Sounds

[sleuth-d-]

Four witnesses testified hearing a combination of arguing between a man and a woman, a woman screaming, two distinct voices, then gunshots, followed by silence.

All witnesses were adamant that it was a woman's voice. All were awakened in the middle of the night. There was nothing vague about their testimony.

Remember, if Reeva spoke or screamed prior to the shots, OP is lying about everything.

bbm
yes, the scream is absolutely crucial.

two options:
a sociopathic liar; 'fighting for his life', who will stop at nothing... screams like a woman.
or, a woman; terrified for her life, in making her final sound, helps to convict her killer.


maybe a tiny piece of poetic justice, in this horrific affair.

 

[DebinGA]

The sound that supposedly filled OP with instant terror ... the bathroom window sliding open

bail affi: "I heard a noise in the bathroom and realized that someone was in the bathroom."

trial statement read by Outwage: "I heard the bathroom window sliding open. I believed that an intruder or intruders had entered the bathroom through the bathroom window which was not fixed with burglar bars."

OP during Nel's cross: "The noise [from the bathroom] was hard. The sliding of the window and it hitting the window frame -- it was clear"

window pic [notice handles placement]: http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...-_1675168a.jpg

IIRC police found one of the frosted window panels was open. Dr. Stipp saw, through that open space in the bathroom, a person moving right to left.

 

[sleuth-d-]

The sound that supposedly filled OP with instant terror ... the bathroom window sliding open

bail affi: "I heard a noise in the bathroom and realized that someone was in the bathroom."

trial statement read by Outwage: "I heard the bathroom window sliding open. I believed that an intruder or intruders had entered the bathroom through the bathroom window which was not fixed with burglar bars."

OP during Nel's cross: "The noise [from the bathroom] was hard. The sliding of the window and it hitting the window frame -- it was clear"

window pic [notice handles placement]: http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...-_1675168a.jpg

IIRC police found one of the frosted window panels was open. Dr. Stipp saw, through that open space in the bathroom, a person moving right to left.

another image here of the open window.
the window could possibly make a noise whilst sliding. but doesn't appear to have 'hit' any other part of the frame.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-crime-scene-photos-murder-trial

 

[Apollo]

I found it interesting that OP thought the toilet door was opening and the big bad intuders were coming out to attack him. He thought he heard the sound of wood moving---the door opening against the door frame. In retrospect, he decided the sound must have been the wooden magazine rack moving since the door was locked. I'm sure he must have been very familiar with the sound the door made when it opened and closed. Seems to me the wooden magazine rack moving against a tile floor would have a totally different sound than the door opening---wood against tile. Wood against tile would make more of a screeching noise, would it not?

 

[wb180]

Given this is a sound thread and anyone keeps talking about occam razor. Lets do it like this.

1. Gunshots are louder than bat sounds.
2. All witnesses heard second set of bangs.
3. All witnesses said they were gunshots.
4. None of the witnesses have been discredited as lying.

Apply occam razor, bangs at 317 were gun shots.

Now rather than using occam razor, I will use something called common sense.

1. OP lied on stand.

Applying common sense, whatever he says cannot be relied on and therefore second set of bangs are gunshots.

 

[Apollo]

I feel that Roux won't be pursuing the cricket bat noise much further. It was a real long stretch to suggest that gunshots and a cricket bat on wood could sound similar. I've had the benefit of hearing gunfire and demolishing a wardrobe with a lump-hammer (not my usual past-time I must add), and the reverberation from a gunshot would travel much further. It's also a totally different sound. I don't believe anybody would confuse the two if both were heard without a short time frame.

Even IF the wounds were similar, the pattern would be much different. He hits the door with the cricket bat--BANG. The door doesn't break so he draws back and hits it again--BANG. Still nothing so he cranks up and hits it again---BANG. That pattern HAS to be much different than a gun firing bullets in rapid succession---BANG-BANG-BANG. There is no pause at all in the 3 shots fired.

 

[Kaly99]

Given this is a sound thread and anyone keeps talking about occam razor. Lets do it like this.

1. Gunshots are louder than bat sounds.
2. All witnesses heard second set of bangs.
3. All witnesses said they were gunshots.
4. None of the witnesses have been discredited as lying.

Apply occam razor, bangs at 317 were gun shots.

[snipped]

Which set of bangs woke up Estelle van der Merwe and her husband? She said they happened around three a.m. and that she heard a woman's cries afterwards. Her husband is supposed to have called security, I don't know the timing of that call or if it went through.

 

[jimmy73]

I can't understand why the PT team weren't able to challenge Dixon with their own evidence of loudness of bat strikes /gunshots at the various distances of neighbour witnesses (although they did seem to enquire/challenge about post production normalisation in the DT recordings at one point).

I'm still waiting for an actual measurement from a dB metre from 1m, 77m, 177m of bat strikes and gunshots, particularly ones generated inside a room with lots of echo (such a tiled bathroom with hard surfaces).

Our perception of loudness is quite subjective. It would be good to see (hear!) numbers.

 

[aoibhinn]

Thank you all for the many posts. I haven't been able to contribute as my exams start tomorrow and go on for two weeks

I found some academic papers and studies that might be of interest so I'll leave them here for when I can follow the case properly again.

Forensic Analysis of the Audibility of Female Screams:

http://www.audioforensics.com/PDFs/AES122_Scream.pdf

Finding:
Sound pressure range of female screams between 102-123Db (where 102Db is 1 SD away from the mean and therefore, an outlier. Participant suffered an asthma attack during testing). Average = 114Db.

Acoustical Society of America - Gunshot Acoustics:

http://sandiego2011.forensic-acoustics.net/4aSCa3%20Beck%20-%20forensic%20gunshot%20acoustics.pdf

Finding:
Range of gunshots tested. Sound pressure level between 152-160Db.

Forensics of a Gunshot - What's in a Bang?:

http://thesoftanonymous.com/2011/10/30/gunshot-forensics-whats-in-a-bang/

Online Magazine:
Physics of a gunshot.

~~~Can't find anything for the bat/door. It's not the same sound quality as a gunshot (or even a whip), where sound pressure force exceeds the sound-speed barrier. Max sound pressure? Most likely under 100Db for wood on wood, especially a softer and more sound absorbent timber as in the bat/door combination.~~

Back to the books! :scared:

 

[james83]

Which set of bangs woke up Estelle van der Merwe and her husband? She said they happened around three a.m. and that she heard a woman's cries afterwards. Her husband is supposed to have called security, I don't know the timing of that call or if it went through.

She could only have heard the 2nd set because she said there was silence after the bang's, and it's undisputed that after the 1st set there was screaming.

 

[patCee]

I disagree, imo you have again and again mis-stated witness' testimony in favour of OP's version of events and have chosen to disregard the evidence that has been admitted in the form of crime scene photographs showing other evidence of violence in OP's home. Broken window, bullet hole or air gun pellet hole through his bedroom door, broken corner of bedroom door where the floor lock is, blood splatter where there has as yet been no explanation as to who it belonged to or why it was there. No explanation as yet has been given for all of these as yet, but the photographic evidence of them has been entered as evidence.

Not to forget the seriously dented metal bath panel that would give a resounding ring.

 

[Kaly99]

She could only have heard the 2nd set because she said there was silence after the bang's, and it's undisputed that after the 1st set there was screaming.

I don't know what testimony you were watching! She said there was "total silence" immediately after the bangs (as did other witnesses), but then subsequently she heard a woman's cries and a "commotion". Since those cries happened after the shots, she obviously didn't mean there was "total silence" the whole time afterwards, and if you watched her testimony I'm puzzled as to how you got that impression. Given that no witnesses heard any cries or screams after the second set of shots, it sounds to me like she must have heard the first set. And the timing - around 3 a.m. - obviously fits in better with the first sounds.

 

[44ALLAN]

jay-jay asked on the other thread (the closed down one) whether the sounds of the screams/gun/bat could be 'delayed' because of the distance between witnesses earshot.

It's a science in itself seemingly but noise travels at the same speed regardless whether its a gunshot or a shout...............I think lol.

Check this link about the Kennedy assassination and 'echoes' and gunshots etc...........very interesting even though probably not relevant here but might explain why some witnesses heard 4 bangs while others heard 5 or 6

http://www.ctka.net/pr1195-cranor.html

 

[44ALLAN]

I found it interesting that OP thought the toilet door was opening and the big bad intuders were coming out to attack him. He thought he heard the sound of wood moving---the door opening against the door frame. In retrospect, he decided the sound must have been the wooden magazine rack moving since the door was locked. I'm sure he must have been very familiar with the sound the door made when it opened and closed. Seems to me the wooden magazine rack moving against a tile floor would have a totally different sound than the door opening---wood against tile. Wood against tile would make more of a screeching noise, would it not?

The door was locked according to him so he couldn't have heard the door opening because it never did............lies all lies.

 

[redheadedgal]

Four witnesses testified hearing a combination of arguing between a man and a woman, a woman screaming, two distinct voices, then gunshots, followed by silence.

All witnesses were adamant that it was a woman's voice. All were awakened in the middle of the night. There was nothing vague about their testimony.

Remember, if Reeva spoke or screamed prior to the shots, OP is lying about everything.

To my knowledge there is no way to prove who was screaming or if there even was screaming at all. Is a witness statement proof? Of course if someone was familiar with Reeva's voice they could make that statement, but it still wouldn't be "proven."

The judge will have to take the witness statements and her perception of their credibility in totality.

I would think that statements referring to a woman's "blood curdling" screams from more than one person would be enough to go on, but then I'm not the judge!

for anyone who hasn't seen it, in the first ear witness thread, i posted links to research re: identifying gender by voice, which supports these posts that a woman's voice/screams (aka, RS) were likely heard that night.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Ear Witnesses - Part 1 - Burger, van der Merwe, Johnson

 

[screecher]

Sorry. Posted in the wrong thread.

 

[jay-jay]

The door was locked according to him so he couldn't have heard the door opening because it never did............lies all lies.

Yes, he quickly had to make up something else for the noise, didn't he .. and when he said it was the magazine rack I couldn't believe it!

 

[jay-jay]

jay-jay asked on the other thread (the closed down one) whether the sounds of the screams/gun/bat could be 'delayed' because of the distance between witnesses earshot.

It's a science in itself seemingly but noise travels at the same speed regardless whether its a gunshot or a shout...............I think lol.

Check this link about the Kennedy assassination and 'echoes' and gunshots etc...........very interesting even though probably not relevant here but might explain why some witnesses heard 4 bangs while others heard 5 or 6

http://www.ctka.net/pr1195-cranor.html

Thanks for the link, will have a look at it later

BIB .. I was actually thinking of it being around the other way, i.e. not that the sound of the screams/bat were delayed .. those would've travelled at normal speed .. but that the sound of the gunshot reached the ear witness quicker because the gunshot was supersonic. I had also read up on how your perception of different sounds is different, and how you can think you have heard one sound before another simply because of how your sense of hearing and brain works.

Here's a couple of links .. I didn't really understand them totally, and I think I'm going to have to give them another read, but basically I think it just goes to show that just because the ear witness said she heard a woman's scream tailing off a moment after the last gun shot, does not actually mean it's impossible.*

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Engineering_Acoustics/The_Human_Ear_and_Sound_Perception

https://www.certainteed.com/resources/NoiseControl Brochure 30-29-121.pdf


* you also have to take into account that Reeva's final scream started before the last shot but that that scream could've continued on momentarily after the shot just through involuntary action/nerve transmittors .. and it was actually stated that the scream 'tailed off' after the last shot.

 

[44ALLAN]

Hi jay-jay,

Yes I knew what you were thinking I just didn't explain myself properly when I said 'delayed'...........oops

 

[jay-jay]

No worries! :thumb: