Social Groups

[Busylady]

I don't know what the answer is Steadfast, all I know was we were really trying to do a good thing and it just went haywire. I have no issues with the mods being everywhere and doing their thing. I wasn't trying to get into an area that would not have moderation, I just wanted an area were we could actually sleuth facts out. It was also nice because we could throw things out there and sleuth them to see if they had any importance and there was no threat of the info being copied to various other forums. I can't tell you how many things we worked on that ended up being a dead end or no connection at all once we worked thru them, would of hated to have that info all over the net.

Admin has been great to me and has helped me thru all this, otherwise I would of removed my membership along time ago.

It seems like your problems in the Haleigh rumor thread make a better argument for more moderation of posts instead of adding a place where there is less. The posters who went further than challenging or offering different opinions needed to be reported, and then moderators needed to deal harshly with them.
I'm sorry you've been treated the way you have been, and I hope that the admins here can identify these trolls and eliminate them from the membership here.

 

[poco]

Heck, I had forgotten all about them, lol.

 

[atherella]

It seems like your problems in the Haleigh rumor thread make a better argument for more moderation of posts instead of adding a place where there is less. The posters who went further than challenging or offering different opinions needed to be reported, and then moderators needed to deal harshly with them.
I'm sorry you've been treated the way you have been, and I hope that the admins here can identify these trolls and eliminate them from the membership here.

Speaking as someone who took part in Busylady's social group, I can honestly say that we uncovered amazing amounts of information.

It became very uncomfortable posting in the general rumor thread. I think it was very hard to moderate the thread. Overwhelming even. Which was why we broke off into a separate group. It was not to hurt anyone's feelings or to "hide information". It was really just to keep the peace in the RT, and so we could try to look at one side of the family that the main RT in general didn't really want to look at.

Like Busy said, we spent hours researching - and uncovered so much. When we tried to post about it in the main thread, we were ridiculed, etc. I'm not trying to cause problems by saying that, I know that it was not easy to keep control of that RT group as a whole, but I think our SG was an amazing place and I was really disappointed we lost it, because we would never have uncovered the info we did posting in the RT.

 

[STEADFAST]

Speaking as someone who took part in Busylady's social group, I can honestly say that we uncovered amazing amounts of information.

It became very uncomfortable posting in the general rumor thread. I think it was very hard to moderate the thread. Overwhelming even. Which was why we broke off into a separate group. It was not to hurt anyone's feelings or to "hide information". It was really just to keep the peace in the RT, and so we could try to look at one side of the family that the main RT in general didn't really want to look at.

Like Busy said, we spent hours researching - and uncovered so much. When we tried to post about it in the main thread, we were ridiculed, etc. I'm not trying to cause problems by saying that, I know that it was not easy to keep control of that RT group as a whole, but I think our SG was an amazing place and I was really disappointed we lost it, because we would never have uncovered the info we did posting in the RT.

There may be special circumstances I hadn't envisioned that would lead to people wanting to "sleuth" in private. I've never really seen the kind of behavior that must have gone on in the Haleigh rumor thread, except to a certain extent in the Madeleine McCann forum.
I guess I just have this purist idea of WS as a place thousands of people can express their respectful opinions on cases and test them. I see private yahoo groups and that kind of thing for non-public sleuthing, speculating, testing theories that might injure the innocent, even mocking and complaining, etc. But it seems like members on WS (or any other public crime forum) should feel safe from bullying, mocking, public humiliation, etc. and not have to worry that there's some other "layer" of the site that has a whole other discussion going on about the same subject.
According to my son, who has years of experience posting on and administering many forums for all kinds of interests, every single forum has the same kind of problems WS has with the pettiness, bullying, hacking attempts, and the like. The only way I can see to combat these things is to keep everything above board on the site as a whole.

 

[debs]

I'm not certain one should assume responsibility for the SG's being shut down, let alone the RT. However, and again from my perspective, there was precious little fact sharing going on in the RT and the subterfuge of those SGs to "sleuth out the truth" bore no fruit of their labors.

What was obtained was the breeding ground for the infamous "Breasts for Skin Art" debates, with very little LISTENING to either side going on. And without turning THIS thread into a debate about THAT, I hold tightly to my belief that the SG did more to shut down honest debate which examined both sides. To believe one had the "truth" in their SG is bogus, no matter how you see this case playing out.

 

[audiogirl]

There is not one thing that I could possibly think of posting in a SG that I would not post in public.

I respect every poster's opinion, even when we don't agree. I, in return, naturally expect the same courtesy. I have been horrified while reading some posts from time to time. To tell the truth, my mouse has hovered over the "report" button many times. (no, I didn't report you lol)

After giving it some thought, I realize that if I am going to play in the sand box, I should expect some sand in my eyes from time to time. I am grown and ultimately responsible for my own actions.

As far as the SGs are concerned, I liken it to having a group of your peers pick their prospective teams and little Johnny is always the last one chosen. I never did like having to pick and I would be mortified to be "little Johnny".

Anyway.... just my two cents. :blowkiss:

 

[TxLady2]

SS, It's not just people who were not invited to join SG's that don't think they are a good thing. The crime forums -- the basis of WS -- lose their credibility when good posters just use them as a front for their real, private sleuthing and trading of information that is not available to the thousands that could be working on it. Plus, people can form the illusion that they are doing great work on a case when their suggestions and opinions are not challenged.
I don't see WS as a place to come to for privacy. Can't imagine why Tricia would want to pay for people to use up bandwidth to whisper about things they don't want to post on her site.
I know it makes some members feel wonderful if they have inside information, secret theories, or opinions that the rabble would never understand or shouldn't be allowed to know, but I don't see it as furthering the goals of WS. In my opinion, if theories can't stand the light of day, they probably aren't all that great.
I completely agree with you about the "Caylee is Alive" thread. The rules imposed on that thread went against everything I have come to think WS is about.

BBM. Exactly!! If people here want a private site to discuss their views, it should be somewhere else... not here in WS. If I were the owner here, I would not pay for the space to house any private groups... period.
I am sick to death of hearing that those who want to look 'elsewhere' are constantly shot down... that is not true! When one presents an opinion or a theory, then they should expect that it will be challenged by those who disagree, that's just human nature. If one cannot face a challenge, then they don't need to be on a forum talking about it in the first place. There are plenty of webhosting sites that will allow you to put up your own message board, some are free and others are very reasonable. Yes, I know one of the TOS says you can't use PM's to try to get people to join other sites. But you can PM someone and give them your email and request that they email you, where you can then ask them to join. Nothing wrong with that, I don't believe. And if you don't want to form a group of your own, then do some searching on the net and find a place you can be comfortable posting in.
If the moderators here are asking what we as posters think they should do, then I say do not allow these private SG's for any purpose... there are tons of forums on the net for anything you want to talk about with people who are interested in the same things. It might take a little digging to find the right ones, but they are out there. Social groups don't belong on a crime forum. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[badme102]

I am going to share my thoughts because I feel partly responsible for the groups getting shut down - then go into hiding because quite honestly I don't know how much more of this I can take lol. I requested a social group to sleuth the Sheffield side of the family in the Haleigh Cummings case. The intent was not to exclude anyone it was to create an environment that we could actually sleuth and be productive. In the rumor threads if the Sheffield name was mentioned all heck would break lose and the thread would shut down it was way more than just "challenging" someones theory or thoughts. I really thought the rumor thread posters that did not want to see or discuss the name Sheffield would be relieved and the rumor thread would not get shut down. Sometimes due to frustration the SG would get off topic and then get back on track, we as a group uncovered amazing amounts of information. Hours and hours of research was done. There was no family members in there hiding giving us info as some have suggested. When it was brought to everyones attention in the rumor thread that I opened this group I was called every name in the book, called a liar, accused of helping cover up a murder and being in love with RC. I witnessed a side of WS posters that I never dreamed existed.

Some of these same WS posters that I had grown to respect, are now hitting all the various forums spouting lies about me, making fun of me, creating user hats pretending to be me and spouting garbage. I truly don't understand the mentality of it all but my mind does not work that way.

Had I know that requesting a social group to work on a missing childs case was going to create this type of drama and hurt so many people I would of never made the request to admin for the group. So if the groups do come back I will not join one. Live and learn I guess.

End of rant, and I am sorry to those that felt like I was excluding you in any way by having the group that was not my intent.

Busy, although you and I have opposing views of the Haleigh case, not only did I want to 'thank' your post, but I wanted to say DITTO DITTO DITTO.
The shock I am feeling regarding some poster's behaviors inside and outside of this forum against you, me, and others, is going to be with me for quite some time.

Like you, I think I'll stick to the open threads from now on.

In my very humble opinion, I think the SG's created in the HC case only, was not only a part of the undoing of the RT. but also defeated the whole purpose of us coming to WS in the first place. (As stated in a previous post by )

 

[JBean]

BBM. Exactly!! If people here want a private site to discuss their views, it should be somewhere else... not here in WS. If I were the owner here, I would not pay for the space to house any private groups... period.
I am sick to death of hearing that those who want to look 'elsewhere' are constantly shot down... that is not true! When one presents an opinion or a theory, then they should expect that it will be challenged by those who disagree, that's just human nature. If one cannot face a challenge, then they don't need to be on a forum talking about it in the first place. There are plenty of webhosting sites that will allow you to put up your own message board, some are free and others are very reasonable. Yes, I know one of the TOS says you can't use PM's to try to get people to join other sites. But you can PM someone and give them your email and request that they email you, where you can then ask them to join. Nothing wrong with that, I don't believe. And if you don't want to form a group of your own, then do some searching on the net and find a place you can be comfortable posting in.
If the moderators here are asking what we as posters think they should do, then I say do not allow these private SG's for any purpose... there are tons of forums on the net for anything you want to talk about with people who are interested in the same things. It might take a little digging to find the right ones, but they are out there. Social groups don't belong on a crime forum. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I think this an important post and has a lot of valid points.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know what the answer is Steadfast, all I know was we were really trying to do a good thing and it just went haywire. I have no issues with the mods being everywhere and doing their thing. I wasn't trying to get into an area that would not have moderation, I just wanted an area were we could actually sleuth facts out. It was also nice because we could throw things out there and sleuth them to see if they had any importance and there was no threat of the info being copied to various other forums. I can't tell you how many things we worked on that ended up being a dead end or no connection at all once we worked thru them, would of hated to have that info all over the net.
Admin has been great to me and has helped me thru all this, otherwise I would of removed my membership along time ago.

This is one of the main reasons I feel the sgs should continue to exist. What we do here can impact people's lives in a positive way or a very negative way. In order to find out the truth, things shouldn't be overlooked yet they should not be broadcast until there are some factual connections. I thought this is why we do what we do... to dig for the truth to help solve some of these horrific cases we see every day. We believe in what we are doing and believe in trying to make a difference in saving a child's life, healing a parent's heart, or bringing a person to justice.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

BBM. Exactly!! If people here want a private site to discuss their views, it should be somewhere else... not here in WS. If I were the owner here, I would not pay for the space to house any private groups... period.
I am sick to death of hearing that those who want to look 'elsewhere' are constantly shot down... that is not true! When one presents an opinion or a theory, then they should expect that it will be challenged by those who disagree, that's just human nature. If one cannot face a challenge, then they don't need to be on a forum talking about it in the first place. There are plenty of webhosting sites that will allow you to put up your own message board, some are free and others are very reasonable. Yes, I know one of the TOS says you can't use PM's to try to get people to join other sites. But you can PM someone and give them your email and request that they email you, where you can then ask them to join. Nothing wrong with that, I don't believe. And if you don't want to form a group of your own, then do some searching on the net and find a place you can be comfortable posting in.
If the moderators here are asking what we as posters think they should do, then I say do not allow these private SG's for any purpose... there are tons of forums on the net for anything you want to talk about with people who are interested in the same things. It might take a little digging to find the right ones, but they are out there. Social groups don't belong on a crime forum. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I thought it was against TOS to form our own group outside of WS this way and still maintain membership here. I am confused.

 

[Busylady]

TxLady you have some really good points, however it was far beyond just challenging theories. It was down right cruel behavior on some and the thread would get shut down every time. Posters would not post because they knew the attacks were coming. Unfortunately for some reason when you are not on the "popular" side of who is guilty some will not allow discussion or debate no matter how hard you try. Moderators had to delete so many attacking post, so unless you were there in real time and saw the attacks I am not sure you would fully understand. Yes I could of gone elsewhere to post, but WS is the best forum out there in my opinion and why should bullies chase people away? Like I stated earlier so much information was uncovered in the SG that could not of been done in the RT and that information was forwarded on to the proper authorities. I have learned more than I every cared to learn about people during this experience and I certainly will be much wiser on the next case I follow.

 

[aafromaa]

ok - see - now I'm paranoid - (head turning repeatedly from left to right while eyes dart wildly in every direction) - were any of those people talking bad 'bout me in any of those SGs? - I guess I'm not over that inferiority complex issue after all...

Seriously, I knew the SGs existed but never checked into them. As many others have said in different words - it simply isn't the reason that I come to WS. Besides, I can rarely find the time to read all the information on the regular forums that I'd like to get to so I just "figured" (that's an Arkansas thing) - I just figured I didn't have time for the SGs anyway.

I really appreciate WS admins & mods & members and I trust the admins to determine what's best for this site and if they say no more private SGs, I have no problems with that - and if they say no SGs at all, I'm okay with that too. I just want to say thanks for looking out for everyone.

 

[petresq_algc]

I wasn't a member of any of the HC social groups. However, if they contained posts making fun of other posters I can see why they were shut down. IMO that is childish and immature behavior and has no place on WS. The RT had literally become a toxic environment IMO. WS is above that type of foolishness. I can't speak for others, but that is THE reason I joined WS as opposed to similar forums.

I am only left to wonder what it is about this particular case that seems to bring so much nastiness out of people. It is still going on at other forums (making fun of posters, etc.) but thankfully it is their job to try to moderate their sites and stop those problems now.

 

[SeekingJana]

JMO, but if something related to any case can't be posted in a private area such as the PL, then it doesn't belong on WS.

I also agree with the poster who asked why Tricia should pay to have HER bandwidth taken up by " private social groups". If members want to discuss substance abuse on the Internet, then for gosh sake, Google recovery sites and go post.
Same with life issues like pregnancy, birth, babies, illnesses, autism, etc. If it can't be said in the JR or PL, then why are you trying to discuss it on this forum at all? It's easy to FIND an existing Internet forum and discuss your social/ emotional issues or find a therapist who can offer expert guidance. WS exists to discuss and solve crimes.

I abhor the idea of the " haves" and " have nots". This is why I don't use the messaging system on profiles or allow the "friends" option on my profile any longer.
WS will be a haven for all when the clique element left over from 2008 disappears forever.

There are so many newer posters, worthy people with such fresh viewpoints, who have joined recently and continue to join. They need to feel that they are a part of the Websleuths experience. Every part of this " enhanced" stuff leaves out new posters. I hate the changes made with the " enhancements". I hate elitism and exclusions IRL also.

Our moderators and Tricia made the right decision. I stand behind them 100% and hope they will also look at the way the standing " social networking" features on Member Profile pages exclude new members.

Sincerely,
Maria

 

[Kimster]

I could care less if there are social groups. And if they want to talk about me, then I'll just get my friends from the next galaxy over to come down and smote them.

Seriously, people will talk about you if they want to - thru email or PMs or even call each other on the phone. I'm from small towns, I'm used to it. I do feel bad for those that may have been hurt by them, however. :blowkiss:

We had a social group for the Basement Party and one day - POOF! ~ it was gone. I really didn't have time to keep up with it and all the other threads I find interesting here. There is so much to do and so little time!

 

[Dr. Know?]

TxLady you have some really good points, however it was far beyond just challenging theories. It was down right cruel behavior on some and the thread would get shut down every time. Posters would not post because they knew the attacks were coming. Unfortunately for some reason when you are not on the "popular" side of who is guilty some will not allow discussion or debate no matter how hard you try. Moderators had to delete so many attacking post, so unless you were there in real time and saw the attacks I am not sure you would fully understand. Yes I could of gone elsewhere to post, but WS is the best forum out there in my opinion and why should bullies chase people away? Like I stated earlier so much information was uncovered in the SG that could not of been done in the RT and that information was forwarded on to the proper authorities. I have learned more than I every cared to learn about people during this experience and I certainly will be much wiser on the next case I follow.

Busy, I haven't posted much lately. I was never in a SG. I saw what you reported and saw it from a different side. I think all sides feel the same about being attacked. So, if you take what you just said and take off the Txlady, I agree with all or both yours and Txlady's posts. Truce? Ducking now....



Thanks.

 

[LaLaw2000]

If information was uncovered in a SG relating to a missing child and it was not shared then that is a shame. I thought we were here to collectively find answers.

Too many people took on sides in the Haleigh Cummings case. If one side stated that it was dark outside the other side said no, the sun is shining. I stopped posting very much because if LE cannot get past a certain point then I tend to believe them. That was my stance and I just kept repeating it. What I absolutely hated to see was someone say something and then say they could not reveal their source. That did not help anything and did not find Haleigh. It got to be ridiculous.

Anyway, I feel that the SG's just bring more problems than they are worth. I did not keep up with them. It certainly is not my forum and I have no say in it, but I just do not see the need for them. I have no idea what happened and was not included in it. I love WS and want to stay!

That is my 2 cents worth.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

This is one of the main reasons I feel the sgs should continue to exist. What we do here can impact people's lives in a positive way or a very negative way. In order to find out the truth, things shouldn't be overlooked yet they should not be broadcast until there are some factual connections. I thought this is why we do what we do... to dig for the truth to help solve some of these horrific cases we see every day. We believe in what we are doing and believe in trying to make a difference in saving a child's life, healing a parent's heart, or bringing a person to justice.

Good points. But at the same time, I didn't realize the SGs were about cases and it has really bummed me in reading this thread to realize there was one for a case I am very drawn to. I don't post much in it, but,then again, I guess since the real sleuthing was taking place elsewhere, that would limit participation in the board. I see the dilemma of locals wanting to be careful, worried about a perp or whatever, but, it still makes it seem unfair to other members that we are then shut out.

 

[Viki]

As a relative newcomer I was not a member of a SG, came to WS to share some insights about the Cantu case and found my way to the Haleigh Cummings case. Being an outsider, with no preconceptions about this case when I started sleuthing it, I SUSPECT what happened went something like this: SGs were formed with the good intention we all share to sleuth these cases, eventually a group think mentality developed and when some of these wisdoms were shared with the larger group there was surprise that THEIR shared wisdom was challenged. This, combined with the developing in-group think, led more and more posters to complain back channel to Mods, whose loyalties to certain posters as victims was recruited, leading to heavier and heavier hands in moderation. Heavier handed moderation resulted in the group as a whole feeling more and more oppressed in their ability to sleuth and all of this angst fed back to SGs, where it was fed, nurtured and relaunched back to the group as a whole, furthering a vicious cycle that has finally led us here.

If there is a solution at this point I imagine it would involve disbanding certain SGs, establishing new Mods in some forums, loosening the reigns, reestablishing trust, and strongly discouraging back channel communication between participants and Mods except when something very important is at stake. For the posters parts it would involve growing up a bit, accepting challenge as less personal, and cultivating a good, healthy dose of humor.

Thank you for letting me share.

Peace!