Tortoise
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Sorry, I see that now. I was already imagining her hiding behind a tree with dark glasses on.
South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July 2016
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Tortoise mentioned suicide by hanging naked at 712. There's not much info re this type of female suicide.
In 2008 jaapl attempted to look at the above aspect. They report that Marilyn Monroe was found naked in death, as was Robert Maxwell a British billionaire tycoon. Whether they were really suicide remains a matter of debate to this day in some quarters.
"Conventional wisdom has it that a woman found hanging naked is most likely a homicide or a staged suicide.5 It is thought that “feminine modesty” carries over into a suicidal death. Nonetheless, women do hang themselves or induce asphyxia by other means while naked."
The journal talks about naked deaths in autoerotic asphyxia where some deaths, but not all could be intentional suicide.
Naked Suicide
In 2008 jaapl attempted to look at the above aspect. They report that Marilyn Monroe was found naked in death, as was Robert Maxwell a British billionaire tycoon. Whether they were really suicide remains a matter of debate to this day in some quarters.
"Conventional wisdom has it that a woman found hanging naked is most likely a homicide or a staged suicide.5 It is thought that “feminine modesty” carries over into a suicidal death. Nonetheless, women do hang themselves or induce asphyxia by other means while naked."
The journal talks about naked deaths in autoerotic asphyxia where some deaths, but not all could be intentional suicide.
Naked Suicide
JudgeJudi
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Nick van der Leek makes a very good observation:
Glad Dr Peter has clued us into all these medications. Many, many sedatives, sleeping pills etc. Wouldn't the obvious way to commit suicide be to simply overdose on prescription medication? It would be painless, & what's more, having used the meds, she knew what to expect?
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
Exactly. Why on earth would you subject yourself to hanging when you could simply go to sleep.
He's included this link:
Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the “European Alliance Against Depression”
which includes the following:
From the above, it can be seen that women far outnumber men when it comes to overdosing.
"Hanging was the most prevalent suicide method among both males (54.3%) and females (35.6%).
Glad Dr Peter has clued us into all these medications. Many, many sedatives, sleeping pills etc. Wouldn't the obvious way to commit suicide be to simply overdose on prescription medication? It would be painless, & what's more, having used the meds, she knew what to expect?
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
Exactly. Why on earth would you subject yourself to hanging when you could simply go to sleep.
He's included this link:
Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the “European Alliance Against Depression”
which includes the following:
From the above, it can be seen that women far outnumber men when it comes to overdosing.
"Hanging was the most prevalent suicide method among both males (54.3%) and females (35.6%).
JudgeJudi
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A selection of tweets:
This wasn't a distant affair. #Rohde's wife was trying to keep him on a leash, and so, anything he did, he knew could push her buttons. Probably, initially, she tried to avoid pushing them. Perhaps later, he intended to push them as much as he could? The latter, is sadistic.
"Mr #Rohde indicated, not spontaneously, but only when directly asked, that Mrs Rohde had threatened suicide previously, but he had not thought it possible that she would kill herself as she loved her children."
Again, why the "never in a million years did I think" testimony?
"Mr #Rohde had said that his wife said, that she felt dead inside, and that she felt like dying, and that she was going to jump out of the window of their bathroom." But it's only Jason #Rohde who provides this crucial testimony. Credible? Convenient?
"He explained that it was just more of her ranting, and he ignored it." I'm not sure that's true. It's important to say that now, of course. I think at the time, he was *very* receptive to her decline, and perhaps eager to record instances of it, especially from her phone.
"The WhatsApp messages of Mrs #Rohde showed that she wrote of wanting to die..." And Rohde was careful to keep those, ne?
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
This wasn't a distant affair. #Rohde's wife was trying to keep him on a leash, and so, anything he did, he knew could push her buttons. Probably, initially, she tried to avoid pushing them. Perhaps later, he intended to push them as much as he could? The latter, is sadistic.
"Mr #Rohde indicated, not spontaneously, but only when directly asked, that Mrs Rohde had threatened suicide previously, but he had not thought it possible that she would kill herself as she loved her children."
Again, why the "never in a million years did I think" testimony?
"Mr #Rohde had said that his wife said, that she felt dead inside, and that she felt like dying, and that she was going to jump out of the window of their bathroom." But it's only Jason #Rohde who provides this crucial testimony. Credible? Convenient?
"He explained that it was just more of her ranting, and he ignored it." I'm not sure that's true. It's important to say that now, of course. I think at the time, he was *very* receptive to her decline, and perhaps eager to record instances of it, especially from her phone.
"The WhatsApp messages of Mrs #Rohde showed that she wrote of wanting to die..." And Rohde was careful to keep those, ne?
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
JudgeJudi
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But then we have this:
Judge jumps in now. "The impression that I got, was that Susan was very much in control and that it was a far more positive call with her psychologist than what you are setting out here." This concession is good news for the prosecutor.
Judge Salie-Hlophe adds: "I mean, she informed her psychologist that she shook Jolene's hand. And said I hope I never have to meet you again. And the psychologist responds: 'Well, did that make you feel good?' It comes across as if Susan's feeling positive."
"What you are relaying here seems to be very negative." Dr Peter chuckles about not wanting to disagree with the court. Judge reasserts her position: "But the conclusion of that telephone call placed Susan up in her confidence. That's not reflected in your report." Oopsie.
"If I read your narration, it's really..it gives a very sad picture of Mrs #Rohde..." Dr Peter doesn't respond. The Judge pushes her hand towards the expert, tells her to "Carry on, you don't have to comment." Van der Spuy jumps up, says they can return to this point later. Wow.
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
Judge jumps in now. "The impression that I got, was that Susan was very much in control and that it was a far more positive call with her psychologist than what you are setting out here." This concession is good news for the prosecutor.
Judge Salie-Hlophe adds: "I mean, she informed her psychologist that she shook Jolene's hand. And said I hope I never have to meet you again. And the psychologist responds: 'Well, did that make you feel good?' It comes across as if Susan's feeling positive."
"What you are relaying here seems to be very negative." Dr Peter chuckles about not wanting to disagree with the court. Judge reasserts her position: "But the conclusion of that telephone call placed Susan up in her confidence. That's not reflected in your report." Oopsie.
"If I read your narration, it's really..it gives a very sad picture of Mrs #Rohde..." Dr Peter doesn't respond. The Judge pushes her hand towards the expert, tells her to "Carry on, you don't have to comment." Van der Spuy jumps up, says they can return to this point later. Wow.
Nick van der Leek (@HiRezLife) | Twitter
JudgeJudi
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This psychiatrist reminds me very much of Dr Butler, the neurologist in the HvB case. He saw Henri for the first time 18 months after the murders and made a diagnosis based on tests he carried out, but at least he did see him.
This doctor never saw Susan and is basing all her testimony on what was said by people in a list provided by the Defence.
It's absolutely clear that the Judge thinks Peters has gone way too far.
It's incredibly sad to think that the daughters have bought their father's story hook, line and sinker. Poor Susan. It's heartbreaking what has happened. The Defence even mentioned the Botox. Her husband was having an affair with a woman 12 years younger, and in effect Susan's being blamed for trying to look her best for him. The Defence is blaming it on narcissism. It's just disgusting.
This doctor never saw Susan and is basing all her testimony on what was said by people in a list provided by the Defence.
It's absolutely clear that the Judge thinks Peters has gone way too far.
It's incredibly sad to think that the daughters have bought their father's story hook, line and sinker. Poor Susan. It's heartbreaking what has happened. The Defence even mentioned the Botox. Her husband was having an affair with a woman 12 years younger, and in effect Susan's being blamed for trying to look her best for him. The Defence is blaming it on narcissism. It's just disgusting.
Tortoise
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She would be more credible if she balanced it with some observations that didn't work in the defence's favour, as the judge has pointed out.
JudgeJudi
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Panieri-Peter said, "What she really wanted to achieve that weekend was that everyone would see that she and her husband were together, that she would prove to herself that she had won over the mistress [Jolene Alterskye]".
I have a totally different view. Peter’s statement that “everyone would see that she and her husband were together” presupposes that it was common knowledge within the company that “everyone” knew the marriage was rocky and/or because of the affair.
JR had admitted to Susan that he had lied to her and been unfaithful. It was from that time onwards that she became obsessed with checking his phone, asking him where he’d been and keeping a diary. The function at Spier did not include spouses, but Susan knew that Jolene would be there and she didn’t trust him at all. By attending Spier, she could at least eliminate the possibility of them getting together that night.
I have a totally different view. Peter’s statement that “everyone would see that she and her husband were together” presupposes that it was common knowledge within the company that “everyone” knew the marriage was rocky and/or because of the affair.
JR had admitted to Susan that he had lied to her and been unfaithful. It was from that time onwards that she became obsessed with checking his phone, asking him where he’d been and keeping a diary. The function at Spier did not include spouses, but Susan knew that Jolene would be there and she didn’t trust him at all. By attending Spier, she could at least eliminate the possibility of them getting together that night.
tmar
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I really disliked Perumal.
He kept sprouting 'what a great guy he was, so ethical etc'.
If that was the case, he would not need to tell us several times.
However here, he appeared to be liked, so I just lurked along.
Now Peters. YUK.
Hope our slow Prosecutor brings these folks down to size, BUT....
He kept sprouting 'what a great guy he was, so ethical etc'.
If that was the case, he would not need to tell us several times.
However here, he appeared to be liked, so I just lurked along.
Now Peters. YUK.
Hope our slow Prosecutor brings these folks down to size, BUT....
L2L
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I really disliked Perumal.
He kept sprouting 'what a great guy he was, so ethical etc'.
If that was the case, he would not need to tell us several times.
However here, he appeared to be liked, so I just lurked along.
Now Peters. YUK.
Hope our slow Prosecutor brings these folks down to size, BUT....
Felt the same as you, tmar!
tmar
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Great L2L.
I picked up, right from the start, he was not an expert in Histopathology.
OK, he probably had others perhaps, Experts, giving out info in this field, yet he never stated this!!!
He was the smart one, and would never run down anyone.
Yep, he has Credentials but let us hope, our Guy's findings were more substantial.
Jennifer17
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I think it is an awful shame that professionals seem to be able to be bought now. I do not mean bribed, just bought with the exaggerated fees that their 'opinion' will bring them.
L2L
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Could someone please find out what brand of lipstick Judge Gayaat Salie-Samuels Hlophe wears? Perfectly applied, never smudges or shows wear & tear even after hours in court. Driving me nuts & difficult to concentrate on anything else until I know!
JudgeJudi
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I really disliked Perumal.
He kept sprouting 'what a great guy he was, so ethical etc'.
If that was the case, he would not need to tell us several times.
However here, he appeared to be liked, so I just lurked along.
It’s hard to be objective when you don’t like someone. Perumal is a consummate professional and has far and away more experience than Khan. Khan has performed 2,900 autopsies which include +- 100 hangings. Perumal has performed over 10,000 autopsies including several hundred hangings.
Perumal was originally the Defence pathologist in the OP trial and was present when the State pathologist conducted the post mortem. It was a huge blow to the Defence when he said that he wouldn’t testify and they had to find someone else. It was widely reported at the time that the reason he chose not to testify was because he agreed with all the major findings of the State pathologist.
I frequently don't like defence expert witnesses but don't dismiss their testimony for that reason.
JudgeJudi
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VDS said it's not like Susan to stop fighting and get into bed. Jason replied, "We had this major row for the last while. I was absolutely exhausted. It wasn't a case of allowing me to sleep. I went to sleep." "It had been an emotional evening". She caught me back with my mistress. It had to end some time of the night. She also had to sleep."
Susan’s brother said that Susan never gave up and was a fighter and Susan’s daughter said her mother liked to have the last word. We know that Susan got very little sleep on a regular basis and had been prescribed medication. Even Peters said she didn't sleep for very long. Why on this night of all nights, after a very heated argument and having returned to their the bedroom circa 3:00am, would Susan go to sleep. I find that very hard to believe.
Susan’s brother said that Susan never gave up and was a fighter and Susan’s daughter said her mother liked to have the last word. We know that Susan got very little sleep on a regular basis and had been prescribed medication. Even Peters said she didn't sleep for very long. Why on this night of all nights, after a very heated argument and having returned to their the bedroom circa 3:00am, would Susan go to sleep. I find that very hard to believe.
JudgeJudi
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Forensic psychiatrist, Dr Larissa Panieri-Peter, to continue testifying for the defence today.
Judge Salie-Hlophe mentions that PP's report was not given to her to peruse before she testifies. "I have during various stages raised my concerns". She has finished report and heard objections by State and wish to make a ruling.
Salie-Hlophe: Indeed the report is objectionable in many respects. Have repeatedly expressed concerns and reservations during her testimony. Her report repeats evidence already placed before court and goes far beyond scope, expertise and role of witness.
Salie-Hlophe: In fact, it went about to use the function and role of court, whose role it is to determine whether Susan's death was a suicide or homicide. No court acting reasonably would abdicate this responsibility.
Report also makes mention of anonymous persons and evidence already before court. This report and expert testimony of PP is no more than regurgitating testimonies already placed before this court.
Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter
Judge Salie-Hlophe mentions that PP's report was not given to her to peruse before she testifies. "I have during various stages raised my concerns". She has finished report and heard objections by State and wish to make a ruling.
Salie-Hlophe: Indeed the report is objectionable in many respects. Have repeatedly expressed concerns and reservations during her testimony. Her report repeats evidence already placed before court and goes far beyond scope, expertise and role of witness.
Salie-Hlophe: In fact, it went about to use the function and role of court, whose role it is to determine whether Susan's death was a suicide or homicide. No court acting reasonably would abdicate this responsibility.
Report also makes mention of anonymous persons and evidence already before court. This report and expert testimony of PP is no more than regurgitating testimonies already placed before this court.
Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter
JudgeJudi
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Salie-Hlophe: It also alleges facts that she claims were given to her by aforesaid witnesses but which was not put to them during their evidence. [Hearsay]
Salie-Hlophe: Simply put, I perceive that this evidence and report by this witness is nothing more than an attempt by the defence to get a second bite at the cherry. Further examination is not allowed and accordingly this witness would be excused.
Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter
Salie-Hlophe: Simply put, I perceive that this evidence and report by this witness is nothing more than an attempt by the defence to get a second bite at the cherry. Further examination is not allowed and accordingly this witness would be excused.
Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter
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