Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee Pt. 2

[impatientredhead]

I have wondered for some time - IF there was a cloth of some type with duct tape over it and and wrapped several times around Caylee's skull - why would manner of death depend on evidence of choroform?? Would think suffocation would occur whether or not ANY substance was present on a cloth (or anything else)..... MOO.

I think suffocation is exactly what happened, but again just like the chloroform without tissue the ME cannot say definitely that is the cause of death. It would be possible that she suffocated under the tape, choked on her own vomit, was strangled after the application, etc..... Scientifically speaking it does not show cause of death in and of itself.

 

[Indigo]

Congrats Linask. To every rule, there is an .....

Bumping for Wudge and Friends. Didn't want your thread to get buried.

:blowkiss:

 

[Sdavidson11]

:blowkiss: how horrid for you....you do have first hand knowledge of how this may have felt for a baby.....were you able to try to get any of the tape off?

No, the tape had to be eventually cut our of my hair. My hands and feet were bound to a poster bed with duct tape. My husband eventually broke free and cut me loose. Moving over toward one hand I was able to peel the eye tape up and the mouth tape down around my neck. But like I said it had to be cut out of my hair at the hospital.

 

[Boston]

I think this is an obvious case of Premeditated Murder.

The Computer Searches prove that Casey was thinking of ways to kill Caylee & get away with it.

She may have been thinking of "Breaking Caylee's Neck" and then saying that she fell down a flight of stairs or a slide in the park.

She also searched for Poisonous "Household Chemicals" - She may have thought of Poisoning Caylee & then say that she drank the chemicals on an accident.

Then you have the searches for "Missing Children" and That speaks for itself.

This is purely speculation but I'll bet she even thought of drowning Caylee in the pool & she probably planted false stories with her mother such as .."I caught Caylee climbing up the pool ladder today" ...We should be careful. Then she could say that she mistakenly left the ladder by the pool.

Anyway, Casey thought long & hard for the best way to rid herself of Caylee & the evidence is there to prove it.

 

[2goldfish]

No, the tape had to be eventually cut our of my hair. My hands and feet were bound to a poster bed with duct tape. My husband eventually broke free and cut me loose. Moving over toward one hand I was able to peel the eye tape up and the mouth tape down around my neck. But like I said it had to be cut out of my hair at the hospital.

I am so, so sorry.

:grouphug:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Fair enough, kiki. Yet, this thread began with the news that LE claimed "overwhelming evidence" that Casey "intentionally killed" Caylee and was "solely responsible" for her death. What we have as present facts are obviously not overwhelming evidence. I understand that wild speculation leads only to a dead end, and I believe I was careful to state that this was JMO. My apologies if this was offensive to you.

:blowkiss:

Not in the least, no apology necessary! In truth it was not a release (nor even a leak) by LE at all but I think we were all taken in initially by the sensational headlines, "Breaking News," by the "anonomous sources" stating there "really is" "evidence" that KC "really did" murder her child (!?) or that LE had made some startling "developments," somehow "changed their minds." When the Grand Jury indicted KC on murder charges in October, one could only presume they had enough evidence then to back up those charges... And upon closer inspection, sure enough it came to look more like a combination of SA's leveraging (to get KC to crack), coupled with media desperation (to come up w/ any "new" story angles). Nothing new at all really. But no offense taken! JMO

:blowkiss:

I think this is an obvious case of Premeditated Murder.

The Computer Searches prove that Casey was thinking of ways to kill Caylee & get away with it.

She may have been thinking of "Breaking Caylee's Neck" and then saying that she fell down a flight of stairs or a slide in the park.

She also searched for Poisonous "Household Chemicals" - She may have thought of Poisoning Caylee & then say that she drank the chemicals on an accident.

Then you have the searches for "Missing Children" and That speaks for itself.

This is purely speculation but I'll bet she even thought of drowning Caylee in the pool & she probably planted false stories with her mother such as .."I caught Caylee climbing up the pool ladder today" ...We should be careful. Then she could say that she mistakenly left the ladder by the pool.

Anyway, Casey thought long & hard for the best way to rid herself of Caylee & the evidence is there to prove it.

Read the synopsis of this 12 minute, "in-depth" search posted earlier... and if KC had wanted to off Caylee it would have been more credible and far less risky, as you've so rightly pointed out, to stage such an "accident." Look at the sociopaths over the years who've done just that to cover up something coldblooded and premeditated. Yet that isn't what KC claimed, nor is it what appears to be staged. She is evidently willing, rather, to take a needle, if need be, to keep from claiming precisely that... and instead chose to fabricate the wildest, most ridiculously fantastical, incredible and inconsistent story she could ever hope any LE or juror in their right mind to swallow. Why? My theory of course is that she staged this charade, primarily for CA's sake, in a desperate cover-up intended to make it look like a random crime perpetrated by a heinous stranger in order to distance herself, and deflect responsibility, for a real accident--caused by her negligence. Because whatever CSI fixation this girl had (I do too) it does not mean her self-centered preoccupation could not have led to a genuine tragedy--w neither malice nor intent--followed by a foolish, ghoulish cover-up. This is my story and I'm stickin' w/ it. JMO

 

[Devon]

Not in the least, no apology necessary! In truth it was not a release (nor even a leak) by LE at all but I think we were all taken in initially by the sensational headlines, "Breaking News," by the "anonomous sources" stating there "really is" "evidence" that KC "really did" murder her child (!?) or that LE had made some startling "developments," somehow "changed their minds." When the Grand Jury indicted KC on murder charges in October, one could only presume they had enough evidence then to back up those charges... And upon closer inspection, sure enough it came to look more like a combination of SA's leveraging (to get KC to crack), coupled with media desperation (to come up w/ any "new" story angles). Nothing new at all really. But no offense taken! JMO

:blowkiss:



Read the synopsis of this 12 minute, "in-depth" search posted earlier... and if KC had wanted to off Caylee it would have been more credible and far less risky, as you've so rightly pointed out, to stage such an "accident." Look at the sociopaths over the years who've done just that to cover up something coldblooded and premeditated. Yet that isn't what KC claimed, nor is it what appears to be staged. She is evidently willing, rather, to take a needle, if need be, to keep from claiming precisely that... and instead chose to fabricate the wildest, most ridiculously fantastical, incredible and inconsistent story she could ever hope any LE or juror in their right mind to swallow. Why? My theory of course is that she staged this charade, primarily for CA's sake, in a desperate cover-up intended to make it look like a random crime perpetrated by a heinous stranger in order to distance herself, and deflect responsibility, for a real accident--caused by her negligence. Because whatever CSI fixation this girl had (I do too) it does not mean her self-centered preoccupation could not have led to a genuine tragedy--w neither malice nor intent--followed by a foolish, ghoulish cover-up. This is my story and I'm stickin' w/ it. JMO

ITA

By the way, have you signed your copy of our exclusive deal with JB yet kiki?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:bud::bud::bud:

 

[maryaok]

I'm sure this has been batted around before, but say she just left Caley in the car with the sock or the tape or whatever, and she was quiet back there, and say she went into her parent's house for a while, and drank a soda or something, how long would it have taken a two year old to die in that heat? Fice minutes maybe? I think the combination of the heat and the rag killed her. In fact, if she wanted Caylee gone, I'm surprised she didn't jsut think to leave her in the car in the heat. She'd be hated true, but she wouldn't be going to death row certainly. Look at Susan Smith, she let her car be her weapon, surprised Casey didn't just let her die of heat exhaustion in the car and then come back and say, oh! Ooooooops!

 

[essies]

I think this is an obvious case of Premeditated Murder.

The Computer Searches prove that Casey was thinking of ways to kill Caylee & get away with it.

She may have been thinking of "Breaking Caylee's Neck" and then saying that she fell down a flight of stairs or a slide in the park.

She also searched for Poisonous "Household Chemicals" - She may have thought of Poisoning Caylee & then say that she drank the chemicals on an accident.

Then you have the searches for "Missing Children" and That speaks for itself.

This is purely speculation but I'll bet she even thought of drowning Caylee in the pool & she probably planted false stories with her mother such as .."I caught Caylee climbing up the pool ladder today" ...We should be careful. Then she could say that she mistakenly left the ladder by the pool.

Anyway, Casey thought long & hard for the best way to rid herself of Caylee & the evidence is there to prove it.

ITA But, I also think she was including the parental unit in that plan! I think KC wanted to be free of them all-except Lee! If TonE hadn't come along-and she had continued with her plan to move Amy in-I don't think G&C would be here today! I doubt Caylee had life ins.-but I bet C&G did! Maybe KC knew about it and how much!!
Her plan:Get rid of the parents and Caylee, inherit parents life ins, inherit house, move in Amy-maybe others to pay the bills(3-4 bdr house after all), and get "a beautiful life"!:furious:

 

[kiki the parrot]

ITA

By the way, have you signed your copy of our exclusive deal with JB yet kiki?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:bud::bud::bud:

:saythat:


Omg ROFL :floorlaugh:

You betcha (he'll be sending your copy by courier first thing in the am shhh...) :shutup::lipssealed::ziplip:


:viking::viking:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Why why why would she rather make up this whole web of lies then just say it was an accidental drowning and I hid her cause I felt guilty. That would be better than having detectives and police think you intentionally murdered your baby and hid her body.

(bold mine) Bcuz cuz cuz (lol) KC could care less less less (lol) what "detectives and police" think think think (lolol). I've said all along long long (sorry I promise to stop stop stop) it isn't LE but CA from whom KC's lies were intended to hide the truth. And evidently KC feels taking her ZG tales to the grave is better than having CA know her negligence caused the death of Caylee. JMO

arrot:

 

[Lanie]

Here's another thought. If Caylee was alive when the duct tape was wrapped around her head - she should have struggled at the most and moved around at the least. In this moving around if any stray hairs got caught on the sticky side of the tape and pulled out - then LE now have evidence that tape was put on before death and that hair would NOT have the deathband. I think this is highly probable. Any thoughts?

It is my understanding the death band can show up on a deceased person's hair, and finding a death band pretty much means the person that hair came from is dead, however, not all hair from the deceased, if any at all, displays a death band. Hair found on the duct tape without a death band doesn't equal it came from an alive Caylee.
Lanie

 

[Where's Andre]

(bold mine) Bcuz cuz cuz (lol) KC could care less less less (lol) what "detectives and police" think think think (lolol). I've said all along long long (sorry I promise to stop stop stop) it isn't LE but CA from whom KC's lies were intended to hide the truth. And evidently KC feels taking these ZG tales to the grave is better than having CA know her negligence caused the death of Caylee. JMO

arrot:

And drag in on long enough nuf nuf... to really torture her mother mother mother, when she realizes that she's raised such a monster monster monster.

Because hurting and punishing and terrorizing CA was her motive motive motive for killing killing killing in the first place.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It is my understanding the death band can show up on a deceased person's hair, and finding a death band pretty much means the person that hair came from is dead, however, not all hair from the deceased, if any at all, displays a death band. Hair found on the duct tape without a death band doesn't equal it came from an alive Caylee.
Lanie

Possibly - but with Caylee laying in the woods for 6 months I would think all the hair left would have the death band or signs of something. But if a hair WITH THE ROOT was pulled out before death - it would not show this.

IDK - my head hurts today with all the twists and turns.

 

[Lanie]

Possibly - but with Caylee laying in the woods for 6 months I would think all the hair left would have the death band or signs of something. But if a hair WITH THE ROOT was pulled out before death - it would not show this.

IDK - my head hurts today with all the twists and turns.

I'm not sure. I don't know if the root of a hair would be classified as soft tissue. If not, since there was no soft tissue left, I would imagine all the hair found had the roots attached. But again, not every strand of hair plucked from a corpse is going to have a death band on it, so absence of a death band on a hair is not going to prove it came from a live person.
Don't get me wrong, I think the duct tape was applied to Caylee while she was still alive, but I don't know if it was to silence her or part of the actual killing of her. I just don't know what scientific means there is to prove it to a jury.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

(bold mine) Bcuz cuz cuz (lol) KC could care less less less (lol) what "detectives and police" think think think (lolol). I've said all along long long (sorry I promise to stop stop stop) it isn't LE but CA from whom KC's lies were intended to hide the truth. And evidently KC feels taking her ZG tales to the grave is better than having CA know her negligence caused the death of Caylee. JMO

arrot:

Lol. I think Casey wanted Cindy's approval up to a point, but the bottom line for me is Casey lies, and not just a little bit. She also seems to get rewarded for her lies. One instance, she tells her parents she deposited $4000 in their account. Lie. Parents say, "Hey, you faked this deposit slip. Where's the money?" Casey says she was robbed while she was working at Sports Authority. George asks about a police report, Cindy says "Go away, George, I will handle this.", and that seems to be the end of it.
You know, there has been a lot of debate about who Caylee's father is, and if he was actually deceased, why Casey didn't go after benefits. I'm thinking maybe, after she was finally confronted on the pregnancy, she claimed virgin birth. The varying stories about an actual father are just to appease outside family and friends. (Just kidding)
Lanie

 

[CourtsInSession]

Thank you for sharing your opinion and input, I think everyone's point of view is valuable.

I do see some holes in that theory. I'm not an expert on the subject but I have a strong suspicion that since hair does not have blood flowing through it, it's not possible to tell if it was stuck to the hair either pre or postmortem.

The presence of the duct tape whether it was placed there pre or postmortem does not prove intent because COD can not be determined.

I have a difficult time imagining someone planning a murder and thinking, "ah duct tape, perfect". I can however think of a few scenarios where an act of stupidity using duct tape could contribute to someone's death. But we cannot prove that either.

I absolutely agree that if Casey's fingerprints are on the duct tape, we don't know that for sure yet but I have a feeling we soon will, that Casey was either responsible or present when the child's life was lost. Even without fingerprint evidence there is other strong evidence to suggest that to be true.

The thing I have a problem with is the statement they have iron clad evidence that it was intentional. Looking at things logically, which is the only way that I've looked at this case from the beginning, I lack the understanding for how they could have such evidence. Perhaps they do, I've been wrong before, but I'm certainly interested to learn what they have which they consider to be absolute proof.

ETA: I've been thinking about this some more, about what would be absolute evidence. The only thing I could come up with is eye witness. Hmmm

Possibly Casey kept a journal or something detailing what she had done to Caylee. Maybe there was something gathered when LE took all those papers out of the A's home right after Caylee's body was found.

 

[Pink Panther]

Possibly Casey kept a journal or something detailing what she had done to Caylee. Maybe there was something gathered when LE took all those papers out of the A's home right after Caylee's body was found.

Possibly...But between phone calls, text messages, IM's, myspace postings, faking a job and supposedly "taking care" of her daughter...I can't imagine that she could have had the time to keep a journal!

MOO

 

[Indigo]

And drag in on long enough nuf nuf... to really torture her mother mother mother, when she realizes that she's raised such a monster monster monster.

Because hurting and punishing and terrorizing CA was her motive motive motive for killing killing killing in the first place.

ITA that hurting CA was one of Casey's motives for killing Caylee. Casey's disdain for her mother is painfully apparent in the jailhouse videos--she can barely disguise it. I believe the person Casey was most concerned with was Tony. Her texts to him directly after being questioned by police showed desperation. She needed to make sure that Tony forgave her.

Her now infamous call from jail (waste...big waste!) showed that her only concern was Tony. She actually acted like an addict in need of a fix--and her drug of choice was Tony.

 

[jmommy]

I think we all hope Caylee slept through whatever that murderess B word did to her. I'm more doubtful everyday, many times I have closed my eyes and seen an image of KC that I wish would go away.

I'm wondering if the things she put in that bag were pretty close to the list of things she said were at the nanny's house and she thought would be incriminating the nanny when Caylee was found, all based on her word of course.

this case is so sad, and I pray that the suffering of this little girl was quick. However, she had to have suffered some. Chloroform burns like fire when inhaled, from what I've read. Poor little baby. Has anyone heard if the Death Penalty has been reinstated yet?