South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

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Panayiotou

Chetty asks if they are ready to proceed with sentencing.
Price asks for court to stand down to the 30th of November, 1 December.
Price says to consider application for leave to appeal.
Stander says date discussed with him was the 15th of November.
Court adjourned for consultation

It's CP's birthday today. What a birthday present.
 
Interested Bystander said:
Galloway and Desai making HvB look stupid but he seems not to realise - or maybe he is acting.
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I'm glad to hear this.

Just following w words and not watching video so hard to tell reactions of G and Desai but, lordy, how could they not be rolling their eyes?!?

Like others, I believe he has stayed close to the truth in that he has just substitued an attacker for himself...and it's clearly falling apart when he is trying to put himself back in the scenario in a different way...like the attacks make sense because he just substitued "he" for "I" but when he has to bring himself back in, he is describing a movie/fiction fight between himself and someone imaginary and it's so off!!

Geez, I hope the judge isn't buying it...

Thanks so much for the info!!!![emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
chinacat67 said:
I'm glad to hear this.

Just following w words and not watching video so hard to tell reactions of G and Desai but, lordy, how could they not be rolling their eyes?!?

Like others, I believe he has stayed close to the truth in that he has just substitued an attacker for himself...and it's clearly falling apart when he is trying to put himself back in the scenario in a different way...like the attacks make sense because he just substitued "he" for "I" but when he has to bring himself back in, he is describing a movie/fiction fight between himself and someone imaginary and it's so off!!

Geez, I hope the judge isn't buying it...

Thanks so much for the info!!!![emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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I think you are spot on there Chinacat. Even to the height of the intruder which (as you will see from another post of mine) would be unlikely in South Africa. I suppose it is hypothetically possible it could be a big black South African guy but the majority are very small judged by worldwide heights for the male species.
 
Can anyone say whether the way HvB is being treated/spoken to is because of his age? I am amazed at the way G and Desai speak to him. Why would they treat him like a very young teenager - he is a murderer for heaven's sake and in his 20's.
 
Interested Bystander said:
Can anyone say whether the way HvB is being treated/spoken to is because of his age? I am amazed at the way G and Desai speak to him. Why would they treat him like a very young teenager - he is a murderer for heaven's sake and in his 20's.
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Hi IB, Can you give me an example of how they speak to him like a very young teenager? I have not noticed this, and I am curious to see/hear your take on this. Thank you :cool:
 
ApplesInMyBra said:
Hi IB, Can you give me an example of how they speak to him like a very young teenager? I have not noticed this, and I am curious to see/hear your take on this. Thank you :cool:
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Hi Apples, I will go through some of the exchanges and see what I can find but I think it mainly is the use of very simple language and Desai seems to simplify simple questions at times. Maybe I expect him to be spoken to in a more adult fashion. HvB is said to be very bright and when my children were that age we would be using much more sophisticated language. I will see what I can dredge up.
 
ApplesInMyBra said:
Hi IB, Can you give me an example of how they speak to him like a very young teenager? I have not noticed this, and I am curious to see/hear your take on this. Thank you :cool:
Click to expand...

Apples you are right to question me. I saw only a small part of today's hearing and having listened this evening to some of today's recordings, there is nothing in particular that makes me feel they were talking down to him although at times, due to their tone, I felt they were explaining what had been said to him by repeating the question. IMO it was not necessary to qualify what was being said but I have now come to the conclusion that this is the way the lawyers probably speak to defendants to ensure there is complete understanding. On other days I have felt G and Desai have been leading him by qualifying (expanding) various questions when he was perfectly able to understand the original question. Desai, in particular, seems to do this.
 
I think they should have a psychologist in court to assist the state, like they did with Pistorius. That little episode that caused the tea adjournment was so interesting. I could hear him heavy breathing right from when Desai finished questioning him about not being angry, and I wondered what was up. Something pushed his buttons and while it may have been Desai shouting at Botha to sit down, I think it was the question about him not being angry. Did he think it was an attack on his identity? Did he think he'd lost an important point? Whatever, it was such an important insight because something happened to him that he couldn't control. It's like when he instructed Botha to complain about Desai's manner towards Olckers.

This article about narcissistic rage seems very apt. http://narcissisticbehavior.net/what-causes-narcissistic-rage/

If the state could push his buttons a bit more it will become obvious. :trainwreck:
 
I meant to say, I expect him to kick off when he is found guilty. I hope they have some burly guards on standby.
 
Tortoise said:
I think they should have a psychologist in court to assist the state, like they did with Pistorius. That little episode that caused the tea adjournment was so interesting. I could hear him heavy breathing right from when Desai finished questioning him about not being angry, and I wondered what was up. Something pushed his buttons and while it may have been Desai shouting at Botha to sit down, I think it was the question about him not being angry. Did he think it was an attack on his identity? Did he think he'd lost an important point? Whatever, it was such an important insight because something happened to him that he couldn't control. It's like when he instructed Botha to complain about Desai's manner towards Olckers.

This article about narcissistic rage seems very apt. http://narcissisticbehavior.net/what-causes-narcissistic-rage/

If the state could push his buttons a bit more it will become obvious. :trainwreck:
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Yes, that little episode was very enlightening. What a strange boy he is. He displays this superior attitude in court and looks emotionally cold a lot of the time, almost as though it is his alter ego answering the questions. The one about not being angry posed by Desai really disrupted his act.
 
So funny when they did that mock up of the fight. Henri asks Sgt Malan 'could you just move your head so I can hit your shoulder with the axe' :p
 
Interested Bystander said:
Apples you are right to question me. I saw only a small part of today's hearing and having listened this evening to some of today's recordings, there is nothing in particular that makes me feel they were talking down to him although at times, due to their tone, I felt they were explaining what had been said to him by repeating the question. IMO it was not necessary to qualify what was being said but I have now come to the conclusion that this is the way the lawyers probably speak to defendants to ensure there is complete understanding. On other days I have felt G and Desai have been leading him by qualifying (expanding) various questions when he was perfectly able to understand the original question. Desai, in particular, seems to do this.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree on this - they have seemed to be leading him, but perhpas they are just trying to double check what he is saying :thinking: But I am also shocked by how nonchalant and arrogant HvB is, sometimes acting as if he is bored or irritated by what he seems to think are stupid questions!
 
I was quite surprised at Desai losing his temper and shouting so loudly. He is obviously an iron hand in a velvet glove, so quietly spoken until crossed. I wonder if he will regret it. It didn't make pretty viewing. Nonetheless, how good to see bully boy Botha get his comeuppance.
 
Interested Bystander said:
I was quite surprised at Desai losing his temper and shouting so loudly. He is obviously an iron hand in a velvet glove, so quietly spoken until crossed. I wonder if he will regret it. It didn't make pretty viewing. Nonetheless, how good to see bully boy Botha get his comeuppance.
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It seemed that Botha interrupted a flow and an important connection that Desai was in the middle of making. Botha should try being less like a mosquito that keeps humming by your ear at night.
 
Interested Bystander said:
Yes, that little episode was very enlightening. What a strange boy he is. He displays this superior attitude in court and looks emotionally cold a lot of the time, almost as though it is his alter ego answering the questions. The one about not being angry posed by Desai really disrupted his act.
Click to expand...

The moments when I was only listening, I swear HvB sounded like Roger Moore!! Could his alter ego be James Bond?!! :crazy:
 
[video=youtube;NplrULqw8xY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NplrULqw8xY[/video]

For anyone who missed Judge Desai's explosive remarks to Botha's objections at 27:47
 
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