Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee Pt. 2

[EgyptNug]

I thought I was the only person in the world who drinks coffee to get back to sleep!
Works for me.Of course I drink coffee pretty much 24/7 anyway.

It's the Paradoxical Effect. I had that occur when I started taking a certain medication. ADHD kids often have a similiar response, caffeine calms them down, which is why (well, one theory why) amphetamines help with that condition (ADHD).

 

[radio]

It's the Paradoxical Effect. I had that occur when I started taking a certain medication. ADHD kids often have a similiar response, caffeine calms them down, which is why (well, one theory why) amphetamines help with that condition (ADHD).

Quote:
Originally Posted by radio
I thought I was the only person in the world who drinks coffee to get back to sleep!
Works for me.Of course I drink coffee pretty much 24/7 anyway.

It's the Paradoxical Effect. I had that occur when I started taking a certain medication. ADHD kids often have a similiar response, caffeine calms them down, which is why (well, one theory why) amphetamines help with that condition (ADHD).

Posts are crazy today!!!! That isn't what I said.... Kline said that. I just said I was making some coffee as that would knock me out. Posts are nutz today.

Yes, they tried amphetamines as I am supposed to be an adult adhd ... I didn't care for them so much - so I actually just take some caffeine tabs off and on and that works pretty well. If a night goes bad --- then I wait until about 2am or so, drink coffee and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[Devon]

Good point. If you took anyone's computer who uses a search engine, by filtering the history of those results, you could likely "prove" anything you wanted to about the individual.

LE knows this and being the honorable people and I feel they were likely looking for clues that might help them solve the case rather than evidence that could be used at a trial.

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway. However it is something very valuable to those who profit by sensationalizing the case.

JMO but when I saw the report on those search results, my first thought was that someone was scared and looking for means to protect themselves rather than plotting a murder.

If someone wants a fact to be true, it becomes very easy for someone else to convince the fact is true whether it is or not. It's one of the techniques frequently used in hypnosis. Come up with something that touches an emotional nerve, and it becomes even more powerful. It is also for that person that wants something to be true to look upon a piece of evidence from the angle that proves their point to be true.

What I think may have happened in this case and what can be proven to actually have happened are two completely different things. I find it much more interesting to piece together proven facts in an attempt to get to the complete true rather than hope that my theories can be proven to be true.

Bolded by me

ITA with the part I have bolded.

 

[LCoastMom]

I think a strong woman would have clammed her up even more. That's where she had the most practice clamming up. As an example if you looked back to when she requested George come see her in the jail alone, before JB talked her out it, she felt only comfortable opening up to the strongest Man in her family, such as he was/is. If memory serves me correctly she also wanted to open up to LE and wrote them a letter requesting a meeting but JB again talked her out of being more forthcoming.

I think Casey has always desperately sought the approval of the men in her life. Recall how rabid she was to speak to AL during her first jail call home, and they had only been 'dating' a short time. If JB hadn't come along I do believe that one of these Men could have played on her need to please and coaxed a confession of sorts out of her.

Um, and I really am going to bed this time..

Just couldn't resist.

*chomp*

At someone else's suggestion I was re-watching the GA jail visit from Aug earlier today. I really think if G had been allowed to keep seeing KC alone (and in person) he would've broken her. It's the only time I've seen her choke up over someone besides herself. It was very brief but she looked so close to breaking while G was talking to her, for a second I actually thought she was going to break.

Another case of to little to late.

 

[Jolynna]

I agree. Whether paddie is telling the truth or not is an interesting point. If I were sitting on a jury because paddie lied and covered up the accident I would lean towards believing paddie shoved Joe off that cliff, whether true or not. Who really knows - only paddie, and paddie has already lied. Anyway I don't think it matters. Joe is dead regardless - even if paddie took advantage of an accident - by not calling 911 (rendering aid) the cause of Joe's death became intentional.

If Paddie could have saved Joe and intentionally allowed him to suffer and die instead, Paddie is like Michelle Tharpe, the mom who allowed her 7-year-old daughter to starve down to 12 lbs.

Maybe the mom didn't deliberate and make a PLAN in advance to starve her daughter. You can say that technically the child died from negligence and not intended malice.

But, Michelle Tharpe is on death row.

 

[Imajica]

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway.

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

My trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

 

[Imajica]

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway.

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

The trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

 

[Imajica]

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway.

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

The trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

 

[Imajica]

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway. However it is something very valuable to those who profit by sensationalizing the case.

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway.

scissor snipped by me to save space

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

The trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

 

[Imajica]

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway. However it is something very valuable to those who profit by sensationalizing the case.

Since there is no way to prove that chloroform was in anyway related to the COD it becomes a mute point anyway.

scissor snipped by me to save space

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

The trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

 

[Jay D]

At someone else's suggestion I was re-watching the GA jail visit from Aug earlier today. I really think if G had been allowed to keep seeing KC alone (and in person) he would've broken her. It's the only time I've seen her choke up over someone besides herself. It was very brief but she looked so close to breaking while G was talking to her, for a second I actually thought she was going to break.

Another case of to little to late.

I agree, sorta.
Because of KC's personality, I don't think he would have "broken her". I see it more as a case of she would have opened up to him. She is in control.
Isn't it sad that she lawyered up a few days to soon. All that everyone has gone through, and in the end justice will be served anyway. BUT, even had she confided to George, she would probably waited until she was out on bail so as not to tip LE. I'm not confident that he would have done the right thing. No, not confident in George at all.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Hope I don't get a slap down for this, but IMO some of the people in the 'teaching hats' seem to get their course material from fictional crime dramas shown on tv.
Lanie

Yes, well, then we'd have to come up with more sub-groups. :crazy:

 

[Indigo]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but has anyone heard confirmation on this detail? (emphasis mine)


<snipped>

Police sources said the skull, covered with cloth and found inside a garbage bag, still had duct tape attached to the mouth.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6464439&page=1


If true, would this detail change anyone's theory as to intent/premeditation ?

 

[stagehand]

scissor snipped by me to save space

Perhaps not "prove" in the strictest sense of the word. However, lets looks at what we do know as it relates to Chloroform and the Caylee Anthony murder;

1. Online search for "chloroform", "inhalation of", "how to" sites & "household weapons"
2. Extremely high levels of Chloroform in her Sunfire.
3. Bodily fluids normally only released A.D. during decomp found in trunk
4. Hairs containing the tell-tale death band at the base of the follicle
5. Caylee's bagged remains discarded near Anthony home

Not knowing what type of additional forensic evidence was found with the body, and observing these facts as we know them, it seems reasonable to believe that the Mother followed through with a pre-meditated plan to subdue and dispose of her child.

The trunk in my poopy little car is a scary dark place sure, but I guarantee you no forensic team would ever find high levels of chloroform, stains containing bowel contents, or strands of hair from any of the dead bodies I've never carted around in my trunk.

Any of these facts taken on their own may be thin, but taken as a whole they still only point glaringly in one direction, in my opinion.

Ok lets just say for the sake of argument that Casey searched the Internet for chloroform, found a recipe for making chloroform, bought the ingredients for making it, mixed everything up following the recipe, and place it in a container in the trunk of her car.

Lets say there was absolutely proof that she did all that. Eye witnesses, copies of reciepts, pictures taken, she told friends about it, etc etc So there is no question that she had done all of that. It still would not prove the cholorform had anything what so ever to do with this case.

There is nothing to connect those dots with the evidence as we now know it, and that's why I say the chloroform is a mute point. I could get into the reasons someone might be motivated to obtain chloroform but those are adult topics not in my opinion suitable for this forum.

Now the fact that its not proven that chloroform is connected to this case does not dissolve the other proven evidence. I absolutely agree with your points 3, 4, and 5 because those are things that are both proven and do point to Casey's direct involvement in the death of Caylee.

 

[Atlanta PI]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but has anyone heard confirmation on this detail? (emphasis mine)


<snipped>

Police sources said the skull, covered with cloth and found inside a garbage bag, still had duct tape attached to the mouth.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6464439&page=1


If true, would this detail change anyone's theory as to intent/premeditation ?

OKAAAAY...this doesn't sound right? I thought the skull fell out of the bag when the MR picked it up. Did he put it back? If there was cloth on the skull did she wrap her head up in a sheet or a towel so she wouldn't have to look at her? Was it possibly still on there? This just gets more and more hinkey.

 

[Atlanta PI]

OKAAAAY...this doesn't sound right? I thought the skull fell out of the bag when the MR picked it up. Did he put it back? If there was cloth on the skull did she wrap her head up in a sheet or a towel so she wouldn't have to look at her? Was it possibly still on there? This just gets more and more hinkey.

OMG was the cloth covered with chloroform and tied around her head? First the duct tape to shut her up and then the cloth saturated in chloroform? Sorry I'm probably spellinig that wrong.

 

[Indigo]

OKAAAAY...this doesn't sound right? I thought the skull fell out of the bag when the MR picked it up. Did he put it back? If there was cloth on the skull did she wrap her head up in a sheet or a towel so she wouldn't have to look at her? Was it possibly still on there? This just gets more and more hinkey.

Hi Atlanta PI, I have no idea if the detail was reported correctly. It does bring to mind other reports that said the body had been wrapped in something prior to being placed in the garbage bag. Since the bones were widely strewn, it seems unlikely they were wrapped in anything. Perhaps this "cloth" is what led LE back to the Anthony home to collect bedding.

IMO, it could also explain why LE feels so certain this was no accident.

 

[Atlanta PI]

I think so too. If she had something wrapped around her head in addition to duct tape which is already damning enough, then I can why they are convinced it was intentional. Like you said, it could have been reported incorrectly, but it kind of makes sense...I actually wanted to hurl when I thought about the cloth and all.

 

[Lanie]

I agree, sorta.
Because of KC's personality, I don't think he would have "broken her". I see it more as a case of she would have opened up to him. She is in control.
Isn't it sad that she lawyered up a few days to soon. All that everyone has gone through, and in the end justice will be served anyway. BUT, even had she confided to George, she would probably waited until she was out on bail so as not to tip LE. I'm not confident that he would have done the right thing. No, not confident in George at all.

I don't think Casey really is in control. From what has been said by the people who knew her about her relationships, she seems to morph into whatever she perceives the person she is with wants. It seems more automatic than conscious behavior.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

I don't think Casey really is in control. From what has been said by the people who knew her about her relationships, she seems to morph into whatever she perceives the person she is with wants. It seems more automatic than conscious behavior.
Lanie

And here I am quoting myself. What I posted above contradicts my feeling that Baez tried, at least at first, to get her to go with an accident or something to plea deal. I'm beginning to think I was mistaken about that, and if I am, I hope she isn't able to get an appeal because of incompetent counsel.
Lanie