on May 5, 1993. Yes, it's circumstantial, but so was every scrap of evidence (except Jessie's stories) against Damien, Jason and Jessie. Those percentages, as I understand it, represent the percent of the population with a common maternal ancestor as determined by mtDNA.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose that a hair was found at the discovery site that was linked to 1.5% of the population, including Damien and another hair was found that was linked to 7% of the population, including Jason. Would a non dismiss those hairs as the TH and Jacoby hairs are being dismissed? Early on in the case, there was a hair (or hairs) that was said to be "microscopically similar" to Damien (which has since been found to be false). That comparison doesn't even come close to this potential match! However, it was presented as evidence against him, and the jury, out of ignorance or fear or whatever, bought it! Even TH has stated that the hair is "probably" his, but of course he claims innocent transfer - which, as has been explained by others, doesn't really hold water on an active eight-year-old boy who he claims he didn't see all that day.

Occam's Razor says that the simpler of two explanations is usually correct. What's simpler? (1)Three teens, in a drunken state, kill three eight-year-old boys whom they did not know and do so without leaving any physical evidence. (2)An adult (or adults) kills three eight-year-old boys, one of whom is (one of) the adult's step son, move the bodies to hide any evidence but inadvertently leave a hair at the discovery site. My money is on #2!
 
Well mine is still on #1 .. But thanks for the clarification of percentages.
 
So the grip-ends of those sticks were never tested?

It just seems to me to be one obvious place for look for DNA, even years later... Surely somebody must have tested them? Or were they all underwater (and therefore useless)?

When I feel a bit better, that's deffo something I will dig about for info on.
 
The TH hair could have come from 1.5% of the population. The Jacoby hair could have come from 7% of the population. However, whoever is the source of the hair must share a maternal ancestor with TH and Jacoby, respectively, and must have been in West Memphis, Arkansas on May 5, 1993. Yes, it's circumstantial, but so was every scrap of evidence (except Jessie's stories) against Damien, Jason and Jessie. Those percentages, as I understand it, represent the percent of the population with a common maternal ancestor as determined by mtDNA.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose that a hair was found at the discovery site that was linked to 1.5% of the population, including Damien and another hair was found that was linked to 7% of the population, including Jason. Would a non dismiss those hairs as the TH and Jacoby hairs are being dismissed? Early on in the case, there was a hair (or hairs) that was said to be "microscopically similar" to Damien (which has since been found to be false). That comparison doesn't even come close to this potential match! However, it was presented as evidence against him, and the jury, out of ignorance or fear or whatever, bought it! Even TH has stated that the hair is "probably" his, but of course he claims innocent transfer - which, as has been explained by others, doesn't really hold water on an active eight-year-old boy who he claims he didn't see all that day.

Occam's Razor says that the simpler of two explanations is usually correct. What's simpler? (1)Three teens, in a drunken state, kill three eight-year-old boys whom they did not know and do so without leaving any physical evidence. (2)An adult (or adults) kills three eight-year-old boys, one of whom is (one of) the adult's step son, move the bodies to hide any evidence but inadvertently leave a hair at the discovery site. My money is on #2!

In scenario #2, you forgot to include the history of abuse of the step son by one of the adults.




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The TH hair could have come from 1.5% of the population. The Jacoby hair could have come from 7% of the population. However, whoever is the source of the hair must share a maternal ancestor with TH and Jacoby, respectively, and must have been in West Memphis, Arkansas on May 5, 1993. Yes, it's circumstantial, but so was every scrap of evidence (except Jessie's stories) against Damien, Jason and Jessie. Those percentages, as I understand it, represent the percent of the population with a common maternal ancestor as determined by mtDNA.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose that a hair was found at the discovery site that was linked to 1.5% of the population, including Damien and another hair was found that was linked to 7% of the population, including Jason. Would a non dismiss those hairs as the TH and Jacoby hairs are being dismissed? Early on in the case, there was a hair (or hairs) that was said to be "microscopically similar" to Damien (which has since been found to be false). That comparison doesn't even come close to this potential match! However, it was presented as evidence against him, and the jury, out of ignorance or fear or whatever, bought it! Even TH has stated that the hair is "probably" his, but of course he claims innocent transfer - which, as has been explained by others, doesn't really hold water on an active eight-year-old boy who he claims he didn't see all that day.

Occam's Razor says that the simpler of two explanations is usually correct. What's simpler? (1)Three teens, in a drunken state, kill three eight-year-old boys whom they did not know and do so without leaving any physical evidence. (2)An adult (or adults) kills three eight-year-old boys, one of whom is (one of) the adult's step son, move the bodies to hide any evidence but inadvertently leave a hair at the discovery site. My money is on #2!

I absolutely agree with you. It's strange how TH's DNA is dismissed (even thought I do find the transfer theory to hold some logic to it, and I wouldn't call TH guilty solely because of the DNA) but the second they find something that MIGHT (not even 100% sure!) be from Damien, he's suddenly the devil and killed these three boys without any doubt. It just doesn't fly with me.

I am on the fence about all of this though. I do not think WMFree did this but, as always, I can't be 100% sure. But my gut feeling says that they're innocent. On the other hand, I don't feel like TH is the killer either, even though I have to admit between that it's the most logical choice between the two possible scenarios. If somebody told me that either WMFree or TH did this, and that they were 100% sure about it, I'd go for TH, absolutely.
 
Also, abuse gone wrong is far more common. Stevie defying him, and Hobbs loosing his temper and beating him to death in a fit of rage, as well as murdering the other two to cover his own *advertiser censored* is more likely.
 
So the grip-ends of those sticks were never tested?

It just seems to me to be one obvious place for look for DNA, even years later... Surely somebody must have tested them? Or were they all underwater (and therefore useless)?

When I feel a bit better, that's deffo something I will dig about for info on.

Well, I don't feel better yet, ha, but I did dig about for stick info..

As far as I could see, the sticks were left at the scene for weeks, and were rained on and such. So I doubt they were tested, or useful to anyone even if they were.

^ This needs verification, however. While the poster I read it from is knowledgeable on the case, I'd prefer some sort of official word on that.
 
to the crime scene so they must be innocent, but they foundDr Terry Hobbs DNA/ David Jacoby's DNA so they must be guilty.

Give me a break. :floorlaugh:

I have yet to hear TH & DJ confess to killing 3 innocent children. (They have had 18 years to do so).

How come TH has never confessed to PH about killing her son? maybe because he didn't do it.

They did not show everything in the trial. both are biased documentaries to make JMB (1st one) the culprit and the WM3 look innocent.

PLEASE look at the evidence in this case and then make up your mind.

Im sorry, but who in their right mind would ever willingly confess to the slaughter of three children? Let alone confess to the MOTHER of one of the victims?! Are you for real?!
 
Jessie Misskelley was 17 years old and has an IQ in the low 70s. He was also interrogated by the police with no parent or attorney present.

None of the above applies to Terry Hobbs.
 
Jessie Misskelley?

There was nothing WILLING about his "confession".

The only thing willing about JM was his desire to go home to his Dad and get some sleep. If I was an intellectually disabled, sleep deprived minor, heavily dependant on their father that they're purposefully being kept from.....hell, I'd be compliant and open to anything LE may have suggested to me. Sadly, JM did not understand the consequences that being open to the power of suggestion would entail.
 
Im sorry, but who in their right mind would ever willingly confess to the slaughter of three children? Let alone confess to the MOTHER of one of the victims?! Are you for real?!

Yeah, that's really odd isn't it?

All three Jason Baldwin, Jesse Misskelley and Damien Echols (aka Michael Echols, Icky) later plead guilty to murder instead of going through with a new trial.

I find it odd that in the few years leading up to their guilty plea they claimed to have 'evidence that would prove we're innocent' AND that if they are out of prison they can work on that, but that was just a fairy tale.
 
Yeah, that's really odd isn't it?

All three Jason Baldwin, Jesse Misskelley and Damien Echols (aka Michael Echols, Icky) later plead guilty to murder instead of going through with a new trial.

To simplify that matter in those terms is misleading. They were granted an evidentiary hearing, not a new trial, and there was no guarantee that a new trial was imminent.
 
But Echols is confident his lawyers will be able to convince the court to grant him a new trial.

"I believe there has to be a good reason for this," he said. "I believe something good will come out of it."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/28/west.memphis.3.damien.echols/index.html?hpt=C2

Again, misleading.

That article was written well prior to the evidentiary hearing, 15 months prior actually. If in the event a new trial was granted at the conclusion of that evidentiary hearing, IMO, they would have had to wait an extra 18 months for the trial to start. Who knows whether a new trial would have been granted? There were no guarantees.

By mid 2011, prior to the evidentiary hearing, the health of DE had deteriorated rapidly. Cue the Alford Plea. The Alford Plea guaranteed them immediate freedom. They took it. And good on em.'


the Alford Plea.
 
prior to the evidentiary hearing, the health of DE had deteriorated rapidly.
Echols' clams of his heath deteriorating were obviously misleading, as if they were true he wouldn't have been jet setting around the world as soon as he got out.
 
How soon?

To be fair, a mix of sunlight, fresh air and good food can do a body wonders. Vitamin deficiencies CAN cause untold problems, particularly over the long-term.

I really don't know enough Echol's specific state of health to say whether that alone could have caused a rapid improvement in health, however. Clearly, you do kyle - would you elaborate?
 
Okay - something bothering me (and on the topic of DNA) -- were there or were there not bits of 'unidentified' DNA found on the genitals of some of the victims?
 
Okay - something bothering me (and on the topic of DNA) -- were there or were there not bits of 'unidentified' DNA found on the genitals of some of the victims?

It is my understanding that the "unidentified DNA" can only be said to be male. It has since been determined to not be from any of the victims or any of the falsely-convicted. IIRC, even Hobbs and Jacoby have been ruled out of this sample. Again, IIRC, this sample (one allele) cannot be matched to any sample in this case. (This was determined in post-2007 testing, BTW.)

So, whose DNA was it? I wonder what would happen if they tested JKM's DNA against those samples. IIRC, his DNA hasn't been tested in this case.
 

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